00:00:12,670	This is, uh, April 24th Wednesday April 24th. I’d like to welcome everyone here in the tom Baker meeting room and those on online as well as Condi. Commissioners and staff present to this meeting of the Bismarck Planning and Zoning Commission, And with that I’m gonna call the meeting to order Sarah, Would you please call

00:00:31,070	roll. Comm. Bittner here. Comm. field here, Comm. johnson. Comm. Larson, Comm. Lukins. Here. Here, mayor Schmitz. Here. Comm.. I’m Sorry. Civic here. Did I say that right Got it. Comm. wangen. Comm. zent and Chair Schwartz here.

00:01:09,670	Thank you with that we’re gonna move on to the first item in our our, uh Agenda this evening, and it’s to welcome a new Comm. to our table and it is a Comm.. Sheldon Sivak. Thank you for, uh, for, uh, verifying that, um, with that, uh, Comm. Sivak. Would you like to introduce yourself and tell us something about yourself this evening, sheldon Sac. I just live east of Bismarck.

00:01:32,330	Uh, Reason I’m here kind is cause we did some planning. We redid the planning zoning, So. I went through the whole process so kind of familiar with it, but I like to learn more about it, so Try it out. Very good. Well, welcome again and and Comm. Sivak will be representing.

00:01:52,230	Uh uh, ETA interests on the board, as are other salt. Thank you with that? We’re gonna move on to the second item on our agenda this evening, which is consideration of the approval of the minutes for our march 27th meeting commissioners. What are your wishes motion to approve? We have a motion to approve from the Comm. zent. We have a second from Comm. Bittner.

00:02:13,200	Any discussion? Seeing. None. Sarah, Would you please call roll? Comm. Bittner. Yes. Comm. field? Yes. Comm. Johnson? Yes. Comm. Larson? Yes, Comm. Lukins. Yes. Comm. shell? Yes. Mayor schmitz. Yes. Comm. Sivak? Yes. Comm. wangen. Yes Comm. zent yes, and chairs approved with that we move on to our regular agenda this evening.

00:02:46,700	There is no consent agenda. So the first item in our regular agenda is item number three, which is a FedEx subdivision. It’s a request for a major subdivision, Final Plat and a zoning map amendment and Jenny is going to provide us with staff briefing this evening.

00:03:09,100	Thank you Good evening Chair schwartz Commissioners Robert Fettig is requesting approval of a zoning map amendment from the agriculture and CG commercial zoning districts to the CG commercial zoning district in major subdivision Final Plat titled FedEx Subdivision. These requests are located east of Bismarck between 52nd Street Southeast and 66th Street southeast along the south side of East Main Avenue. The Plat consists of 4.8 Acres with three lots and one block.

00:03:32,030	The proposed zoning map amendment and final plat are being requested to allow the development of a single family dwelling in conjunction with a commercial use on lot three of the proposed plan the area within the proposed Plat is partially developed. The hotel is located on Lot one and a single family dwelling is located on Lot two.

00:03:50,000	You tentatively approve the preliminary plat and called for a public hearing at your meeting on February 28th with the understanding that staff would not recommend approval of these requests. Unlisted annexation request is submitted and Ann Request was not submitted with the final plot.

00:04:10,970	The proposed plot is also adjacent to corporate limits, and in an area that is partially zoned CG commercial. It is also located in the expansion future, every area of our growth phasing plan. This plan is a map that shows when areas of Bismarck and and its ETA are expected to annex and developed based on proximity and availability of city services expansion.

00:04:34,070	Future areas may not be easily served with existing infrastructure and municipal services, but annexation is re Expected as the city expands it. Infrastructure and municipal services become available. Municipal water is available and located within the right of way of East Main Avenue.

00:04:54,670	However South Central Regional Water district is currently providing rural water to adjacent properties on lot one and lot two of the plat Municipal sewer is not available in this location and there are existing individual private sewer systems also located on lot one and lot two. Typically private sewer systems are not located on property that is annexed. However, a sewer is not available.

00:05:12,900	Staff have indicated that the existing private sewer systems could remain and a new Private sewer system could be installed on lot three The City in south Central Regional water district entered into an agreement in 1996 that allows the city to provide municipal water to south Central Regional water district and for the district to sell rural water to rural residents as part of this agreement, the city must provide.

00:05:34,200	Excuse me must approve of and agree to South central Regional water district, providing water to properties within two miles of corporate limits because municipal water is available staff from engineering planning and public works have Indicated that they will not support self central rule of water district, extending rural water to lot three.

00:05:54,070	The property is also identified as neighborhood mixed use in the future Land use plan which was adopted by this board in 2022. The NMU areas are social and commercial gathering spaces for immediate surrounding residential areas. Access to all three lots within the proposed subdivision would be from the existing access point on East May Avenue through Platted access easements.

00:06:15,900	The proposed Plat also includes an access easement along the north side of Lot two, which could provide access to the adjacent property to the east. If Access along East Main Avenue becomes limited in the future.

00:06:35,270	Since our last meeting staff have evaluated the project further and have determined that annexation of lot one the westernmost lot where the hotel is would not be required at this time because no improvements are being proposed on this lot, however, annexation of lots two and three would be required to extend municipal water from East Main Avenue through Lot two to Lot three without annexation of the proposed plat, or at a minimum annexation of lots two and three staff will

00:06:53,670	continue to recommend denial of both the zoning map amendment and the proposed final. A notice was published in the Tribune. On April 12th 19 And 16 letters were mailed to the owners of nearby properties on April 12th. We have received comments and those comments were distributed prior to this evening’s meeting.

00:07:13,630	The request was evaluated according to standards contained in the Comprehensive plan. Bismarck code of ordinances and Relative State law as a result of the findings contained in the staff report staff find that the proposed zoning map amendment and major subdivision final Plat may adversely impact public health safety and general welfare and are not consistent with the Comprehensive plan. Bismarck Code of Ordinances.

00:07:34,270	And relative state law without annexation of the proposed plot, the ability for the city to extend its boundaries and extend municipal services would be limited. Therefore, staph’s denial of both the zoning map amendment from the agricultural zoning district and the CG commercial zoning district to the CG commercial zoning district and major subdivision Final Plat for FedEx

00:07:55,600	subdivision. Do. You have questions questions for Jenny. I’m not seeing or hearing any Jenny. Thank you. This is a public hearing. So. At. This point I will open the public hearing is either a request or a representative here to speak to this agenda item. Thank you chair schwartz. Landon.

00:08:23,070	How are you I’m Swanson in engineering representing Robert Fettig in this? Um yeah, just to add on to a bit of what, Uh, Jenny had spoken about, and then talk about the annexation factor afterwards. Um, you know, the city agrees with us.

00:08:37,870	Obviously, this This area is is future land use plan as AC G zoning works for this area the surrounding areas or CG zone as sort of a business district along the East Main Street here, um as far as the plat goes, it’s fairly straightforward aspect of it. Three lots It’s already developed on Of those arts is that third lot that we’d be looking to develop at this point.

00:08:53,500	Um, we’ve also provided an access easement as Jenny mentioned to the property east of this, um, going forward in the future of the city would like to eliminate some of these access points on the main street. The developer has agreed to provide that access easement for the neighboring properties so that required to they asked him of it, and he provided it for him.

00:09:07,770	The issue with this plan becomes where it is, is the annexation request. At this point there is no sanitary sewer available to this property. In fact, there is no route. There’s no plan. We have no idea when sanitary will be available to this property and even what route it will take.

00:09:21,630	We don’t know if it’s coming from the north to the South, possibly both, Um, at this point to annex property without having full city municipal services is premature from from our perspective. Um, the developer is happy to sign a developer’s agreement that win sanitary sewer becomes available. This area he would annex into the property into the city. Excuse me.

00:09:41,870	Um, you know, there are a number of properties along this this route. I’m Sure. Everybody’s seen this this map of the city this kind of this long stretch of kind of oddball annexation. Some jigsaw puzzles. Some pieces are in some pieces are out. Some is platted in zone.

00:09:55,870	Some is still zoned egg, and it’s in kind of a mixed bag of things from our perspective. A waiting time is is would would benefit this property? The end result is the city and the developer get what they need. That’s really what we have, and I can answer any questions if you have them commissioners. Questions for Landon. So Landon.

00:10:20,500	I. Guess. I’ll ask a question The hold up on. This is primarily the access. To city utilities. Church Woods. That’s correct. Yeah, there’s no San who are available in the area for any of these properties right now, Um, someday that will happen. Hopefully. Maybe it comes down Main Street. Maybe it comes from the south.

00:10:39,130	We’re not sure at this point, and so therefore there’s no reason for us to come into the city at this point, um, start paying the higher tax rate when we’d actually not getting all of the city benefits. OK, Thank you. Thank you. Again in question, Commissioners. I’ll ask, Do.

00:10:54,730	You Have any questions for Landon? All, right? I’m not seeing or hearing any landed. Thank you. Without the, uh, podium is open for others that would care to address this agenda item. And I’m not seeing or hearing anybody. So with that I’m going to, uh Close.

00:11:30,870	Um With with that, and Monty, I saw you shaking your head? No, uh, would you care to get up at this time and speak? You have have nothing, OK? All right with that, Uh, I’m Gonna close the public hearing and Jenny. Any additional comments OK, commissioners.

00:12:01,670	The, um Staff recommendation for both the, uh Major subdivision, Final Plat and Zoning Map amendment is to deny what are your wishes? Motion to deny I have a motion from Comm. Zent to deny Second. I have a second from Comm. shell. So we have a motion to deny commissioners any discussion. I. Just a question if we deny You want to go forward with development. Or. Or.

00:12:30,470	Maybe it’s just they can’t go forward with development because because because we’re not going to allow them to, uh, get real water there. Um Is there a scenario where they get city water but aren’t within the city limits. Or is that not Not doable. So Comm. Shell. Under only extreme circumstances.

00:12:54,070	What I say that the city provides water outside of the the corporate limits on on occasion that might have occurred or or might might occur. Um, but generally speaking, we would not offer municipal services unless that property is annexed into the city.

00:13:08,700	So are we saying that they would they would be the city would have to allow them to get real water there to be able to develop this correct or they just in a tough spot where they can’t get water. They can’t or they Well. They have to concede that they Going to be within the city Comm.. If I could add.

00:13:28,730	I think, regardless of what would happen on this site they will need to have a private sewer system either provided with City water that gets in there first or if if real water is similar to how lot two is served with a Bo water system and then a sanitary, sewer, septic system or drain field, I’m, assuming, Um, regardless, they will need a private sewer solution of whatever their water service is, Uh, from the standpoint of with

00:13:45,800	the city, having, um, a water main there that has ample, um Fire protection ability hydrants available to suppress a fire at that location. That’s the primary service that we look for, Um if something had sewer and didn’t have water, we would not be pushing it the same way to to annex that property because we cannot

00:14:03,170	provide what is the the life safety type of of issues that we need to hold Paramount? Um so we in the instance where water is provided? Um, those are definitely situations where we would we can live without not having the sewer service provided and still feel that that is an adequate solution

00:14:19,470	for the time. OK? Thank you for clarifying? Thank you Both Comm. bet. Thank you mr Chair, so Is this property, then essentially stranded Because you You can’t get sewer. And. The City won’t allow water, so it’s not. It’s not able to be developed at all. Is that What this does. I. I. Guess.

00:14:38,730	I would view that with an annexation into the city. It would be allowed to develop in the configuration that they desire that the sewer service in my mind is a There’s a point in some ways, because it’s going to have the same sewer service, regardless of It’s annexation status and who is providing the water? It will have the same

00:14:56,530	sewer solution on that property. Regardless, so I view it more of just who is providing the water, then what the sewer solution will be You know, and rural water has been there in that area for a long time.

00:15:15,630	I mean at least the 45 or 50 years that I’ve been out there and I drive by this place every day. I. I. Just don’t think that we should deny the ability to develop that particular property just based on the the water and sewer thing. Because they Um They’re just being held hostage, and I don’t think that’s appropriate. We allow development all over the county. Um With similar circumstances.

00:15:40,930	It doesn’t seem to be any problem. And with regard to the question about Fire and whatnot. They. They could throw a rock and hit the real fire department from there. So. I don’t I don’t think that’s an issue. So. I’m not gonna support denial of Thank you Comm. Benner. Uh, this is Mike.

00:16:01,470	Comm. Smith. I. Have a court? Yes my question? Uh, probably follows along with Comm. Bittner’s concern. Why. Can’t. We put a development agreement in CA Can we Have a development agreement that would state the conditions that are necessary. Or when they become available that we can then annex the this parcel in at that point in time.

