00:00:10,440	S1:
Welcome to Bismarck Insights with mayor Mike Schmitz, a transparent and engaging conversational dive into meaningful topics impacting local government and Bismarck, North Dakota Bismarck Insights is dedicated to removing barriers between the city of Bismarck and the citizens we serve every day.

00:00:30,320	S2:
Welcome to Bismarck Insights with myself, mayor Mike Schmitz. And today we have with us Janelle Combs, who is our legal department director. And Janelle, welcome. Thank you for joining me. Why don't you give me a little bit about what brought you to the city? Your career didn't start at the city.

00:00:50,360	So what? What caused you to want to come and join the city? S3:
Sure. So I'm just a class B farm kid. Grew up in North Dakota and got my degrees at Ndsu and Und I. After a year with a trial judge, I was the Moorhead and Dilworth City prosecutor. So I did city work in Minnesota, and then I, I had various firms I was with that helped meld both criminal prosecution, city representation, real estate, corporate law, lots of different areas, including a 200 attorney firm out of Minneapolis where we opened the branch here in Bismarck. So all of those things kind of led to when I saw this opening in 2018, and my kids were now all in school then I was interested to apply because I think the help for people at the local level is where it has the most impact. And I've got a call to service.

00:01:43,750	S2:
Sure. And by having kind of that prosecution side to start with and then being in private practice, it brings some balance for you to kind of see both sides of the the issues at times, correct?

00:01:55,190	S3:
Yes, yes, yes, I did some government work. I worked at the Supreme Court as well, and I helped the Dot during the boom with their contracts. So I had a little bit more of of the civil side too. But I think that's probably unique in a lot of the directors in government in North Dakota. I do have that private business experience, which is very varied, including oil and gas and probate and all sorts of areas.

00:02:23,930	S2:
Which can help us as we construct ordinances to make sure we're balanced in that approach and not purely legalistic. Like this is the rule. And knowing that there might be a ramification on the other side that we need to be ready for.

00:02:38,130	S3:
Yes, representing the other side with business, with governments throughout North Dakota and Minnesota and at the federal level, that's really provided an opportunity to see things in perhaps a little more balanced way.

00:02:50,530	S2:
Sure. So let's talk about the department itself. It's relatively small. It is. We have, what, six full time employees? Yes. Including yourself? Yes.

00:03:07,240	So what is the role of the legal department and then particularly your role? S3:
So we have about two thirds of our our department is focused on criminal prosecution. So that part is focused primarily on things like DUIs and speeding, shoplifting that can affect local businesses and thefts that affect local folks, as well as giving advice to our police department as needed. So with those that focus, we all kind of help out in that when needed, because those are constitutional rights. The other half is a civil side, which includes attending board meetings. We review every contract the city signs, and we're also the chief risk officer for the city. So I primarily focus on that civil side, but I still get to prosecute every so often.

00:03:56,070	S2:
And how many prosecutors do we have? Two. Two. And they're the ones that deal with those individuals who have a little had a little trouble, potentially gotten into trouble and support the police department and so on. Correct.

00:04:10,510	S3:
Yes, they do that and some sometimes it's not just, you know, folks who've done something. I mean, I guess they have done something wrong. But speeding tickets and different things. We also deal with junk yard violations and animal issues when there's a dog at large. So all of those things are part of what we do on the criminal side.

00:04:32,270	S2:
Okay. And on the civil side, you know, I know from my short experience that we we have issues come up where citizens have problems and they they feel they need to be addressed. So, like, what types of issues do we have to deal with that ultimately help the citizens at least recover? Maybe some losses.

00:04:52,130	S3:
Yes. So we have all of the claims for the city come through our office, and that's whether it's city property that we are trying to recover with an insurance company. And also if a citizen has had damage that is due to the city employees or a vehicle accident or something. We have a claim form on my department's website and we handle that. In addition, we have the sewer backup fund, which everyone pays into on our utility fee every month, and that fund is for any damage that may occur to a homeowner. If there's a backup in the sewage line from the main to their home.

00:05:35,850	S2:
And do the citizens contact you or do they contact water and sewer? How does that process start?

