00:00:08,230	I would like to welcome everyone here in the, uh In the, uh Baker meeting room, Comm. staff and those meeting online were listening online to this meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission.

00:00:31,370	Today is June 26th, and it is five o’clock or shortly thereafter, So with that I’m gonna call the meeting to order And with that I’m gonna ask Sarah to please call roll. Comm. Briner. Comm. field. Comm. Johnson, Comm. Larson. Here. Hi, Comm. Wilkins. Here. Comm. shell here. Mayor Schmitz Comm. C. Mr Wang in here. Comm. zent. And share Schwarz. Here. All, right.

00:01:13,930	So with that, uh, what I’d like to do this evening before we launch into our regular agenda was just, uh, share a few few words from the chair here, and I don’t know how familiar everybody is with our With. The, uh, planning and zoning meeting protocol.

00:01:34,830	We’ve gone through a couple of very long meetings prior to this and the way things look tonight, it looks like it could be another, uh, another long one. So with that I wanted to just visit Or or or share with you a minute. Um, how our meetings proceed. Now.

00:01:54,000	We do have something that we call our procedure, meeting procedure and protocol and it is Something that is included with our packet, and it had been my intent to get it into everybody’s hands this evening, but we weren’t able to do that. It is a It is a protocol that we have used.

00:02:16,930	For as long as I can remember, and I’ve been sitting on this commission for, uh, in excess of 12 years, So I’ve I’ve sat with, uh, four different mayors and, uh, lots of different commissioners here, but it has always been the consistent method for how we run our meetings here with planning and zoning and, uh, the co the construct of the meeting, for the most part is I introduce an agenda item. And. Uh, once That agenda item is introduced.

00:02:40,930	We will have a member of staff come up and provide a staff report. On the agenda item. Now. That Staff report is usually based on information that staff has put together for the agenda item most often with uh uh, in fact, always within the rule of ordinances and, uh Rules are in place that must be followed for planning and zoning processes.

00:03:12,430	At, the end of the report, usually staff will make a recommendation. And. It is purely that a recommendation based on the the, uh uh, facts that are presented. And once that happens what we do or what I do is I open a public hearing. Now, once I open a public hearing. That’s an opportunity for the requester.

00:03:36,970	To come up and speak. And then also for following that anybody else that has an opinion or thoughts or anything like that, or even questions that they might have for the commission? Uh, regarding the agenda item that is being presented? So With that in mind once the public hearing is opened, and we go through that process, and

00:04:05,800	everybody has an an opportunity to speak, and it is my intent that anybody that has anything that they would like to say, uh, regarding the agenda item that they step up to the podium, whether it’s um um they agree. They disagree or anything in between. So.

00:04:28,730	It is something that this commission Would like to hear about. Once we have everybody has had an opportunity to speak. Speak. I close the public hearing. And during the public hearing. What needs to happen is you speak? And we listen. And. We. Hear what you have to say.

00:04:55,530	And, uh, We may ask you questions to clarify Whatever point you are that you’re making So Please be prepared when you come to the podium to not only voice your thoughts But be prepared. If a Comm. should ask you a question.

00:05:15,270	Now on the flip side of that, if you ask a question To the commission and that’s what you need to do whenever you step up to that podium, you need to be addressing the commission. And if you have a question that needs to be answered, you ask at first to the commission. And if the commission can answer it, we will do that. If, not we will ask staff to address it. And Stra staff can either Immediately speak to it.

00:05:38,730	Or if they need to do some research. What they can do is in their follow up. Uh, responses. Um, because I give them an opportunity to provide any additional information after the public hearing is closed. But. The. Important thing is during the public hearing. We as commissioners listen.

00:06:01,300	We may ask some questions and what we do then is we save any any opinions that we may have of our own or any discussion between commissioners until after the public hearing is closed? So just to give you an idea of how that works. Now, once, um Once. A public hearing is closed after everybody has had a chance to speak.

00:06:24,230	I’ll ask staff for their last remarks. If. There are any questions They want to answer any additional information they want to provide. It’s their opportunity to do that. Once that has taken place. Then. The Final step is the Comm. will discuss The, uh The topic. The agenda item so We will kick it back and forth. Uh, I’m sure.

00:06:52,630	Every every, uh Comm. has opinions that they are are Thoughts that they gather during the public hearing. Uh and we talk about that and hopefully at some point, uh, I will ask the question whether or not um How. We want to address the agenda item? And commissioners will have an opportunity to make a motion.

00:07:19,670	To second that motion. Any additional discussion. And. Then. We will render a decision. Now? No, that, um The end result after we vote is again a recommendation. We make a recommendation to the City Commission as to how we feel about the agenda item. So, uh, understand that.

00:07:47,400	In my mind and you don’t have you don’t have a copy of the protocol in hand right now. But the single biggest item in my mind is item number seven in the list and all, um I’ll read that to you. Because. It says. Please be respectful of planning and zoning commissioners. Staff and others speaking on the request.

00:08:14,100	Personal attacks against the applicant or others clapping, cheering or booing speakers is not acceptable. Staff and the applicant will only respond to questions and that are that come through the commission. Now. I think In my mind the secret of success to this meeting is that we are all very respectful of each other. The people that are coming to the podium.

00:08:39,200	The folks that are sitting up here at the table that will be discussing the the agenda item and, uh, the staff that is providing information. So, um Hopefully, that gives you at least a little bit of an idea of how we’ve operated over the years. How I would like to operate now and run this meeting.

00:09:03,730	So with that, um, with that information in mind, What I’d like to do is proceed with this evening’s meeting. If we’re all ready to go. And chair. Uh, I will note that there are some copies of just the agenda with those protocols. Now on the back of the back of the room. All, right. Thank you, Ben. So. If.

00:09:19,200	You’re interested in the, uh, process. Please feel free to get up and grab a copy of the agenda and the protocol that goes with it. I think it’s uh, It’s an easy read, but it it gives you an idea of how we and I like to proceed with our meetings here at planning and zoning.

00:09:40,530	So with that the, um First item. First two items on our agenda are to consider first of all the approval of minutes from the May 22nd 2024 meeting and, uh Commissioners. What are your wishes? Move to a group. We have a motion to approve from Comm. Bittner, a second from Comm. Wang wagon.

00:10:05,270	Is there any discussion? I’m not seeing or hearing any Sarah, Would you please call roll. Comm. wangen. Yes. Comm. field? Yes. Comm. Johnson? Yes. Comm. Larson. Yes. Listen, Lukins. Yes. There’s Michelle. Yes, Comm. Schmitz. Yes. Comm. Bitner and chair shorts. Yes. A motion is approved with that.

00:10:37,670	We move on to the second item, which is consider considering the approval of the minutes from our May 15 special meeting commissioners. What are your wishes? Motion to We have a motion to approve from Comm. Bitner. I can And. Who did they get the second from Mike Schmidt, Mr Schmitz. Thank you. Without any additional discussion. And. I’m not saying or hearing any Sarah.

00:11:08,600	Please call roll. Mr Wang and Yes. Comm. field. Yes Comm. Johnson. Yes, Comm. Larson. Yes, Comm. Lukins. Yes, Comm., shall yes. Comm. Schmitz. Yes. Mr Bitner? Yes and your shorts? Yes motion is approved with that. We’ll move on to our consent agenda this evening, and we only have one item.

00:11:38,070	In our consent agenda, which is, um A Zoning Map Amendment Hay Creek Township section 25 Auditors lot S Dash three and, uh, staff recommendation is to schedule a hearing commissioners. What are your wishes? Move to schedule a hearing. Thank you Comm. wagon. We have a motion and the second from Comm. Bittner. Did. I. Get that right Thank you.

00:12:08,500	Without any discussion commissioners. And. I’m not hearing any So Sarah, please call Roll Comm. field. Yes. Comm. Johnson won Yes, Comm. Larson. Yes, Comm. Lukins. Yes Comm. shall Yes, Comm.. Yes Comm. Bitner answers. Yes. A motion is approved with that. We move on to our regular agenda this evening.

00:12:42,130	The first item on our regular agenda is home occupations, and I believe Daniel is going to provide us with staff report. Thank you Good evening. Schwartz SP medication. Am. I on now. Great. OK So. Good evening playing zoning commission, uh, the community Development department requests Amendments to sections 14 section 14-0206 or leave the home occupations and there are nine other sections in the ordinance that

00:13:04,070	are also would also be amended for consistency. Purposes, uh, related to this ordinance change, so Bismarck has had regulations on home occupations since 1953. They haven’t really changed a whole lot in the last 60 years, so the they are currently And, all zoning districts up to 25% of the residents are not allowed an accessory buildings.

00:13:25,970	Ah, you’re allowed to have one additional, uh, worker beyond the occupants of the home and there are a number of other requirements that are in place today. So.

00:13:44,700	We are proposing to change that and to become more open to home occupations in every respect, Uh and so I’ll go over some of the changes that we are proposing. Uh, burle Kennedy does have a similar ordinance to our own our own as well, Uh, and it’s slightly more restrictive in in some ways what it is, It is fairly similar, so the home occupation is really any business or trade activity.

00:14:02,930	Anyone working from home essentially, uh as an accessory use to a principal use residential use of of the dwelling. Is for any economic gain. It does not count agriculture or renting your home out or anything like that, but it’s a business space out of the home. So the, um We did call for changes in our comprehensive plan.

00:14:21,330	Uh, in the last year that was released as together 2045 to this home occupation or as we know it, we know it is dated. The world has changed in the last 60 years, Uh, remote work has become far more prevalent than it was at the time. We know that many businesses have opened out of homes from Amazon to the local handyman.

00:14:38,600	And that has, uh, that have run successfully, and that has not become an issue in our community and many others, and so Especially with COVID-19 and the rise of even greater remote work.

00:14:57,730	Many other communities, including our own are re evaluating home occupations, and they showing a little more openness or a lot more openness to, uh, businesses operating residential areas. The, Um so I should say that our plan is the reason we are making these changes and it was called out specifically in that plan. Uh, the City Commission did ask us in August to expedite this process. Based on some complaints we had received and our response to those complaints.

00:15:15,400	It was always in our plan and by state law, we can only change your ordinance on the basis of a comprehensive plan. We are not permitted to react to specific circumstances. That must be comprehensive. So, that is, That’s what we’re doing. The, um So. Uh, we knew this was going to be a big change.

00:15:30,870	And so we did want to take some time to listen to folks throughout the community. Uh, we felt we had two different stakeholder groups that were convened the first met three times. The, Second one met four times. Uh, the second one was just roll. Uh, business owners and residences.

00:15:47,670	Uh and we discussed it with them for that those unique issues in in rural areas. Uh, we did convene it. We had a community survey. We had 245 people respond to that survey. A report of that is is in the packet. Uh, we had a special meeting last month that we had a lot of great testimony.

00:16:02,330	A lot of people with first inexperience with home occupations. Uh And so we we listened and took notes of that very carefully and you will see some of the changes as a result of that meeting from from last month. Uh, we’ve discussed this in three separate occasions with the Bismarck and Home Builders association and and quarterly meetings with with that group. Uh, so we did.

00:16:17,270	We knew that we needed to hear from the community and we feel like we’ve we’ve incorporated a lot of those responses into the ordinance. We know they’re We heard different, different, um, points of view, and we really tried to balance a lot of the things that we did here.

00:16:33,800	Uh, so the audience does apply to all 80,000 of the residents of our jurisdiction. Give or take a few so it it is very comprehensive, all residential zoning districts. Uh, although we knew that we needed to divide into separate categories, uh urban and rural areas we heard from many people just have different needs different mentalities, and we need to treat differently in this order.

00:16:51,700	And, so the zoning districts are divided by Are are are five and a are treated for the purpose of home occupation is rural and everything else is treated as urban R five R 10 so forth. Uh, I should make it clear that it’s not purely divided by the city limits line.

00:17:09,530	There are urban zoning districts in rural areas and and vice versa to some degree, But. It’s based really on the character of that neighborhood and how how it is zoned.

00:17:26,670	Now the way this sort is structured is, uh, there are minor home occupations, major home occupations, and then it is possible to have home occupation permitted beyond a major home occupation. Ah, but the type of zoning district you’re in will dictate your process. So. A minor home occupation will be allowed by right everywhere. So no permits necessary. You don’t need to talk to anybody from the city or anyone else. You can just do it. The. Major.

00:17:43,730	Home occupations are ones that may have an impact on the neighbors, Uh, depending on certain circumstances, so when they need a case by case evaluation in the city, uh but however, in rural areas, they’re still permitted by right. Uh, there’s no space and we feel like the impact would be lesser in the rural areas so they would not need any special permission.

00:18:03,800	Um, a and outside of the major, so if they can’t meet any of the terms of the major, uh, it is still possible to be permitted as home occupation. In rural areas with a special use permit. Uh what is a special use permit.

00:18:19,930	It’s essentially a public hearing held with this body, The Planning zoning Commission, uh, takes approximately 30 days or so, and neighbors are invited to discuss this in any special conditions can be placed on that home occupation, So we get a chance to look at it in more detail and figure out if it will have an impact or not on the neighborhood. So.

00:18:35,400	That being said, Um, I’ll quickly go through some of the specifics, um that this or deals with and some changes that we’ve made since last month. Uh, the first one is the number of employees that are permitted. Uh, previously we had stated zero in the minor and one in the major.

00:18:52,130	Uh, we have changed that to one in the minor and three in the major. This is in addition to anyone who may live in the home, So, uh, you can have an outside external employee, uh, in in all cases, at least one up to three. The.

00:19:08,200	Um, the second one is the amount of S uh, the area of the dwelling that can be taken up. Um, we feel like because this is ancillary to the residential use. It is important to keep 50% as a number in there so it doesn’t become the primary use. Uh, but we would allow that in both minor and major.

00:19:26,430	There is some language in here stating you can’t remove your kitchen and your bathrooms and really fundamentally change the character of the dwelling. He has to still remain a dwelling. Uh, but you can occupy at the half of it with the home occupation or the entirety of That rebuilding. I should add the, um Let’s see the next change, it would be outdoor storage. So. Previously. We had, uh um Actually.

00:19:43,170	Originally there would be no outdoor storage allowed, And. That is our current case in our ordinance. Uh, this would allow outdoor storage in the major home occupations, uh, up to 5% of the law.

00:19:59,470	Um, if you wanna switch to the next slide, and we’ll we’ll see what that might look like in a typical rural residential lot. Uh, so the blue area on this lot is is roughly 5% of a of a of a typical rural residential two. Lot, uh, it must be screened. It can’t be in the front yard so there would be need to be a fence or some sort of vegetative buffer around it.

00:20:15,270	Um, but it would be allowed, uh, you can imagine landscapers, contractors or even storing campers in the winter or anything like that, uh, would be allowed, uh, with the ordinance in the major home occupation. So the, um the next change would be, uh, the appearance.

00:20:35,070	This would simply be the same, uh, has to maintain a residential appearance and in all situations. The, um Uh, noises, odors, vibrations, uh, also the same, um, any nuisances that may happen for neighbors signs so we would allow a sign in all cases, so all home occupations be permitted to sign in the minor. It would need to be attached to the wall in the major.

00:20:57,030	It could be a freestanding sign in the yard. Uh, and if in larger lots you could get a larger sign. Uh, what is three square feet? How? How. Does that look and, um here’s an image of a of a urban And you can. You can imagine.

00:21:12,930	A three square feet is basically a typical political sign that we we saw a lot of in the last few few months so that that’s what it would look like, Um and a in an urban home occupation once again as a major home occupation, the freestanding sign would would be allowed.

00:21:30,100	Um, the next change would be, uh, one visit at a time for minor by appointment. You can think of a A music teacher has students coming in by appointment. Uh, a major would not be limited. In that way.

00:21:43,570	You could have retail you could have Uh, something that would have people passing by coming in on on the on the fly, so that would be allowed in major as long as there’s no undue traffic burden. The, Um the next change would be the time of day. Only daytime visits.

00:22:04,200	Uh so even deliveries customers nobody can be coming at the night in the night time in any in any situation, the Ah So so vehicles So IN, a minor home occupation, you would be allowed up to two vehicles and up to two trailers. Uh, once again, you’re only having one outside employee so you can imagine each employee would have their own truck and trailer if if that’s the business that would be would would would need that. So.

00:22:21,970	The major home occupation would have no limits to the number of vehicles. The, um, the weight of the vehicles is a factor as well. Uh, heavier trucks, uh, would not be allowed in a minor home occupation and Using the commercial driver’s license as that threshold is something that’s pretty easy to to determine.

00:22:41,630	Uh, those are are fairly large trucks of £ 26,000 gross gross weight of a truck would trigger the CD requirements or buses with 16 or more, uh, passengers or some hazardous materials. Uh, but those those trucks would not be allowed in minor but you would be allowed one in in the major, um, home occupation. So in a in a rural area. Uh, you would be allowed one of these trucks.

00:22:59,000	The These images are From, the North Dakota Do OT website of typical trucks that might require a CDL license. Uh, for home occupations Now In. No case may you exceed the weight limits that the city or county may put on a road.

00:23:20,000	Um, at any time of the year, but you may exceed at the CD requirements and major home occupations, so the next change would be hazardous materials, no hazardous materials in any situation, and there are few uses that would not be allowed. Adult uses marijuana dispensaries. So forth would not be allowed as home occupations. So.

00:23:38,900	Those are the the basic requirements of of this, uh, there were a couple of special situations that I wanted to call out. Uh, in home. Child care, uh, is a home occupation. There’s a few cases in which this would, uh, loosen up some of our requirements on child care that is referencing in our comp plan.

00:23:58,470	We do want to encourage more child care and and reduce any barriers to creating these So one change would be that a tenant could run a child. Currently must be a homeowner to run a childcare business. Uh, Secondly, currently you can only do this in a single family home.

00:24:12,400	This would allow you to run a child care in home child care in two family or even in multifamily If. It’s up to five Children, so there are a couple of small changes. Uh, but they they may have an impact on the number of child care operations in our community. Um, another change model homes.

00:24:28,500	Uh, this did come up from the Bismarck made and home builders just to I won’t dwell on this, but just to make it clear, uh, the ordinance explicitly carves out any home that use the model home in a developing subdivision. So that’s perfectly allowed and and there could be an office and storage and and whatever that home builder may may need in the home while they’re while they’re selling out their development.

00:24:45,070	Um, just a couple of other changes just to know I I mentioned we needed to make changes throughout the ordinance because this this shows up in a lot of places, even the purpose of a residential districts, all of them state to prohibit commercial industrial use. And. So we we had to tweak that because we’re we’re not prohibiting it anymore.

00:25:02,600	We’re we’re allowing it in in in many cases, and so we’ve changed it to protect the quiet enjoyment of residential property and a scourge all uses or activities that interfere with or detract from these principal uses of the District to make it clear that we still we still are residential areas.

00:25:17,700	We don’t want to lose sight of that, but we’re allowing more commercial. Uh, we have an accumulation of certain items prohibited section colloquial called the junk ordinance. Um, that will have to change a little bit as well because currently, no commercial equipment is allowed.

00:25:38,130	Uh, on outside of structure, uh, we are allowing outside storage, uh, for home occupations, So we’ve we’ve had to tweak that ordinance a little bit as well. Um, garage sales. Uh, that’s a small But to a year are currently allowed that would be allowed up to four a year based on this, uh and of course, as I mentioned some changes to the sign ordinance as well to allow those home occupation signs. So.

00:25:54,930	Those are the, uh I kind of got into a lot of that a lot of the details. Uh, I’ll say one thing to none of this impacts. AD a requirements. Um, accessibility requirements apply, regardless of local zoning. So.

00:26:12,600	Anyone, who’s running a business that’s a public accommodation, uh, is obligated by federal law to apply to that so we we really need to make that clear in this. Um this also has, of course, no effect on private covenant. Many of the covenants in our community don’t allow any home occupations with no exceptions at all. So. Those are not affected in any way by this.

00:26:30,970	We have no jurisdiction over private contracts that individual homeowners may have with each other. Uh, so staff is recommending approval of this ordinance. We I, I do have to express some reservations we have. I mean I’m. We’re obviously presenting this to you, But. We’re we’re a little cautious about this in general.

00:26:48,930	And and I speak not just for myself but others in in in our in the in the city as well, Uh, this is a a pretty large change, and I know traditionally, we’ve we’ve made a lot of Small changes and we see how it goes and make another small change. And. This is a This is a big change.

00:27:04,000	Um, However, we’ve always listened to our pointed elected officials, and that’s our job is to write to your and is not to create the values not to direct anything. Uh And so we’ve certainly heard that this is a change that is desired in our community.

00:27:19,270	Uh and so we’ve written it, uh, to reflect that, uh, it is, It’s not something any other communities that we are aware of are doing in our region. The City of Seattle has made some changes to home occupation. That are open as well, but only within the last year. A lot of people are looking at them to see what happens. Uh, so it’s not entirely clear how this will play out.

00:27:34,730	Uh, we’ll probably see more businesses opening in residential areas, and we may see more complaints, but many of those businesses will be will be allowed and and will be meeting the the laws that that would be passed. So. That’s just something to be aware of. This is there is some risk involved in in this ordinance.

00:27:52,900	Uh, changing it back will be difficult because As if a business is opening with under the letter of the law if they were to if we were to change the law again, they would still remain as a non conforming use, So I just want to be clear about about about that. So.