00:16:24,300	You. Seems like we get to vote. We get the solution we need Right. Uh, if I might Yes, Comm. Bener Mayor schmitz is Comm. Bittner. Um I don’t know if you’ve seen this letter, but we were all handed a letter. Um In regards to this from I did get I Did. Yeah. Ok.

00:16:49,200	OK, so that that seems to be a reasonable solution to allow it to move forward with that sort of a inappropriate agreement. Yeah. Mr Show, and Mayor schmitz.

00:17:09,500	If I would just Clarify that that is the first that I’ve ever and I should say I have not been approached by the developer or its applicant on the concept of a development agreement and what those terms and conditions would be so I guess without working through that process. Um, it would be difficult to recommend approval. Um, even with that, I would still take the position that on properties that are adjacent to the city limits When water is available.

00:17:29,530	We’ve offered that same package that say to other individuals who’ve wanted to Their land, uh, with the condition that as long as the water is there, uh the sewer service can be presented in a different way. And even our, uh, comp plan addresses.

00:17:46,870	Some of those considerations of trying to find that solution that works in that interim basis if only some services are available. Um, but once again, water being the paramount, one that we’re concerned with Thank you, Comm. Michel. Commissioners. Additional comments Comm.

00:18:10,800	bedner seems to me it would probably be more appropriate to allow the developer and his, um Engineers to work with the city and to hammer out the details on that, so that they don’t have to reapply because I think they’ve got Money in this already. Thank you. Commissioner’s additional Comments. If.

00:18:40,630	I may Um uh, Landon are you still available for a question? What is the development schedule on this project, so the schedule would be immediate for plan is to to do grading and and start construction of a of a building this this summer and fall. OK and I did see it was indicated that there would be a business of some kind involved. Can. You share information on that. Certainly Cherry S. So, uh, the owner of the property, owns the hotel as well. Um, he has a number of small businesses.

00:18:57,670	Uh, one is a snow removal business. Um, he does some repair on mobile homes and things like that. You also would run the hotel out of this business. Or he can be on Twitter all times. Snow removal. You know we get blizzards in the middle of night. He’s at home, he can grab his equipment and go.

00:19:09,530	He can take care of the hotel because it’s right next door. It’s that type of business, so multiple businesses are running out of his 11 building. OK thank you and answered my question. And. I should ask commissioners any other questions. Chair Schwartz. If. I’m Yes, Daniel, If if I may Oh I OK So I as Comm.

00:19:35,230	Shell mentioned the concert of development agreement. We really haven’t had a lot of time to digest and explore in detail. We, um, may have some questions about how that could legally be structured so it would be valid and run with the land if there were the property to be sold in the future and how that would fit within

00:19:52,600	century code allowance for annexation development agreements. So, um, given that we’re we Still acting on the spot to this we we may need to look a little more into it unless Janelle has found something in the last minute or so, Yeah. So chair. Um commissioners. So the annexation.

00:20:11,270	You can’t make an agreement that’s going to bind future owners of that land. Um under century code, they will still have the right to contest the annexation so that portion of it, um We can make an agreement to.

00:20:29,470	I think they did that with Cam K Estates where there was like a period of time where they wouldn’t petition to annex in, so you kind of can make those types of agreements. But for the property owner to bind future owners to say they will not object to it.

00:20:47,170	I’m not sure that under century code that’s a feasible way of doing that, Um, we can research and try and see if I can find anything around that if a different mechanism is in place to allow that to happen, I can I can try and figure that out. But it may not be a contingent annexation. Agreement, but it’s just was asked just now, so I haven’t had time to research it to help find a path forward for what you’re asking.

00:21:07,800	So, Janelle, if I understand you correctly, we can’t tie annexation to Utility services and in any future annexation. You can determine The issue of annexation, if if it was on the table it he didn’t petition so it’s not on the table.

00:21:27,600	Um so you could and you could also say We’ll agree We won’t petition or we won’t ask for a resolution X amount of time, but you’re looking for the opposite of that. So that’s why it’s A little complicated, but, um, I can try and find a password. I hear? I. Think. I. Hear what you’re saying so I can try and find a path forward through the statutes to try and get you there if I can But.

00:21:44,330	Um, that’s a hurdle and century code that we both Came up with right away that were like we need to make sure it follows century code. Thank you. It seems reasonable to me. OK? So commissioners. We have a motion on the table right now to deny this request. Any additional discussion.

00:22:14,200	If, not I’m going to ask Sarah to call roll. Comm. fields. I. Don’t agree with denying it. Comm. Larson. Yes. Comm. Lukins. Yes. Shell? Yes. Comm. schmitz. No. Comm. sacs. No. Comm. wangen. No. Commissioners in yes. Comm. Bittner. No. And Comm. johnson. No. Oh cheer Schwartz. Thank you? Yeah. I get the vote on this, too. It’s great.

00:23:09,700	Um, I’m going to vote No on this one also So the, uh knows have it. The, uh The motion is not approved. At this time. Is there Anything else. Comm. Bittner a motion to continue and to allow the developer and staff to work together and see if they could find a solution that Uh, Solves it. Fair enough.

00:23:34,670	Thank you Comm. Bittner. Do I Hear a second for that. I have a second from Comm. wagon without any additional discussion commissioners. If not Sarah. Please call the roll. Comm. Johnson. Yes. Comm. Larson. Yes. Comm. Lukins. Yes. Comm. shell? Yes. Comm. schmitz. Yes. Comm. Bittner. Yes. Comm. field? Yes. Comm. sac. Yes. Comm. Wangen. Yes Comm.

00:24:14,270	zent Yes Chair Schwartz. Yes. The motion is approved. We will move on to item number four on our agenda. Which is Apple Creek Country Club Fourth subdivision and, uh, this is a request for a minor subdivision Plat. And Lauren is going to give us a briefing on it this evening. Uh, good evening Chair schwartz and commissioners.

00:24:37,230	Mariner developers. LLC is requesting approval of a minor subdivision final plot titled Apple Creek Country Club Fourth subdivision. The proposed plot is located east of Bismarck in the southwest Quadrant of the Intersection of Country Club Drive and Highway 10 and consists of 5.63 acres with 14 lots in one block.

00:25:01,200	Their proposed free PT wood encompass lots one through five and seven through 11 of Block, one Apple Creek Country Club third subdivision to modify existing property boundaries and create new parcels. The existing R 10 residential zoning, which allows single into family residential would not change.

00:25:26,900	The lots in country Club third Subdivision, uh, were originally attended to contain twin twin homes on each lot, However with the proposed rep plot. It is the intention to develop single family dwellings instead on each of these lots adjacent uses include agricultural uses to the north across highway 10 residential uses to the South and West and Apple Creek Country Club to the east. The public has been notified of this request.

00:25:48,700	A notice was published in Bismarck Tribune on April, 12th and 19th and 76 letters were mailed to the owners of nearby properties on April 12th. Staff received two phone and two public comments. Uh, prior to this hearing, all of these revolved around drain concerns. Uh, and the written comments were, uh, provided to you prior to this hearing.

00:26:10,600	This request was evaluated according to standards contained within the Comprehensive plan. Bismarck code of ordinances and relevant state law as a result of all findings contained in the staff report. City of Bismarck staff find that the proposed subdivision would not adversely impact the public health safety and general well and general welfare.

00:26:32,100	Therefore, staff recommends approval of the minor subdivision Vinyl Plat for Apple Creek Country Club Fourth Subdivision. Do. You. Have any questions for me at this time Comm. questions for Lauren. Comm. field. So. Is there a city sewer and water at this location. Uh, no. Then. We should do a motion to deny it.

00:26:56,700	That’s what we just did the last one and that one’s closer to town. This one’s even further by miles. Comm. field chair commissioners. This property is not located next to or adjacent to city corporate limits. So, um In the The, same as the first one. Correct. Thank you Comm. field. Commissioner’s additional questions. For the Lord. Mr Bittner. Thank you, Mr. True.

00:27:32,500	I’m just curious if there is any special, um Effort put into the drainage question because I know that I read Where. There was some concern. Is there. Effort put into addressing that drainage concern. Mr Michel. Commissioners Comm.

00:27:57,330	Bittner, both city engineering as well as the county Highway department will review and approve any stormwater management plan associated with the Platte and that process was done before this or was done in conjunction with this repla so both the county and the city, um feel comfortable with where the drainage impacts will be the obviously there will be more water. Um, I shouldn’t say more water.

00:28:12,800	They’ll be same amount of water, but it will not be, uh, soaking into the land. It will be hitting the the driveways hitting the rooftops, etcetera. Um, but the location of their street will drive most of that water to the east, Um in the world, But.

00:28:28,570	There will be some areas that will could experience additional, um But just I Guess to express the concerns of there was a plan that was identified that was approved by both city and county staff. Um, as a part of this development. Thanks for that, because I do know those these developers and I, and I believe that they would be as conscientious as as need be on that so Very good. Thank you Comm. Bittner.

00:28:47,670	Thank you Comm. shell with that any additional questions for Lauren? Not seeing or hearing any Lauren. Thank you. Thank you. This is a public hearing. So with that I’m going to open the public hearing and he is either the requester or representative here to speak to this agenda item. Smart. Mhm. Good evening commissioners.

00:29:30,800	Uh, my name is Hannah Bays. I’m with Lowry Engineering. Uh, we are the civil consultant here to represent the owners of this property. Um, to address some of the drainage concerns that people have had, as gabe said there has been a drainage plan that was submitted, Um this property currently drains from north to south towards the

00:29:49,400	existing homes. Um, that are to the south of this and the owners. We’ve created a grading plan that will build this property up. Um, essentially the Thing north of the north.

00:30:08,800	Everything to the north of the homes on the south side of the road will drain north and connect the existing county ditch and, uh we have worked with the county and have approval to drain to the county ditch on highway 10. So. Um, as gabe said, We have done a stormwater analysis on this and the amount of storm water that will drain to the South will be less than what is going there today. Um I can go into more detail.

00:30:27,030	If anyone has questions on that. But like I said. We have put a plan together. Um as far as sanitary and water go, Uh, this area has their own sanitary sewer.

00:30:44,970	We are not connecting to the city Sanitary sewer, So we have worked with the co op out there and we will be connecting to their, um Their existing infrastructure that they have out there. Um, and then we have been working with real water as well. There’s an existing water line on the north side of the highway 10. Um, that we will be connecting to and that’s how we will be served. There is not fire service out here. Um So.

00:31:02,070	It will be a smaller line than Um Uh, an urban section in town. So if you have any further questions for me, uh, happy to answer them. Hannah. Thank you for clarifying those things. Commissioners. Do. You have additional questions for Hannah. I’m not seeing or hearing any Hannah. Thank you. Thank you. And again.

00:31:23,100	I’m gonna I’m gonna look out to the group and I see, Uh, Monty Scheibel is out there representing Apple Creek, Monty, would you care to step to the Podium, Mars outside Township. Thank you? Um one of my questions is, Is it already? Developed as Homes. Are there already roads out there.

00:31:49,070	Yes, there is so we already pay for like snow removal, even though it is your ETA. We still have to provide snow removal services, Road maintenance services, so that will not change. Every. Everything will stay the same. Yeah. I can address you. Thank you Comm. be. Yeah. That’s that’s a It’s Burly county.

00:32:14,400	Um Is not necessarily the only group that’s involved in maintaining that because that is kind of, you know, it’s a country club. You know it’s it’s Apple Creek Country Club, So it’s Their own thing. But. We do pay for some of the road services. Up to the entrance. Now. I’m Not Sure about past the entrance. I. I can’t speak to that yet.

00:32:33,030	I’d have to confirm that. But this Would not add anything more to the work. We do there just that you know that short little Range place. You know, And. That’s probably a few 100 ft of road so I wouldn’t see that as a problem for us.

00:32:54,870	I’m sure they were already there and everything was yes remains partially the same. So. We don’t have a extra expense added on to our town. I don’t see it. It would be a very small if there is one. I don’t I don’t see it. Property taxes that will generate what more than offset any costs. We’d have an increase in our tax there. Thank you Comm.

00:33:12,270	Bettner Monty. Do. You have any other concerns? Or that was the main concern if it’s already Being single or double and going into single and There’s Not really concerned. No issue from the Apple Creek side on our side? No, OK. Very good. Thank you.

00:33:38,630	With that the, uh Podium is once again open and it looks like Hannah’s coming back up. Good Evening commissioners, Uh, Hannah Bayes again, uh, the county did address Maintenance when we did our pre application meeting, and the county has expressed that they won’t maintain this, Uh the owners will create an HO a to maintain this. And if you look at your plat, uh, it’s actually not.