00:05:43,610	S3:
Well, they a lot of times water. You need to let water and sewer know because it's probably an emergency that you're wondering where it's coming from. So they're the emergency one that they would have originally contact and deal with. And sometimes it may be a water main break. So it's a different issue. So those guys in the public works department utilities will know if it's water or sewer backup. And then after kind of the emergency part of it is done, then they can contact our office or fill out that form right online. They don't have to print it or sign it or come in. Just fill it out, press send and it comes to our office.

00:06:22,120	S2:
Sure. And it's obvious, you know, we as if we're the city as the responsible party. We don't want our citizens out money. And that's the purpose of that. And certainly we have to mitigate whatever those situations are.

00:06:32,960	S3:
Well, and and because we only owe from we only own up to the main it's the homeowner's responsibility up to their home. But a lot of insurance companies will not provide that coverage, or it's quite a bit for people if we administer this fund and you have a small fee every month, that tends to be a better recovery and more cost effective for our citizens.

00:06:55,470	S2:
And so I want that to get out there, because I don't know that everybody knows that we we kind of have this sort of self-insurance fund to help them. The other thing, civilly or not really, it's on the civil side, but you handle and make sure we are following all the procedures appropriately when bid openings occur. And that becomes quite a task at times, I would imagine.

00:07:17,710	S3:
Well, we think that it's a really good bang for your buck because it's usually less than 5 to 10 minutes of attorney time. But there has been a lot of litigation in North Dakota with errors in bid openings. So we can answer those questions for the most part right away when it's happening. And that's better for the contractors to know. We don't get information out if the bid should have been rejected and we still open the bid envelope, that prejudice is that contractor on future bids. So you know we can protect the contractor and hopefully also mitigate risk for that five minutes that just takes for me to walk across the hall and, and open and review those big bids. Okay.

00:08:01,130	S2:
What is what is your role related to the fact that we have roughly 600 employees for the city of Bismarck? I mean, do you have to get involved with a human resource related issues?

00:08:12,370	S3:
Yes, mayor, I think that's probably a big portion of our time. I would say we are one of the few city attorney departments in North Dakota that are in-house, which means we are city employees. A lot of the other larger cities have contract attorneys, and their their attorney budgets are so much more than ours are. And part of what I think helps us is because we are there when the incident is happening. Department directors may not be as willing to call their attorney if they have to pay by the hour.

00:08:48,200	S2:
Sure.

00:08:48,840	S3:
So we hear things because we're at the city all day. We know and we try to to kind of stave off those problems before they get too big.

00:08:57,640	S2:
And that's whether it's with an employee to employee relationship or even external, I would guess. Right. If we have issues, maybe a citizen has had a concern. Are you're involved in that also.

00:09:13,440	S3:
So that process depending upon what the concern is, you know, we have we have kind of an internal process. Of course. Police department is probably one of the entities that is most interacting with our citizens on a daily basis. So they do have a citizens complaint process through the police department. If there's something unusual, we will be brought in. Sometimes if if a citizen calls and is having issues with another department, We get involved because the buck stops in our office as far as we're concerned. So we will try and get you to the right person if we if we can help you to get it resolved.

00:09:54,750	S2:
In addition to all of that, then on the human relations standpoint or resources standpoint, our employees have rights. Yes.

00:10:09,310	Um, and why don't you talk about what those rights might be is how they're protected in employment practices? S3:
Sure. So, of course, there's some North Dakota and federal protections against discrimination. And everything that every employee is, is dealt with. There are also some very specific federal provisions for government employees and for large employers, over 50 employees. So, you know, just from a corporate standpoint, that's something familiar from my private practice. We also have civil service, which is not that we keep anybody we hire, but that they are entitled to certain due process. So a process where everybody can say their piece and if information is changed, that's relevant, decisions can be changed.

00:10:52,370	S2:
That civil service committee or commission is not made up of employees, is it?

00:10:57,610	S3:
No. It is made up of human resource professionals. And our chair has a tremendous amount of human resources experience. And the other two who run it also have, I think, decades each of human resources experience. But they are separate. They're not city employees at all.

00:11:15,930	S2:
Right. So volunteer of of of our citizens. And so we get an independent look as what we're hoping for to to make sure we're treating our, our teammates well or fairly anyway. Yes. Are there other things that, you know, come up that from a legal protection standpoint for the city that that To you get involved in, you know, whether it's at the airport or, you know. Uh, I don't know, building issue, whatever it could be.