00:28:09,030	We are recommending approval has staff of and manage the amendments to section 14-203 14-306 14-3 0.107 14-4 a 1 14-401 0.1 14-4 Dash 3 14-4 Dash 6 14-4 Dash 7 14-4 Dash 17 and 14-5 Dash 5.1 of the Bismarck code of ordinances related to home occupations. I can attempt to answer any questions. Yes. Comm. questions for Daniel. Comm.

00:28:42,830	Johnson, daniel I. I might have missed it. But you, um Out outside storage and agriculturally agricultural Zone areas is not limited. Is that correct. That is correct. Yes. Yes, I didn’t touch on it in this presentation, but that’s how it’s written.

00:29:03,800	Did you, Um did you consider the CD L restrictions and like lightning that on AG zoned properties at all? Uh, we we? We could do that. So currently right now in Axon property would be allowed one truck with a CD O. I should be clear as well.

00:29:22,470	Agriculture is not not a home occupation that so if you’re an agriculture operation, you’re running as many trucks as you want. Um, but if you’re running a a business as non agricultural the way it’s written, it would be one. OK? Yeah. Thank you? Thank you, Comm. Johnson. Commissioners additional questions for Daniel. I’m not seeing or hearing any Daniel. Thank you. Thank you.

00:29:43,970	With that I’m going to open up the public hearing for this agenda item. Those that would care to speak to it. Please, uh, step up. Uh, Put your name on the log if you would please and announce yourself, there’s no log up there. Well, we we We better take care of that. There was two of them. Did you pick it up with the papers? Yeah.

00:30:12,730	Just one Co Mystery solved. Right? Uh, good evening commissioners. My name is Tyson Austin. Um, obviously, I’ve kind of been involved with this since the beginning. Um I’m actually really impressed with what? What they came up with. So. Good job, guys. Um, I’ve just got a couple of questions.

00:31:03,400	So it says that we need to screen the areas that we’re gonna be storing things. Um, and that can be natural screening trees. Shrubs whatever that is, Um, are we gonna be given leeway as far as how long it’s gonna take for that stuff to grow? You know no matter what you put in, whether it’s lilacs or evergreens or whatever you’re gonna do if

00:31:24,800	we’re gonna screen these areas off with with plant material, it’s gonna take time for that to grow. Um It. It’s So. I’m wondering that 1st 2nd I just wanna. I. Just.

00:31:45,730	Wanna make sure that we are still, um, able to have employees that are not working on site, you know, um, as a person who brings some of my stuff home. I am gonna fall underneath this even though I’ve got a shop in town. Um and sometimes I have more than three employees. Now. They’re not working at my house. They don’t work at my house. They work off site all of the time.

00:32:01,130	Um, but I just want to make sure that I’m not going to get thrown under the bus because I have more than three employees. Um everything else you know? Seems. OK, Um, I’m not happy about it. I don’t like being told what I can and can’t do on my own piece of dirt.

00:32:19,830	Um, but at the end of the day, we do need common sense rules and common sense isn’t always common. So here we are. Um do you guys have answers for those questions? Daniel, can I Redirect to you. Sure thank you chair. Um so the SEC I’ll answer the second question first, so that that one is very clear, right? If.

00:32:38,470	It’s in if it’s a an employee that works off site they would not be included as part of the home occupation so you could have a business of 50 people and and that doesn’t matter if you only have three working on site, Um, the the first question, Y, you know, I think the screening it would have to be effectively

00:32:57,670	visually screened so even if it takes time for the plants to grow, uh, there would probably need to Some other way to screen in the meantime. So. Essentially what? What. I’m understanding If. I’m understanding this correctly is Vegetation screening is not going to be allowed.

00:33:17,700	We have to do fencing of some variety and that it has to be a privacy fence. I would assume And just hold for a second here. We’ll see what, uh So relative to our our buffer yards there. There already are requirements in ordinance related to landscaping buffer yards, And, so we’ve simply just referenced those requirements. So.

00:33:51,730	It’s the same same requirement that it comes into play if we have a multifamily housing next to a single family home, so we’ve used those same standards, and it does outline in that ordinance, the number of species the distances and everything that would be planted. So.

00:34:12,000	Uh, there could be, you know the ability to grow over time with those OK? OK Tyson. Does that make sense. Yes, sir. OK, thank you. Good. Evening, Ladies and gentlemen. I’m a residential owner. And for about the last 2 to 3 years we’ve had maverick neighbors as we’d like to call them. Could I. Could I stop you for just a moment. Sure. I’d like to know who you are. I’m Linnea.

00:34:42,570	I’m Reeves? Yes. Put your name on the log there that would I’d be happy to thank you. Welcome. OK? We have maverick neighbors flipping furniture, turning the neighborhood into a seven day a week.

00:35:32,100	Business district laud, pounding, slamming, shaking the walls while legitimate furniture business is downsizing, and I’ve heard from some local furniture stores here in town that they’ve had let to let their employees go because of what’s going on in the world here. The City inspector shrugged his shoulders, walked away from it and we were told to mind our own business. You don’t enforce your own laws. You blame the messengers.

00:35:58,200	Doesn’t say much for the Chamber of commerce, either who pays the expenses and the taxes? Maverick business doesn’t pay a dime into our system. A 70 year old law being ignored. Is this what you call keeping it local Mavericks, who thumb their noses at proper procedure. Apologies to my horses. I love wild horses. Don’t Get me wrong July 15th is I Love horses Day.

00:36:25,970	I visited a local business today and I made some purchases. 10 reasons to buy local if you don’t know them. Let me tell you what they are. Build community. The casual encounters you enjoy at the neighborhood scale businesses and the public spaces around them, build relationships and community cohesiveness.

00:36:57,270	They’re the ultimate social networking sites create a healthier environment. Independent communities serving businesses are people size, they typically consume less land. And carry more locally made products. Locate closer to residents and create less traffic and air pollution. More on this topic buying green means buying local enhances choices. A wide variety of independent businesses, each serving their customers tastes.

00:37:30,530	Creates greater overall choice choices for all of us. It also creates jobs and opportunities. Not only do independent businesses and employ more people directly per dollar revenue. They also are the customers of local printers. Accountants, wholesalers farms Attorneys, et cetera, expanding opportunities for local entrepreneurs. And. It also enhances local democracy.

00:38:04,670	Local ownership of businesses means residents with roots in the community are involved in key development decisions that shape our lives and local environment. Also, it strengthens. Our local economy, each dollar that you spend at independent businesses returns three times more money to your local economy than one spent at a chain almost 50 times more.

00:38:34,030	Than buying from an online mega retailer a benefit we all can bank on. Lowering taxes. That’s one that’s been in the paper a lot lately. More efficient land use and more central locations mean local businesses put less demand on our roads. Sewers and safety services. They also generate more tax revenue per sales. Dollar. The bottom line, a greater percentage of local independent businesses keeps your taxes lower.

00:39:06,170	It also increases the wealth. Of residents. The multiplier effect created by spending locally generates Lasting impact on the prosperity of local organizations and residents. It also gives back to your community. Small businesses donate more than twice as much per sales dollar to look to local nonprofits, events and teams compared to the big businesses. Enhance Health of residents.

00:39:40,730	Research shows a strong correlation between the percentage of small, locally owned firms and various indicators of personnel and community health and vitality. I hope that a decision is reached on this. I really do because it is just disrupting the neighborhood. And I. Wanna thank you for your time for this evening. I really do appreciate it.

00:40:04,830	Commissioner’s questions for Linnae. Mr Michel. Lk. Would you be willing to share your address because to get perspective of where, Where you my address. It’s 718 North 22nd Street here in Bismarck on the south side of my home. It’s all hours of the day or night. And I work for a living. Just like My.

00:40:31,930	Significant other does work for a living. There’s midnight all hours of the day. They got people coming and going, they’re pounding sawing. It’s just disruptive. You can’t get any sleep. You can’t keep a window open because you can hear that you can’t sleep. In the middle of the night because Guess. What.

00:40:53,470	You’re being woke up. And. I can see why. The people, I. I was surprised because it’s a It’s a beautiful home. That moved it that we moved into And. I’m surprised by whether people would leave such a beautiful home. I really am had a newborn child. Then I found out that they couldn’t leave their windows open.

00:41:17,930	Why? Because of what’s been going on too much noise in the area. Their infant could sleep. And. Well, that was after The House was already purchased. Well, then it’s a little too late to do that, but I’ve been there since 2012. And the house kind of matches. The Cops Show Dragnet 714 disruptive They.

00:41:46,730	Don’t listen to reason they park anywhere they want to And. They have people coming and going one just leaving with a load of furniture, and they’ve got another one backing into the into either our area where on the street or they’ve got one backing into their driveway. Waiting for the other one to leave.

00:42:11,800	Or sometimes they they load them up. Both. It’s just such a disruption. That. You should have to live in a neighborhood like that Pay for ownership pay for taxes. And. This is what you’re gonna get. It’s. It’s really a sad situation that it has come to this that Had to be down here in order to say something.

00:42:35,870	I got snubbed. Every time I made a phone call. That no Don’t don’t, uh, we don’t want to hear about it. Mind your own business. Well. I got tired of minding my own business. Now. I want to mind theirs because it’s I. I can’t tell you if you don’t Live next to someone like that.

00:42:59,070	You don’t know what you’re missing. Because. It’s really a tough situation, you know. And they don’t care what they do. And I could go on further, but sometimes I feel my voice is falling on deaf ears.

00:43:25,830	It didn’t before at my other job, but Sometimes I feel like it’s falling on deaf ears and I and I wish that something could get done about this. Because this is Gotten out of hand. They don’t listen, even if you say something She’d rather tell me where I could go. And I. Don’t go for that either.

00:43:48,470	So if we could take care of this situation, that would be great, and I know I’m not the only person in in the city of Bismarck with this same situation going on, there’s more and more people that are working from home that think that they don’t have to listen to anyone. And, they can make a profit. But, Yet, a business owner has to let their employees go. He let three employees go in one day.

00:44:13,170	They had to go look for a new job because they couldn’t afford to keep them. They weren’t selling. And that’s really sad that it’s taking away a job a legitimate job. And our taxes. Let’s not forget about that. That’s been in the news a lot. Let’s talk about taxes, how high they’re getting to be I, a homeowner.

00:44:35,000	I see my taxes go up. And. Yet. This situation continues, and they don’t feel that they need to do anything about it. They don’t worry about getting up at 334 o’clock in the morning like their neighbor has to, and that’s the time I get up in the morning. And you know The lane.

00:44:56,430	I don’t mean to interrupt you, but we’re we’re kind of getting off track here. But my question for for you would be. Are you in support of the ordinance or not? I. Don’t. I don’t want them to work at home.

00:45:15,100	I want them to? I want it to be a legitimate business where they have to go and have to pay taxes they have to pay. For, um For land ownership for renting. I’m against this whole policy of them working at home, making noise and just disrupting the whole community, And. I’m not the only one in my neighborhood. That feels like this. I mean you can hear them. OK, Well.

00:45:37,370	Thank you for your comments? Thank You. Have A nice evening, OK? With that the podium is open for others that would care to address this agenda. Item chair if I may that there is somebody on zoom who would like to speak to this issue as well? So, uh, Ellen Hamlet is the name Ellen. There.

00:45:56,670	Thank you? I believe it was daniel that just introduced me, so I appreciate it. Um But firstly chair Schwartz and members of the commission. Uh, thank you for the opportunity to submit public comment on the on this draft related to home occupation. My name is Ellen Hamlet, and I am with the Institute for justice.

00:46:18,070	We are a national nonprofit organization that has been advocating for entrepreneurs for over 30 years. Um, over the last six years at, uh at IJ, advocating for entrepreneurs, many of whom operate out of their home. I have become an expert on how local policies impact small businesses, including my own. Based business.

00:46:39,400	My colleague Jennifer McDonald, the director of our Cities Work initiative, submitted written testimony ahead of this meeting. We were alerted to this proposal by some home based business owners in Bismarck, who asked us to review the ordinance and make any suggestions for improvement. Based on our expertise, um, on best practices for these types of laws, So upon review of the proposed ordinance.

00:47:01,800	We applaud the Planning and Zoning Commission for taking proactive, proactive steps to Expand and clarify the home based business law in Bismarck. The adjustments the zoning team made to the draft ordinance will create opportunities for home based businesses to thrive based on a review of home based business ordinances across the country and the real world impact on entrepreneurs.

00:47:19,600	We believe that this ordinance will ensure that home based entrepreneurs have flexibility while still ensuring public safety as daniel highlighted earlier in his slides about how there are a lot of protections for Boy ordinances and vibrations and everything like that, Um So in May.

00:47:44,700	We recommended increasing the number of allowed Non-resident employees for both major and minor, home based businesses because there are many situations in which a home based business may require extra labor than this proposed ordinate than the proposed ordinance had allowed. So we suggested raising the number of allowed outside employees for minor home home occupations to one and for major home occupations to three.

00:48:04,200	So we think the zoning team for making this recommendation seriously and implementing them into the new draft, so this will allow for Lot of flexibility for home based entrepreneurs to hire people who may only want to work part time, such as high school students or mothers who want to be at home when their Children get back from school.

00:48:19,700	So when cities limit the number of employees of business can have they limit the amount of job opportunities that may exist. So like I said. Before. We really applaud the the change in that, um in the number of employees, so I would like to take this time to emphasize the importance of home based businesses for the community and for the economy.

00:48:38,870	We Heard a long list of why buying local is so important, right? According to the most recent census data, the United states was home to more than 50 million Home based business businesses, representing about half of small businesses in the country.

00:48:59,670	In fact home businesses make up about a quarter of small businesses that have employees making home based businesses, a job generator and an economic engine. This is especially true for women who make up a disproportionately large number of home based business owners. As they’ve reported. It’s easier to care for Children while adding to their household income.

00:49:19,630	So setting entrepreneurs up for success regardless of where they operate is of paramount importance and we support the efforts, the planning and zoning Department is taking to support these very crucial entrepreneurs. And we hope that you will support this draft. Um So. Thank you for your consideration and I am happy to answer any questions you may have Ellen. Thank you for your comments? Uh, commissioners. Any questions for Ellen? Ellen.

00:49:40,300	I’m not seeing or hearing any No worries. I. Thank you so much for, uh, letting me participate on Zoom. I. Appreciate it. Thank you. With that folks the, uh, podium is open for others that would care to address this agenda item. My name is Bob Latsky. And I live in the county.

00:50:09,770	I chose to live in the county. Because My. Neighbors aren’t right next to me. That was my option. And. I Think when you want to limit businesses out in the country. At one time this was the county also So. Did we limit you? Big time. Did We ask you to Put all these regulations On you.

00:50:44,400	We out in the country don’t want Your Permits. We don’t want any of that stuff. Just give us a break and let us do our business that we’ve been doing all these years without your Help. And. Your help consists of permits licenses. I. Don’t want your license. This is a free country so far.

00:51:13,330	Not by much. But. You want us to be under your administrative law. I want to be under common law. Common law is Freedom. As long as I don’t Hurt somebody. I don’t Like. What. You guys are trying to do So please. Forget this here licensing stuff. Keep your city still inside your city limits.

00:51:47,000	Let us out in the country alone. And. I’m Bob Blotske, By the way I’m gonna write it down. Please. Thank you, Bob. Any questions from the guys. Ladies commissioners any questions? Mr Field. Isn’t that considered the ETA where you live. You gotta talk louder. Isn’t that considered the ETA where you live. It is.

00:52:33,270	OK, so it’s the same as everybody on apple cracker. Everybody on 10. So you technically According to these rules in the city limits. Is what you Saying, Yeah. Just. Leave us alone out there. We are not We are law abiding citizens. Of the county. Will leave us alone. Anybody else? Questions go ahead, Mr field. This still includes, um, industrial equipment.

00:53:06,930	Correct your ordinance. I mean he runs Royal Septic, and he has backhoes dump trucks. All out on his property in the ETA. So How Does. This ordinance restrict his Business. Uh, Comm. fields and others as as it’s written the, uh, the restricted, please. Oh Sorry.

00:53:36,900	Maybe my my mic isn’t on so the, uh there’s no limit on the number of pieces of equipment or storage that you may have in the rural areas. There is a limit on the number of trucks that require a CD L, and that would be the one and then the limit on the number of the amount of storage 5% of of the law.

00:53:54,470	Uh, but those are the only limits that will be in place. Oh. He’s got more than one truck. He’s got a septic truck. And construction equipment for doing septics. So. You’re basically gonna tell him that he’s been out there for years. But. Now. He’s out of business. Because you eliminated to an impossible number of vehicles. So. The.

00:54:22,130	Uh, there are other other options as well of cour. Of course as we’re only speaking about residential and agricultural zoning districts, So if it’s commercially industrially zoned, and that’s totally different issue And then beyond that, um, as I mentioned in a presentation in the rural areas, especially use permit can be used for any any business.

00:54:40,330	So even if you do not meet the requirements here. Ah, that would be an option in a rural zoning districts. So. He’s been in business for years. Now he’s gonna have to go pay $700 for a special use permit. OK? I. Guess.

00:55:04,400	We’re asking questions about whether a CD L is required for the trucks that are operated if they’re not required, then it wouldn’t they’re heavy enough. They need a CD L? OK? Most of them are class fee. What’s that? That’s still a CD L. Thank you. Thank you. Without. The podium is open for others that would care to speak. All, right. My name now. A Montes. I am not a home business owner.

00:55:43,570	I really don’t have a dog in this fight. But. I believe last month there was a 17 year old gentleman that was trying to start a business. He can’t get licenses. He can’t buy property. My generation. And. I’m guilty of it. We complain about the new generation. They lack three things. Motivation, dedication, determination.

00:56:11,370	These young kids trying to start a business. These might shut them down. They’re running it out of their mom and dad’s garage. If you want to give me an example There were two people out of South. Carolina started home business. You know who those were? The Wright brothers. There’s two people out of Milwaukee. Harley Davidson. There’s two other people.

00:56:36,200	One started. Apple one started Microsoft All home business started. I think if you Shut down the home businesses. You’re shutting down your futures. And another one. I’m gonna keep more local. I believe he started a business on his parents’ farm. I believe he’s our governor. That was a home business. That he started.

00:57:04,000	So I am all for home businesses. Um I’m gonna make the short sweep. I read a. I read this article. It’s an old article. I’ve read it many times. On my way Here I Read it again today and one line or sentence comes out. Life Liberty pursuit of happiness.

00:57:31,270	I believe that’s called the decoration of independence. Pursuit of happiness is the opportunity to do better not for you, but you can do it for your kids. You can do it for your grandkids. I read. I read it many times and That stands out. You shut down home businesses. You’re shutting down op opportunity. You’re shutting down the pursuit of happiness. Yes.

00:57:54,270	That’s what I have. All. Right. Thank you, Marty. Questions. Chair if I may, uh Daniel, so we did make a change to the ordinance that did not highlight in my presentation as a result of the testimony that was referred to so that the 70 year old who is opening his own business, uh, our our

00:58:20,270	understanding that was that he could meet most of the requirements, the one that was a struggle was parking on grass. And, So. We changed the proposal as a result of that to state that you you can park a trailer vehicle on on a grass surface as a result of that, so I I believe everything that

00:58:38,670	that that, uh, 17 year old pros would be met in this ordinance. Thank you, daniel. That folks. The podium is open for others that would care to address the commission. Right. Well. I’m not seeing or hearing anybody. So with that I am going to close the public hearing. And, uh, Daniel Any last comments.

00:59:09,930	No. Thank you chair OK with that, Um, commissioners. I will open the floor. To comments Uh, motions. I will move to approve as presented. We have a motion. From Comm.. Excuse me. Second from Amber Larson. OK. We have a motion from Comm. Smith and a second from Comm.. Larson to approve as he is. Now.

00:59:48,870	I’ll open the floor for discussion. Comm. wagon, please. I have one question for Daniel just for clarification. Um with the new proposed ordinance. I see on the map what’s considered a rural area, But the PU DS within the rural areas fall under the urban rules. And on the map.

01:00:16,830	I See, the Rising Star Ranch is is a PUD. Um And. I think I understand the basis behind it for the hayride business. But for the equipment that he would have for his ranch operation. Since. It’s not agriculture, would he need a special use permit? Mister Wang and that that’s a good question. I.

01:00:44,470	Ah! So the the The PU DS are I did show them on the map as urban zoning districts But, really, they all have their own rules written into that zoning district. So.

01:01:01,730	Uh, I would have to look at that one more specifically, but I, I I’m suspecting that the rules of that particular PUD are written such that they can do what they’re doing right now. Um so, so I only included those just to state that they were not part of the rural zoning districts. Thank you. Thank you Comm. long and Comm. field. You look like you’re ready to say something. Well, I. Guess I When. I Drive out to my house. I. Think of all the neighbors.

01:01:21,470	I drive by that If we approve. This is ridiculous. Because. They won’t be in business anymore. Because. They’re gonna either have too many employees. They’re gonna have too heavy equipment. And. They. They didn’t buy into any city rule. The City came to them, not them to the city. We.

01:01:43,970	Don’t ask the city for a damn thing out there Nothing. We get no help from you guys. We, get no police protection. The. Only thing we get is this Group of rules and I. Don’t believe anybody out there thinks this is a good idea. So. I’m a hard no 100%.

01:02:05,070	I think the city should stop at the city limits. This makes sense for my house on Richmond. This doesn’t make sense for my 16 acres on Apple Creek. Regardless of this past. I’m gonna do whatever I want on my 16 acres. I own an Apple Creek. Chris Michelle. You know? I. I think it’s important.