00:33:58,200	It’s not public right away. It will be a 40 ft Private access utility. Um Into sanitary who are in water easement. So. As. I said, Uh, the county will not maintain this. The owners are aware that an HO a needs to be created and they will be maintaining this. Very good. Thank you. Once again.

00:34:20,830	The podium is open. There are others that care would care to speak. Thank you if you would add your name to the log and, uh, introduce yourself, that would be wonderful. No. That Hello.

00:35:01,830	I’m Marie Halstead and I’m, a resident out at Apple Creek, and, um, I have one question about, um, how the increased traffic will, um, be, um, handled because in the morning and in the evening, I’m thinking with a new addition, the traffic leaving Apple Creek in the morning. Um, might be quite a backup, and I’m wondering if that’s Dressed or thought about That’s a good point. Thank you Comm. Shell.

00:35:27,630	Uh, I guess I can address at least from the city’s perspective. I don’t know if, uh, a traffic impact study was specifically addressed or discussed with our in our pre application meetings or or our application process during the life of this this proposal, but generally speaking, if it’s uh 14 single family homes, um from a traffic capacity standpoint, rarely is that, uh, hit a

00:35:46,330	threshold of a of a delay that would be Potentially noticeable. I mean there’s still 14 vehicle or, you know, 14 homes and they’ll generate traffic. So. I’m not dismissing that, um, but the amount of traffic generated there relative to what’s already within Apple Creek Country Club would be a smaller portion.

00:36:04,430	Um In that situation, so I just wanted to address that something that we do look at, but in this situation because it was only 14 homes that would not hit the threshold that we would typically use to to generate a more in depth analysis of those impacts. Thank you Comm. Michel. Marie.

00:36:18,700	Does that answer your question. Yes. It does and it may come up again. OK. Very good. Thank you. With that the podium is once again open. For, others it would care to address this agenda item. And I’m not seeing or hearing any so with that I’m going to Close the public hearing.

00:36:43,800	With that commissioners staff recommendation is to approve this minor subdivision Plat. What are your wishes. We have a motion to approve from Comm. Bittner second, a second from Comm. zent. Is there any discussion? And I’m not seeing or hearing any so, Sarah, Would you please call roll? Comm. Larson? Yes. Comm. Lukins. Yes. Comm. shell? Yes. Mr Schmitz. Yes. Comm. sac. Yes.

00:37:19,500	Mr Wan? Yes. Comm. Zent? Yes. Comm. Bittner. Yes Comm. field. Yes Comm. Johnson. Yes. Yes. The motion is approved. With that we’ll move on to item number five under our regular agenda, which is Excuse me.

00:37:44,700	Hay Creek Township, Section seven and 18, and it’s a request for future land Use Plan amendment and, um Believe Isaac is going to brief us on this this evening. Yes, Thank you chair schwartz and commissioners for this next regular agenda item.

00:38:06,100	The Community Development department is requesting approval of a future land Use Plan amendment in Hay Creek Township specifically Section seven and 18 of township, 139 North range 80 West, as you can see on the screens in front of you. This project is located northwest of Bismarck in the aforementioned sections of Hay Creek township west of Tyler Parkway and between First go away to the South and State Highway 1804 to the north. This.

00:38:30,530	Future Land Use Plan amendment is related to the Major Street Plan amendment that in the same general area that the Planning and zoning Commission approved at your meeting on March 27th 2024. So Last month’s meeting this, uh, future land use Plan amendment was considered at that time and the public hearing was called for the amendment here today is to maintain consistency of the more Intense anticipated land uses next to the more intense anticipated roadways like

00:38:53,030	collectors and arterials, and this was discussed with the relevant landowners and relevant stakeholders, including city staff and county staff. If this amendment were to be approved today staff would bring them together to the board of City Commissioners simultaneously and if we can go back one slide, I believe Forward one Oh, maybe it’s the

00:39:18,070	next one. Then. I’ll get them down eventually. But, so this area is zoned a agricultural and is currently undeveloped, and that is not proposed to be changed at any time soon. In general, the surrounding land is also undeveloped and zoned a agricultural with some urban and rural residential development further to the east.

00:39:39,970	As of right now, the closest point between this proposed area and the current city limits is about one third mile. And if the Current landowners have any plans in the works to develop it at some point in the future? No specific timeline or plans have been discussed with city staff. To this point.

00:39:57,700	This is purely a looking forward planning for the future, but not knowing exactly when development might happen specifically. So the area as you can see on the left side of the screen here is described in the current future land use plan as neighborhood mixed use on the Western side and community mixed use on the

00:40:17,270	Eastern side and both of which are a combination of residential and commercial development. Uh, with neighborhood mixed use being more on the residential side of that mixture and less on the commercial side and then community mixed use is just vice versa of that. For. This project.

00:40:39,900	The public was notified of this request via publications in the Bismarck Tribune on April, 12th and 19th and two letters were mailed to the nearby landowners on April 12th as well to my knowledge, Uh, staff have not received any written comments regarding this request. And as a cumulative result of all the findings contained in the staff reports in front of you.

00:41:01,600	City of Bismarck staff find that the future land use Plan amendment would not adversely impact public health safety and general welfare and it is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan Bismarck code of ordinances and any relevant state law. Therefore staff recommends approval of the future land use plan in the previously described sections of Hay Creek Township.

00:41:22,130	Does, the commission have any questions for me at this time Comm. questions For Isaac. I’m not, uh Comm. Zan. So. Um maybe it’s not thought of yet, but this would be an extension of 57th Avenue.

00:41:45,930	Going west, right? Yes, so this would be in an area where there is a vision to have an eventual extension of 57th Avenue, but again, no specific timeline on when that might happen at this point. Would that be the only road going into there because there’s nothing out there otherwise as far as exits sure if we can pull up the the slides again, uh for the current and proposed Future plan a major Street Plan amendment, so the horizontal

00:42:05,800	red line there is the 57th Avenue with the solid line on the eastern part being what is currently constructed and then the hashed line being a proposed future extension, so the proposed portion on the right there the primary East West corridor would be 57th Avenue Northwest, the future developers could, of course, add other local roadways there,

00:42:30,300	but the main major street as As far as the major street plan is concerned for East West travel in that area would be 57th avenue until you go further south to Ash, Cooley drive or further north to I, believe, uh, 64th Avenue or yes, all the way up north to the the state

00:42:48,400	highway, but the the hash blue line there it would be a possible 64th Avenue, but none of that is, uh, constructed at this time. Does that answer your your question. Comm. zent. That’s a concern because there’s nothing out there. It’s It’s It’s all open. Prairie, Right and again this is just a future plan.

00:43:12,070	No specific timeline on when this might happen, those details would be determined and worked out. Uh, later if you know, future development was likely. Thank you Comm. Comm. additional questions for Isaac. I’m not seeing or hearing any Isaac. Thank you. Uh, with that This is a public hearing.

00:43:39,670	And so, um I would ask the question I will open the public hearing and ask if either a request or a representative is here to speak to this agenda item. And. The answer is no. So with with that? Is there anyone else that would care to address this agenda item? And.

00:44:03,770	I am not seeing or hearing any so with that I’m going to close the public hearing. Uh, commissioners. This is a request for future land use Plan Amendment and staff recommendation is to approve what are your wishes? Motion to approve. We have a motion from Comm. Wan to approve. Oh, second. OK. We have a second from Comm. Larson, uh, without any additional discussion.

00:44:29,930	And I’m not seeing or hearing any So with that, Sarah, would you please call roll? Mr Shell. Yes. Mr Schmitz. Yes. Mister ST Yes. Mr Wan? Yes, Mr Z? Yes. Comm. Bittner. Yes Comm. field. Yes. Comm. johnson? Yes. Comm. Larson. Yes and Comm. Lukins. Yes. Yes, motion is approved with that. We move on to item number six in our regular agenda.

00:45:03,470	Which is revisions to the flood Plain district and Jenny is going to free us on this this evening. A long walk from over there. Schwartz Comm. staff is requesting approval of amendments to section 1404 19 of the city Code of Ordinances, the floodplain district.

00:45:32,870	The proposed amendments would add additional definitions to avoid misinterpretation and clarify requirements reduce the free border elevation requirement for pre firm manufactured home parks or subdivisions from 2 FT. Above. The Base Flood Elevation to 1 FT. Above the base foot elevation and change the effective date of the flood insurance rate map to June 6th 2024 you These amendments that you’re meeting on March 27th and called for a public hearing.

00:45:51,500	The city of Bismarck and its ETA are a part participating community in the National Flood Insurance program or the NF IP participation in the NF IP is a state requirement for communities in North Dakota communities that participate in the NF IP must adopt local floodplain ordinance that meets or exceeds FEMA and state requirements.

00:46:10,670	Any modifications made to the city’s ordinance must be reviewed by the state Flood Plain insurance program coordinator and FEMA’s flood plain. Specialists for compliance with state and federal requirements. The proposed changes outlined in the draft have been reviewed and approved by both the state of North, Dakota and FM.

00:46:30,000	My participating in the NFP residence of the city and ETA are eligible for flood insurance participation also opens the door for certain federal assistance, such as loans from the Department of Veterans affairs and the rural housing services through the Federal Housing administration and federal disaster assistance, a new flood insurance rate map or firm again has been completed for our community.

00:46:50,270	The mapping project started in 2018. The firm is the official map identifying special flood hazard areas. Those are floodplain boundaries Base flood elevation. Flood zones and flood ways. The regional firm for our community was adopted in 1985 Subsequent firms were adopted in 2005 and 2014. We are also a participating community in the community Reading system, or CRS.

00:47:13,200	The CRS is a voluntary incentive program that recognizes and encourages community floodplain management activities that exceed the minimum NF IP requirements. As a result, flood insurance premium rates are discounted to reflect the reduced risk risk resulting from meeting the goals of this program.

00:47:35,330	Currently, flood Insurance policy holders are eligible for up to a 15% discount on their premium, given our Class seven status, our class CRS classification is largely due to the existing 2. FT free border elevation requirement for structures. The requirement was added to the ordinance in 2010 after the 2009 9 ice dam flooding event.

00:47:57,000	To provide additional protection for future flooding events caused by ice damming on the Missouri River FEMA modeling for firms does not take ice stabbing into consideration as this type of flood flooding is challenging to predict flood waters may arise rapidly, giving less time to protect structures. It may cause flooding that is above and beyond the FEMA’s model.

00:48:14,130	Staff has been assured that no change to this discount or class rating would occur if the ordinance is adopted as proposed. A Stakeholder Group of industry professionals, including professional land surveyors, members of the burly county Water Resource district. Burly County planning are representative from the manufactured home communities.

00:48:34,530	North Dakota Water Resource staff members of the Bismarck Board of Adjustment and the Planning and Zoning Commission, as well as the mayor was formed into in May of 2023. This Group met five times to review the existing requirements. FEMA and state regulations, FEMA technical bulletins and to suggest changes. Um, staff would like to thank the stakeholder group.

00:48:53,070	Insight and comments throughout this process have been greatly appreciated by all of us at the request of FEMA and the North Dakota Department of Water Resources Citation of statutory authority referencing chapters in the North Dakota century code was added to delegate responsibility to the city of Bismarck. Um, regulations designed to promote health safety in general welfare. We have this language throughout title 14, but FEMA in the state wanted it specifically in this section of the code.

00:49:15,400	Um other amendments include definitions for enclosures. Existing manufactured home park or subdivision expansion to existing man film manufactured Home Park or Subdivision, New manufactured home Park or subdivision, um, in violation.

00:49:39,930	Clarifying language was also added to the definition of substantial improvements, explaining that any repair reconstruction or improvement of a structure that occurs within a consecutive two year period would be substantial would be a substantial improvement if the repair reconstruction exceeds 50% of the value of that. Sure.

00:50:02,900	Additional changes include technical requirements to allow enclosures below the base flood elevation based on certain conditions, reference to that effective date of the firm, which is June 6th, 2024 and again, finally reducing that free board requirement or that elevation requirement for pre firm manufactured home parks or subdivisions from 2 FT. To 1 FT. Above the base flood elevation. The Stakeholder Group was asked specifically if they were in favor of reducing the elevation requirement for all new construction and substantial improvements in our community, from 2 FT to 1 FT.

00:50:23,300	Above, the base foot elevation, the stakeholder group was not in favor of this reduction for the following reasons. The 2 FT Free border elevation requirement provides long term protection for homeowners with new flood insurance rate map efforts.

00:50:45,670	Flood modeling can change the special flood hazard area impact based on a variety of factors include including the Characteristics of the Missouri River, burly county is in the process of updating its floodplain ordinance as well. Burly County Planning Commission continues to recommend the 2 FT Free board standard. It has been suggested that burly county and the city of Bismarck Floodplain ordinance tried to be as consistent as possible.