00:11:47,400	S3:
Yes. So we can be impacted. I mean, there's risk in almost anything, but also there's a lot of regulations, and it seems like state and federal governments just keep piling on regulations for us, which sometimes come with a funding and sometimes don't. But I was very familiar with EPA's regulations when I did oil and gas work and how heavily involved they are. And so, you know, I have that experience and we deal with that with landfill. Of course, you can have leachate that comes out. And, you know, we have certain processes to make sure that doesn't happen. We have the airport is heavily regulated both for the FAA and TSA security, but also for for funding that they receive from the state and federal governments, which is necessary for flight operations. So they have huge amounts of regulations there. And then of course, also water and wastewater are also highly regulated for obvious reasons from the EPA as well.

00:12:47,510	S2:
Great. And you're helping keep all those departments hopefully in check with those.

00:12:53,030	S3:
We try to keep up on all of those. We're a very small department and those regulations are not the most user friendly ones typically.

00:13:00,070	S2:
So tell me a little bit of how the interaction is with the commission which I sit on you. What's your role with us.

00:13:06,390	S3:
So we are there. We my office attends every meeting that we have. With the exclusion of some really quick special meetings that aren't needed. But we will provide any type of assistance. Uh, you know, we're kind of like a parliamentarian to help if there are issues regarding Robert's Rules of Order or Century Code for how we do the meetings or motions, we are there also to try to provide information if there are legal issues that come up. And our office, except for zoning ordinances, drafts, all the ordinance changes that we would have for the the code of ordinances. So we prepare all of those and any, any contracts as well, have to go through our office.

00:13:54,490	S2:
And then sometimes we have to go into executive session. And that's probably when we're involving you. Right.

00:14:01,810	S3:
Yes. Well we make sure that that's set up. You know, there's been open meetings and open records violations throughout the state. And we strive to really try to never do those and those open meeting ones. The biggest risk has been executive session. So we work with administration to make sure we've got it noticed properly, recorded properly, and it's the correct topic for it. And we make sure we stay on topic while in the executive session.

00:14:30,570	S2:
Perfect. And that's and I know I've appreciated that. And I know I've appreciated when I've been able to, you know, look over and say, okay, Janelle, what do we need to do here? Yes. Are we proceeding down the right way? Um, because, you know, we get caught up in our conversation at the table, and sometimes you slip.

00:14:49,040	S3:
Yeah. And I'm not there for policy, but I am there to help make sure the process is protected. And if there are appeals of your meetings, I also protect the record because I would have to defend that. So it's extremely critical. And it helps to have like DMA that they provide that type of of recording so that in the future we're able to even have that as a great record too.

00:15:13,120	S2:
So one of the areas that isn't directly in your bucket, I guess, but certainly is related, is municipal court. Yes.

00:15:26,920	What's the structure there? And and how does that work and how do you interact with municipal court? S3:
So we've got the separate branches of government, just like you do at the state and federal level. So they are our judiciary. It is a much quicker process with municipal court than if you're going through district court, and that's kind of the purpose. It's more informal and we can get through cases much more quickly. So people have their their issues resolved that are smaller issues. So Judge Chevron has been doing that for decades and is a very experienced judge. He really, I think, has the experience to give balanced sentencing. There are times he doesn't go with what our recommendation is. There's times he does, but he's also willing to give people breaks. But he wants to hold people accountable, especially when they have repeatedly violated law. And sometimes I think we find he may be a stronger sentencing authority than some of our district court judges.

00:16:27,190	S2:
Really? And what would drive that, do you think? Just.

00:16:31,250	S3:
Well, I think that, you know, the city does pay for our jail bill for when people are put in jail. And I know that there's been a push to try to from the Department of Corrections at the state level to be careful about that type of sentencing. But you're more likely to see those repeat offenders have some type of accountability. If you have a stronger penalty every single time that they violate. And I think it's just a sentencing philosophy. And perhaps from the state level down, they've been encouraged to try to be more, um, less less willing to put people in jail for things they may consider not as serious as our as child abuse and drugs, which are very serious, but someone who's had felony DUIs repeatedly. I mean, there's got to be some sort of consequence.