01:02:28,530	For US as commissioners and the public and everyone involved to to understand that every step that we would make in this proposed ordinance change. Is loosening up the rules that are already on the books right now, whether or not they’re enforced to the extent that that they could be, is probably another matter.

01:02:44,000	Um, and I think daniel mentioned that this is even less restrictive than the county ordinance is now and I’m. I’m Sure, Mr Comm. Bitner If. You’d want to speak to that piece or if there’s any Desires or or or Initiatives on the county side to look at what this is outside of the ETA. Also. Um, but I think that’s for me.

01:02:59,000	It’s important to just recognize that these are steps that are opening up. And making them, uh, have the ability to work within the confines of of the law through the various processes, whether it’s by, right or through a A special use permit, even for those that are above that major to still be able to have that opportunity to become

01:03:16,070	compliance. If if that’s the desire of that person, and I think we’ve mentioned before most of these are on a complaint basis. So if we don’t hear of these things, uh or if they’re not pointed out, then there’s really doesn’t get enforced either. So, I guess with that.

01:03:32,930	I’m supportive of the of of the ordinance that is presented Thank you Comm. Shell. Other comments. Commissioners. Mr Bittner. You knew you were going to hear from me. Um Obviously. I’m a no on it simply because I’m opposed to the extraterritorial area.

01:04:01,030	I see no reason for the city of Bismarck, uh, to be out there, um, imposing some sort of regulation, even though um, it sounds according to you that it’s a loosening up of ordinances. I don’t recognize that either. Like Mr Field. Um I bought my property, um before the city of Bismarck had any authority. I mean I didn’t buy into it.

01:04:20,800	I mean I don’t you guys like he said the city came to me and I think it’s the same way with Ah. Is essentially everybody that I’ve talked to about this issue feels the same way now, if this ordinance applied in the city of Bismarck, I have no concerns with that. Regarding. Um, how ordinances have been in the past and what burly county does. Um You know, Burly County responds to complaints as needed. But.

01:04:47,430	We also recognize that we’re responding based on existing laws. Like nuisance laws. Um, noise, Um Junk no sort of things and those are all covered with Existing law. There’s, There’s No need for additional ordinances. In my mind.

01:05:12,630	And, so my opposition to it is simply, um, although I think it’d probably be fine in the city. I don’t want it applying to anybody outside the city limits because those citizens have got no say so. In. This. We have some representation here at this board. But, uh I’m guessing about how the vote might go here. Um But.

01:05:35,130	I’m going to oppose it simply because this would be a city regulation on county residents. That are living outside the city limits. Thanks. Thank you, Comm. Bittner. Sure. Comm. W. About a month ago. Um I represent the ETA. So. I’m, a rural resident.

01:06:00,530	About a month ago we had a community event, um, northwest of town in my neighborhood and when that was winding down, one of the residents brought this ordinance up. Um As. He’s a local contractor. Most of my people are or the people in at the event, had not heard of this. Um, once it was explained to him. There was not a single person that supported it. In, the ETA that was at this event.

01:06:22,400	Um, a real sad thing is the majority of the people at this event did not even understand they were in the ETA. I. I think there’s a weakness in in education and public awareness on this, Um Realtors. Don’t tell it to people when they buy a rural residents that are rural residents, um, that they’re moving into the ETA.

01:06:44,870	Um Or. They’ve been a long time resident in the city came to them. And and put it in the ETA and for the group that was out there. None of those people wanted to be in the ETA, either that phone just found out during that event that they were part of the ETA.

01:07:05,130	Um, they didn’t feel it was appropriate for the city to be regulating and putting regulations when there’s not direct elected representation they can go to to address issues and challenges and and just from the feedback from it was a fairly large group. I I’m gonna have to vote No for this ordinance also, um The. Rural residents don’t want this.

01:07:31,270	Thank you Comm. Wan 11 Quick Comm. john or comment. If. We vote No on this. It’s a worse position. Isn’t it? Is it not. How. Is it? Not? Though? We used to be in the city. It’s a different different topic, ETA boundaries and the existence of the ETA. Completely separate.

01:07:53,630	Not with this ordinance because you guys moved it over us. So now we become part of the city and the city’s view. Even though we’ve never decided we were part of the city. OK, let’s say we take it out. Take the ETA out of this and you’d have no authority.

01:08:08,530	I think you’d have a different a different group of people complaining. That there. I’ve heard from people that say that They don’t understand why anyone has to have a business in a rural residential area. It might be a minority, but they’re there. So. I think having something that this is not that restrictive.

01:08:23,800	We’re this is not this is not going to be putting people out of business. For the most part, it is allowing a pretty significant home occupation in the the the ETA. And. If. It’s Above that it’s uh, special use permit, which I can understand. Not wanting to pay that. But it is very It allows quite a bit. And.

01:08:47,130	I think to to Daniel’s part of At a certain point you’re gonna be swinging too far on the the side of businesses that you’re gonna get more and more residents. Uh, you know? Non business owners complaining and being upset We’re far enough apart in the ETA for the most part I mean I can see Brian’s house for mine. But it’s a half a mile away.

01:09:05,200	I mean there’s no land for sale. Uh, the the blocks aren’t for sale. But, If you’re in a aren’t gonna subdivide so we can let somebody build a business in my yard.

01:09:23,400	But there are people that are fairly close that are, uh, hundreds of feet apart, but it’s not everyone’s not A quarter mile apart. Yeah. I have a neighbor. That’s 600 ft away. And. I don’t call on Bitch when he starts his tractor. Cause I know he’s going to feed his horse. Yeah, So. I mean but But you’re you.

01:09:43,070	You guys are missing the point that Brian brought up where he lives didn’t used to be the ETA at all. So. What, right? Does he have and see in In my case I own property in town. And I own in the ETA. Even though My driver’s license is 1649 Richmond. I cannot vote in town because I own property in the ETA. They won’t give me a ballot.

01:10:05,070	Even though my driver’s license says so to to say we’re represented at all. Then how many on the city Commission are from the ETA? Your answer is zero. Because. We can’t even vote for City Commission. So the the big problem here is you guys are figuring out ways to affect our incomes in the ETA and we have zero representation.

01:10:27,500	That’s Where this the this, you know, rubber hits the road. And to tell Bob. He’s got to spend 700 bucks for a special use permit is an insult to humanity. He’s been in business for years, I built a septic truck. It. Isn’t that he just moved out there. You guys moved to him.

01:10:49,330	And Now. You’re gonna make him pay almost 1000 bucks to stay in business. This can’t be a reasonable conversation. Here that everybody should be exempt that’s already in business. Because you’re going by and stamping a tax on every one of them. You can call it what you want.

01:11:13,500	But that special use permit is nothing more than a usage tax that we’re going to nail him with. There’s No Way I agreed to Moving the line. And, then changing the rules. Thank you, Comm. Fiel. Comm. additional comments about the folks that are online. Mr Logan. I do have one additional comment. I.

01:11:43,270	Wanna congratulate the staff and thank the staff for all the hard work that they’ve done on it. They’ve come a long way from where we started with this. Um they’ve made a a lot of positive changes. Um And. I’m very thankful for everything they’ve done with it, but just based off of the group of people that I represent, why I’m here and with all of them.

01:12:05,700	Being opposed to it. That’s why I’m gonna be opposed, but I truly think the staff for all the hard work they have done. Um the real challenge is is the rural residents And.

01:12:26,530	They don’t like being regulated by the city when it’s not their elected officials, especially in areas that there’s no future plans of that area ever becoming the city Thank you. Comm. additional comments. Additional discussion. Mr Chair. I just would reiterate that comment.

01:13:02,630	I am extremely impressed with the work of the staff listening to, um All the frustrations but also all the Um, productive feedback that was brought forward and the adjustments that have made to this I will also say as a new newer member to the To P and Z. It is frustrating for me, Um To have Productive discussions be held up. Um, by this fight between city and county. And I would like to see us get to more productive discussions around that. Yes. I’m in the city. Yes. I’m, also a county taxpayer.

01:13:32,670	Um, so I think that’s an important perspective to bring forward not to mention this is an extremely personal and important topic to me. I do own a business that started out as a home based business that now actually does own commercial property. So.

01:14:00,400	I have experienced this firsthand and understand the passion that came behind it, but also get frustrated that, um Some of these Discussions I think are taking away or these frustrations are taking away from productive discussion. Um, based on nitpicking of oversight. Thank you, Comm. Larson. Commissioner’s additional Going once going twice. Not hearing any I Guess. I’m. I’m. I will weigh in as his probably having the last word on this right now. And.

01:14:40,570	Uh, I’ve owned property out in the county. I live in the city. Uh, I know that no matter where you live or what you do, there’s going to be rules. That’s a given, and, of course, as you move closer to the city, it tends to be a little more restrictive. And.

01:15:02,330	I mean that’s that’s the nature of the beast. If you will. And. Uh, you know as much as I’ve had friends that have have moved out to buy their 40 acre tract to be out of it. And guess what. The city moves out to find them. And, uh, It’s it’s a fact of life.

01:15:22,670	One of the things that I keep thinking back to is that, uh, a question that Comm. Larson asked two meetings ago. And. Then. The question was, what in this ordinance is going to shut down your business. And. I have heard very few solid answers to that question. I don’t know, you know. What would shut down businesses. What this ordinance. And.

01:15:52,300	It still leaves me wondering. It’s It’s like, um I don’t know if we’re chasing ghosts or what, but, uh uh, I have not seen anything solid, so you know The bottom line for me. And. I think so Much of what this ordinance is about is being a good neighbor.

01:16:16,170	You know you’ve got You put you put an ordinance like this in place, And. The only way you’re going to get a visit from Brady. Is if you’re not a good neighbor. If you’re not doing the right things. If You’ve got, uh, a neighbor that you can’t communicate with. Um Things like that, and, uh, So for my From.

01:16:38,400	My perspective, Uh, most often, uh, regardless of what rules are out there if you’re a good neighbor and you take care of things you’re not going to have an issue. I think. Ah, I think when it comes around to is staff has done a very good job of putting this ordinance together.

01:17:00,330	I think they have responded to requests that we have made as a group to modify some things to make things better. And, uh, I. I commend staff for doing the job that they have. In the end, um I’m going to support this because I think it’s a good thing, and it’s going to be a good thing going down the road. Comm.

01:17:26,630	field. Yeah lady that can’t get any sleep because they’re building furniture next to her. By supporting this. She’s not gonna get any sleep. Because that’s a home based business. So. This doesn’t do anything to stop them. From Assuming it’s a family. So really? What’s the point. It’s Yes, We created something beautiful.

01:17:58,000	I can paint in the dark. It’s just a black I don’t see the point in this. I don’t think it’s accomplishing anything. Um, I’ll give you two things so number five under minor. Occupancy calls out noise cannot, uh, make any more noise than a normal resident should So. There’s something that the city can go to that.

01:18:18,800	Business owner and say You’re you’re not meeting this requirement. So. There’s something there that will help them. Um and and in the county too, I.

01:18:34,470	I know, I don’t know as many people as you do in the county, but I know one of one of my friends that has a business that does not have any outside employees right now because of the current ordinance. As soon as this has passed, he like will hire somebody, maybe even two people because this allows it by right So it’s not. It’s not hurting everyone. There are people that are going to benefit from this that following the rules today It’s hurting someone.

01:18:54,570	I don’t know that we’re gonna get to that audience ordinance. It doesn’t hurt someone. And I. Guess From my perspective, There isn’t a perfect ordinance. Do. I believe that this is a work of art in progress? Yes, I do. But. I think we have to start somewhere. We started back in the mid fifties.

01:19:16,630	With an ordinance that was on the book. We’ve run into some issues with it. And we’re trying to do some things to make it. Make it better. Any other any additional discussion. If, not I’m going to ask Sarah to call roll. The motion on the table is to approve. Comm. field. No. Comm. Johnson? Yes. Comm. Smith.

01:19:48,730	Yes, Comm. Larson. Yes. Comm. Lukins. Mister Lukins. Comm. Bittner. No. Comm. shell? Yes. Mr Wan? No shews. Yes. The motion is approved. With that we will move on to the next item on our agenda, which is I Excuse me. Chair. This is mayor Schmidt’s before we get to that next item.

01:20:34,230	I must let everyone know that One of the applicants who works for me. So, although I don’t believe it affects my judgment, I need to disclose that so that you are all aware of it. And if This commission chooses to ask me to Um R remove myself from the discussion, then that would be the case. All. Right.

01:20:59,070	Thank you mayor. I appreciate that. I think that would be an appropriate thing. You feel that that would be an appropriate thing. We’ve done that at a number of meetings, and I think that it’s Cleaner that way, OK? Not that I think you would have any bias, But? I think that would be Commissioners and I thoughts on

01:21:17,070	that, Then. I’m going to ask that everyone else disclose any relationship they may have with a person who is an applicant or who might be opposed to it. So Mayor Schmitz is asking the question. Does. Anybody else have a relationship with somebody. That will deal with, uh This agenda item. Mr Bitner.

01:21:54,070	The thought if if I’m removed then Comm. Bittner needs to be removed. They’d be OK with me. Well. Just I just it’s got to be fair, you know? I have no problem being removed. I just want to make sure we’re Appropriate. Seems fair to me. OK. So. You’re removing yourself, Comm. Benner. Mr Wan. Just for clarity.

01:22:16,930	All is the applicants. Is it what’s listed in the staff report? And, then, um Mayer said. Anyone who’s opposed to it. How. Do. We know who all is opposed to it. Because I. I do know a lot of people in that area because that’s no no, no. Comm. Wong. Knowing is not what I’m relationship.

01:22:45,800	So OK family relationship employment relationship employer relationship that that’s what I’m talking about Just knowing someone I don’t believe. I mean. We know all of us know a lot of people. Comm. Bitner. Do, you follow up. I understand? I’m not related to the applicants. That’s what you’re am related to somebody who lives out there, but that would be it.

01:23:09,730	OK? So Comm.. The other question is, Is there anyone else? Comm. schmitz and Comm. Bitner are recusing themselves. From, the discussion and from the vote. Correct. I guess I, would. I would like additional clarity. So sorry, Mr Chair. I would like additional clarity on what we’re considering a relationship. Um, a realtor.

01:23:35,930	My, realtor and friend is one of the Applicants. I do not believe she owns. However, the property What is the listing agent for property. I don’t know how far we’re going with this. I again. I my opinion was as if it’s a family relationship to the applicant or a person opposed to it. Or In my case I have an employee. So employment relationship.

01:24:02,670	Were there. I don’t again. We know a lot of people in the community. So knowing and having that kind of relationship, you know, I don’t think it was In my opinion. Comm. Bittner. Really this.

01:24:31,070	This is Not really a question so much as you know, the the law speaks about conflict of interest and conflict of interest is why you wouldn’t vote. And conflict of interest has to do with whether you have a direct what fiduciary or You know a direct money involvement with it.

01:24:50,800	I don’t think there’s anything in the law that I’ve ever seen in all the years that I’ve been here that matters whether you’re related or whatever this was, you know, in my mind, it’s just kind of a nice thing to not have bias but of any sort Proceeding, but it’s it’s not really a question of the Law here because I certainly have no Financial or or other interest in it, And neither does, uh Well, I. Guess I can’t speak for the mayor.

01:25:12,100	That’s That’s an employee situation, so I don’t know that I have no financial. I have no financial interest in it. There is just she works for me. One of several employees. And. I. Think, Um Comm. Bittner. I would agree with you there. There should be some something. Financial involved.

01:25:36,600	Seems like it, you know, because that’s see otherwise. What happens is over the years. You know you kind of look for an easy way out of a controversial thing. If you can. No, I’m not looking for an easy way out except You know, I was just kind of Nice, I guess so.

01:25:52,630	OK, but it’s not really it doesn’t really meet the We’re we’re going to get the word from legal counsel here. So. Thank you might help a little bit if we wanted and, uh, chair and planning and zoning Commission members. So. Yes. There’s different types of conflict of interest. One is is an a pecuniary or financial interest in the individual or the property.

01:26:15,070	There can also be familial interests. For instance, if it was your spouse or something you’re not gonna I mean that’s that’s a big perceived conflict it who knows which direction Um depending on the relationship with your spouse. But. Uh, you know there’s those types of things, Uh, but it is always up to the board.

01:26:32,300	You guys get to decide whether, um you know they they present the conflict. They’ll give you the information. Um and then the board can decide if they feel it’s not a conflict, or they do agree. It’s a conflict. Um, but I agree with Comm. Bittner. It’s It shouldn’t be used as an easy way out of difficult decisions.

01:26:50,170	But, um We wanna have fairness? Just knowing somebody is not enough in North Dakota, especially, um and being friendly with someone working in a You know they are working with us, and they’re your dry cleaner or whatever that isn’t a significant thing in North Dakota. Now if you have an interest in the dry cleaner’s business.

01:27:13,800	That’s obviously different or it’s your brother. That’s different. So The particular circumstances if you want to get into all of them. You can certainly ask if The Commission members can just indicate a general reason why they feel it doesn’t apply. I think that’s fair.

01:27:35,230	We don’t necessarily need to know all of the information of the facts from them. For privacy purposes if they don’t want to disclose all the facts, either. So how does how does a working relationship fall into that by subordinate? Uh, that type of thing? So if it was what it would be the one that would be a problem in my mind would be a subordinate making a decision

01:27:53,470	for the boss because they do get money from the from the employer so there could be the perception that they’re giving them a deal. Because they? They pay them their wages. The. Other direction is often not an issue, but a perceived conflict.

01:28:15,200	If the board feels the perceived conflict is enough that You want it to not have a Have that appearing in front of the case. Then we follow what the commission wants. And. I believe that’s how it started was mayor Smith’s disclose, which is what I always request.

01:28:36,570	Everybody do And then, um, they can indicate if they feel it’s a conflict or not, but it’s up to the board to decide if they they feel that it is. And insurmountable. Conflict. I think that sounds good. I think that helps clarify things. Except for the engineer. Commission shell.

01:29:01,670	I was just gonna note that based on that information, I wouldn’t view that sh uh, mayor SMS have a conflict of interest or the Christian Bitner would have a conflict of interest. So. I guess that’s how I would view this anyway. I agree. Not an issue. Not an issue. Comm. field. Not an issue, OK? Mr Benner. No. I’m not a problem. Not a problem. Comm. Larson. I was just trying to, you know, give the mayor his, uh He was.

01:29:27,300	Yeah, I agree. OK, Well. Apparently, we don’t have any issue then. Is what I’m hearing. So with that we’re going to Excuse me. I just I. Just. I needed full disclosure. That’s all. You. You need What Just wanted to make sure I had given full disclosure.

01:29:52,030	I appreciate that mayor All right with that, Jenny. We’re going to move ahead with staff report for this agenda item. Thank you chair Schwartz commissioners, the owners of lots 30 through 36 and lot 38 and 39 Block.

01:30:10,470	One Misty waters are requesting approval of a planned unit Development amendment that would identify the interior edge of a platted 20 ft drainage easement on their properties as the rear yard set back from the bay. This request is located northwest of Bismarck, west of River Road along the north south portion of Burnt Creek Loop and consists of four point Eight acres with nine lots in one block. You.

01:30:26,700	Consider this request at your May 22nd meeting and called for a public hearing. The original beauty for misty Waters was adopted in June of 2005 and identified the rear yard setback as 30 FT. The PUD was amended in August of 2006 to alter the setback to an elevation of 16 40.

01:30:47,330	3 ft as delineated by the Contour line, described in a letter of map or vision, or Lomar, which was approved by the Federal Emergency Management Management agency in 2005, a recent North Dakota Supreme Court ruling determined that this Lomar was to function as a setback from the bay as such some Properties within misty waters encroach into this line.

01:31:06,600	The proposed amendment would resolve this encroachment for the lot stated earlier today or in my presentation, the public has been notified of this request. A notice was published in the Tribune on June 14th and June, 21st and 145 Letters were mailed to the owners of nearby properties on June 14th. We have received comments. Those comments were delivered to you prior to this evening’s meeting.

01:31:26,370	This request was evaluated according to the standards contained in our comprehensive plan, the Bismarck Code of Ordinance. And relative. State Law staff recommends approval of the planned unit Development amendment that would identify the interior edge of the Platted 20 ft drainage easement as the rear yard setback.

01:31:43,570	From the bay for lots, 30 through 36 and lot 3839 block one misty waters as outlined in the draft ordinance. Do you have questions? Commissioner’s questions for Janie. I’m not hearing any. Thank you. All right with that. I’m going to open the public hearing the requester and I gather Michael that you’re going to represent the requesters. Yes Michael Gunsch, uh, with Houston engineering here representing the applicants.

01:32:31,930	Uh, we do have a PowerPoint presentation and we’ve got a number of people that will speak to the request and some technical items on along with that request. First of all I want to thank staff for their report and putting the information together and following and showing the summary of the guidelines that the commission is required to

01:32:48,000	follow in in such decisions and standards. Um, so we We appreciate that, Um, I’ll probably just read most of these slides. I think it’s a way of getting the the Um, misty waters was zoned using the plan unit development process in the city of Bismarck’s extraterritorial, is it Jurisdiction. It’s a county subdivision.

01:33:08,870	That’s a valuable asset to the community as well as a great amenity for those of you who use the marina aspect. Uh, the requested PU DS and amendment is a clarification of the effective Rear yard sat back on the bay lots, and it’s only the lots that are in the application.