00:51:02,870	This would be the case for a significant regulatory portion of the ordinance. If both the city and the county maintain a 2 FT. Free board standard by maintaining that 2 FT Free board standard homeowners carrying flood insurance. Continue to experience that 15% discount. Um, the public has been notified of this request.

00:51:22,630	A notice was published in the Tribune on April, 12th and April 19th 19th to my knowledge staff has not received any written comments or any comments regarding this. This these amendments The Zoning Ordinance Text amendment was evaluated according to standards contained within our comprehensive plan Bismarck code of ordinances and Relative State law As a result of all the findings contained in the staff report.

00:51:40,670	Staff find the proposed amendments would not adversely impact the public health safety and general welfare and are consistent with our comprehensive plan. Bismarck code of ordinances and Relative State law. Therefore, staff recommends approval of the amendments to section 14 and 419 of the city code of Ordinances as outlined in the draft Zoning Ordinance. Text amendment in your packet.

00:51:58,570	Do you have Questions. Commissioners. Excuse me a question for Jenny Comm. Shell. Jenny. How would an individual know if they are in a pre firm manufactured home park or subdivision for them to know if the 1 Ft Free board Qualifies for their proposed project or or not, That is a great question.

00:52:19,600	Um, pre firm means if the manufacturer home Park or the subdivision was created prior to that original firm date, which is 1985, a good majority of our marble home parks in town were created prior to that date except two home parks north northeast Bismarck so they can certainly call our office and we’ll we’ll lead them in the right

00:52:36,430	direction. Mr Michelle. I know that was your answer. I just wanna make sure I really understand it so pre firm would be when when anything was mapped, so there might be newly mapped areas that that might might be new to them. But those situations of this firm Would not apply. Thank you Comm. schell. That’s a great question.

00:52:54,500	You are correct. Thank you Comm. Shell. Mr Field. So. How does this benefit the people living in the mobile home park? Cause it looks like a negative to me. Comm.

00:53:13,600	field with a new mapping some of the mobile home parks on the south side of Bismarck are going to be effective and placed into the floodplain. Um, instead of having them elevate their structure to 2 FT. Above base, flood elevation. We in this ordinance have have made the the amendment to not require the 2 ft but require the 1 ft, which matched the state requirements. Do, they lose lose their discount if you go down to 1 ft. Comm. field. No.

00:53:38,170	It is our understanding based on FEMA’s review that this discount of 15% would remain for all properties. Um, even if the 1 ft elevation requirement was adopted for just the mobile home parks that are pretty firm. Thank you Comm. field to follow up on that. To follow up. The manufactured home parks are prob.

00:54:03,900	The manufactured home parks probably are not. Receiving FEMA, or flood insurance through the FEMA programs. But this will keep when they put in a new home in the manufacture home park that will allow them to not have to elevate those homes. So far. The air that could be dangerous. Thank you, Comm. Schmitz. Comm. Johnson that answered my question.

00:54:32,230	Commissioner’s additional questions for Jenny. I’m not seeing or hearing any Jenny. Thank you. Thank you. With that this is a public hearing and I will open. I will open. The public hearing. Hi. My name is Del Lindon.

00:54:57,130	I Am a longtime resident of a trailer park, and so is Bismarck 48 years at the corner of a New Jersey Street and Park Avenue. And if you look at the FEMA map, it’s on my front step. So. I’ve been flooded many times many, many times. And I’ve dug holes in the lot and put pumps in to survive in that location.

00:55:15,900	I like it there, my wife said it’s close to the to the to the thing over there anyway. Uh, I don’t care what you do down there or what? A 2 ft that place floods constantly. Even with all the construction that we took the city of Bismarck and Health department with there was human fishies in my lot at one time documentary. Uh, they came down.

00:55:36,200	They did all this construction work on South Charles Street. They didn’t listen to the man who designed that system. The drainage pipe goes through the trailer court on a West side. Look. These I do believe over to the drainage ditch, which has not been cleaned forever.

00:55:55,430	And without the flow in that ditch, you’re not gonna ever drain any part of that. And I’ve been told by the FEMA Lady. I was the only person from that mobile home park that went to that meeting. She gave me the maps. And. I was the only person there that she told that you don’t have to buy insurance because I own I own the place. But.

00:56:14,030	Uh, the It’s A. It’s a mess at all times. Now since all the construction was done at P 12th and through lies to flow the water. Uh I don’t know what street that is. It’s right on South Ninth Street by the Fire department. Just south of it. Uh, that ditch has not been cleaned.

00:56:32,730	It’s the Duck Slew now And at the end of the pipe, where it drains into the river. There’s a weir there. Do. You know what A Weir is? But you understand? It’s an obstruction in the end of that pipe, I hear I haven’t found it yet.

00:56:46,600	But Ducks Unlimited, was allowed to put a thirst so we can have more ducks in a slew. Which we have now. That’s really great for us, but I’ve been flooded, lost a lot of money. Uh, I have a double wide modular home with a double garage. And it doesn’t get in the house it gets in the garage. It’s destroyed too early. Davidson’s is destroy number of things.

00:57:08,270	Uh, I’m you know, and we can talk about 1 ft, or 2 ft. It, Uh Now. They’re talking about raising mobile homes to 5 ft in that area. Just to get through this right now. Well, the trailer park isn’t gonna do that, because I don’t know it’s feasible.

00:57:28,370	So how, as the house has move out, and the lots aren’t rentable. Close the rent, and that’s what’s been happening to us. So. A lot of people can’t stand it no more. I have no problem with them doing that, But. I have a big lot on the corner, the biggest lot in the place. And. I have two sailboats and a swamp boat in case that does what And.

00:57:47,600	They did unload a 20 ft fishing boat in the street with my daughter and at one time So it gets to be a mess, and it’s only that corner. I can go a block east or a block West and get out of that flood.

00:58:02,970	But no matter what you do, you’re always gonna have more of a flow coming from the south because the airport’s higher And. You’re always gonna have more of a flow from the North. Because. There’s more construction up north. We got into trouble and all this stuff on the South side develops. Your flaws from south right into that corner. Like a river. So.

00:58:22,670	I don’t know how anybody’s ever gonna fix it if they would, uh, contact the, uh Hurley Swen, I think is the guy who designed that he would explain it to you how it works. The city wasn’t listening. When. They fixed it. They spent a lot of money. And Steve Schwab was a Comm.

00:58:39,270	at the time down there, and he’s one of our neighbors. He’s got some lots and he had the right ideas, too. But I don’t think people were listening, either, but And the last time since the since the since it was all repaired the extensive work they did millions of dollars of work. Uh, it hasn’t decreased the flooding.

00:58:58,000	It comes up slower and all of a sudden I’m standing there. Four gs in that corner, and it’ll just stop. And a water rises pretty some little opened up and little goes in. Then. It stops again. It’s because it’s not getting out that ditch.

00:59:13,800	It’s not getting to the ditch properly, and it’s not getting away from the ditch. Look at that down there, take a take a trip, please. And the last guy I know clean. That was a contractor named my L Lippert and he he dug it down deep and wide and the water could flow And. Then. There was problems on Washington Street with the valve system.

00:59:30,600	That was busted during the last piping. And they had to pump the water over that bridge on there. So We just about went out on water that That time, so But every time it rains real hard a couple of three inches, even an inch and a half.

00:59:49,200	It’s like, Get, the duly pick up or sit my sailboat one of the two. So this year 26 ft boat going down to you know what happened so But. We all put up with it, and it it.

01:00:07,200	It’s affecting us in the in the pocketbook a lot because of the mobile homes that are leaving the older ones they hear about having to buy flood insurance. They’re not going to stay there. They’ll abandon the place so Thanks. That’s all I got. OK and you said your name was Del Lynd LIND. Could I get you to put your name on the log there? No. Please. No. My wife likes to live there because it’s close to the mall.

01:00:25,070	That’s what I was trying to get at, OK. I don’t want to move. So. That’s where I’m standing. Hey, look. I’m glad to see her a Navy Greater Bob. Thank you, dale. Thank you for your comments? They appreciated. You bet. Appreciate the opportunity.

01:01:06,000	OK with that The podium is open for any others that would care to address this agenda item. And I’m not seeing or hearing any so with that I’m going to close the public hearing commissioners. This is a a zoning ordinance. Text amendment staff recommendation is to approve what are your wishes? Motion to approve. We have a motion from Comm. Bittner to approve. Second. We have a second from Comm.

01:01:34,870	johnson without any additional discussion. Commissioners Comm. Bittner. Thank you Mr Chair. I’m just wondering, Uh, is there any kind of plans or anything in the works looking at that kind of drainage? Um That that Mr Lynn just spoke about Comm. chair Bittner. So.

01:01:59,130	The city has been Evaluating the impact of this flood change of flood risk map change that could be in our in our community. Um, we have solicitor, you know, requested funding from FEMA to address what that South Bismarck Flood control would look like we have received funding I.

01:02:18,230	I say this all hesitantly because we’ve not received a piece of paper that says it’s ours yet we’ve received, uh, a press release that says we were awarded things We haven’t seen the finding and the information that we know to make that final decision, But we have You’ve developed alternatives, um, that would either run down South 12 Street or run down Expressway that would relieve the flooding that occurs there because of a river flood and

01:02:35,930	and, But in doing so there would also be other benefits for just normal stormwater vents as well. Um, but really, the purpose of that is to focus on the FEMA certification of flood control within Bismarck to really remove these properties from the flood plain so that they would not be required to have flood

01:02:51,430	insurance. If. It’s a federally backed mortgage, um they are required to do that now, unless Removed from the floodplain entirely. So the goal of that product would be to do that, but it’s a large price tag, and we’re still just in the infancy of figure out those steps to to be able to do so something so

01:03:05,600	there will be a period of time. Um, if this ordinance passes from that June of 2024 date until whatever that solution looks like as it’s constructed that flood insurance would be a requirement for those properties, But.

01:03:21,600	We’re hoping to make strides to accomplish a goal of reducing the number of properties affected by that change. Good. Thank you thank you, Comm. Shall and thank you for the question. Comm. Bittner. That’s a very good one. Any other discussion commissioners? I’m not seeing or hearing any so, Sarah, Would you please call roll. Comm. Bittner. Yes. Comm. field. Yeah. Comm. johnson. Yes. Mr Larson? Yes, Comm. Lukins. Yes.

01:03:50,630	Mr C? Yes, Comm. schmitz. Yes. Comm. S? Yes. Mr Wangen. Yes Comm.. Yes Yes motion is approved many thanks Jenny for your leadership and chasing the checks. Leading the text amendment through things and for the folks that, uh, participated on the, uh on the, uh, focus group.

01:04:21,500	With that we’re gonna move on to item number seven in our agenda, which is a revision to the A Agriculture Zoning District district and it’s a zoning ordinance, Text amendment and Jenny is going to brief us. The last one for me today. Chair schwartz Comm.

01:04:48,130	staff is requesting approval of amendments to sections 1402 3 1403 6 1403 8 and 1404 17 of the city code of ordinances to allow for agriculture, recreation uses and private writing arenas in the agriculture zoning district based on certain criteria. You, consider these amendments at your meeting on February 28th and called for a public hearing before we get into the amendments and discuss what the ordinance does. I want to take a moment.

01:05:04,730	To discuss what the ordinance does not do. It does not affect Papa’s pumpkin patch or the properties of the north of Papa’s Grandpa’s S Hay rides. Both of these properties are included in their own PUD, or planned unit Development Zoning district. Both of these properties will continue to operate.

01:05:22,170	Nothing in the proposed ordinance will require their operations to change in any way. Community Development staff have received inquiries from property owners to amend the zoning ordinance to allow agriculture recreation uses that offer opportunities to promote Agra tourism and amend the ordinance to allow for private riding arenas that are larger in size than standard accessory buildings.

01:05:44,200	As written today and without the proposed amendments, the zoning ordinance does not allow rural event type uses or large private riding arenas. Staff agree that these types of uses should be allowed within our community and over the past year have worked with the stakeholder group, including representatives from the Planning and Zoning Commission.

01:06:03,470	The Board of Adjustment, really county planning the owners of Papa’s Pumpkin Patch, Grandpa, S Hayride and Apple Creek Farms to draft the proposed amendments. The Stakeholder group reviewed ordinances and criteria from other communities throughout the state and zoning practice publications from the American Planning Association and determined that new uses or use groups for agriculture, recreation and private riding arenas should be created and added to the zoning ordinance,

01:06:24,500	City and county staff also met representatives from the Convention and Visitors bureau and the tourism division of the North Dakota Department of Commerce back in March During this meeting staff was asked to revise the draft ordinance originally considered at the February Meeting to provide more flexibility.