00:17:32,520	S2:
So where is the cutoff as to what goes to municipal court versus goes up to district court through the county?

00:17:38,480	S3:
Yes. So we have first there has to be an ordinance. If there's a Bismarck ordinance, then that's able to come into municipal court. That's where we start at. And we have a jurisdictional limit of class B misdemeanors. So we have those plus infractions. So infractions are like a speeding ticket. And class B misdemeanors are like a first time DUI okay. And that has a penalty of up to 30 days and or a $1,500 fine.

00:18:07,280	S2:
And so those offenses stay in the municipal court unless there's some.

00:18:11,600	S3:
Unless they're appealed up to district. They always have the right to remove up to district.

00:18:15,760	S2:
Which then gives them an opportunity for a jury trial, I suppose, versus.

00:18:19,680	S3:
In some cases, speeding tickets and such are our administrative traffic. So those are always by a judge. But yes, any of those class B misdemeanors and some of our infractions are part of that. They could have a jury trial.

00:18:33,910	S2:
A municipal court, no jury trial. Correct.

00:18:36,990	S3:
We do not have authority for that.

00:18:38,390	S2:
And the relationship with our between your office and municipal court is good.

00:18:44,070	S3:
I would hope so. Um, I mean, I think our, you know, our prosecutors are over in the courtroom. Um, whenever court is in session. So they are very aware of that and, and see the same people all the time. We also do provide. I mean, if there's a it's not going to be the prosecutors, but our office assists with any contracts they need to have signed and provide those legal services for them. Um, there's very few they have. But we help that process and we work together to try to find efficiencies. When we've worked with audio upgrades, video upgrades, different things to save Citizens money and staff time. We will provide those resources freely.

00:19:27,050	S2:
Okay. And you're kind of the link between the police department and the municipal court when it comes to the prosecution of those cases and or settlement of them, I guess.

00:19:35,770	S3:
Correct, yes. All those flow from police up to us and then to municipal court is kind of the the levels of discretion at each point. And the police department also gets to know municipal court well if they're testifying, because we'll have trials every week pretty much. So you'll see a lot of the traffic officers in there and patrol officers giving testimony.

00:19:58,570	S2:
And we don't own the court building. We lease it from Burleigh County, which we're appreciative of their space. And so just so people don't realize that that's that's just the relationship.

00:20:08,930	S3:
Well, in state court and district court are greatly appreciative because we are willing to share resources in that little courtroom. One, they're stacked up.

00:20:17,290	S2:
Sure. Um.

00:20:20,880	S2:
I got to refresh my memory a moment here. Let's talk about risk management. That's a big part of your job.

00:20:28,920	S3:
It is. It's exciting too. It's kind of like talking about actuarial numbers. So, uh, yeah, risk management is trying to look for potential problems and mitigate them before they happen. That will save typically time and money as well as often problems for citizens or our employees.

00:20:49,840	S2:
And so when you're when we have to manage our risk, what are the things that you notice that we've had to maybe make changes to over the last several years to enhance that?

00:21:02,280	S3:
Sure. So I can talk, for instance, about the safety committee, which they've really tried to bolster as we've gone on, and we've got it in some departments very specific, like public works. They're out with the garbage collection. And, you know, there's a lot of risk there just on an employment standpoint, but any time that there is an incident, we have forms we have to fill out. We've revised those several times. Sometimes we think an employee may have a substance in them that form. First of all, we do the training. Last year, Detective Stein from the police department and I did the reasonable suspicion training for supervisors to see if maybe there's someone under the influence. And we reformatted that form to help those those supervisors have an idea of what they need to look for.

00:21:56,390	S2:
Do we get involved in the risk management around equipment, and maybe how we make sure we properly insure buildings and and that all falls to you as well?