01:33:25,430	Obviously not the others that are potentially impacted by the Supreme Court’s decision. I’ll get into that later. But the clarification as historically applied by the city and the HO a to the To these lots, um, understand the way the process occurred. The applicant homes were approved by both the city and the homeowners or homeowners Association, uh, city.

01:33:43,730	Approval of these homes is based on the city’s ho a determination or excuse me interpretation of the applicable setback requirements established under the planned unit development process, which are incorporated into the restricted covenants, and I want to talk about the restrictive covenants a little bit later, uh, the inland edge of the drainage easement was

01:34:02,270	the most in most instances used as the effective Yard setback, and I’ll show that in a second as visual on how that works, Uh, this has been the general practice for over 20 years now, um, the city required the sellers.

01:34:20,530	One of the applicants to obtain a letter of map provision from FEMA basically establishing an improved specific low mar to their property, and we talk about that in a little bit as well, Uh, sellers and races again to the applicants and the other applicants obtained all the required permits from the city of Bismarck and approvals and the age a way to construct their homes. What.

01:34:35,800	I want to show here is a couple of things. Um, the original ordinance had a 30 Ft. Platted easement. That’s the Set back. That was the red line. What happened in 2005 when everybody was starting to look at this and said, Hey, wait a minute.

01:34:54,130	You can’t build beyond this stormwater easement, which is the drainage easement, which is the, um The yellow or the excuse me. I’ve got this flipped. Um, but the Um, sorry. I got the two lines turned around. I thought I got the right version here, but the, uh the Red line on here is the drainage easement line. So.

01:35:16,870	The scenario that comes at the 2005 when the city Um Implied or implemented the zoning ordinance. Let me step back and get off track here because of this slide. Um, Originally the 30 Ft Plat, a easement conflicted with a 20 ft stormwater easement. You couldn’t build passes 20 ft Storm water easement, so it became the effective setback.

01:35:38,200	That’s just where it was at when the 2005 ordinance came in, that was based on an elevation. In other words if you had that elevation that was to protect properties from building in the flood plain. That was the reason that that was selected at that point in time, Uh, the city’s interpretation, the HOA’s interpretation. You came out you could relocate that line.

01:35:55,930	You can move that line based on the elevation based on the, uh, base flood elevation that FEMA had and effectively at that point in time, the stormwater easement became The effect of setback. So. In essence. We’re talking about the effective setback only this point in time, the request is actually to put it. As the effective setback.

01:36:15,300	Um, the Supreme court decision was take that in context. A after construction of the applicants, Homes were completed, Uh, the Supreme court determined in 9 2023 that both the HO A and city misinterpreted the setback requirements. The PUD Um, they made that decision. I.

01:36:34,330	Don’t think that that decision was correct, but I’m not going to correct the Supreme Court and just be honest with you. From that perspective, Specifically, they determine the very yard setback at Misty Waters is a fixed and immovable line delineated by the 2005 letter map provision issued by FEMA. Well. I happen to be a certified flip point manager. We can move that line.

01:36:51,470	It’s on the plat. The courts determine it’s there so therefore, that becomes the fixed line at this point, so that’s the issue and so the Supreme court’s interpretation is contrary to the historical interpretation and application of the rear yard setback requirements by both the city and Ho O, a So all the homeowners out here, the residents need consistency

01:37:11,330	and concurrence, so they are not penalized for following all the rules. That were set forth by both those parties. This is just an example to give you an idea where the original setback was and where the requested setback is compared to the 2005 Lamar What’s interesting about the 2005 Lamar line is it’s

01:37:34,670	based on a line that is at or above the BFE. In other words it was at or above the 16 40.3, Unfortunately the way the line was drawn or the way development happened. Uh, that’s not where the lines at In fact some of that line is upwards of 1642. So it’s inconsistent throughout the development.

01:37:55,030	I think that’s important to understand that that line was movable. Based on the elevation, but that’s not the court’s decision. The Court’s decision is that it’s fixed, so that’s why it’s before you again today.

01:38:14,670	The requested PUD amendment for the applicants Law would make the rear yard setback under the PUD consistent with the rear yard setback for the applicants under the amended amended Misty Waters H, a restrictive covenants. We’ll talk about that in a little bit the requested PUD amendment would resolve that non-compliance issue and that becomes a significant issue resulting from the Supreme court’s interpretation again. Contrary to the city and HOAS interpretation and practical application over the last 20 some years.

01:38:38,130	This amendment only applies to the lots That are in the application. All around during circle. There are other, uh residents who are probably in the audience this evening who are looking at this and saying they’re adversely impacted as well. So.

01:38:56,200	Where do we go? I? Obviously, they’d have to come back to you, depending upon your decision this evening. Uh, Burle County adopted the new D firm. Are. You, all aware of that June 6th. The. New maps went into effect. What’s interesting about that relative to this particular area is the BFE for misty water. The Bay. Lots increased to 16 40.7 went up 4/10 of a foot.

01:39:18,730	So the ordinance still applies to 16 40.3, but the reference is actually different, The interesting part as well. FEMA superseded that line. So as far as FEMA is concerned, that line no longer exists. Been superseded. In. Other words. The Lamar Determination doesn’t matter anymore. What matters is the actual new flood plain boundary that was been determined. So floodplain Regulars are the sellers.

01:39:41,100	Lot, for example, has a Lomar on it. Was revalidated and because it had an individual, Omar. That’s The reason FEMA looked at that specifically and revalidated that Lamar as far as the floodplain removal aspect of their residence. Uh, floodplain regulations again govern new constructions. Uh, the ability to relocate or supersede a floodplain boundary.

01:40:00,470	Now we’re not talking about a low mow line. No, we’re just talking about the flood. Plain boundary. Uh via a letter map provision remains So with that I’ll hand it over to, uh, legal counsel to address some of the other issues. You can Good. Evening commissioners. I’m randy Bakke. I’m one of the, uh attorneys for the, uh, applicants.

01:40:27,130	Um, and as Mr Gun Chez presented there’s a number of problems created for all of the homeowners down at misty waters in light of this, um, recent North Dakota Supreme Court decision in 2023. And. It. Really, uh, creates problems for two category of owners.

01:40:51,300	Uh, who have Bayfront property, so the interior portion of the the river lots It affects existing homes. That’s one category affected and there are 17 existing homeowners that have received notifications from the city advising them. They may be in violation of this static line now established by the North Dakota Supreme Court.

01:41:21,000	All of those homes would have received in many in many cases long ago approval from the city to build their homes exactly where they built them. And to build and got homeowners Association approval as well, including from the original developers, the McCormick’s and so these homes have been in existence for many years.

01:41:41,330	So what this means is that these homes would be mandated to either be torn down completely or in part. On as many homes as are determined by a survey to be out of compliance, even though they they complied with all of the applicable approvals and requirements at the time they built their homes.

01:42:05,330	The second category of light owners that Mr waters that are affected by this North Dakota Supreme court decision are individuals who own Bayfront lots that have not yet been built on and could be, and there are 15 of those Bay lot owners where there are no homes constructed yet. So.

01:42:25,130	What does this North Dakota Supreme Court decision mean for them what it means for them is the footprint in the location of where they can. Build. Is much, much smaller now in in light of that static line established For, the first time by the North Dakota Supreme Court decision, so the question becomes, Can. They even build on their lots.

01:42:42,930	They certainly won’t be able to build as large a home as would typically have been built by and has been built by other homeowners. But. There’s also issues because a number of these lots, especially on cul de sacs, or pi shaped And to meet the setbacks in the front and on the sides and on the rear.

01:43:00,370	You logically have to move a home, especially a larger home closer to the water to meet the front setbacks on and the side setbacks on a pie shaped lot, so this isn’t a problem that is just limited to the eight applicants that that we represent here. Um, so the Supreme court decision results in the seller’s home and the Reese’s home in in this cul de sac.

01:43:25,330	Uh, likely having to be mandated by the court or by the city to be torn down either completely or in part In the case of the sellers. It’s It’s simply not feasible that they could Put into, uh, compliance the Lomar line from 2005 and still have their home. It would literally split their home in half.

01:43:47,870	They’d end up with a garage and, and, uh uh, a laundry room and a few other, uh, rooms in the home, and that would be about it. Uh, in the case of the Reese’s home, they would lose a substantial portion as well.

01:44:07,630	Um, And so this is truly an urgent matter for this commission to address this is not something where we think it would be appropriate to kick the can down the road. If, you will and the reason for that is the sellers are facing a September trial date where the burgers Their next door.

01:44:27,270	Neighbors have started a lawsuit a lawsuit and we’ve been in this litigation for a number of years now, and they have made a specific request to the court that the court make a determination that they’re in violation and mandate that they tear their house down. That’s the burgers request. They want their home torn down.

01:44:48,800	And so that’s why it’s so urgent for this commission to address this now today, including for the other applicants, including for the Res because all it takes is for someone to complain about their home or for the city to say. Yes. You’re you’re in violation and you’re going to have to tear down that portion of your home.

01:45:04,200	They’re out of compliance, and so they’re going to have to comply, just like the sellers would have to comply if this amended PUD request is not granted by by the city. And. All of these homeowners are going to have to comply at at some port. Uh, So. Um what are the what are the you know actual practical repercussions of this decision? Well, it’s going to result.

01:45:27,230	As I said in a in a reduction in the build to B Square footage on the lots on the B lots. It’s going to result in a diminishment in value of the bail lot. So your tax base your tax revenue for when you know these lots are are developed and they’re built on is gonna be significantly less if they can be developed at all. And.

01:45:46,000	The. Same is true for those homes that are going to be coming down or partially coming down. You’re going to be looking at a reduced tax base. Um, because of course taxes are charged for homes based on a square footage and a value of the home. This.

01:46:06,670	This also results in a in a lot of other issues for the homeowners in Misty waters other than just economics. So let’s take a as an example the Reeses right now, Maybe. They’re next door neighbor who has a house doesn’t complain. But, the next door neighbor sells their home a year from now. And.

01:46:26,530	That neighbor doesn’t like it and starts looking into the applicable PUD and looks into what the applicable requirements are, and they see the Reese’s home is in violation. They can then come to the city or start a lawsuit or go to the homeowners Association and say, No, the Rees has got to tear their house down. I don’t like its location.

01:46:44,800	In front of where my home is going to be. So. This is a problem that never goes away. Even if you sell your home if Theresa sell their home, it’s a cloud on their title. And, so we’re looking at home sales not being able to occur.

01:47:04,370	We’re looking at neighbors being able to dictate Whether somebody’s home remains or not, So. This is not something that is just limited to the seller’s home or the Reese’s home the supplies to all those other homeowners, um and you know, just common sense tells us if you have a cloud on your title for your property, your mortgage company Call that mortgage due so to the extent mortgage companies have learned

01:47:25,130	about this decision by the North Dakota Supreme Court. They could write a letter to all these lot owners homeowners. D in compliance and say your mortgage is due. There’s a cloud on your title. That.

01:47:44,330	That’s just a few of the examples of not necessarily, you know, um economic problems but non economic problems, not not to mention the stress and the the lack of sleepless nights and all of that, that that goes with this.

01:48:07,470	Um, So Sean Reynolds from our office will now address the, um What has happened since the North Dakota Supreme Court decision what the homeowners have done to try to address this decision and allow these homes that already exist. And, these lots that were already on to Be able to stay where they’re at. And for other lot, owners who haven’t developed yet to develop their lot and have the same opportunity that the other owner homeowners had prior to the North Dakota Supreme Court decision in 2023. Comm. as stated.

01:48:43,070	My name is Sean Reynolds. I’m, also an attorney representing the applicants. In this case before I move on to this this issue of what’s been done by the lot owners out in misty waters as a result of the Supreme Court decision recently, uh, one thing I wanted to, uh, clarify is that some of the slides that were presented with

01:49:02,800	the maps of the original 30 FT setback drain setback under the original pod and with the drainage easement. The color coding is Inc. But. We do have hard copies. We can pull, uh, hand out all the slides that has the correct color coding. If I’m permitted. I’d like to hand those out to everyone.

01:49:18,800	You have that available to you. Please proceed. Thank you. Thank you. Right? So as has been mentioned here. Uh and I guess just to clarify on those, um But. I just handed out the correction on the color coding If, you look at, uh, what’s labeled there as a page three slide. Three, the 30 FT.

01:50:45,430	Original 30 ft setback under the original pod when it was first enacted is the yellow line. Uh, the Red line is the drainage easement, uh, inland boundary line. And.

01:51:10,400	The Blue line is the 2005 Lomer line that the North Dakota Supreme Court recently determined was a fixed setback line that effect the the The Supreme court is determining is the actual setback line for these properties. And what we’re asking for here with our application.

01:51:35,700	Is that the pod be amended so that for the applicants lots the red line will be the new will be the setback, as has been historically applied and interpreted by the city and the HO a to be the applicable setback line for these homes when they were applying for their building permits and when the homes were built and approved So following the North Dakota Supreme Court’s Determination that the Lomar line is a fixed immovable line and establishes a set PAC line.

01:52:08,070	The lot owners out in misty Waters, uh, have since signed and has been recorded an amendment to the restrictive covenants. Uh and I would like to hand out and a copy of what’s been recorded in that regard. Establishing the amendment to the restrictive covenant If that’s permitted, Please proceed. Thank you. So while Mr Bakke is handing that out.

01:52:34,330	What what you’re looking at there is on the second page is the amendment that the homeowners approved amending the restrictive covenants. Uh, I effectively. The language says that irrespective of anything to the contrary contained in the restrictive covenants the rear yard setback for bay lots will be the inland boundary of the drainage easement applicable to each lot, which is is the same language the same what we’re requesting

01:53:02,600	with respect to the P amendment. Now to be clear the city does not enforce restrictive covenants. Instead, the city enforces the zoning. The planned unit development. But In this case the planned unit development. Uh, was incorporated by reference into the restrictive covenants.

01:53:27,700	So originally the rear yard setback for bay lots was effectively what was indicated in the planned unit development, which the Supreme court has determined now was a fixed line set by the 2005 Lomer line. So. Following that determination. The homeowners? Uh uh, signed and attached to that amendment, you’ll see all their signature pages and you’ll see us spreadsheets that identify them by name, address and lot number.

01:53:49,770	And effectively as of April 18th 2024 when that was recorded with the county recorder’s office, the restrictive covenant now establish a rear yard setback at the inland boundary line of the drainage easement for all bay. Lots within misty waters, not just these applicants, but for all bay.

01:54:16,730	Lots now, uh as of that date we had that’s a little over 70% of all property owners out there in misty water. That and under the restrictive covenants, you have to have at least 67% of the owners of the lots out there to approve a change of the restrictive governance, which we was accomplished as of April 18th subsequent to that date and also attached to that packet is

01:54:37,600	some additional signatures that were subsequently recorded at the county recorder’s office. Which brings the total, uh, percentage of owners that approved the amendment to S over 73%. Uh and I do have one more We. We have received a couple more signatures.

01:54:57,870	Uh, since then, uh which I will hand out now? Also that we have yet to record, Uh, for Senator. Uh kevin Kramer and his wife, Chris. Thank you. So effectively. We have signatures of owners of More than 73% of all of the affected lots out there who have signed the amendment. Changing the restrictive covenant to change the rear yard.

01:55:41,600	Setback for bay lot to the inland boundary line of the drainage easement. Now. Again. The City doesn’t enforce Restrictive Covenant where this is particularly relevant for your discussion on our requested amendment to the planned unit development is that this establishes that the vast majority of the homeowners out there are in favor of changing the rear yard setback to be the inland boundary of

01:56:04,070	the drainage easement. Uh, Essentially because that’s historically what’s been applied out there and a lot of homes out there have been approved by the city and the HO A based on that line.

01:56:23,900	And so that’s why we’re asking that you approve the amendment to the P to be consistent with what is now the rear yard setback under the restrictive covenant, So. They’re they remain consistent. Um Now, as I mentioned 73% of the homeowners have a approved or signed off on the amendment. It is effective as of April 18th. As to the other 27% of the homeowners out there.

01:56:51,070	Uh, so we’ve got signatures for 94 of the lots out of 100 and 27 lots. That’s about how many lots we’re dealing with here as to the other 27% that didn’t sign This amendment. Um It shouldn’t be interpreted that they were all opposed to this amendment. A lot of people out there couldn’t be located.

01:57:11,070	Uh and so just because the signatures don’t appear on here that not all lot owners are represented on this doesn’t mean that they’re all the other 27% are opposed. That’s an important point to keep in mind also So I would also like to address uh, some arguments.

01:57:36,770	We anticipate that people opposed to the proposed planned unit Development amendment are likely to make tonight and since I’m up here now, I just assume and present our our position on those points right now. Uh, One argument we believe will be raised as they may assert that under the restrictive covenants, they couldn’t be changed for a period of 20 years from when the restrictive covenants were first implemented. And.

01:57:55,070	So at issue is a section 36 of the restrictive covenant. We disagree with that interpretation. We absolutely believe that the language of the restricted covenants allows them to be amended at any time.

01:58:13,800	If you have the requisite 67% or more of the lot owners to amend And the argument that you can’t amend them for for for 20 years doesn’t make any sense. Let’s say You had a restrictive covenant. You you You implemented them. You recorded them and for whatever reason, it made it impossible for anyone to build on any lot anywhere.

01:58:28,970	That would mean you have to wait for 20 years to fix the issue that can’t possibly be the case, but in any event We’re not asking you to interpret the restrictive covenants again. The city doesn’t enforce the restrictive covenants. The point we’re getting at here Is that the fact that we have that many signatories.

01:58:52,200	Requesting an implementing the change to the restrictive covenants establishes that we have the vast majority of the homeowners out there, Uh, in support of changing the the, uh, rear yard setback on bail lots as we’re requesting under our application here. Another argument that you may hear is that the setbacks can’t be the setbacks under the planned unit development can’t be changed. Through changes in the covenants and we don’t disagree with that.

01:59:13,470	Uh, that’s the reason we’re here tonight that there’s two issues every homeowner out there in misty waters has to comply with both the restrictive covenants and with the planned unit development, So we’ve already taken care of the amendment to the restrictive covenants. But.

01:59:31,770	We’re here tonight asking to complete the process to have the planned unit development to be amended to be consistent with what the majority of the homeowners out there are are are requesting that the drainage easement inland boundary line to the drainage. Now serve as the rear yard setback for the homes out there. As. It historically has applied.

01:59:54,070	Another argument that we anticipate Uh, is that Every Bay Lot owner has to agree to the PUD being amended. We anticipate someone’s going to make that argument that is false. Uh, at issue here is the title 14 of the City Zoning Ordinance specifically section 14-04 Dash 18.

02:00:18,700	For B one A, which discusses who has to sign and submit the application for a change to the plan, unit development and under that provision, uh, the language provides the application shall be completed and filed by all owners of the property proposed to be changed or his their designated agent, and in this case, all the applicants. The only thing we’re asking for here. Is that the lots, the eight lots that are part of this application be changed.

02:00:36,870	We’re not asking that anyone else’s lots be changed Just these eight and Aides have signed this application just before before the commission. So. This is a properly submitted application to planning and zoning Yeah another issue.

02:01:01,630	We think that maybe argued is that in approval of this application for an amendment to the planned unit development constitutes spot zoning. Uh, and that again is false under clearly established North Dakota Case law spot zoning is involved where you have a single lot that’s being singled out and treated differently than all the other surrounding lots. The, North Dakota Supreme court in several cases, and I’ll give you a couple of citations.

02:01:21,230	Ha has determined That if you have multiple parcels involved, or if you if the Amendment to a zoning ordinance will have an economic benefit for the general welfare, uh, that that is not spot. Zoning. Uh uh. Does he have a couple of citations here. One is Dr. Dr.

02:01:43,830	versus burly County Board of County Commissioners 2015 North Dakota 183 and another one is big wood V city of Wahpeton 1997 North, Dakota 124. Um and then in in the the big wood versus City of Wahpeton case in particular, Uh, you had a situation where you had, uh, an area zoned as industrial and some of the owners out there wanted to change the zoning to

02:02:06,600	multifamily to allow an apartment complex to go in for low income housing, and that was a challenge that people thought that was spot zoning because you’re treating this parcel as differently than the surrounding parcels. The Supreme Court said. No. This is not spot zoning for, uh, there’s for one thing.

02:02:24,830	This is for the Welfare of the county because there’s a need for low income housing. Um and also there were multiple parcels involved because they were going to split it up into multiple parcels. After the they, uh, had the zoning change now.

02:02:47,130	In our situation here should be kept in mind that There would be an economic benefit to Burle County and the city here by approving this part amendment because you’re gonna have expanded square footage buildable areas you’re going to have higher tax base. You’re gonna have higher taxable values for these properties because you’re gonna have bigger homes built out there.

02:03:03,130	You’re gonna be able to the the Los themselves will be worth more because people are willing to pay more because they can put more on their property out there. Um, So just wanted to to point that out. The And as Mr Bke pointed out earlier, too. You have other issues as far as If. The party is not amended. And you have Multiple non complying structures out there.

02:03:34,600	Uh, you’ve got you’re gonna have these issues of a potential. Um, a potential for a lot of litigation between various parties who have been involved with title transactions out there in the past or in the future. We relating to whether or not there’s setback, violations are going to have issues getting mortgages for properties out there moving forward. Um So.