01:06:44,300	Um, it more flexibility to educate the public about agriculture and and create opportunities for agri tourism. In order to balance the component of Agri agri tourism with the commercial component of Agri. Agri tourism staff revise the draft ordinance to create two agricultural recreation categories.

01:07:06,470	Agriculture recreation, minor and agriculture, recreation major, We’re going to say agriculture a lot of times in the next 10 to 15 minutes. So Bear with me Agriculture. Creation minor includes the includes uses that are education focused. The agriculture recreation miner would be permitted by right for properties located within the agriculture zoning district that are entirely outside of the urban Service area boundary and includes 35 acres or more.

01:07:28,400	The Urban service area boundary is an official line established by the City Commission within the city Zoning subdivision jurisdiction that distinguishes between future urban and rural areas. City growth, municipal structure expansion. Within. This area could be expected to 10 to 15 years areas outside of this boundary are not expected to see urban growth for a number of years.

01:07:50,200	Agriculture recreation Major includes uses that are event focused similar to commercial recreation uses that are permitted in the commercial and industrial zoning districts in our community, the agriculture recreation major uses would be permitted by special use permit for properties located within the agriculture zoning district that are entirely outside of the Urban Service area boundary

01:08:09,400	and include 35, or more acres. Additional criteria for approval include that the use is in conjunction with the primary agriculture use. Without that primary agriculture use the use is more commercial in nature and not appropriate in the agriculture zoning district.

01:08:31,300	The Zoning ordinance describes the agricultural zoning district as a district in which the predominant use of land is for agricultural uses. It further notes that the intent of the agriculture zoning district is to encourage the continued use of land for agriculture uses and to prohibit scattered commercial and industrial land uses.

01:08:53,270	Additional criteria include attendance that is limited to 250 people, the maximum number of events is limited to 12 per year, mitigation of noise and light impacts to adjacent properties, Additional setback requirements and requirements to meet ethical life and safety building and fire codes. Staff also noted that the zoning ordinance didn’t include a definition for agriculture. Um, staff added this definition as well. It’s agriculture is the science or practice of cultivating the soil producing crop and raising livestock.

01:09:16,630	Thank you Webster’s dictionary? Um, a definition for private writing Arena Arena is also needed to be added to the ordinance. Um, private writing arenas would be approved by special use permit again for properties located in the agriculture zoning district that are entirely outside the urban service area boundary.

01:09:39,070	Include 35 acres or more criteria for approval include the arena is ancillary to in conjunction with a single family dwelling and that there are no sales shows, competitions, training clinics or similar events within the premises similar similar to the agriculture recreation Major. Without these criteria the arena would would be more commercial in nature and not appropriate in that agriculture zoning district.

01:10:03,600	Additional criteria include building locations, a size limitation of no larger than 22,000 square feet, setback requirements and requirements to meet applicable life safety building and fire code. Staff was also asked by the group to modify the latter parcel size and increase the area of accessory buildings approved by special use permit.

01:10:23,330	You’ve seen those at this board a number of times for those for those properties again located in the agriculture zoning district entirely outside of the urban Service area boundary, the accessory building size was increased from 7500 Square feet to 8000 Square feet.

01:10:46,270	Um, the number of acres was reduced from 80 to 70 acres for properties that are zoned agriculture and located outside the USA B. Those properties can build a 15,000 square foot accessory building. I think that pretty much covers the amendments. Um, the public was notified of this request. A notice was published in the Tribune on April, 12th and 19th staff have received comments regarding the proposed amendments.

01:11:05,470	Those comments were delivered to you prior to this evening’s meeting the Zoning Ordinance Text amendment was evaluated according to standards contained in our comprehensive plan, Bismarck Code of ordinances and Relative State Law as a result of all the findings contained in the staff report staff find that the proposed amendments would not adversely affect the public health safety and general welfare and are consistent with

01:11:21,430	the H a plan Bismarck code of ordinances and relative state law. Therefore staff recommends the zoning ordinance to recommends approval of the zoning Ordinance Text amendment for sections 1402 03 1403, 06, 1403 08 and 1404 17 of the city code of ordinances to allow the to allow agriculture, recreation uses and private riding arenas within the

01:11:44,070	agriculture zoning district based on certain criteria. I’m happy to answer any questions. Commissioners. Questions for Jenny. Comm. Larson, Mr chair, Jenny how what was used to decide the 250 persons in attendance at a time and 12 events per year? Sure. Thank you Comm. Larson, Um commissioners 250 came from the stakeholder group.

01:12:10,700	I believe Morton County peer community, um has 200 as their limit. We decided to go a little bit beyond that, and and Discuss 250. It’s important for the proprietor to understand that that’s the number of people that they could have. And certainly when people call and ask questions, or maybe log a complaint, we can let them know that the limit is 250.

01:12:30,970	Same holds true for the number of events per year, you could have one a month or a number of them during the spring summer fall season. That’s true. Mr Michelle.

01:12:50,770	Jenny, the the number of events would just be the major events where they could have an unlimited number of minor education focused events at the same site, though, is that correct? Comm. shall that is correct so they could do a number of education. Classroom tours assisted Phil, Uh, assisted living facility toes and also do 12 of the major event type uses. Thank you. Thank you Comm. bettner. Thank you, Mr Chair. So If I owned, Um 20 acres of land in town.

01:13:12,670	Is there a limit on the size of building I could put on that. Comm. Bittner. Um if you own 20 acres in town, it’s likely gonna be zoned something, um, the area or the number of accessory buildings are the lot coverage.

01:13:30,270	We call it in town is based on the zoning district, so commercial zoning district or an industrial, You could, um, cover 80% of your property with with any roof structure. OK So if it was 20 acres. Then. I could have a building that was Pretty big. You can Yep. So. You limiting somebody That’s out in the Out in the ETA to something. Less than what you could do in town.

01:13:56,000	We’re allowing property owners that are zoned agriculture to do a pseudo commercial use on their property. My position on the ETA, Um to hear somebody that that works for the city of Bismarck. Bless your heart to say that you are allowing citizens out in the county to do something just doesn’t sit well with me.

01:14:19,430	Same thing with the, uh $700 special use permit. I’m going to support this in the end after the public hearing, but I opposed to some parts. Thank you, Comm. Bener. Comm. johnson. If. They were to say more than 212 events per year or more or want more.

01:14:42,400	Patrons and ben does that mean that they just they should be seeking a different type of zoning like you could envision some type of Um, you know, Think of wineries in California, where they might have weddings every weekend. Um, is that still an opportunity, but they just shouldn’t be in this agri cultural zoning that should be so different differently. Another. Great Question, Um Comm. johnson commissioners.

01:15:03,130	They could apply for a PUD similar to Papa’s pumpkin patch and rezone the property from agriculture to PUD, and those uses would be specified in that zoning district. Thank you, Comm. Johnson. Comm. additional questions for Jenny. Civ. When. You talk about the fire suppression in those buildings. What is that requirement? If you have 250 people in there.

01:15:28,800	There is a fire suppression requirement. I would ask the building official to to answer that he’s much more in tune with those requirements than I am. Take this. Thank you, Jenny. Hello Comm.. My name is Brady Bowski. I’m the building official for the city Bismarck, So Fire Suppression is based on a couple of different things.

01:15:49,400	Argument load can be one building size can can be the other so each time One of these buildings would would come in for a permit. We would evaluate that with the applicant just to see what they’re planning to use it for kind. Things are going to be inside that building. So.

01:16:07,270	What are the requirements of certain size of pipes holding tanks. What do you gotta have Uh, for you’re saying for the sprinkler system itself, Correct. Um yeah. So. The. The Fire department would determine exactly the The design of that system along with, uh, an engineer. The Because.

01:16:25,970	They wouldn’t be on like a city service in those areas that would likely be above ground tanks and pumps to serve those those pipes in the building would if a sprinkler system is required, it would be sprinkled throughout. Comm. Bitner. Thank you, Mr Chair. There’s there. There must be a magic number.

01:16:49,930	Where over a certain number of people, um, triggers the sprinkler or is it just no matter what, Um, certain number of people is dependent on the the use of the building so some assembly uses. It’s a hundreds. Others It’s 300 again the area of the building dependent on its occupants classification. OK, thank you. Thank you Comm. Bittner.

01:17:10,730	Other questions for Brady since we have him on the At the podium. I’m not hearing or seeing anybody. Thank you. And. Jenny is back any additional questions for Jenny before we let let her Call it I’m not seeing any Jenny. Thank you. This is a public hearing. So with that I will open the podium to, uh Those would care to address this agenda item.

01:17:40,130	And. If. You would please put your name on the log up there and introduce yourself that would be wonderful Chair schwartz Commissioners. I’m Sarah Aie Coleman. I’m, the director of the tourism division for the North Dakota Department of commerce.

01:17:58,870	I’m also a burly, coy um, producer we produce, um agricultural, um throughout the county and Bismarck resident, So I’m wearing lots of different hats here tonight. Um some of my comments I think are going to be a little bit more philosophical than what you’re used to in this hearing, but I just want to kind of provide a little bit of Context to why we’re here tonight and why we

01:18:13,200	think this is so important for Bismarck to be a leader in developing this policy that will impact future, You know other communities, other counties and how they’re they’re addressing, um agri tourism and agritourism policy. Um, the North Dakota ranks 46th in the nation in terms of the agri tourism operations we provide. We pre.

01:18:35,130	We lead the nation in 8 to 10 crops every year and we don’t have the opportunities for people to Learn about agriculture and to experience agriculture and so at our in our office we’ve been working to try and develop those opportunities now do many of them fall within the city limits, probably not appreciate Jenny’s work in taking the

01:18:54,370	leadership on this, but probably most of them are are going to be in the county. We understand that, but I also heard heard the discussion about how it’s nice to have consistent, um especially like in the flood plain and some of the other stuff you were talking about how it’s nice to have some consistency, and we

01:19:09,730	know that this issue is going to be You know, coming forward to the burly county commission again soon. So. How How, do we? How? Do? We, you know, capture, you know those two point so just under a billion dollars in sales and 2.9 billion in sales direct sales off of these acre tourism operations.

01:19:27,400	How, do we capture that? And? How do we celebrate kind of this aggregor agrarian culture that we have here in North Dakota and not deny it by by not allowing landowners or producers to offer these experiences so to there’s there’s the end of my soapbox. I promise.

01:19:47,130	And now I’ll just kind of get into some of the specifics. Um, we, You know, I think Agra tourism activity is is defined in century code. Um and and that we we reference that at some of the meetings and I think it would be nice for consistency to be able to include that definition here and to also call it agri tourism instead of

01:20:05,330	egg recreation, Because when you say a recreation it kind of discounts the ed education piece, which we talked a lot about right if you want to have these tours for the kids or whatever that isn’t Necessarily fall into the activity piece and agri tourism is kind of the you know the kind of the accepted terminology but that

01:20:22,400	that’s neither here nor there. That’s that’s you know, Wordsmithing 11 area that we we, Um think would make sense is is to really think about when you’re thinking about the major and the minor. Um I If. We define that the minor.

01:20:41,070	We feel some of the activities that were included in the major should be in the minor, so things like pumpkin patches. Rides and those types of activities. Um you know, they they’re they’re gonna be very seasonal in nature.

01:20:59,670	They probably are gonna need to be more than 12 times offered in order for them to be profitable or to provide any profitability, especially weather contingent, right? We never know what the weather is gonna be like during these things so that that’s one of the suggestions.

01:21:16,300	We just like that definition, you know, altered and some of those other ones shifted out of the major and the major one would just reflect some of these larger venues and activities that Attract you know more people? Um, the other thing that we would like to like you to look at a little bit deeper is is the use groups so you know in in Amendment 14 03-7 the the number 12 Youth group is farming group, but yet we never tie We never define any or tie that back to that.

01:21:35,600	So I know at our meeting meetings we had talked about OK What, You know what are these minor activities? You Know I. I is it is it you picks Is it on farm markets Pumpkin, Pat. Corn mazes. You know we’ve got a whole list. What.

01:21:50,170	What are those users And how do we define those? So that we can, you know again, allow them to offer these experiences. Um which you know, enhance our quality of life and also provide them an opportunity to diversify their their income. Um and then the other.

01:22:09,330	The other points that that we have concerned about, too was just the randomness of the 12 events per year and the 250. I wasn’t sure what all weather access was. So that was new in this draft and haven’t had a chance to I just saw this today, so I haven’t had a chance to inquire as to what that might be, But, um, with that, I’d be happy to answer any questions.