00:22:07,830	S3:
Yes. So insurance is administered through our office, both the claims and the premiums and obtaining the insurance. We're lucky in North Dakota we have the North Dakota Insurance Reserve Fund, which is like a pooled insurance for political subdivisions. And we just finished up our liability, which is is a huge application as well as cybersecurity. And now we're going through their fire and tornado fund for all our buildings. And anytime a new building comes on or we've got a new vehicle or an old vehicle, we hold those titles. We deal with the title process, we insure them when requested from the appropriate departments. We will review and try to make sure we're making prudent decisions based on what they tell us the values are, and then we also handle those claims. Even if they are sent to the insurance company, we will monitor them. If there is actual litigation, then I will come on and be the monitor for and kind of the liaison for the city on any of the the representation there.

00:23:10,650	S2:
Okay. One of the soft I think risks that we have. I'll call it soft, but it's a very large risk. And it's an information technology in cybersecurity. So how do you help that department try to manage that. Because that's not necessarily even insurable. Always right.

00:23:31,680	How do we how do you work with them to guide them to try to mitigate that risk? S3:
Sure. So we have uh, first of all, we have the ITG, which is a general committee in the city of certain directors and staff members. And we look at projects and we make sure, first of all, that we're not unduly getting new programs that maybe, uh, wouldn't work with other departments and other programs and also help it say no sometimes so that they know that cybersecurity is a critical thing. So we deal with that our contracts as well. We make sure that there's provisions in there for our contractors that will follow what is appropriate for our protection. And then we have some, for instance, external contracts. We provided IT services for Burleigh County because that's the most cost effective way to do it than outside sources. And, um, drafting that contract. So everyone agrees and follows the rules as well.

00:24:33,390	S2:
Certainly a lot of policy and procedure related around what we can and cannot do or should or should not do. Yeah, it helps improve that, that risk or reduce that risk. So you probably get a bunch of calls occasionally trying to get legal advice from citizens.

00:24:53,070	Any examples of what you've had to go through to try to help people? S3:
Well, I think that we've had a lot of different calls that we have. Sometimes we can help people, sometimes we can't. Sometimes it is a matter of referring them to a different agency. But we've had a lot of unusual calls. I've had people call who have asked about outlawing a certain tree that produces red berries because the birds will eat it, and then red droppings happen on their car and they didn't like that. Um, Prairie. Uh, Richardson's ground squirrels are a huge topic. Every year I learned more than I wanted to about those, but there was kind of a gap of who was responsible. So we filled in and, um, we added some protection for citizens. But it's difficult. They are they're also known as flicker tails. And we are the flicker tail state. So they have been here long before we have. And as you have development and you've got those big vacant lots in the middle of urbanized areas, that's just their sort of thing. And they pop up all over. And I know they're irritating and, you know, it's very difficult. But, um, the commission has to decide how much between the balance between private property rights and the cost, how to handle those things. And we'll assist in whatever way the commission directs.

00:26:21,320	S2:
Well, I know it's appreciated to the extent you can. It certainly is appreciated from the citizens, the commission standpoint.

00:26:34,040	Um, lastly, what do you see some challenges that we might be facing as we go into the next decade? S3:
So I think the city is kind of in that cusp of where really is we're a larger organization now. So as the city gets larger and we have more police officers, more firemen, more people, um, you know, we have challenges from the way we've always done things to the way we do things now. And that also includes a more diverse makeup of our community, different challenges that happen and that needs, you know, I think that's just growing pains that happen. But the alternative is our city dies, starts to die, which is not healthy. Regulations are a huge issue. The EPA in particular and the federal government have at different times just put in really difficult regulations that might work in Flint, Michigan, but they don't make sense in Bismarck, North Dakota. The state has tried to mitigate some of those where they can, but, um, keeping abreast of those complex regulations, there's a cost to it of of keeping abreast, but also following them, whether it's chemicals or reporting.

00:27:38,950	S2:
It's just the navigation of that as we go into the future, which is only probably going to become more and more, uh, onerous, potentially, especially for our departments. Yes. So. Well, Janelle, thank you for joining me today on Bismarck Insights with myself, mayor Mike Schmitz. And it was a pleasure visiting with you.

00:27:57,830	S4:
Thank you.

00:28:10,770	S1:
Thank you for watching Bismarck Insights with mayor Mike Schmitz. If you have specific topics or questions you'd like addressed in future episodes. Email Mayor Schmitz at Bismarck and Gov. Or call the City of Bismarck at (701) 355-1300.

00:28:28,730	S1:
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