02:03:56,000	It could have a ripple effect in terms of potential litigation if we don’t get it cleaned up now and again, All we’re asking for is to have the putt amended to accurately reflect the way the city and the HO a have historically interpreted and applied the the rear yard setback for bay. Lots out there. That’s All.

02:04:15,730	These homes are all approved by the city. Uh, The. Only difference Now is the Supreme court is now made their own determination that the city and the HO a misinterpreted the language that’s in the pot.

02:04:31,200	So We’re just asking the city to put in some clarifying language that no, this is really what we meant, and we wanted to be be the drainages moving forward. Uh, the last argument I I I’m anticipating maybe raised is that, uh, Previously? The City had denied a variance request out there in misty waters for the Lundstrom. Found No. Excuse me in that situation.

02:05:01,830	The Lundstrom, Uh, developer had submitted a survey with their building permit application that did not disclose the location of the 2005 Lomer line, And instead, it just showed the drainage easement. Uh, the 30 ft Yard, Uh, 30 ft setback and after they installed and they got the approved building permit, based on that survey after they installed their concrete foundation, it was discovered that well, wait a Your your foundation extends

02:05:23,170	beyond the 2005 Lomer line and when the correct information was submitted, then the city, uh, denied the variance request. Now, the the the difference There is that The original permit application. In. That case was submitted based on incorrect information in all of our cases with all of our applicants. All.

02:05:49,470	The information was provided up front. Uh, In fact, I know on the seller’s situation. The original building permit included a survey map that showed the 2005 law mow line going right through the middle of the home. And, So.

02:06:06,800	Uh, it was approved based on that and and has been mentioned previously, the city did require the sellers to go and re, uh, obtain and updated. Uh, Lomar, uh, for their property specific from FA to move the Lamar line, uh, based on changed in elevation on the property with the addition of Phil, which they did They complied with that. And, um Yeah. The House received a certificate of occupancy after all that was completed.

02:06:32,500	Uh and unfortunately subsequently the North Dakota Supreme Court. Had a different interpretation of what the PUD language as it currently reads means. So there again. We’re just asking the, uh, city to amend the PUD language to be consistent with the restrictive covenant as they’ve now been amended and to be consistent with the historical, uh, interpretation and application of the rear

02:06:53,730	yard setbacks under the planned unit development. Any questions? Commissioners. Commissioners, uh, questions for Sean. Yes, Comm. Bitner. Thank you. Um You mentioned the the planned unit development a couple times. Right. And. Then you referenced Um L Lundstrom. Was it with with the various requests, right? Correct. And, uh, 1005 Line is is What affected them.

02:07:34,870	That is correct. It was what did they have to do? I mean what? What was the result of that, so ultimately, I don’t know. All. I know is that the variance request was denied What happened after that? I don’t know. OK.

02:07:55,670	So is that the same line? That applies to your Applicant it? It’s the same 2005 Lomar line now, of course when the Lundstrom issue, uh The issue to keep in mind is that The 2005 Lomar line as it applies to the seller’s property.

02:08:22,870	The city Instructed the sellers to obtain an, um uh Alomar F from FEMA to move that line to address that lower issue because the city previously interpreted the planned unit development language as meaning that the Lo L was a movable line. It was only the lower line approved for that specific law. When. It came time to issue the certificate of occupancy. I understand that? Yeah and the change? I was just asking if it was the same line that we’re talking about. Sure.

02:08:41,070	It is the same line. Yes. And. I. Guess before I. Ask for more questions. Uh, we do have more presentation to make you rather have questions after everyone’s finished their presentation. Commissioners. What are your wishes? Proceeding. Just just a few additional topics to to cover. Um so I.

02:09:09,270	I know the commission and the city and the county don’t like to get involved in in in matters where there’s pending litigation. Um, I. We totally understand that This, however, is a different situation.

02:09:33,330	Uh, and one of the things I that I think is important here is that the sellers and all these other homeowners complied with all the applicable requirements and obtained all the applicable approvals from the the city and from the homeowners Association. That’s What sets this case apart because here we are now with the North Dakota Supreme Court. Saying that that that, um information the 2005 Lomar line is a static line and and that the city and the homeowners association misinterpreted that. And.

02:09:57,930	So that’s the difference here, and that’s why you need to get involved is because these homeowners did everything they were required to do. And. In addition, in the seller’s case, they got approval from FEMA. They did everything the city asked them they did everything the homeowners association asked them to do and they did everything FM asked them to do.

02:10:18,730	They didn’t just willy nilly start building this house, and I think the other important thing to keep in mind in in terms of the pending lawsuit is the burgers who are the the the next door neighbors who are requesting the seller’s home to be torn down and asking for the judge to issue an order

02:10:38,400	requiring that this September The burgers still have legal remedies. In this case, this isn’t the only trial is the one in September. Unfortunately for for for the sellers. They there.

02:10:57,730	There’s not in this case really light at the end of the tunnel for them because they’re faced with a second trial, a jury trial that’s scheduled in January of 2025 on the monetary damages. For that the burgers are requesting in this case, so that’s important to keep in mind.

02:11:17,170	It’s not like the burgers are left without a remedy Here they they have a right and there is going to be a jury trial in January of this year where the jury is going to determine Both as to the sellers and to the Misty Waters Homeowners Association who is also a party to this what monetary damages the burgers are entitled to recover. As, a result of their their claims.

02:11:42,600	Now, some of you may be asking yourself well, why, if there’s other homes that are out of compliance, other lots impacted by by this, uh, this new North Dakota Supreme Court decision. Why are there only eight applicants and there’s several very logical explanations. For that and and there’s multiple reasons. Number one. In the case of the sellers. We’re talking about their home being torn down in order.

02:12:06,600	Which typically has to be complied with with within a number of days. Whatever number of days, The judges said that they’re facing that, uh, this September, so just a few months away the other homes that are out of compliance are not facing that. Um, And. The. Other thing is that the Reese’s home has already been determined to be out of compliance. So.

02:12:26,800	They’re next. So. When is that shoe win fall. Is that gonna be In. October. November, we we? Is that gonna be, um and so that that could happen much sooner than these other homes might get involved. Um, I. If the commission today says this application is granted for the eight applicants.

02:12:47,200	It may be that the trial in September is moot that it’s not necessary that the court might agree and recognize that the seller’s home under the amended PUD has now come into compliance with the existing requirements and therefore they may not face that prospect. Of course.

02:13:09,070	Um, I’ve been doing this long enough to never predict what a court Will do? Uh, what a judge will decide, but that would be a significant factor for the court. Decision and the other thing to keep in mind here is as to other people who are in violation. You know this is a costly process to get involved in an amended TU.

02:13:27,230	You got a hire engineers. You got to hire attorneys. You got to submit the application. Uh, it’s a lot of engineering fees. A lot of attorneys fees a lot of time. If. This commission says Yes. We’re going to approve this.

02:13:48,530	That is probably gonna serve as guidance for future requests by other homeowners in mis misty waters that are out of compliance. Um, And. Another. Reason is we now have a situation where The The the requirement in terms of where the home can be built. In other words, that static line which is the 2005 Lomar line is in direct conflict with the restrictive covenants. So.

02:14:12,730	How can any builder or homeowner who wants to build build a home in misty waters? They can’t there’s a conflict there? They can’t both comply with the restrictive covenants and comply.

02:14:31,830	With what the city has said they have to comply because of the North Dakota Supreme court decision so no homes can be built in misty waters until this is addressed by this commission, hopefully, in a a favorable in favor of these applicants. So let’s stalling development in Misty waters is not good for the city, and it’s not good for for burly county So. We I.

02:14:51,670	I talked a little earlier about the surveys and the 17 homes or up to 17 homes that may be out of compliance what the city has said, is that You need to survey those homes to see if they are out of compliance with the 2005 Lamar line, and the city will pay for that. That process has not yet been completed.

02:15:09,730	In fact we understand that in the case of at least one homeowner Who is believed to be out of compliance. He will not agree that a survey can be done. Either independently or or by the city. So how long is it gonna take for that process to play itself out as the city going to have to sue homeowners who refuse to have a survey is that going? Is that litigation going to take a year? Two years

02:15:27,870	and in the meantime, no development can occur and Mr seller’s home comes down and Reese Homes come down. Another home comes down the next month, so this is an urgent matter.

02:15:50,000	And that explains why Really no more than these eight applicants could be, uh, in involved, Um and you know These applicants are not asking for any special treatment. From this commission. They’re just asking to be allowed to keep their home. In, the location. The City approved. The homeowners Association approved and and nothing more. Um, and this particular cul de sac is unique.

02:16:16,630	And that’s why just these eight applicants as well, in the respect that that Lamar Line the 2005 is further inland in this particular Cul-de-sac. Than. It is in many other locations. That’s just where the Lomar line fell based on elevation. And. So.

02:16:36,270	What happens with homes that are not as elevated as they bring in film material, and then they get it approved and they build on the fill after it gets approved by the city and the Homeowners Association and in the past by FEMA. They’re not doing that anymore. So. There’s many logical, uh, explanations as to why these applicants need to be addressed first. Um and I mentioned the cloud on the title, the mortgage issues and so on. And. Finally. I would say this, I. Think Comm.

02:16:58,430	smart, Schwartz said something important. In, just one of the previous hearings a few moments ago, he said. It’s, he said, it’s about being a good neighbor and doing the right thing. These applicants were good neighbors. They did the right thing.

02:17:22,130	They got all the required Approvals from the city and the homeowners Association, and they should not be penalized for doing that by having their homes torn down. Or to have these clouds on their titles or mortgage problems.

02:17:42,930	Or any of these other issues and so be happy to take any questions that you might have either for Mr guns or Mr Reynolds, right? Commissioners questions if I may Mr Chair just to clarify a couple of things and add one comment, Uh, first of all I want to thank him for pointing out the error in the line color actually corrected that and then I grabbed the wrong version when I brought it here, but I think the important part is when you talk about the Lamar line being moved.

02:17:57,330	The ordinance right now is based on an elevation. In my opinion. You can move it. You can move the Lamar line. The sellers move the Lamar line in 2006 the Lomar line for properties Long Dream Drive going north. Were modified. There was a 2006 Lamar that moved that line out. Unfortunately the court not looking at that.

02:18:19,730	Those properties are now stuck with that 2005 Lomar line, even though the 2006 gave them the ability to build their houses. So. It can be moved. That’s the process, so it’s unfortunate that everybody’s in this situation where it is right now.

02:18:39,000	The effective setback has always been The upper end of the stormwater or the drainage easement, and that’s the request. That’s for you, so I’ll stand for questions. Thank you. True. Mr Bittner. Thank you, Mr Really, um We’ve heard a little bit about the the significance of time. And I’m just asking in your opinion.

02:19:05,130	Um, if if we you or me or somebody was to request the court to allow more time before a decision is made on that. Is that possible. Have you in your experience? Has, a bona fide reason for a delay been considered by the court.

02:19:28,600	It has we did that very thing? Um, a number of months ago, and the court issued an order denying that request because the court said, I can’t hold this. The mandate of the North Dakota Supreme court up any further. And so the the significance of the time is based on the Supreme Court’s No, It’s, It’s based on the order from the District Court judge that the case went to the North Dakota Supreme Court, the North Dakota Supreme court reversed it, in

02:19:47,470	part, sent it back to the district court where it is now in Burle County. And. The Burle County judge has said in response to our motion to delay this until the the commission makes a decision that she would not be willing to do that beyond September, so our request has been made in that

02:20:07,170	regard and denied. That’s why this is so urgent. So would additional information help that request, and there’s a reason I’m asking, and I’ll and I’ll be quite frank. That, Mister sellers, and I don’t know him, which one of the folks is that is, but Um, we were talking.

02:20:26,600	He called me yesterday and we discussed that and It seems to me just in general terms that a change in a PUD on this entire development should be what we’re looking at. Because it looks to me like we’re helping one person in the boat or two that are currently impacted and there’s what 17 That are impacted with another 15 lots that are undeveloped.

02:20:51,870	I’m wondering if if we had enough time with the surveys, the city has agreed to pay for and what? Not to Where. Um, we established the realistic line for the entire subdivision because it seems to me that going down this path we’re gonna have a a whole bunch of requests that lead to a lot of

02:21:11,670	time and money for a lot of people. And, So. I was just curious if you felt there was additional information based on this proceeding. That we could Allow more people to address That for everybody versus just Yeah and and I think the answer to that is is multifaceted. Number one.

02:21:34,800	We don’t know that some people that are out of compliance would ever join in that effort. There might be some people that refuse so we can’t control that number two. We don’t know how long this this process. This survey process is going to take and the the rationale for any subsequent applicants to request their amended.

02:21:57,470	P is going to be the same as A little bit different facts because they’re not faced by AAA mandate from the Supreme Court that that a judge has said will likely need to be enforced in their house comes down. They’ll maybe get a little more breathing room than that. But. That’s gonna be the ultimate result.

02:22:14,670	So I think there’s actually a significant cost savings by approaching it this way in getting this one hopefully approved by the commission and then the others who are Willing to get involved can can follow and you’ll probably just have one additional application, which will be based on the same engineering base and the same legal basis as this one. So II.

02:22:39,170	I would suggest it’s going to be more costly and and we could be a year, two years down the road before you know you heard all those cats into a single one. All. The. Surveys are done, everyone signs on and there may be some who just say I’m not interested.

02:22:59,470	Um so I think I think that it’s this is a much more efficient Process both in terms of time. Uh and financial and other resources. OK Just one more question. Can you please. How did. How, did we? How? How did we did I could address the issue to There are a number of properties. Where the 2005 Lamar line.

02:23:21,500	Is already at The upland side of the storm, Water easement, so those properties are going to look at this and say, Why, would I even bother And I see that It’s the erratic nature of that line, So.

02:23:36,800	I think that’s important to understand that the context of trying to get everybody on board there are some that don’t need to be. My choice so Thank you? Well somewhat speaks to my next question is how How was it determined that there’s 17 properties out of compliance? Well. The City is the one who made the and they did, and those aren’t necessarily out of compliance.

02:23:57,800	They got notifications, saying you may be out of compliance and that a survey needs to be completed and that the city will will pay for that is my understanding and Comm. Bitner. I can speak to that question. So. Um we did a more comprehensive view review after the Supreme court ruling of the bail lots in misty waters. When I say we It was staff.

02:24:18,570	Uh, Uh, basically, we looked at aerial photography, the latest aerial photography that we had versus a digital version of the 2005 static line, and just visually inspected is this home over is it Is it? Not? Is it close? Uh, it. It’s uh and it was in the determination through that visual analysis.

02:24:44,500	Um the GIS, Uh, data is is relatively accurate, but it’s not survey quality. So if it was Determined by staff that it’s really close. It might be on the line or within a matter of a few inches or a few feet.

02:25:01,270	We sent notice to those property owners requesting to survey their property to get a field survey to verify in the field where that structure was in relation to that Lomar line. Um we started that, uh, the beginning part of the year we did offer that Uh, either city of Bismarck staff.

02:25:20,030	We had a registered land surveyor at the time we could come out and survey their property to make that verification or if they chose to hire their own registered land Surveyor, uh, they could go that route as well. Uh, we’ve heard back from a total of eight individuals which which we received surveys from and it was actually 18 properties that we sent notice to, uh, I. I should notice we we noticed.

02:25:42,570	We gave notice to one an incorrect That should have been sent to a different address. So it was a total of of 18 that we sent notice to. We’ve we’ve confirmed eight of those, Uh, four of those We verified, uh, are not in violation and for those are in violation.

02:26:04,270	We have a total of 10 left that, uh, we we have to survey to to verify essentially, um In the interim of this happening, uh are internal, uh, I. I guess resources to have a registered land surveyor.

02:26:26,670	We know we no longer have those services, so we’re kind of putting, you know more pre, Uh, more more, Uh, pressing time to go out and offer those, uh, services until we get a A And if we get a registered land surveyor hired again. So. Um we we we We couldn’t have the ability to go out and and survey those for free. We.

02:26:44,870	We would need to basically consult out for those or or the the private homeowner would need to to provide provide that Through, a registered land surveyor, the city offered to pay for those services. We did. Yes we we offered to do them because we had the in in staff in-house resources at the time to do. Yeah. That’s fine. My question was just how did we figure out that there was 17 in violation result? So OK, Thank you.

02:27:04,070	Thank you Comm. Bitner commissioners. Additional questions for Randy. Randy. I’m not seeing or hearing anything. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Bill Harry and I Am, an attorney who represents the homeowners board. I’ll give you a little bit of background. I was hired by auto owners insurance company in the lawsuit brought by the burger.

02:27:34,500	The burgers brought a lawsuit against the sellers and against the Homeowners Association. Auto owners hired me to represent the homeowners Association. I want to make clear that even though uh, auto owners pays my bills, many of you probably already know this.

02:27:57,070	The law and ethic rules say that my client is very clearly the homeowners Association, which is really why I’m here today. To ask this commission to to support this. Amendment to the pod. Um So from a practical standpoint, randy has touched on a lot of things I do want to reiterate one of the things, he said at the end. It doesn’t matter what you do here today.

02:28:20,430	If you grant this That doesn’t gut Their lawsuit. All it means is that they can’t tear down the seller’s home or that other homes like the Reeses or the other persons that Mr Era talked about. Can’t be torn down, they still have their remedy, but and to answer your question, Mr Bittner.

02:28:44,400	There is, I would say about a 0% chance that this judge is going to continue the trial first to determine if the House should be to torn down in August, and then the trial. January.

02:29:02,530	She was very clear on that I would this case had been been on the docket for a long time The courts want to move that along? I don’t see any chance of that happening, but I want to talk with you about the number of potential ramifications. If. In fact this amendment is not granted. And let’s say that the seller’s house is torn down. Frankly. That is reason enough. But. Add in the fact that the Reese’s house and others are affected.

02:29:27,070	This has potential enormous ramifications for the homeowners Association, so I represent the homeowners Association the people that I dealt with were volunteers, a couple of board members who really didn’t want to be board members. Um, but they were Mr McCormick ran this for many, many years. Theresa Reese was on the A RC or the Architectural Control Committee for years as well. He ran it.

02:29:49,670	He was the one that approved these homes, including the Resus. So. If. You blame the Homeowners Association, then you have to blame goes a lot of places. But. The. Ramifications of this are huge, so auto owners has a $1 million liability policy. Frankly.

02:30:12,000	I’m not worried about if this case goes if they’re suing us and their claim against us for negligence, breach of fiduciary duty. I think we can defend those? I don’t mean to talk about the merits, but and I don’t think the damages would approach anywhere near that. But. I will say this if the seller’s house is torn down.

02:30:33,270	Who’s gonna pay for that? If that comes back against the homeowners Association, who is the homeowners Association? It isn’t the board board members are immune unless they act grossly negligent or willfully. I believe it’s what the covenants say. The homeowners Association is made up of individual property owners. That’s what I’m concerned about. I’m concerned about the liability exposure to property owners.

02:30:55,730	I went and spoke at their annual meeting last December and I told him exactly that, and I’m still concerned about that, and I’m even more concerned now because auto owners has now issued what they call a reservation of rights, so what that means is a reservation of rights is saying We’ll defend you? We’ll pay your legal fees. But.

02:31:15,400	We’re not gonna guarantee that we’re gonna pay any judgment and I don’t mean to bore you with the language. I could provide you with a letter. But the letter says We don’t expect based upon the allegations that we’re going to indemnify you, so that’s at risk. But, Regardless of whether or not they pay a judgment.

02:31:32,570	The cost of tearing down the seller’s homes. It probably Several million, then you add in others, and we’re talking enormous ramification for these particular homeowners that concerns me. And. That’s Why I’m here today and to urge you to pass this proposed amendment. So When. I spoke at that particular meeting.

02:31:59,870	I was told that I was accused of spreading scare tactics. And I was told The murders got up. Tammy got up and said, Well, You’re not gonna face any personal exposure. It’s absolutely I saw it. So. Then. I said. OK. I even called their attorney at the time, nick Grant, and I said nick If. You’re gonna say that.

02:32:20,000	Then you tell me that you’re gonna waive any claims if there is excess judgments. Or provide us with indemnification, meaning you’ll pay us back. Fell on deaf ears. I have never heard back. There was no assurances given at that time that tells you everything.

02:32:42,730	That tells you that speaks volume about the risk to these individual property owners who didn’t sign up for this, nor do these board members. So these board members and I think Teresa Reese will tell you. They thought that the Lomar line was always The boundary easement. Why because that’s the way I’ve been practiced for years, the city had done that.

02:32:59,200	And if you’re looking for the city to be the scapegoat, the city is not gonna be sued in this lawsuit. It’s far too late. Not. Only that they’re there’s something called the public duty doctrine. They’re immune, and I am not blaming the city.

02:33:15,670	I’m just saying that if you’re looking for them to to take the fall for this, it’s not going to be It’s gonna fall in the individual property owners and the sellers. And that’s not fair. So is a practical matter. Um There is Not only the the exposure but This. This could really turn into a nightmare for a lot of property owners out there who’s gonna want to serve on a board for this volunteers paid for nothing. If.

02:33:39,400	They’re making critical decisions like this, and they’re gonna be second guess for everything they do. So just to sum up planning and zoning needs to act and provide certainty. I agree 100% with Mr Baki. This is the only way we can do this at this time, and there is absolute urgency on this.