01:22:25,830	Um, we would, we would we would like to go back to the drawing board and work on this a little bit more, Um, in hopes that that we Really have you know this? This ordinance from the city of Bismarck be the the poster child for the development of further policy throughout the state. Very good.

01:22:44,500	Thank you, sir? Uh Comm. Comm. shell. Regarding. The. The comments of bringing some of the activities from the major into the minor. Um, can you maybe speak to like how you would recommend guarding against the that pumpkin patch turning into a 7000 person event that actually is a pretty big deal, but we’ve now somehow exempted that thing

01:23:04,670	because it’s a county wide thing that everyone goes to can you maybe speak to how you think that could be addressed in the ordinance? No I? I think the number of piece is tricky, right? And? We could talk about PU DS, but the question about you know, I would Papa’s FN patch, Get a PUD now in this

01:23:20,300	day and age with the number of people that they get. We all love it right. It’s a it. It’s one of the greatest attractions of the fall. We all love it, But now I think we have to think about you know what? What would What would pass and what wouldn’t because things are changed and and and neighbors,

01:23:37,200	you know, have property rights as well. So it’s complicated. So to answer that question. YY. You know, I. I understand. We need to have some kind of limits. And there There comes a point right where you just need to to, you know to to to stop accepting people onto the land, But.

01:23:52,830	I think that really needs to be dependent on the Of activity, so hopefully that could be worked out. You know individually, um and based on the size and the access points, you know, I mean some agri tourism activities may have multiple access points, which would make it different than if you if you were just accessing it from one place or just had

01:24:09,330	one parking area. Again, probably not in the city. But. These are things that that we wanna think about as we’re as we’re thinking about it statewide. Thank you Comm. Michel, Uh, commissioners additional questions. Commissioners in Yes, sir. How. How would some of this stuff vary from coy Farris? Or.

01:24:30,200	I mean, Burle County doesn’t really have a county fair. We’ve got other things, but How would that how would you see it Visioned with KY fairs. I mean that’s definitely agricultural like Morton County and stuff like that. Yes? Yes, Comm. that that’s true and I. I.

01:24:45,330	Think I if if I if I and listen zoning and this this is all new to me, I’m a marketer, so Bear with me. I’ve learned a lot the last few few weeks on this, but my understanding is most of those are zoned, you know, specifically depending on where they’re at, like the burly county fairgrounds is zoned differently, Um, which allows for different agri tourism

01:25:04,200	activities and whatnot, So I think, I. I again. I think it. It really depends. But, but that that does beg the question of of what about a similar fare that might not be an official far that is showcasing agriculture. Thank you Comm. Comm. additional questions for Sarah. I’m not seeing or hearing any Sarah.

01:25:29,470	Thank you for your comments. At. The podium is open for those that would care to address the agenda item. She’s the only reason her and her husband are the only reason that I’m going to support this thing, But. I’m, Brian’s neighbor. So. Um, good evening. My name is Renee Zel. And. We Live.

01:26:07,800	We have Apple Creek farm and it’s at 7 50/80 Street Southeast, which is on the corner of 80th Street Southeast and Apple Creek Road. There’s a big red bar in there. Um I’ve been attending the community development attending the community development stakeholders meetings, um, to help establish this draft ordinance, and my interest is in the agricultural recreation.

01:26:31,370	Um, I. Wanna thank Jenny and the committee for all their time and consideration that’s gone into numerous drafts in September that they’ve been working on this. Um, I wanted to just give you an example of how we would use this ordinance.

01:26:52,130	Um Apple Creek farm raises and breeds alpacas, Um for their fleece, which is then processed into yarn and Colfax, North, Dakota. We, send the fleece in And. Then we also send some of our fleece to a co op on the East Coast, which produces alpaca products, socks, hats, mittens, blankets. We also raise miniature Highlander cattle, chickens and graze sheep.

01:27:14,570	Seasonally, Um our gardens, produce pumpkins, flowers and garden produce, which we sell and also donate. Um, these farm activities, especially the alpacas have resulted in a lot of interest from the community. For Education visits schools, churches, organizations, um, and individuals in our egg based area.

01:27:39,930	We feel it’s important for the community to have access to these things, learn and appreciate where their food and other products come from. As an example of how this ordinance would educate and enhance the community. We introduce guests to the alpacas. We take them through the whole process of the rough lease to the finished project product as well as discovering where eggs come from introducing them to various garden crops. Some of them we grow are more unusual.

01:28:03,170	Um, we also do our tour and tasting as the kids walk through the garden. And, Uh all of those activities as it’s written now would be in the minor portion of the ordinance. The agriculture. Major, um, portion would allow other agricultural based events hosted by Apple Creek Farm.

01:28:26,700	And would require us to obtain a special use permit. Um, we have hosted a few weddings on the farm. Um, we’ve never advertised. We’ve never advertised it as a commercial, um, venue, but we have had family and friends have weddings at the farm. And in the future. We do not plan to have an event venue.

01:28:49,000	It’s just too too much for what we want to do. Um all events are generally generally between May and October. Um, the events that we would like to host our national alpaca farm days. It’s a weekend of September when alpaca farms across North America open their doors to the public for farm visits, education and products.

01:29:11,500	Um, we would like to have Farm to table dinners, which are are hosted by Mabel’s all day, which is a licensed food truck. Um, they have beautiful 5 to 7 course dinners that highlight the produce from our garden, and we also have a local acoustic musician. Um fur and craft classes as they relate to agriculture products.

01:29:33,330	Um, a harvest gathering, um for pumpkin sales, apple pressing produce and, of course, alpacas. Everybody wants always wants to see the alpacas. Um, a few open farm days for just farm picnics that would include local musicians, a food truck alpacas and just to relax, laid back day to enjoy Bismarck’s rural farm setting. Much like you would do at a winery.

01:29:55,930	We don’t have any product for sale, like wine or cider. Um and other areas of the nation and the state have thriving agricultural recreation and agri tourism opportunities. It’s time to provide these experiences to our community. We enjoy sharing our farm not for monetary gain, but for the education and enjoyment of the public.

01:30:20,330	I’d like to thank the Planning and zoning Commission for your consideration on the Agriculture Recreation Ordinance. Any questions. Commissioners. Questions for Renee. Comm. Renee. This is kind of just a Personal question, but How is the, um, a pack of fleece market right now.

01:30:45,870	There so oh, I could go into the reason I’m Seeing this is I talked to a a sheep farmer here earlier. This, um Weak and he said the wool market is way down. I’m just wondering if it’s following the same trend. OK, OK. Yes. Thank you Comm. Comm. bedner. Thank you, Mr Chair, Renee. So. You’re confident that, um what you’re doing is is Not restricted. No.

01:31:09,970	No, I. Don’t feel it restricted. Um some of the items would need the special use permit. But with that special use permit and you’ll see me again. If. This is passed. Um it would cover everything we’re doing. Yeah just for the record.

01:31:27,170	I don’t think they should have to have a permit at all to do what they’re doing. They are, uh Really. Everybody would wish to have them for a neighbor, OK? It’s. It’s Been that good, um for what they’ve been doing so Like. I said. I’m just opposed to that $700 special use permit because they are not causing any problem out in the county whatsoever. And, then people really like it. Thank you.

01:31:50,530	Thank you for your comments? Comm. Bittner. It’s always good to hear about good neighbors, Renee. So just to make sure that we all understand, I. I know you’ve been part of the stakeholders group all along on this one.

01:32:10,430	And, you are generally you believe overall that this is a, uh, an ordinance that will work for what you need to do. Ok. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. With that the podium is open. For others it would care to address this agenda item. And. I’m not seeing her here. Thank you if you would add your name to the log and introduce yourself, That would be wonderful.

01:32:40,200	My name is Bonnie Munch. I. Guess. I just have questions for the people. Now when Janny first came up, we were talking about writing arenas. And how many acres you have? You can have this like building you have 80 acres. You can have a bigger building.

01:33:02,730	And, then, um, this lady came up and talked about her. Apple cricket. Apple or apple Pig farm and everything she provides for the community and the horse riding arenas is for education. I Get this this whole thing? To be able Because I’m trying to get this ordinance in my head and understand it. Uh, You can only have 12 occurrences correct. Jenny. Called 12 events. And.

01:33:35,770	They all have to deal with education. So, If If. I may um certainly The agriculture, Recreation Minor use group is the one that deals with education. They have a classroom tours Those are permitted would be if approved, they would be allowed to do that a number of times as many times as they want the agriculture, recreation major

01:33:59,700	and and then those terms are based on similar terms. Within our ordinance, we do, major major major minor plat major minor site plan Those kind of things. Those are Based on the large rural event uses like a wedding or a corporate event or or something along that That that nature The private writing arenas.

01:34:22,670	Um, they’re they’re They’re what they are. They’re for private individuals whose kiddos have or in English, writing or barrel racing or whatever, and they need or, um, a larger size building to move those animals around. OK, but to whoever builds this big riding stable, cannot, uh Cannot conduct more than 12 classes in the whole year.

01:34:47,870	The folks that build their writing a arena and it’s it’s separate from the agriculture, recreation Major and Agri agriculture, Recreation. Minor use the private riding arena. Um, you’re not limited to Events so to speak. You can utilize that building all the time. But it’s not a a public venue or a commercial venue.

01:35:08,600	Um if one wanted to not use their writing arena any longer, and they met the other criteria to get approval of an agriculture, recreation major and hold wedding events there and and do the thing do the the criteria the life safety have parking you can you can get to it.

01:35:23,700	That would be something that this board would review with a special use permit. OK and you also said, this is to get a jump, uh, to jump agri tourism in our area and perhaps throughout the entire State, But. You Guys have also stated there’s quite a bit going on throughout the entire state.

01:35:47,630	I guess I’m hearing a whole bunch of Different things here with this one. Uh, Whatever you call it? Uh, Bill or code or zoning thing? You’re gonna a man man that you’re gonna pass. So. It deals with writing stables, and it deals with Agri tourism.

01:36:15,930	It does and and those two can be similar, but they function differently when we get into a zoning ordinance amendment it takes A long time A number of stakeholders we’ve been working on this one for a year, and it’s typically a a four month public process because of private riding arenas and the agriculture, recreation. Major and minor uses are both have to do with our agriculture zoning district.

01:36:33,530	We put them into the same text amendment. Um, they don’t have to function together, but it’s it’s more ease of use for staff and in ease of time for for this sport and other public boards to see them both at the same time in the same ordinance. I see.

01:36:50,770	I was just wondering, cause they were like way totally two different things. We said. Agriculture a lot of times so I get it. Thank you. Thank you, Bonnie Appreciate your comments. Hi. My name is Laurie Halvorson. And. I live in burly county, So I Think, I might end up having more questions and comments. And I agree that this is within the Bismarck CT a.

01:37:14,000	You’re talking about for this ordinance. OK love the apricots. Love your farm. I’ve been there many times and I think that is amazing. But then all of a sudden you’re throwing in corporate events and weddings. What about the neighbors? When there’s those events. Um, what you do at your farm. Completely different than somebody holding weddings. Every Saturday night.

01:37:42,930	All summer long when there’s neighbors that want to enjoy the quiet In their area. So that’s my question. How, can you throw in those huge events? And, combine them with something like that. Which is not obtrusive at all. That’s wonderful. OK, um, and taking a private riding arena. Which.

01:38:07,100	I think everybody should be able to have if they have their property. But then those individuals could turn around and have a corporate events center. Or a wedding center. Wedding event center. I mean I. See, that’s all wrong. When you have neighbors. So I. I mean? I think this ordinance should be separated? To allow absolutely Agricultural stuff.

01:38:33,070	I don’t see a commercial wedding event center as being agriculture at all. Um So that’s my question. Can. You separate. Can you split? The ordinances. And allow Agri tourism. Which is that And, uh, Corn maize. But, uh, wedding or corporate Event center. Really. I mean That’s My question. How can that be in the same ordinance? And.

01:39:01,470	What about the neighbors? I mean? I understand having to get a special use permit. For certain things. And that usually I don’t know if a special use permits allows neighbors to have comments. But You have a huge event. 12 times a year. Or 12 times in the summer. That’s almost every weekend. So I guess.

01:39:32,470	I was like, Yeah comments and questions. So I don’t know You guys have been working on this ordinance. How. How, Do, you address those things. J schwartz. If I May, It might be helpful to give a little background on what a special use permit is and how that functions.

01:40:02,730	Um, so when we do have special use permits for a number of different, uh, uses in our community that are allowed by zoning but requires one extra meeting, um, to be allowed, and so for the special permit process. All of the neighbors are notified, uh, within a quarter mile of the property, and a hearing is held. It is advertised in the paper.