02:33:58,270	We can’t wait because of the trial coming up. The Burgers still have their day in court. They can seek damages if they can prove that the sellers did something wrong if they can prove their damages, and they can sue the homeowners, or they can recover if they can prove the homeowners Association did something wrong and they can prove damages.

02:34:17,530	They just then can’t remove this home. And, the consequences that comes from that. If this Commission acts today. And approves this and the City Commission also approves this. We’re probably curbing an awful lot of litigation, and that’s my goal here. My goal is nobody wants more litigation.

02:34:42,130	I can tell you that board members don’t I can tell you that the property owners in misty waters didn’t sign up for that. They don’t want that. That’s Why 73% plus Signed a petition to amend the restrictive covenants. If. You, do this, You avoid more litigation. I know you.

02:35:05,630	There’s been a lot of people talking already, and it’s been a long night for you so I will conclude there if you have any questions of me, be happy to answer. Comm. questions for Bill. I’m not seeing or hearing any bill. Thank you all right? Thank you. The podium is open for others that would care to address this agenda item. My name is jason Sellers.

02:35:38,270	Um I’m here tonight with my wife, Christa Sellers. Good put a face with the voice. Likewise, um This is gonna be hard for me to read. It’s been a lot a long battle for my family. Um I’m married. I have two kids that are five and eight. Um, we live at 654 Dream Circle.

02:36:07,530	Um in 2019, my wife and I started to build our forever home Our dream home. The home. We. You know we wanted to be in the water. We wanted to be, you know, do things on the water. Um, I grew up in the water. Um And.

02:36:25,770	Ah, we just wanted to raise our family, you know, in the county, um on the water, and we love being up north, and it was just A. Great opportunity for us, Um The lot we chose was price significantly higher than some of the other lots because it was a premium lot, And. You know, we, um We wanted to build a bigger home. So that’s why we, you know, chose a lot.

02:36:45,570	We did had a larger, um, waterfront in the back. Um, that was important to us. Uh, we went through the process. Um, and the one thing we did with our builder was we make sure that all of our eyes were dotted all of our TS were crossed.

02:37:03,030	We made sure that we got every approval from the HO A from the city of Bismarck from FEMA everything that we were asked of us. We did for the fast last four years. We’ve been fighting to save our home. This dress. It’s caused my family. Is unexplainable. We live on Dream Circle. It’s ironic. Yeah, we feel like we’ve been living a nightmare. From. The stress and pressure of the situation.

02:37:54,800	It is it is God’s health and mental health issues for us. Panic attacks at times for me, my wife and I can’t sleep. Um I’ve been to the emergency room one time because of a panic attack in regards to this Um We’ve lost time with our family and kids fighting this.

02:38:17,330	The time that we’ll never get back with our family spent fighting a lawsuit. Fighting something that we got every approval to do. Our kids are young. They don’t understand what’s going on, nor they understand. Potentially having to move. Out of their home. It’d be devastating to us. Put your family in our shoes. You, Build your dream home and get all required approvals.

02:38:51,670	That you’re at the jeopardy of losing. You’re home. It’s terrible. It’s a terrible feeling, like, Can’t imagine, you know, having to explain it to our kids. It gives me even more anxiety thinking about that. In 2023 as you heard the North Dakota Supreme Court ruled that in 2005 the Lomar line. Was was a fixed set back line.

02:39:18,070	Yet from day one. The City, the HO A and the original developer Steve. McCormick interpreted the setback as the interior edge of the drainage easement. Just so you understand where the 2005 Lomar line lands in my home.

02:39:38,370	It goes through the entire center of my home That would leave us with a garage, a laundry room, a half bath and an entryway into my main floor. You can’t just modify our home. You’d have to tear it down. It cost us over $3 million to do this.

02:40:00,770	We will be left with a property that is almost unsellable and borderline may not even be a a buildable per the requirements of square footage for the covenants. We potentially may not be able to build our house on our lot if that were to happen. This would be devastating to our family a smaller home but not accommodate our family. And. This is why we purchased this lot to begin with. Currently.

02:40:20,100	There’s a bench trial set for September is, um randy, and those spoke about For, my neighbors. The burgers are requesting a judge to order our dream home to be torn down. This decision. To be made by the judge, not a jury. A bench trial.

02:40:40,870	And there’s a tremendous amount of stress involved in having To proceed towards this trial, knowing the judge may be forced to order our dream home to be torn down, not to mention the other. 18 plus potential homes that receive letters from the city. That. Their home may be in violation as well. I understand the burgers are focused on their lawsuit claims.

02:40:59,500	I know I understand the burgers are focusing their lawsuit claims on just one home on our home. But. Many other homes in misty waters are in the same situation as US Their homes are beyond the 2005 Alomar line, so in violation like ours, those homes that also need to be brought into compliance.

02:41:18,400	This puts the development at risk for millions and millions of dollars. Mm. If. The Beauty was changed today. That may mean the September bench trial may not be necessary. But. We’re running out of time. We need to take the step in the right direction. And that is why What you have in front of you today. A vote yes, resolves the issue for our home.

02:41:42,270	For this part It also helps Reese’s home and makes a set back consistent with other property owners on the application. It also provides a pathway for others that are in the same scenario and missed a resolve Mr waters to resolve it. As.

02:42:02,100	You can see much of the development in the 2005 Lamar line is the same location as the drainage easement and the majority of the development a lot of those property owners don’t necessarily need to move their line. They got to build back to the dating achievement, which should be the same for everybody. GV puts our call de sac, which has the largest Lomar line discrepancy to most of the rest of the development.

02:42:19,600	It also It is also my understanding that One of the homeowners is refusing to have a survey done on their property. So like Randy was saying, trying to get some of the other.

02:42:42,770	Stuff homeowners together to get surveys done to apply, you know, se, or apply differently, Um They’re just not it could take years. To do and it’s already taken. You know how long to get Eight surveys done of the total people that receive letters. In past public meetings with the city. The City Commission made a comment that The City would like to see what the misty waters property were misty waters. Property owners stand on this.

02:43:11,870	A petition was recently circulated and the property owners at misty waters or repetitions, recently circulated for the property owners of misty waters to change the covenants where the rear yard setback would be the interior edge of the drainage easement. Per the covenants. You need 67% of all resident lot owners to sign off on this.

02:43:30,630	We received over 73% of resident lot owners that were in favor of changing the setback and many that we couldn’t even get a hold of that probably would have been in favor. Today. Many of those property owners are here. Can. I get a raise of hands as who’s from misty waters.

02:43:50,470	Yes, we can ask Can. I get a raise of hands of who is in favor of the beauty change. That’s in front of us today. As you can see demonstrated. There’s very few people. For the number of people that signed off on the petition. That aren’t in favor. Actually. There’s the people that aren’t in favor.

02:44:22,570	Probably can count less. You know I probably can count on one hand a property owners. Um, there could be a couple extra, but it’s very, very low in comparison to the ones that are in favor. But. Not only does this provide a solution that helps the applic that helps Today’s applicants, including myself.

02:44:44,870	But it also gives a path forward for others in the same situation. So again. I ask you Today to vote yes. And please help us. Thank you for your time. Any questions. Commissioners. Questions for Jason. Yes. Comm. Bitner.

02:45:10,500	I don’t know if we talked about this yesterday, but Why are there only eight applicants if there’s so many people raising their hand that agree to the thing? Why are, why are they not? So like joined in the application. Some hadn’t had surveys done yet. Um, a. A. Lot of this has been in the works, right? I get that, But. I mean they’re they signed the The thing in the absence of an easement.

02:45:31,300	Why, are they? Not? So? Some of the heart of the application so some of their properties don’t aren’t in violation. Not. Everybody That’s here isn’t is not everybody that’s here is in violation.

02:45:49,000	They don’t have to have a survey or be in violation to ask to be on the I was just thinking that maybe they should be on the application as well. Because it’s No. We’re we’re being asked to do a a small thing. And. I think a lot more people are affected by it. And. I’m just seeing if we can You know, help. The whole development is what I was hoping I didn’t can I help respond to that? The. Other answer on.

02:46:14,530	That is even for people who aren’t necessarily affected by this having the rear the inland edge of the rear setback is available space to add on to their home is a huge benefit so they could they could build a bigger deck or or they could add something out further in their lawn.

02:46:34,270	So it’s not just People are going to have to tear down the homes. That’s Why so many people I believe are in favor of this but are not necessarily applicants is there’s a benefit to everyone. There’s a benefit to the burgers. They can now extend their their their deck further. So.

02:46:52,470	That’s Why so many people I believe are in favor. It’s It’s good for everybody. Even the people who are against it. I agree. That’s why I’m asking if they you know, can they be added to the application or is it just Too late. The. The Challenge would be the I. I think we’d have to identify which property owners.

02:47:14,370	I mean it. It would take beyond just this meeting to do that, if you wanted to. You know. Continue this meeting to a later date? That would be a possibility.

02:47:34,530	Uh, certainly, but the the sort of the hang up that has been discussed the way the PUD amendment in our ordinance is is written in order to apply for an amendment. Basically the ones who are impacted need to need to be the applicant so every every every property that will be impacted by this change needs to be an applicant. And so that would that would take a little bit of effort, I. I would suspect to do. It wouldn’t happen tonight.

02:47:51,130	It But probably take it at least till next month. Uh, I if it could even be done by them, So. I was just curious because so many people raise their hands and there’s so many people on there that it seems like Maybe. They should be part, you know. And.

02:48:05,670	I think eventually they will, But. This, As we’ve said is an urgent situation for the sellers and the Rees and the people on this. I understand that I asked about the possible delay. I think some will follow. Yeah. Any more questions. Johnson. So when I looked at the original ordinance it it.

02:48:30,600	It’s kind of vague, but it says The Contour line of Walmart is a setback so it it doesn’t sound like you cross that line lightly like you explored that very much and and didn’t just say, Well. We’re gonna build to the 20 ft. Set back and Just do it. You must have had a lot of conversations. Um, that Clarified.

02:48:49,330	And Mel You made you feel, uh, confident, moving forward that the Lomar line was not a Horizontal meats and balance, uh, definition, but it was elevation in his few extend that elevation or raise it. You can go to the 20 ft setback.

02:49:07,400	Is that right? And? Um, one of the people that’s gonna speak tonight is our builder and he can go over the details of the timeline and how that all you know worked out because again, I You know I hired somebody to build my home. And. Um, you know, he can explain that tho those details and that process and all that, But.

02:49:23,700	Yeah, I mean to to change the Lomar and, uh, and to do all that we did bring in filter and we did have to get approval for it. And, we did have a filter form that was approved by the HO A. You know another approval that we had received.

02:49:40,170	Um, you know, so I mean we’re very upfront about what we’re doing from the very beginning, and all of it was strategically planned out and approved. Thank you. But not built beyond. The Met. Commissioners. Any additional questions. Jason. Just Verifying your house was built in one year. Uh, was started in 2019 2000. Yeah. Ok. Thank you. Thank you.

02:50:10,930	The podium is open for others that would care to speak to this jerk item. My name is Jordan Anderson. Hello, everyone like I said. My name is Jordan Anderson. I Am, the owner of Big River builders. I apologize if I reiterate a few points. I have a statement that I prepared. I plan to just read from that verbatim.

02:50:46,930	I built the seller’s home, which is over the 2005 Lomar line and misty waters. I was sued by the burgers as well. But, the North Dakota Supreme Court dismissed the Burger’s lawsuit claims against me after several years of litigation. I would like to say a few words today from my perspective as a builder and the process as I went through when building my client’s home.

02:51:09,200	When building a home. There are two things that are of the utmost importance before breaking ground that is obtaining approval from the HO A and the Architectural Review Committee, if applicable and obtaining a building permit through either the city county or township in some cases. The size, scope and nature of the home.

02:51:28,500	I was going to be building for the sellers was not lost on me. I knew it was going to be an ambitious project. This is why I did my due diligence six months ahead of time prior to breaking ground.

02:51:48,270	I set up a meeting with the Architectural Review Committee in order to discuss our project, answering any questions they may have and ultimately get approval. During that time. There was zero mention of a Lomar line in relation to a rear yard setback. The drainage easement was brought up and discussed, often as the rear yard building perimeter. That was always the main concern of the A RC at that time. During that same period.

02:52:10,600	I also opened up a line of dialogue with the city of Bismarck in order to get out ahead of any issues they may have had with our project, mostly concerning elevation and floodplain development, as we were within the floodplain, and we wanted to ensure we were lifted out of both the 105 100 year Flood plain.

02:52:28,370	It was at this time I brought up the Lomar line. I wanted to make sure I was reading the language properly, referring to the elevation I needed to be absolutely certain that I was building to the right elevation and within all of the necessary setbacks provided by both the city of Bismarck and the Architectural Review committee.

02:52:48,600	I filled out all of the necessary documentation, including additional documents needed for homes built within the floodplain. This also includes a survey of the home, including all setbacks, the drainage easement. And the low line I was then given my building permit.

02:53:11,470	At this point I had went above and beyond what most builders do in order to obtain necessary permissions. I provide a 3D renderings of our plan, including the retaining wall pool and rough landscaping design. I asked additional questions regarding specific language pertaining to the Lomar and the elevations I had face to face meetings with the A RC in order to flush out any possible problems or questions that may arise.

02:53:32,900	I had also had several conversations with the city of Bismarck, Floodplain administrator. All of this was roughly 4 to 6 months prior to breaking ground. With that said, I had approvals in hand and began construction. I had the certainty US builders look for when getting permission to build a new home. If.

02:53:54,200	US builders can’t rely on the very governing bodies that allow these permissions. How on Earth is a homeowner or client going to understand the nuance of preconstruction requirements and documentation. I can safely say the homeowners when building a home often have little to nothing to do with the permitting process and architectural review.

02:54:15,600	Builders and clients alike rely on the certainty and finality of these approvals. In march of the next year, based on another homeowner’s complaint, it was complaint. It was claimed that the city and the HOA had allowed the sellers home to be built beyond the applicable rear yard setback. Approvals for homes beyond the Lomar line. Go back a decade now or more.

02:54:36,330	We were then drug into a lawsuit filed by the neighbors of the home We were building The home was two thirds construct, constructed at the time and our only option at the time was to go through the Lomar F process through FEMA at the request of the city, which we did.

02:54:53,400	FEMA approved the seller’s home as built. I strongly encourage this commission to approve the amended PUD request for the eight applicants. A vote for no opens 12 to 15 sounds like possibly 18 other builders up to possible litigation, all of which I’m certain received all required approvals from the city, including a building permit and HO a approval a vote.

02:55:17,570	No is a vote for the removal of several families from their homes while the home is either demolished or remodeled in a way they would not have chosen when designing their dream home in First place.

02:55:34,470	Not only will they have to settle for a home? They did not choose, but they would pay double, possibly triple their original investment to do so. Even, a homeowner with only a portion of their home past. The Lomar may still be forced to demolish and rebuild due to the property and layout constraints. Water homes are built with the back of their home being the most used area.

02:55:54,330	That means living rooms, dining rooms, master bedrooms, kitchens would need to be removed and somehow placed somewhere else within the home. For many of these homeowners a remodel may not be an option. A vote no means that if the houses are able to be left in place, but the setback remains they will still be marred with possible future litigation.

02:56:12,470	A clouded title and the inability to sell the home without disclosing the setback violation. Mortgage holders could catch wind of their investment being in violation and demand payment in full for their mortgages to protect against their own liability. 2nd and 3rd purchasers of these homes would be well within their rights to sue the person who sold them the home.

02:56:32,330	The realtor who brokered the deal, and the brokerage firm who employed the realtor, not to mention the looming exposure of the HO, A and the developers themselves. For these reasons I implore you to vote Yes.

02:56:52,370	About? Yes is a vote to put these county residents and their families at ease for something that was completely out of their control. Earlier discussed. Some members discuss representation. A vote yes would be in support of these county members and 73% of misty waters. County constituents. A vote Yes is a vote to solve a complicated problem with a cohesive, collaborative and reasonable solution. The. Residents of misty waters have made their voices heard loud and clear with their signatures.

02:57:18,370	A vote yes, will cement their wishes into law in order to protect their friends and neighbors and restore order in a community under distress. You guys have any questions? I can take them at this time. Commissioner’s questions for Jordan. Not seeing or hearing any. Thank you. Thank you.

02:57:45,470	The podium is open for others that would care to address the agenda item. OK? I. I’m Teresa Reese, My husband, Jim. Um, we are the second homeowner that has had the survey done on our lot. We are within that Lomar. So. I’d like to talk about that a little bit. Um, just a minute, please. OK. I’m not quite as eloquent as everybody else.

02:58:27,000	I’m Just gonna put out some bullet points and try and, um so I appreciate all of you listening to me. Um, a lot of the homeowners out there. Know me, Um, our house was built in Well. Let’s start from the start. We bought our lot in 2008. Um We were when we purchased our lot.

02:58:49,430	There was no Lomar line listed on any documentation we received. To start with We had no idea that we were going to have to do any type of approvals or anything when we went to build our house in 2009. When.

02:59:14,400	All of our surveys started and everything we found out that we had to raise our lot just to get a above just to get at the 1640 Flood plain. To build our lot, so our lot already was not usable. To find that out. Still. The Lomar was never identified. On any of our documentation that we received ever from the developers. Or from anybody.

02:59:42,200	The the developers nor The realtor that sold us the lot. Nobody Um, we did receive all approvals. Uh, Karen and Steve McCormick were the HO, a Architecture review committee. They were the committee at the time that we built We did. I’m I did go by everything written in the rest. Restrictive covenants.

03:00:05,730	I’m a very detailed person when it comes to making sure that we do what we’re supposed to do. Um, everything was submitted properly. Everything was approved all the way through the building process of our home. Still. The Lomar line was never identified by the McCormick’s either as the developer None of our diagrams.

03:00:26,770	Nothing that was submitted to the city was even there that identified this in this Lomar line. Um So. We raised our lot. Um, to be a to be above the required elevation. And at the rear drainage easement. That’s what it was. We moved in our house in 2010. I started working for the developers not working, volunteered.

03:01:00,130	They asked me to join the Architecture Review committee because I was very detailed and specific about. I was very organized with our plans. They asked me to help. Um, so one of the early people out there I drafted the architecture review committee guidelines and checkoff sheet. I drafted that the McCormick’s approved it, the developers approved it. There was nowhere in that sheet.

03:01:29,830	Regarding Alomar line, They approved it. I didn’t know it existed. Yeah. I knew that I knew that thing was in there. I knew that that pud was I’m not gonna. I knew the PD was in there. But. We thought that meant that 1640 elevation. So. We made sure that elevation Was on That requirement sheet. Again.

03:01:54,230	Nothing about a Lomar line didn’t know what it was the McCormick’s approved it. Um So I don’t know how many homes out there. That went through. The McCormick’s and me as the Architecture review Committee. That were the water that were the drainage easements. So.

03:02:22,030	I’m hearing tonight that there’s could possibly be I don’t know how many I was on. I was on it for many, many years. Before, the McCormick’s turned the HO a over to Got off the they They turned it over to the association to take care of the take care of the board when they step down off the board was when That happened. So.

03:02:45,100	There is a possibility that like everybody has told you there’s gonna be other homes that are coming into this. So. There have been many HOA members. There’s also been many other after me. H, a members that have volunteered or been asked to volunteer to be on the Architectural review committee, including the homeowner that doesn’t want this to happen.

03:03:10,470	Tami sat on the Architectural Review Committee board. Not once. Did she bring up a Lamar issue? Not once. So fast forward to 2021. We found out that our house could possibly be torn down. Because. There is a Lamar issue. We’ve lived there. Sense built bought our lot dream home.

03:03:38,300	Same as many of the other people in here. My. Neighbors haven’t said any. Our neighbors haven’t said anything to us. Yes. We are sitting further back. We could be In We are probably in In their view of the bay, but It’s A. It’s a corner lot. You had you You’re on the water.

03:03:58,530	You have tons of views. You have tons of area to view the water. So So 2024 current Jim and I have been married for 36 years. It took us many years to save for this house to save for this lot. We, too, have raised three kids. We thought this was going to be our forever home.

03:04:21,470	We designed this as our forever home. We have the whole main floor. As for jim and I. Our kids are upstairs. Um, so having to tear down or remove our home? Is a significant impact on us. There’s a good portion of our house.

03:04:44,470	We are sitting at what did we decide? So? Our home is 4300 square feet and we are looking at approximately 1500 square feet of our home being removed. That’s a significant amount because that’s where we live. That’s our main floor. That’s going to have to come down because Part amendment is not approved for our court. There’s.

03:05:08,570	There’s No cookie, There’s no cookie cutter home out there, every single one of us has had to go through this approval. And again. The Developers never never mentioned this Lomar on any approval process. It went from the developers, the the A RC from the developers to the air well, the architectural review Committee down came to you for approval. You guys approved it.

03:05:32,030	Based on our approval of the Architectural review Committee. No one knew. You didn’t know. That. There was an issue. Because. We didn’t know there was an issue. It’s a beautiful development. The growth is great. We’ve got some great neighbors out there. It’s a great place to raise your kid. It’s a great place to play.

03:05:56,030	It’s a great place to host family gatherings. We’ve done them all. And we don’t want to have to stop doing this because our home is on the top. I’m gonna get emotional and I’m gonna try not to Because our home is on the chopping block. So to speak.

03:06:11,930	That’s what I call it. This is a huge loss to us. There’s no possible way that we’re ever going to be able to rebuild this home if we have to tear it down. The cost of what it was in 2008, as you know. Is way more than it is right now.

03:06:48,330	Not only that if we choose not to, There’s always going to be a lien on our home. The Lien will go from us to our Children to their grandchildren. The house is worth nothing. Our home is worth nothing. Because we’re not going to be able to afford to tear it down and rebuild.

03:07:08,600	Nobody’s gonna want our lot because the Lomar line is so far close. You can’t build a custom home on that small one. I guess. My biggest thing is I’m not trying to point fingers at anybody. I’m just trying to start from the very beginning where all of this started because I was involved in it. To let everybody know.

03:07:35,730	It’s not This pod this Requirement for this Lomar line. May have been put in the restrictive covenants when the developers developed this land. However that Lomar line was never shared. Whether it was shared with the homeowners that purchase lots. Whether. It was with the city or the county. We never saw it. We never saw it. So. That’s I approved.

03:08:05,100	I appro Numerous homes. Which. I feel really bad about It bothers me that I approve these homes because now it I was part of that. And that hurts me. So With that I, just like I said. I’m gonna try and be short. I’m not eloquent. I’m shaky. I’m scared. I’m upset.

03:08:30,200	Um so I Hope, All of you Just think about the ones that all not not just our right now it is our It is our development right now. I mean it is our dream Court Dream Circle Court Right right now, that’s uh, that’s being affected by today. But. It’s not just today It’s the future of everybody else That’s out there Right.

03:08:47,330	Now I understand the urgency, Which is why I’m here, Which is why I’ve agreed. This needs to. I mean it needs to if it’s not approved today. The sellers, and I both have to tell tear down our homes. And the ripple effect to the community. But again.

03:09:10,970	It’s not just It’s not just me that’s affected because it’s gonna go from me. It’s gonna go back to the Misty Waters Association. It’s going to go back to the developers. It’s going to go back to the engineers. It’s gonna go back to the people who designed the entire development because we didn’t know So I It’s it. It’s hurtful. It’s scary. I’m done. Is there.

03:09:46,600	Any questions? Commissioners. Questions for Teresa. I’m not seeing any Theresa. Thank you? You did fine. Good. Evening. Good evening. Um uh, Mr, uh, Chair, uh, commissioners, uh, my name is John Erickson. I’m, a resident of Misty Waters, uh 6549 Misty Waters Drive, block 46. It’s been a long evening, so I’ll I’ll be brief.

03:10:23,430	Um, I just wanna Reiterate the point I. I believe that’s been made that, uh, the decision At the time for the 2005 law mark to be the real setback was not the right decision. Uh, it’s neither consistent or uniform.

03:10:48,530	Throughout that subdivision, um, that you would expect in a rare setback line and my lot is a good example of that. I’m, not part of the applicants tonight, but I, I stand in support of them. Um, I’m in lot 46 as I mentioned, which is on the northeast corner of the subdivision. Uh, that L line runs, uh, parallel on the west side of my lot.

03:11:07,930	Um, parallel right down at the drainage easement, And. Then. It cuts dial across my lot at least 25 30 ft all the way up across my lot. Um, it does not make sense, uh, as a rear setback. Um, if, uh, it it was enforced to be the rear setback. A.

03:11:28,470	Part of my home is likely to be also in violation of most likely one of the other 18 property owners that would be in violation. I have reached out to ben, uh, about getting a survey done. Uh, that has not been completed yet, but I intend to do so in the future.

03:11:47,830	Um, so with that, I just wanted to stand in support of tonight’s request as a homeowner, uh, out in the subdivision. And as you? Uh uh said, Um Ah, mister Chair, Uh, that resonated with me about being a good neighbor. Um, that’s why I came up here to speak. I’ve served on the board.

03:12:07,000	We built our home in 2013 the first time to go into misty water subdivision after the flood. Not at one time, uh, during our our time building that home, our builder happened to live in the subdivision. Uh, not once, Uh, was the 2005 Lomar line mentioned as the rear setback. We got all the approvals that were required. Uh, we’ve been there now for 11 years.

03:12:27,270	And now, uh, we may have, uh, an issue that we didn’t anticipate. So. It’s a great community a great place to raise a family. It’s great for Northwest Bismarck. Um and, uh, we’ve done a lot of good things out there, and, uh, it’d be nice to see this issue get passed behind, uh, our community.

03:12:48,670	I stan for any questions if you have any commissioners, questions for John Mister Bitner. Yeah just a basic question. I. Would a decision tonight help you Well, it would it help Inform me that, um, if if you voted in support of it, it helped for me.

03:13:15,870	Inform me to do my own application or work with the rest of the property owners that may be in violation to submit our own application, So. We do fully come and compliance II. I would I would say that it would be great if we could just eliminate There are the 2005 Lomar from strike it from the pud completely. Um, that would to your point Comm.. I think that does make sense.

03:13:37,200	But with the sense of urgency. Facing, uh, the sellers IN particular. I understand why, um They’ve chosen to go this route. I understand as well. I was just wondering how it affected you and I’m asking some questions of staff here that We’re kind of looking at some other answers, but yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Joan. Thank you.

03:13:59,870	I’m just writing my name quick and get on her Understand? Good evening. My name is Jeff Anderson and, uh, I’m, a resident out at Missy Waters. Uh, Two year, Uh, board of directors member Uh, And something hit me right away. As far as You know. How. Does this affect everybody How you know Well.

03:14:53,370	I’m a different different side here. I’m over on the on the Riverside and I still have concerns about this. Um, I have received a lot of comments. Talked with a number of homeowners supporting this amendment.

03:15:15,830	Of course when I hope for gathering the the, uh signatures and talking There is a lot of people that realize that it’s not changing, uh, they Initially didn’t think they really had a dog in the fight, but they do and for the same reason I do, but My. Main. Concern is the uncertainty where the line is the setback. And it That doesn’t affect me at all. As. Far as where my house is and on the Riverside.

03:15:38,500	It’s a whole different set of rules that that we’re dealing with. But The uncertainty. Uh, I feel we’ll continue to Slow keep the development slower out there. Uh, it. I’ve talked with the the Ark and and there’s a lot of Uh, builders at this point and Uh, homeowners are perspective owner holding monitors that are They’re concerned about this.

03:16:06,330	Because they At. This point They’re held up. They just don’t know when they can start and when they do start building What. What rules are they following? They want certainty? Just like well want certainty? And for the city, the HO. A.

03:16:27,270	Everybody needs that where we can go to the same set of rules and not look. Many different books, many different dates and all that, um I think it unless the commission approves the applicant’s request today, that uncertainty is well definitely continue. Uh, not only to slow down the The, uh Uh, Building or the development of misty waters, but Uh, Some of these are overlapping because of that.

03:16:58,630	I didn’t know what everybody else was, you know, going to be talking about, but The Misty Waters Homeowner Association covenants. Um To not have those in line with what the city is dealing with. What everything else as far as the setbacks. Uh, people are people are kind of afraid of that.

03:17:25,200	And I’ve had numbers of conversations with both stating that they, uh Between the builders and perspective. Uh, homeowners out there or people building homes is that They. They need to have a wait and see, type of type of, uh, Uh, stance on this or in some cases, is that you know what is it really worth it? I might just start looking for other properties build on and

03:17:49,300	that’s up to them, But. It shouldn’t be a reason because we have not come to an agreement as to what rules the the builders and everybody else, and homeowners are going to be following Um I am also concerned. Ah! That if the applicant PD is not granted today.

03:18:16,970	The current property values could possibly go down, Uh, in a development that it should be increasing at whatever rate but Um people are still they’re very leery about that. And without uncertainty about the setback. Oh, There’s a definite cloud over the many existing homes.

03:18:42,070	So who would want to buy or market or insure or lend money to a project that has many homes now out of compliance with the rear setbacks and uncertainty where someone can or cannot build on their lot? By following through with a positive vote today that clock can certainly be lifted. With 15 Bay size lots You have to be developed.

03:19:05,530	You know the county or missing out on a great deal of property tax revenue as well and not to mention, uh, the the riverside lots. But I’ve got a I. I have a lot of pages here, but they’re all in big letters so I can read them.

03:19:27,500	OK another concern I have related to the fact that the HO A, uh, only has insurance for what I feel is a very incon consequential amount with 17 or 18 homes, potentially being out of regulations. Uh, depending upon when you built your home and who approved the bill, of all of which were approved by the city and nature way. The liability to nature A could be substantial. Um, but like any other Insurance situation.

03:19:54,670	Um What’s your You know if you’re bound to pay for one or two major claims. There’s a very high probability that we could Be dropped by our current insurer. And as far as replacing them. Um Any any insurance company that’s done their due diligence. Um To ensure each way. Why would they want to ensure the nature O a.

03:20:19,770	That is clearly in turmoil and quite likely to see subsequent lawsuits due to that setback. Uncertainty with the misty waters. H a could very well be Uninsurable. If. This commission does not approve this. Amendment to the POD request.

03:20:43,270	Uh, as a homeowner on the riverside originally, I didn’t think I really did have a a dog in this fight, but By that setback ruling and the more I thought about it, the more I really do the the I want to see as A, member of the H, a member of Misty Waters it, it’s my home.

03:21:04,070	I want to see it Prosper? I want these different? Uh, entities that the different people to move in and be comfortable about it and Uh, we’re seeing that dry up a little bit right now. Hopefully. It’s gonna get better, but Um But one thing that even though I don’t have a base size lot that disturbs me as if we If.

03:21:29,700	There’s lawsuit after lawsuit due to this that All of a sudden my property. On the riverside be assessed for damages. To the misty water or through the HO A for something that That, uh, is not a problem to me personally. No, but we all on the on the riverside could could, uh, be seeing that in the future.

03:21:56,630	And I know about Heard enough, but really close, um It had been ruled that city and the nature of a may have miss interpreted the rules regarding the setbacks. Well. How could they not? It’s great I feel we need to use the drainage out? He meant because of its easy discernible Is it to enforce and a way to put all the orders back on an even

03:22:17,270	playing field. Um It’s like view of taking the gray area to the point of asking neighbors, you your own neighbors it to tear down all our portion of their homes. Remember each and every one of these homes was approved by the HO in the city.

03:22:38,470	Uh, we’re supposed to be a community and we want prosperity for us. We want prosperity for the city and the county. Um And This. Vote. Yes, but definitely help out in that the cohesiveness the being able to laser in on on this requirement, Misty waters recently overwhelmingly adopted a petition to change the covenants to the inner edge of the drainage. But per the covenants.

03:23:09,500	This required 67% which went through, uh, we collected well over that. Um And. A lot of those Um, a lot of those people. We don’t have a dog in in in the initial one here, you know, but they realized that a couple of things had happened. It would it would give it unity.

03:23:31,200	It would give it, uh, Everybody’s playing by the same rules, and they just they want this to end. They want to be able to put this behind them and just be able to build up that community again.

03:23:50,430	And this is one of those things that that, uh, kind of tears away at that, Um The, same people that we’re talking about. The same people that Said Yes on that and wanted to change and we we got to change the way it was supposed to be done in the covenants. These same people would like to see positive vote regarding the setbacks.

03:24:12,530	Uh, it’s just time to move forward and continue to build misty waters and Instead of turning it down. Uh, we can do this with your decision today. I certainly appreciate you letting me say a couple words. Commissioner’s questions for death. Not saying any Thank you, Jeff. Right? My name is Doug Schmidt. I live out at misty waters. And, uh, Previously.

03:24:45,730	I was on the board for three years, and that was three years director for the Architectural Review Committee. So, um There some issues. With this Um Uh, Well. I got one question. Ken. The individual homeowners that are in question that may be over the line. Can they apply to the zoning board individually for an exemption.

03:25:18,730	Maybe due to the fact that, uh The Lamar Line, or do you have to change the whole PUD? Dog. I appreciate the question. Uh, ben, can you answer that? Sure Mr chair If. I understand the question so to in order to There’s not necessarily an exemption. Uh, that would be allowed the the action that I think is being taken.

03:25:40,070	Would be the appropriate would be allowed by, at least by the our title 14 Zoning ordinance and that is to amend that, uh, piece of the the setback so what the applicants are proposing, at least for my perspective.

03:26:04,830	And I think from our city attorney’s perspective is appropriately in line with with, uh what would be allowed in title 14 to do Well? What I’m getting at is individual home. There’s like, uh, talking about the individual res. Could. They come to the bar and say when we built we didn’t realize it was over. And. Now. We, Come back! Find out! This Lomar line is established. Could They get an exemption at that time.

03:26:24,970	For, an error that was done. So, Mr Chair. My answer would be the same for whether it’s eight homeowners or an individual homeowner. There’s not necessarily an exemption process. We, we would have the opportunity for what’s called a variance, and that’s a That’s a board of adjustment.

03:26:45,800	It’s a different board, but that’s essentially a deviation from the zoning ordinance it it there would have to be a hardship that would be identified. Um, but that would be, uh, A different a different process or or a different option.

03:27:06,700	So so it’s a possibility they could come in and get a variance for say, I’m 10 FT over or, you know, 100 and 50 Square feet of my house, and it was an air due to the fact that the Lomar line was misconstrued and all this these many years That would be an easy option for people worrying about getting Having to tear their Snow.

03:27:29,630	Could that be a, uh you understand what I’m getting at there, Doug? It sounds like it’s a possibility. That might be the easiest. Route to go for a lot of these people that are worried about lawsuits, because, uh, at this point The only lawsuit going on in Zellers. So. Maybe give them hope that way In case things don’t work out, but I do have a question.

03:27:56,270	Um This proposal that you’re dealing with right now. These lots does it only pertain to these lots, Or. Is it gonna pertain to Um The Misty Waters HO a changing The Lomar line and and moving it to the, uh, drainage easement for setback Is that all in complete package or is that a separate? Just a moment? Uh, Comm. Bittner.

03:28:21,300	Thank you Mr Chair. That’s one of the questions I was asking the staff were we’re gonna look into that question yet? We, don’t we don’t have that answer yet. Because I have a question.

03:28:42,200	I’ve got a roughly 5800 square foot house and And I thought on the backside of the letter we got you guys have a map on it. And. If you notice there’s a number of straight line lots. The drainage easement on them lots. Is probably 30 ft from the bay. I am now about 30 ft. My back of my house from the Lamar line. If. I use the drainage easement.

03:29:08,370	I can be allowed another 30 ft. So effectively. There’s a couple of vacant lots there If. I bought one of them baked lots. I could build a house all the way out that drainage ditch. That could probably be 100 some feet. Uh, long and it would cut everybody’s view out. From both sides of my neighbors.

03:29:33,330	So when you’re considering the drainage line, it After being an art committee and everything else you get kind of understanding. These cul de sacs. Or a mouse that way with the Lamar line and the drainage ditch but in the straight lines and the curve on the north side, it’s a whole different story with that.

03:29:57,900	Green ditch Now, You’re opening it up. A yard up to See what is mine. 200 some feet long. I could build a house. That’s 170 FT Long So there there’s, uh There are some issues to be worked out. And. I can’t. Uh, really. Understand how Misty waters. Got this petition signed by so many homeowners. I wasn’t aware of it.

03:30:32,830	My neighbor wasn’t aware of it. And. I know three other people that weren’t aware of it. And they claim they have the signatures to do it. We were never contacted. We never had an annual meeting on it. It was a petition. So the hand picked the people. That’s a little unfair. So there. There’s some issues out there.

03:30:57,200	You know, and I can understand the people that are built over the lawnmower line or there’s a problem. But, uh, there’s There’s some pretty good issues out there, especially if you adapt. That drainage line. As the rear setback.

03:31:21,000	You could really open up a can of worms for these vacant lots that are built now. They could be. You know? Like. I say you can build a house 150 ft. Long in there. You’ve got your neighbor’s view right out of the bay. And. There’s nothing you can do about it. And. There was a question earlier on the Lundstrom.

03:31:44,900	Hows? Uh, Got stopped, Um, building and they had to do some changing. I was on the art committee when we proved that house What happened was the surveyor. When he had drawn the map. Of it should have been a curve like this on the back lot. One. Half of it went out instead of in So when we proved it.

03:32:07,670	We looked at Lamar line. The house was not Crossing the WMAR line when the builder Resurveyed it? He found out it was The curvature was wrong from the surveyor. And. Part of the house was in, uh, they went to the meeting. And. Uh, they ended up It was a smaller portion.

03:32:31,100	It was probably 20 ft long but under the wide end, it was only about 5 FT. Down it up on that and re redoing the house and that but the only thing done at that point was it was poor. So. It wasn’t a It was a big issue, but not it could have been worse. But.

03:32:48,770	That’s really what I was trying to get out of this. You know there’s possibility for the other people to come in and get a variance. Get. That thing straddled out without changing this whole. Um Blood. Because. Uh, I. Don’t.

03:33:12,900	I don’t think anybody really thought about that issue and The setback with a drainage on the straight lines and there are a lot of straight line home lots left on the West side. And a few on the north and just one out of or two of them were of our these site, so Any questions? Mr questions for Doug. Mister Michelle. Maybe.

03:33:37,270	I just want to clarify that just to confirm that all at the table at this point is those lots within dream circle that are part of the application. So the straight line ones that that’d be the Uh, The the the changes between what the the the ordinance would say is the setback.

03:33:54,470	And What now the the respective covenant that’d still be outstanding, but all that we’re considering right now is just the dream circle lots just to confirm that, you know that’s what I wanted to make. Sure was, Uh, when you prove this that change, I guess it would be in our pod to use the drainage easement as a setback. That wouldn’t Even though the misty waters supposedly approved it.

03:34:14,830	That wouldn’t be passed. I mean the law? Yeah. That would be a separate action if that action occurred in the future. OK, Mr Chair. Yes Commission be I just I just wanted to confirm, though, that the variance request like you were talking about wouldn’t happen here.

03:34:34,470	I appreciate your information because I was kind of leaning towards trying to help. Everybody by broadening the application, But maybe that’s not a good idea. Um, I’d be very much against broadening that thing out because It it If you get really it can create some problems later date. Interesting on the rest of it. See Doug before you step away, Quick question for you. When.

03:35:01,470	Did you sit on the HO a board. I just got off in January. So I was on from 2122 and 23. OK So I always say head of the art committee for three years. And we did use the Lamar line. In fact. Uh, the neighbor to Zellers. Same paper light.

03:35:30,470	Um, we enforce the Lomar line on them made the, uh we made all the surveyors. When they, uh, put in the House plan. To show the low line on their drawing with a house. So. It was there in black and white. So. We knew where it was. So. The board was aware OK, thank you. If. I May, Mr Chair. Yes Michael.

03:35:55,130	I think it’s important to understand. You know Doug brought up an interesting point about a waiver request. Unfortunately with the waiver request. We did consider that for the applicants because it’s economic hardship is not a consideration in a waiver request. It would not be approved.

03:36:13,900	You go to a different entity, but you’d come in with a waiver request and say, Hey the reason we’re doing this is because we don’t want to tear down our home they be be denied. Because it cannot be Based on economics, So.

03:36:29,870	I think everybody needs to understand That process is out there if it’s not economic based, you know, maybe there’s an opportunity, but I just don’t see it. It wasn’t for the applicants in this case, so thank you. Thank you. All right. The podium is open. Business. Oh, Excuse me. Um, my name’s Nicole de Grey. Almost eat some water, um, previously known as Nicole, Pert three have a cold going on.

03:37:12,500	Um I’m, one of the applicants for the PU, Uh, request I currently own a vacant lot located at 6343 Dream Circle in misty waters. I’m asking you to vote yes today to change the pot amendment to the rear setback line. It’s not just the sellers or the Reeses who are impacted by this court decision I bought this lot years ago.

03:37:36,000	With the intention to build my dream House. I reviewed covenant and had the had expectations to build based off of other existing homes in the area. And their location to the water. Since then I’ve had some life changes, and I decided to sell the lot. I am an experienced realtor in town and know the value of waterfront lots.

03:37:53,670	I listed the lot in October of 2022, and frankly, I’m shocked it hasn’t sold yet even after several price reductions. I believe it’s listed below market value. Um by 80 to 100,000 compared to other waterfront lots in the area and other areas of Bismarck, Mandan.

03:38:15,670	Um, there’s several reasons I believe it hasn’t sold yet, and some concerns have been confirmed to me by initially, um, interested buyers. Under, the cur current, uh, decision by the court for my lot only has, um Only a smaller home could be built.

03:38:36,400	Which would be much, much less square feet and oddly configured with a pie shaped lot like mine on a cul de sac. You were forced to build closer to the water to comply with these setbacks. People who buy higher priced lots on the water, Want to build a a bigger home, not a smaller one. There’s, uh, currently too much uncertainty after After. Um an owner gets all the approval to build. How.

03:38:59,270	Do they know they’re not at risk for being sued. Nobody wants to live in a neighborhood where there’s active lawsuits going on in the development between both neighbors and the HO, a Uh, the current, uh, Lomar line limits the size of a house that can be built.

03:39:18,230	It’s a setback line is approved to the drain, Um, drainage easement line that would allow an owner to build a larger home in return higher property value for misty waters, development and more tax revenue for the city and county who wouldn’t want the ability to build a larger home on the river. I need my lot to be allowed to use the drainage easement as the rear setback. Otherwise.

03:39:38,400	I fear I won’t be able to sell it. Um, there is a cloud of title for misty waters, lots and homes, including my lot because no one wants a home that is out of compliance. And, um, where you can or cannot build.