01:40:20,430	And. So, this this body here, the public the Planning Zoning Commission. Uh, here’s from the neighbors. Here’s from the applicant and delibrate, and it makes a decision on it. So the the purpose of having the species permit requirement for those larger events.

01:40:36,530	Is really to address the concerns that were mentioned here to make sure the neighbors are aware and and comfortable with what’s being proposed. And so that’s that’s the reason for that. Thanks, Daniel. Laurie. Thank you for your comments Appreciate that. Are there others that would care to I do have one other comment.

01:41:03,600	Um, I believe that Sarah had mentioned separating some of the items out of the special use permit side. Um, into the minor side. Um, if I would apply for a special use permit. And neighbors would say We don’t want weddings there that’s included in that special use, major. Um, but I still would like to have a small pumpkin patch that’s also included in that.

01:41:28,300	Um, can you specify that my special use permit are for these items, But if they oppose the wedding, take that out. Or does it include everything that is within A major recreation. I’m seeing a lot of head shaking. We’re all nodding here. We’re just kind of waiting for wayne. Um yes, Renee that that would be something that we could do.

01:41:46,900	The special use permit could be based on criteria that you If. There was opposition to a certain event. We could work through that. Wonderful thank you. Podium is open for others that would care to address this agenda. Commissioners. My name is Don Zundel. I Am, Renee’s husband at Apple Creek Farm.

01:42:38,930	I have Been, a professional educator, my entire life and involved in education. So. It’s natural for us to wanna share this property. And. Then. I asked myself What Does that look like so in the minor area, for example, we’ve been adopted by, uh uh K 12 school and as they come onto our farm, we actually have them create an

01:43:06,500	area that they can explore, defining it by trees and buildings, and then we ask them. How, could you survive on this island? If. It was an island. What’s here to sustain you.

01:43:32,570	And, then hear back from the students and then the next issue for us is to extend that learning as a farmer would do and ask. With the right tools. How, could you enrich this area to help your stick? Help you sustain yourself in this space? So. The students didn’t get the whole range of discovering what’s there and what’s possible As we take a look at agriculture. So.

01:44:02,870	I ask you to please support this, Um, Agricultural Recreation Ordinance and I want to thank the Bismarck planning and zoning for including us and allowing us to be able to do these activities. Thank you. Dan. Thank you for your comments. With that are there others that would care to step to the podium. And I’m not seeing or hearing any so with that I’m going to Well.

01:44:29,730	There is a public hearing with that Comm.. This is a zoning ordinance, Text amendment and staff recommendation is to approve what are your wishes? Comm. Bittner. We have a motion to approve from Comm. Bittner. Second. We have a second from Comm. wagon wagon. With that Comm. is any additional discussion. Comm.

01:44:58,530	Zan is going to jump in first. So. This approval is a as as it’s written, or can we add some of the comments that we heard here tonight? To to the, uh, to do that, like verbiage. Maybe separation, that type of thing.

01:45:23,670	You not you would need a new motion for that, Uh, commissioners so I wouldn’t be opposed to changing the motion. If. There was something that we knew that was better. I. I understand that, um, using the words egg or tourism might be Preferable to one person versus another, Um, don and Renee seem to be pretty comfortable with the egg, agriculture, recreation, but Recreations like boating or something? Um

01:45:49,800	You know if it would help. I could change the motion to to something that You guys would find more. Palatable. You want to make some changes? Some of the comments that we received here today. That’s Then. Maybe. We would delay it until some of it up and get rid of I.

01:46:14,270	I’m Gonna withdraw my motion to approve a motion and second is withdraw. And Now that makes sense to me that, um, with respect to Sarah, um and and they I know we’ve been working together with them as well on the county ordinance, and we want it to be real similar, anyway. So. Um I.

01:46:33,200	Don’t think we’re ready for Ours to be finalized either. And if I don’t think it will hurt Don and Renee any to take a little bit more time to do it because, quite frankly, who’s gonna complain about what they do? Um, Yeah? No, they honestly they they are They really are the model for what you would wanna you’d wanna see if something

01:46:57,070	like that. Oh? Yeah? Yeah. That’s Oh, yeah. So I mean I can’t hardly say enough about him and Um, but as long as it doesn’t hurt them. I. Don’t see any problem with doing a little more work on it. OK Thank you Comm. Comm. field.

01:47:19,430	I like the, uh I like the whole program, But I don’t like that. You have to get conditional use permits to have a pumpkin. I mean, if you went out and told the wheat farmers they had to get conditional use permit because they’re within a quarter mile of somebody. It’d be ridiculous. So, especially when you’re trying to tout education. Why.

01:47:34,600	Do. We want to drive costs into it? And create more rules that nobody’s gonna oversee anyway. I mean I every time I go by a development I count the number of dead trees because nobody ever goes back Once they tell them they have to do Boulevard. So in this case is when it’s agricultural or farming.

01:47:56,330	I don’t think that we really have a right to interfere. Is my gut feeling. So. They can write whatever and I will vote for it, But I don’t agree. With trying to Adify a farm. You know I don’t care how many alpacas they have. I Don’t, and I’m only two houses from you.

01:48:18,300	I’m on the hill on Apple Creek so I can see you and Brian’s house from mine. But it doesn’t affect if it doesn’t have physically affect somebody and happen to have 70 acres. That doesn’t make sense. So by putting that in there if somebody owned an 80 they put that arena right in the middle.

01:48:36,500	They don’t have a neighbor within a quarter mile to ask. So why even have it in the ordinance? Because there’s no one that can live inside of their property that could get offended so not to make this a ma mathematical or map equation.

01:48:58,130	A lot of it just seems like interference and control, which I disagree with controlling people. Thank you Comm. field commissioners Comm. Larson. Thank you Mr chair my questions for Jenny with regard to, including the pumpkin patch and the hay rides in the agricultural manger. What what The rationale was for that. Sure. Thank you Comm. Larson.

01:49:24,930	Um I guess the pumpkin patch that we have in our community right now functions as more of an event space from there are thousands of people that that go there There are impacts traffic light noise to adjacent property owners, and that’s why we felt it was important to include them in the major, Um hayrides, hay rides If if Renee and don wanna do a hay ride for

01:49:43,270	their grandchildren, That’s one thing if you’re doing a hay ride and you end up having events afterwards, if it’s a corporate event, and you are doing hayrides, or you’re having hay rides, and there’s a wedding, you Your accessory structure.

01:50:03,330	What, have you that turns more into an event that turns more into additional traffic, additional noise to adjacent property owners, Um as well as additional people in buildings that may or may not be co compliant. We’re concerned about life safety as well as the impacts to the neighborhood. Comm. does that. Answer your question? Yeah. Thank you I.

01:50:26,270	Guess my feedback on that would be it Sounds like the trigger is more the amount of people there versus the activity. And. That’s My concern point is that Some of those activities would what’s being described is hayrides but also in connection with a larger event or pumpkin patch, because we know the pumpkin patch we know here we think of it as a very, very large thing, which it is when we talk about

01:50:47,330	Papa’s pumpkin patch, which is also amazing, Um, but it can be very different than someone else’s pumpkin patch where you can have little. You know you have kids, and it’s a smaller event. So. I. Guess. That’s a concern area for me. That.

01:51:10,700	We’re putting this around types of activities versus a threshold of the people in that description, the threshold of the amount of people Thank you Comm. Larson Comm. Johnson. You Yeah, a quick question or comment, But do you Agriculture recreation miner would not require special use permit.

01:51:33,600	Is that right, Mr Johnson commissioners, the agricultural recreation miner would be permitted with no special use movement the number of its per year would not be monitored. Or you could do as many as you wanted multiple times a week, OK? Yeah I.

01:51:51,530	I think the questions and comments that we got from the the Citizens here today really illustrate why especially use permit might be or might be beneficial because you have One aspect you don’t want to have to deal with it if if you want to do it if you’re a property owner, But, then you have adjacent owners that are going to be very Interested if you’re going to hold more events and more weddings and you want to give them an opportunity to chime in on those I.

01:52:05,530	I think this conversation is kind of proven that And. It’s you you get. It’s a very tough task to write a ordinance that’s going to It’s not going to satisfy everyone and every Every need and I think what they’ve laid out is is a a good middle ground that’s going to allow people that are doing very relatively minor events on

01:52:24,430	their farm to do that, by right. If. You want to do something more larger that will have more of an impact on the area and the neighbors. You need a special use permit to get input for that from that. And.

01:52:40,330	Then if you’re going to be doing something even more significant than that, you’re going to be Pursuing a a pud, um, because it’s gonna have even more Impact on the neighbors and the infrastructure around that, so I I understand the comments and and you want to write something that’s just perfect. And. We’ll alleviate everyone’s concerns, but it’s it’s going to be very challenging to do that. And. I think this provides a structure.

01:53:00,430	To still provide, uh opportunities. Well not to get out of So that’s my comment. Thank you, Comm. Johnson. Commissioners additional comments. Comm. Shell.

01:53:27,870	Any in any of the stakeholder discussions was a limit for the the minor in terms of the number of people or or I guess, Yeah, in terms of the number of people considered as as a criteria that would be incorporated into that and not specific on what you’re doing, But just how many people are on on the site at at any given time. Comm.

01:53:45,070	shall just so I understand the question the number of people that could go to a a minor or an educational type of event was that discussed. I guess in in particular, more just to Um Comm.. Larson’s Point earlier on Doesn’t really matter what the thing is, it’s probably if if it’s more than X number of people, that’s when it might be a concern, So whether or not they’re there for a hayride or

01:54:01,170	an educational tour of the farm. Does. It matter if it’s only 10 people 1530 what? What’s that magic number that we’d say. Hey, this is probably the point at which it’s regardless of the activity. It’s now moved into a more impactful or or potential for it to be impactful to others.

01:54:16,330	Besides just the landowners Sure, um, the the Stakeholder group again, they discuss the educational component and felt that that wouldn’t be, um Much of a concern and and really wanted to promote agriculture and agriculture. Uh, education.

01:54:41,470	We discussed at length and and I Don’t wanna say struggled, but we definitely debated the number of of occupants or the number number of people that could attend the meeting or Excuse me the meeting. We’re we’re space or the agriculture, recreation. We did land on 200. I don’t know if if this board would like us to increase that we can certainly like do that if Is is a motion to do that or decrease it.

01:55:01,370	Um, we really felt that keeping in line with maybe Morton County and our nearest neighbor, right, Um Just, so there wasn’t such a difference, And? I don’t know if burly County perhaps Comm. bitner. You could let us know if there is a limit on the number of folks in that ordinance.

01:55:21,530	Yeah, to answer that we we’re proposing that that there would be a limit in Beley County as well in that ordinance, but Because. My. Only question is if if you guys are tolerating one more meeting, and, uh, maybe Eugenie and and Renee and CEC sit down and kind of talk about those minor changes because it doesn’t sound like anybody has a problem with the

01:55:39,730	With the overall idea. Just some minor Tina her words wordsmithing. Um And then and then bring it back. I think that would So. It was. Is that a motion? Somehow, if you can get one out of it. Go ahead. Comm. Zan. If. We pursue this about another meeting. Which I.

01:56:05,330	I guess I was looking at I would also entertain. Maybe taking the two and separating them like was suggested. It seems like the two that are together right now we’re talking about like cucumbers and bowling pins. You know they’re not the same Do we does. Does Bismarck have a commercial. Writing arena. Law or Ruling.

01:56:29,000	I know, Burly County does because I’ve been affected by it. But Could it? Could we pattern something off of burly Coney and combine commercial writing arenas with the private ones so that it different I like how it’s written for the private ones, but There’s I don’t see them together as a as a It’s kind of confusing.

01:56:52,270	Sure I could try to attempt to address Comm. Zen’s question We do Yes. We do have a commercial recreational use group? Um, that Probably would allow for the commercial writing stable would fit into that use group. We. Don’t. The. The size limitation would be dependent on the zoning district.

01:57:15,230	It would be in, um and, uh what the constraints of the the size of the property, which would limit it in the light coverage associated with it, so that would probably dictate more of the commercial writing stable size piece. Um, so maybe there’s a question to to your question. So the two things that Ah I, I think you’re ask.

01:57:34,100	To support us or to in this ordinance that you’re asking to separate would be the the commercial writing stable piece. Consider that separately or I’m sorry. The. Private riding stable piece Separate. Consider that separately from the Agra, cultural recreational, uh, uses that that are being proposed.

01:57:55,400	And if I think the private right in arenas if that could be incorporated with You know a corporate or not a corporate but a commercial and a private. Because they are. They are different. But they could be In. That same vein as far as, um Talking about Comm.. Is that just just so so I’m clear.

01:58:19,370	Um Because it takes so long to do an ordinance we had someone ask for the agriculture, recreation use, and then we also had someone ask for a larger private, private riding stable at the same time, so we decided to lump them together because every time we go into the zoning ordinance it it takes a long time. You’re gonna see us A number of months.

01:58:35,930	Um, if the gentleman who wants the private writing arena Decide someday that he also wants to hold events. He would be eligible or allowed to apply for a special use permit to have the agriculture, agriculture, recreation Major use so he then could have large events there weddings those types of things, but at this point all he wants is a private

01:59:00,600	writing stable for his kiddos to write English and do barrel racing. Chair if I may add one thing as well, Um, if it’s if it wasn’t clear already in the ordinance, and in the end of the day, these will exist in different parts of our code of ordinances.

01:59:21,800	It’s just as Jenny mentioned for expediency, we decided to include them in one package for you, but it it they are separate in the ordinance itself. Comm. Zent Does that address your I think so. It’s but they are You know, writing arenas are the same and Agricultural tourism is is the same.

01:59:49,530	I mean it’s different, so But if they’re separate in the ordinances, that’s good, so OK? Thank you. OK so a motion to continue this to the next meeting. Or send it back for revisions. Whatever was Yeah, we’ll add that to it. OK? Because. I think it’s important that Really? It seems to me that only three people really need to be in on that meeting.

02:00:11,930	J and Renee and Sarah. You know if they evidently have been the ones working the hardest on that. And bring it back to the table. OK? So we have a motion on the table from Comm. Bettner. Second. We have a 2nd 2nd from Comm. zent any additional discussion. All right? Not seeing or hearing any Sarah.

02:00:34,530	Please call roll. Comm. zent. Yes Comm.? Yes. Yes. Mr Smith. Yes. Miss Michelle? Yes. Mr Lukins. Yes Comm. Larson? Yes Comm. Johnson? Yes Comm. field. Yes Comm. Bittner Yes and chair schwartz.

02:01:10,230	Yes motion is approved with then we’re going to move on to other business this evening, which is item on number eight, and it is going to be an update by daniel on our home occupations, Uh, Zoning Ordinance Text Amendment. Good evening chair Schwartz playing a zoning commission. Uh, so as the chair mentioned, this is on other business. It’s not on a regular agenda.

02:01:28,330	So I’m here tonight just to really announce and invite you to a special meeting to be held on the home occupation ordinance, So it is scheduled for, uh may 15th at 5 P.m. your usual time usual day of the week. I will be held in this room for those watching on TV or online. Uh, this is 221 North Fifth Street, the City County office building the base. Of that building.

02:01:49,200	So we did meet with the Stakeholder group, and we have met a number of times. As you may expect there are a variety of opinions evident in this topic. Uh, as a reminder we’re talking about business activity and residential areas. Uh, both in the city, and, uh, the ETA we know that we need to treat them differently.

02:02:07,200	Uh, and we’re looking for the criteria for what’s too far. What’s allowable What’s by right or with a special use permit in residential areas. It’s a really, It’s a very important topic. It’s been in origins for decades. However, we know this does need to be reviewed.

02:02:24,930	So we do feel and the stakeholder group felt that it’s important to really hear from the public directly, uh, through its own venue. Uh, we are optimistic that we’ll have a number of people here. Uh, for this meeting. It’s already being promoted. However. The city will also do a press release to announce this meeting. We will on May 1st issue a draft proposed draft.

02:02:45,200	There is a draft already out there In January, However, there have been a Number of changes as a result of the stakeholder meetings, so we were re release a new draft on May 1st and some background information on this for the public.

02:03:01,730	That’ll give you two weeks, which is a little more than we usually have for packets, but it’ll give some time to hopefully digest this, uh, for you, and for the public in time for that meeting. Now. Uh, the memo that I did include in your packet, uh, did suggest, uh, holding this as a public hearing in May, Uh 22nd.

02:03:19,070	So, your next meeting? Uh, I do have a question for you and and and we’re open to how you would like to proceed with this, but it may be too soon. So if we do hold the the actual legal public hearing on this on May 22nd we would need to commit to that prior to this meeting on May 15th Legal ad purposes.

02:03:39,770	Uh, which we could do, Uh, we would just be committed to that meeting and then staff would react to the public. Hear the public comments on May 15th and make adjustments for your May 22nd meeting. However, you may wish to have a little more time.

02:03:58,870	Uh and we’d be certainly open to moving that to June 26th, which would allow a little extra time to digest what you’ve what you hear in May 15th and then, uh, react and and have time to to take action. If you wish. Um And June 26, So two options for presenting to you and open to guidance on that. So Comm. is if Comm.

02:04:20,370	shall Daniel for for clarification, will there need to be a new consideration of this ordinance or the consideration already done, And it’s just now a new public hearing for the The act. So Comm. shall so our understanding is that it would be because it was considered, uh we could advertise the public hearing again.

02:04:39,570	Um, so if that unless you would wish to have a new consideration that we understand that legally, we would meet our consideration requirement already. Thank you Comm. Shall commissioners. Additional questions. Comm. field So The.

02:05:02,530	Last time you guys were talking about a major and a minor business activity in the ETA, and we just spent a lot of time figuring out that we want to siphon people out to their farm to see everything. But from what you which that is a business. But with your other rules. You’re limiting deliveries You’re limiting. Size of vehicles. They couldn’t have a school bus at their property. Under your weight limits. Depending on whether it’s major or minor. Maybe excluded in both cases. So.

02:05:31,300	There is an inherently a problem that people in the ETA have. I mean we love you guys in Bismarck, But we like you at the city limit sign. We? We don’t need you in the ETA. That’s where we get into into a beef is everybody likes what they’re doing, But.

02:05:52,600	We’re we’re already talking about having another meeting to cripple what they’re doing. Does that make sense to you. So I’m gonna talk. I’m gonna jump in here because I’ve sat in the stakeholder meetings, and I can assure you that as many people that want the free reign of business to do whatever they want on their lot.

02:06:14,470	There is an equal number who want to oppose that. So. We need to. We’re trying to find Something that works for everyone the best and right now the ordinance as it’s drafted, is far more restrictive than what is being proposed and discussed and hopefully what will land on So as much as I can appreciate the comments

02:06:35,970	from Comm. Field, We need to be respectful for those individuals who also live in the ETA who are very much opposed to heavy traffic and heavy use, or as this as they determine it may not be heavy to me may not be heavy to you, but those neighbors are determining it to be heavy. So.

02:06:54,130	Let’s Let’s Let. The process roll here. I think the Stakeholder group has made a lot of progress. But. They’re at a crossroads and they really want to hear from a larger group of people other than the seven or eight people around the table. And.

02:07:12,670	I would recommend that we probably do not try to have our formal Final hearing on this until June, because I think there’s gonna be some digestion that’s going to have to occur after May 15th Thank you Comm. Schmitz Comm. fields. Thank you for your comments. Um, commissioners. Additional comments. What are your thoughts regarding the, uh The dates on meetings. I think I Think to be fair to everybody.

02:07:37,800	We should Go do it in June or Decision making. Meeting. Regular meeting. It’s only two days after that, so that’s Way too fast. OK thank you and I tend to agree.

02:07:59,900	I think there’s gonna be a lot of information that is going to, uh, come into this group and I think it’ll be good to have a little bit of time to, uh, to think about it. And, uh, And. Then In the end it’ll it would It’ll allow us to do is on in the June meeting. We don’t need to have a public hearing. Then.

02:08:19,930	We can go ahead and commence with our discussion and, uh, decide what we’re going to do now would be my my thoughts on the, uh, on the fifth meeting that’s scheduled for the 15th is I. We will have a public hearing. I won’t ask the question. So. In other words, we’re just doing it for Information purposes. Uh, Gather information. And. Hopefully.

02:08:43,330	We can all agree that that’s how we would like to do things. Um and then reserve reserve our discussions until the June meeting. OK chair If I Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Comm. Bittner. So. We’re gonna have a meeting on the on May 15th. And. Then. There’s a regularly scheduled Meeting. On the 22nd. I believe on the 22nd.

02:09:07,270	Well. I. Guess I’m kind of struggling with why do we need two meetings? Over the same. We’re not gonna make the decision that either the 15 or 20. So. I think the problem comes with communicating. With providing public notice. Is that correct, Daniel? Sure.

02:09:33,070	So, So, Maybe just 22 points the we will still need to hold a public hearing with the decision. Um, for legal purposes. That is when we advertise, and so, uh, that would still need to occur if if it’s June 26th, which I’m I’m hearing, we would advertise for that day. Uh, the the purpose of the special meeting is to really have a venue dedicated only to this topic.

02:09:50,370	We do know that there are a number of people in the community who are interested in this and and who are stakeholders have told us they would like to have this as an opportunity. So.

02:10:05,230	It gives an option option for them to come and make their case and then do it in a in a way that it’s maybe less. Um, there’s less urgency to it because no decision is being made at that time, and then you all have time to digest that a little more carefully before making a decision. So, daniel, if I understand you correctly, then there would still be a public hearing at the June meeting. That is correct.

02:10:22,130	We would still have to have a public hearing before any action is taken. OK? Comm. additional thoughts. Thank you K? Um with that? I think we probably have some, uh Some paperwork that we need to do. Just in that, uh, we’ve continued this item for what? Two months now, two meetings. I’m wondering, Um Ben.

02:10:58,470	Is it still the intent to withdraw this item. Right that that would that would be a a recommendation we would need to read. Advertise this, Uh Ordinance proposed ordinance, regardless because it will likely be involving more sections of the ordinance than were originally advertised for, based on some of these discussions that have evolved and and modified the the, uh,

02:11:24,130	the ordinance so we would need to a re avert this regardless, uh for, uh, just because we need to notice those additional sections of of the ordinance, so our recommendation would be to withdraw this at this this particular ordinance at this time, OK? You. That commissioners. I’ll ask what your wishes are.

02:11:43,330	Then, Um, I’d be looking for a motion to accept the withdrawal. Moved. We have a motion from Comm. Bittner. But. He had a commission he who had a mission. I withdrew it withdrew their second motion, OK? We had a second from Comm. Wan. So. This is a motion to withdraw. The item for now. OK without any additional discussion.

02:12:10,670	Sarah, please call roll. Comm. johnson? Yes. Comm. Larson? Yes. Comm. loins. Yes, yes. Comm. Schmitz. Yes. Mr Siva? Yes. Mr Morgan. Yes, Comm.? Yes. Comm. Bittner. Yes. Comm. field. Yes. Their shorts. Yes. The motion is approved and and commissioners, I. Guess, Um depending upon how you feel about it, Uh, I.

02:12:56,570	I fully expect there’s going to be a number of people that come to the, uh 15th. The May 15th meeting to discuss both small, um in businesses that are run out of homes within Bismarck, as well as businesses in the ETA and what I’d like to do is I. Wanna make sure that everybody has an To speak to it.

02:13:18,070	So. If we have a room full of people What I would intend to do would be to limit comments to five minutes. If. You’re amenable to that. Yeah. Comm. Bittner. You’ve got some experience in that. It, I.

02:13:41,330	I think that would be an admirable goal, you know, and and sometimes You know some sometimes we actually get testimony from somebody who, um Has, more broad knowledge that Relates to it, for example, and this wouldn’t be one. But. You know you got an engineer that comes in and is talking about. Some big plan. So. Sometimes. It’s It’s not ideal to cut it off. You know we want to say things like, you know. If.

02:14:02,800	What you’re about to say has already been said, you know, we we get it kind of Yeah. We try to kind of limit it without being too overly restrictive because I don’t want people to think that we don’t want to hear, you know, absolutely we we want to. So OK. Well, we’ll keep that in mind.

02:14:23,000	All right. The the only other Yeah. The. Only other thing that I have in this probably falls under, uh other is that, uh, Lauren has informed us that we’re looking at, uh, this year is our 100 year anniversary of planning and zoning in Bismarck.

02:14:47,000	And, uh, she thinks and I tend to agree that it would be good I a good idea to get a picture of everybody, so it would be wonderful if either at the May Or June meeting if we can all come together I know I’m. I’m not gonna ask that that that may be above and beyond. But. Uh uh.

02:15:09,500	We, uh, we would have an opportunity where we could all have a a picture together. That would be great. So. If if folks can, uh, make it to the meeting, and and, uh, not have to do it, uh, online that would be wonderful. Just just something to keep in mind for the next, uh, for our next meeting. All. Right.

02:15:29,330	Thank you and with that, I think there’s nothing else on my list this evening. If there is nothing on yours. Um, I’m going to adjourn the meeting. Our next regular meeting data is scheduled for May 22nd the regular meeting and we will be meeting on. Uh, may 15th Thank