03:39:56,470	They had one buyer reach out to me and had specific questions on the setback line, which I provided. Um they never move forward after receiving that information. Um, over the last, uh, year roughly 13 waterfront. Lots have sold or gone under contract yet my lot sits vacant.

03:40:17,900	The very set back line was consistently used for other homes that were previously built by built and misty waters, and it continues to needs to be that way. Otherwise the entire uh, misty waters. Development is at risk for financial damages. I ask you vote Yes. To, The P Addend, Um, on Dream circle today. This benefits the entire neighborhood. And sorry for the scratchy voice. Comm. questions for Nicole. I. Don’t see any Nicole? Thank you.

03:41:06,870	Hm? Good evening. My name is Shane Miller and I Am the attorney for Darren and Tammy Berger. Um They’ve been mentioned a few times today, but not nearly enough. I’m happy to stand here on their behalf and, uh, explain to you what this application, uh, would do to them.

03:41:28,230	I know you received a packet of information, so I do want to point out Um O on the maps that the burgers house is the only one that’s carved out. I know that you received a, uh, should have received a letter that I sent on behalf of my clients.

03:41:55,030	I trust that you have received it and reviewed it, Uh, before this meeting, but I do think it’s important for me to come up here and reiterate some points and clarify a lot of incorrect information that has been presented to you today. As. I’m sure. Uh, many are, um, you are now well aware that there is a pending lawsuit regarding, uh The seller’s home.

03:42:20,700	Um, my clients had brought the lawsuit against the sellers and the HO A and the builders. This litigation, uh, initially involved, Um, whether the house what the setback was and whether the house was built over it. This issue of what the applicable set back.

03:42:44,070	Um is and whether the sellers violated the PUD has been decided by the North Dakota Supreme Court. Since, the 2006 Major amendment to the planned unit development for Misty Waters. The setback for the bail lots has been and continues to be the Contour line established by the metes and bounds legal description from the 2005 Lamar Therefore This application is moot.

03:43:10,800	Uh, the application itself for the amendment to this, PUD seeks an amendment to I quote, clarify that the rear yard setback on the subject properties. Um Complies with the de facto setback. There has never been a de facto setback. When. The planned unit development was created. The setback was, uh, the the, uh, 30 ft.

03:43:36,800	They’re close to the drainage is ease bed. In 2005. Uh 2005 Lomar was obtained that 2005 Lom was obtained strictly for, uh, the floodplain regulations. Uh, in 2006, the developer of Misty water, Steve McCormick. Um and his engineer applied for a major PUD amendment. At. That time one of the amendments that was proposed by Mr McCormick. For.

03:44:08,400	Uh P for misty Waters was to establish a fixed setback. Because. It was important that there was uniformity. Um, that setback. Was decided to be the 2005 Lamar line. I think it’s important to know prior to the 2006 Major Amendment. No homes were developed. It was it was all the lots were empty.

03:44:36,770	So From the time that any any homes were built in misty waters, though setback has always been The 2005 lumbar live. The applicants, uh, in the city developments, uh, allegation in the staff report that the North Dakota Supreme court has now created non-compliance issues for lots, 36 and 33 is frankly shocking. The 2005 little line. As I said, um Was the established setback.

03:45:16,670	When both of these homes were built. There is no question about it. The non compliance issues were created by the lot owners. Um By the lot owners themselves, possibly their builders, possibly their engineers.

03:45:41,270	But, not by the North Dakota Supreme Court, the North North Dakota Supreme court did not determine that the 25 2005 Lamar line was to function as a setback going forward. The, North, Dakota Supreme Court decided that it was clear. Based on the plan unit development. And. All of the evidence everything you’ve heard so far today. All of that has been argued and litigated. And decided by the North Dakota Supreme Court.

03:46:03,400	And it was decided that it is unambiguous that the setback For the bay Lots and Misty Waters was this 2005 Lomar. So. Any non-compliance issues is not the fault of the burgers. Not the fault of the North Dakota Supreme Court. It is the fault of the property owners and their agents who worked for them.

03:46:29,970	What these applicants are trying to do Is ask this commission. To amend the planned unit development for the entire misty waters development. To only move their individual lots, the setback for their individual lots. For their individual benefits. This amendment provides absolutely zero benefit to misty waters. Uh other owners. There’s some discussion regarding property values. Well.

03:47:02,400	I would I would point to you that my client’s home Has significantly lost value. Because of the seller’s home being built. 50 almost 50 ft past the step back. Who, do you? Who? Do you think wants to buy My client’s home now. When the house next to them. Is 50 ft, almost 50 ft past the step back. I understand completely.

03:47:30,370	Uh, Mr seller’s emotion appear today. I understand it because for the last four years I’ve seen my clients go through the exact same thing. So When making a decision today. I urge you not to make a decision based on emotion. Based on how you may feel bad for someone. Because all of the same arguments.

03:47:54,430	Could be said from my clients, and they should But. That’s not what you’re here to. You’re not here to make decisions. Based on emotions like that. You should make them on the facts. You should make, um on what you are allowed to do based on your powers and under the law. Allowing this amendment.

03:48:22,030	Is spot zoning at its finest. How do you look? At, the maps. The pictures. And. See that that nylo owners are asking for their setback. The setback that applies to all misty water. Uh, Bay lots. That just theirs gets amended for their benefit. But carve out a house right in the middle of it. What benefit.

03:48:49,670	Does amending their setbacks. Give it to my client. It doesn’t And. It doesn’t provide any benefit to the other lots and the undeveloped lots. That is what spot zoning is, and that is why it’s impermissible. It’s also apparent And. Frankly, it’s been flat out outside. That what the sellers. And and their support team.

03:49:24,400	Is hoping or asking and hoping you do today. Is to step in as judge and jury for their lawsuit. They want you. To make a decision that is set to go to trial in just a couple months. A decision that the North Dakota Supreme court said, is a decision for the District Court judge.

03:49:46,370	The District Court judge has also said it’s her decision. And. The reason, she said she’s not willing to continue. It is not because of Uh, for any other reason. But she said. I cannot. Wait to make a decision. Hoping or giving the sellers more time. To try and persuade This commission. To do something in their favor.

03:50:12,700	That would not be fair. That’s why it’s set to go to trial in September. As I previously stated the North Dakota Supreme court has already determined that the sellers, um have built over the setback in violation of the planned unit development. Um The sellers are now inappropriately trying to amend the planned unit development.

03:50:43,170	Um, so they can argue to the court. That. It would be moot for the court. To determine that the, uh The. Parts of the house are in violation of the PD should be torn down. As I stated. That is a decision for the court. So I. I beg you to ask yourself before you make a decision today.

03:51:05,430	Is that the planning and zoning commissions role. To step in and interfere in lawsuits. Take a decision or the judicial system and make that decision for the court. It’s not I urge this commission to let this lawsuit run its course. If at a later time. When you don’t When you’re not asking to be judge and jury. In. This lawsuit.

03:51:37,970	You want to make a decision regarding The planned unit development as long as it’s um You know, follows the applicable codes and is done correctly. That’s your prerogative. But. What isn’t right is to take that decision away from the court. When. The Burgers had every single right To bring this lawsuit.

03:52:05,470	And that has been confirmed by the North Dakota Supreme Court. They are absolutely every right. To request as a remedy that the House the part of the house that’s not in compliance, be torn down. That’s their right. Don’t take that right out of their hands. It is not proper. For this commission. To make a decision that is going to favor One homeowner over the other.

03:52:32,870	By choosing to deny this, Uh, amendment the planned unit development. You are not Deciding in the Burger’s favor. That decision is still be going to be made by the District court. However If. You do decide to grant this amendment you are Uh, you are ruling in favor of the sellers.

03:52:59,470	And you’re taking that judicial remedy. Away from the burgers. It would certainly That poor precedent. If this commission agrees that a property owner Can violate a city ordinance only to lobby for after the fact permission. I want to briefly talk about the Lindstrom’s property. In 2021. That property was denied a variance request because 6 FT. Of the foundation.

03:53:38,730	Was built over the setback. Part of that finding was that, uh, it was denied because The variance. The request for variance wouldn’t be in harmony with the rest of the planned unit development. I ask you How would allowing amendment to only nine lots in misty waters being in harmony with the rest of the planned unit development.

03:54:06,030	How would allowing a house. To after the fact. Build 50 almost 50 ft over the setback. Be in harmony. With, the planned unit development. It would not. And. It’s important to note. There’s a lot of discussion earlier in the evening. About how the the HO a The, um The AC.

03:54:37,530	The City how they historically, uh, viewed the setback. The truth is Um, let’s talk about the two lots non in compliant. Non compliant. The seller’s lot. The seller’s lot. Was, uh, initially approved by city staff. Um Which has now been admitted in litigation by air. The. Uh, the individual who approved the lot.

03:55:08,500	Was comparing it to an old planned unit development. After it was brought to the city’s attention. The city. For the first time. Decided that their interpretation of the planned unit development Was that The step back was an elevation that could be, uh, changed. By just getting a new Lomar with FEM. That’s the first time That that interpretation Was ever used.

03:55:39,200	Was ever brought up. Was ever relied on by the city. By the HO, a Or any old property owners. That’s not history. That’s an After the fact we gotta do something because there was a A mistake made in an error. Now. The Reese’s lot. That’s the other lot that’s not in compliant.

03:56:02,800	That building permit. Uh, was approved. After receiving a survey done by Houston Engineering. No setback. Even listed on there. No Lomar. Listed on there. So I encourage Miss Reese and her husband to ask Houston Engineering. Why those lines Weren’t on the map. Why was the requirements of the planned unit unit development. Not made it weird to you.

03:56:42,730	When you were going to build this house. The fact is Is. There is no evidence That The drainage easement was the setback. That the, uh Whatever the you could move the set back by moving, uh, by obtaining a new Lomar, no history, historical pre precedent for that. Um Yeah. There’s nothing except there’s one planned unit development.

03:57:17,470	That Was Filed recorded. Every homeowner had a right to see it. Every builder had a right to see it. Every Engineering company had a right to see it. If they chose Not to follow it, that’s on them. That’s a problem between the property owner and their agents that they hired.

03:57:52,130	If, um This the city Has a choice. With every property. Just like it chose not to take any action. When. They were made aware that the Burger’s house Are the seller’s house. Was being built over the setback. And has now been established and confirmed by the North Dakota Supreme Court. Nine months later has still not taken any action.

03:58:21,000	Or given any indication that they are gonna make Uh, the sellers or anyone else not in compliant tear their health down. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I have not made aware of that.

03:58:43,170	There’s also I get the concerns of every all the other owners, property owners that may be non compliant how this may affect them. That’s their That’s an individual issue. It’s not an issue before this commission. They need to figure out what their legal rights are what their legal remedies are. There may be Statue of limitations issues they may never be ordered to tear the house down.

03:59:06,370	They may have great neighbors that say, Hey, we don’t mind that you’re built over the setback. That’s possible. By denying Um What we’re asking for Is that this lawsuit this one lawsuit. Regarding My clients and their neighbor who built over 50 50 ft over the setback. Be allowed to properly litigate it to the end and let the court decide what’s going to happen.

03:59:52,570	Everything else is just what ifs. What if what if. What if Don’t make a decision on what ifs make a decision on the facts before you the facts before you are that they’re Homes that are, uh, the seller’s home is non compliant. And they after the fact want your approval. In order to escape liability. Take.

04:00:15,930	The decision out of the judge’s hands. To benefit them. To severely detriment. My client. Yes. This is a two part trial. My clients have the opportunity to also seek money damages. There is not A dollar amount that you could persuade my clients. That, this would be worth it. This was also their dream House on Dream Circle.

04:00:42,730	They developed their house on this lot. With the expectation That setbacks. We’re gonna be followed because setbacks. Think about it. What are setbacks? In, a planned unit development. They created to provide uniform. Uniformity to correct to, uh, protect the natural spaces, natural scenic spaces. That’s also the purpose of the planned unit development set forth in your guys’ own ordinance.

04:01:10,900	How is allowing individual property owners. To seek Uh, to seek amendments to change their setbacks just for their lot. How. Is that going to provide any uniformity. A new commission comes in a couple of years. They could just decide. Oh you get to do that. You get to do that. You’ve now lost all uniformity.

04:01:31,730	That’s supposed to be protected by having a planned unit development. And by having an established setback. Back to the I. I might jump around, but there was so much information presented to you today and it’s my obligation to make sure that you receive the correct information. Uh, there’s a lot of information from the engineer. Stating that there’s a 20 year history.

04:01:57,670	Other drainage cement being a setback. I ask you where. Is there a document? Like. You can point to me that says that I’ve been involved in this litigation for four years and I haven’t seen it.

04:02:19,070	What I have seen is an established planned unit development with an established setback and the testimony of the developer who is the one that requested the amendment that said what the purpose was. There’s no history. No 20 Year history of anything. Also There’s a lot of A lot of comments about I wasn’t aware of the Lomar. Individual property owners when they buy property. Especially when you’re buying property in, um, a waterfront property. You have a responsibility.

04:03:01,230	You have a responsibility to make sure that you’re aware of the applicable ordinances. The laws. If. There’s any question or any doubt. You aren’t exactly sure what that is. You have a responsibility to check on that. The sellers. They They tell you We got all their approvals. We thought we were fine.

04:03:31,370	Well, the fact is Way prior to two thirds of the house being built, framing was still going up. The burgers. Previous attorney had contacted The sellers and their builder. And brought the issue said Hey. We. Think. You’re being you’re building over the setback. And what was that? I don’t Report to any neighbor. I got my approvals. I don’t answer to any neighbor.

04:04:04,200	Is that a good neighbor. There was an opportunity. There was a question. Way before this house was built way before the $3 million was invested. There was a significant question. About whether this house was built over the setback. And property owners have a duty and an obligation. To make sure that they are confident with that.

04:04:30,330	If. There was any further question. They could have went to the Supreme Court or the District Court said. Hey, I think I’m right. We have the city’s city’s approval. But. We’re still getting comments that were not in compliance.

04:04:51,330	Look at this beauty because I interpret it one way someone interprets the other help us make a decision that could have been done well before $3 million is spent. They chose not to. They said. We. Don’t answer to you. And. They kept on building they kept on building after The Architectural control Committee. Told them halt construction. There’s a question here. The sellers and their builder continued to build. When.

04:05:19,100	You take that risk. You have to live with the consequences. And, the consequences will be decided by the court. Not by this city, not by this Planning and zoning commission. There’s discussions today. About How. There’s uncertainty in misty waters. And By this Um, planning and zoning Commission. Um Granting the amendment, they’ll somehow provide uncertainty. The uncertainty.

04:06:06,500	About. Whether people should follow the the restrictive covenants or the PUD. That uncertainty was created by the HO, a Who Now. The members of the H A, who created this uncertainty are jason Sellers. And Mr Anderson. Jordan Anderson, the builder’s dad. They knew that there’s a North Dakota Supreme Court decision, saying This is the setback.

04:06:35,330	The planned unit development is what establishes the step back. There’s no dispute about that. Yet they decide To amend the restrictive covenants prior to amending the planned unit development to create this conflict and uncertainty. Also. There are issues with the amendment to the restrictive covenants. You’ve heard numerous owners were not even consulted about it.

04:07:04,400	There’s issues that people that have signed it. Did not fully understand what they were signing. And. It’s my understanding that the amend the amended amended restrictive covenants is going to likely be challenged. But at the end of the day, the restrictive covenants that has no bearing on your decision.

04:07:24,970	You Guys don’t control the restrictive covenants. What you guys can amend on a proper application is the planned unit development but you can’t You can’t Grant an amendment to the planned unit development. That would be improper. That would be spot zoning. That could potentially be a taking.

04:07:54,330	That’s even if 73% of property owners want, um the drainage easement to be the setback for their lot. That does not mean that you get to to break the law to do it. As. I stated before the North Dakota Supreme court took all of these arguments that were made today into consideration and rejected them. There is no reason Why.

04:08:26,330	Now, the plan Planning and Zoning Commission should step in And rewrite the four years of this litigation. The, um After 2006 when the major amendment went through, and the setback was established as the 2005 Lomar line. That, as I stated, was recorded public record. Every owner has a right to see it could see it. The restrictive covenants adopted it.

04:09:13,330	Um And as the setback And also approve and sign off of said Plans or house must be built. According to the setbacks set forth in the restrictive covenants. Again. It didn’t say that. How the restrictive covenants. Those forms the planned unit development. Nowhere did any of those documents say the setback is the drain? Homeowners have a duty.

04:09:37,870	They have an obligation to check these O. Check these documents they should not just rely on word of mouth or hey, my neighbor got spilled all the way out there, So I’m gonna assume that I can build all the way up there. I’m sorry.

04:09:54,470	That is not a good enough excuse to now come to the board and say Please help us fix this mistake. There are some comments made by attorneys today. Specifically from The HOAS attorney in this lawsuit. I do not believe he’s been retained as the general counsel for the HO, a About You know, potential liability. That. This could have on the rest of the homeowners. He accused my partner of going silent. Well.

04:10:31,300	He’s also been silent. We asked him show us under North Dakota law show us in a legal document. Where the other homeowners Would be legally liable for any judgment against the HO, a We have not received anything. But here’s the thing. I could sit up here all night.

04:10:54,770	And talk about every single dispute that I have with these gentlemen behind me. I could and I guarantee you that they dispute everything that I’m saying. But guess what? We already did that and we did it before the district court and we did it before the Supreme Court. All of those arguments. All. These disputes has already been litigated.

04:11:14,300	And at the upcoming trial. The sellers. Any other witnesses they want to call. They can make those they can make those statements to the court. They can tell the court Why? Hey. Don’t hear we We shouldn’t have to tear our house down because we think money damages are appropriate.

04:11:35,400	Hey, we don’t think our house should be torn down because we got approval from the city. We got approval from whoever Make those arguments to the court. We’re ready. We’re ready. We’re ready to finish this lawsuit. But by trying to avoid having even have the next trial. That’s what they told you, they said, Hey. Based on your decision we might get out of this. This trial. Really.

04:12:01,470	How is that appropriate? How is that appropriate for you guys? I beg you. Please do not decide that you are judge and jury in a pending lawsuit. Just because it was brought up. I want to just make sure some factual Issues are cleared up. It’s true that, uh, the builders and Jordan Anderson were dismissed.

04:12:31,930	Uh, from the lawsuit from the Supreme Court. The reason being is because the sellers and Jordan Anderson all agreed. That, Jordan Anderson Big River builders was their agent.

04:12:53,570	They were acting at all times on behalf of the sellers, the property owners Our claims are against the property owners because it’s their house that is built over the setback. If the sellers wanted to point a finger at their builder. They could have done that. No. One stopped him from doing that. They chose not to. So any consequence. Of Jordan Anderson, Big River builders, any mistakes? They made anything they should have done that they didn’t do. The sellers said.

04:13:16,300	Hey, that’s on us. He’s our agent. He works for us. All. The Arguments today have been This isn’t fair to us. This is potentially gonna cause more little litigation. We. We bought the property thinking we could do this. We thought we were protected. My clients can make the exact same argument.

04:13:58,000	My clients bought developed this house. Their dream house the house they want to grow old in Based on What they believed were the protections in place. And if Individual lot. Owners can just build. Without any consequences. Well, what about them? A Grant of the amendment tonight is choosing a side. It’s choosing the seller side. It’s choosing the house.

04:14:28,970	That was built 50 ft over the setback. And. You’re telling my clients That, their hardships their damages. Mean nothing. Again, not for this commission to decide it’s for the district court to decide. So I urge you Do not make a decision. That takes my client’s rights out of their hands. Do not make a decision.

04:14:57,730	That is improper under North Dakota law that is spot zoning. For these reasons. We’re asking you To deny this amendment. I also Want to ask a few follow up questions. First The very first slide from the staff report. Showed two maps and it said existing Um Can’t believe, uh, you may have to help me out, um existing zoning.

04:15:26,470	And. Then. The. Next. One was current zoning. Those look like the same exact pictures. In, my in my mistaken Journey. Jenny. Can you answer that? We can have that We can have the overhead please. DM. Could we Please have the, um overhead. Oh, sorry. I’m so sorry, but Mm. Can.

04:16:38,530	I, uh be provided some clarification on And it may be a long night and I’m missing something super obvious. But. What’s the difference between existing zoning and proposed zoning. Sure I’ll. I’ll take a response to that. So. Thank you, daniel. So our zoning map simply uses the coloring that you see there for all planned unit development.

04:17:01,600	So from um A map perspective, There’s nothing changing about the zoning map. It’s the text that would be changing so I It is a little bit of an odd way to show it in the map, but that’s just our standard process for showing the changes, And the reason I ask is, I thought it would be more fair and a better,

04:17:17,600	um, maybe reflection of this. The circumstances of the the existing zoning. Did it have a carved out, uh, area for my client because existing zoning right now has the same setbacks the same restrictions. Throughout the entire entire, uh cul de sac, so I didn’t know what was trying to be depicted in this. But.

04:17:40,100	I wanted to make it clear that the existing zoning does not differentiate. Between those nine lots and my clients right now it’s fair. It applies to everyone. So. I. Just I wanted clarification. I wanted to point out that concern. Uh, the other question.

04:18:01,570	I do have, uh, there were, uh, I think three or a couple documents that were provided to you. Um, by the applicants, attorneys This afternoon. For. Those documents also provided This morning before the 8 a.m. cut off. And. Can. You answer that. I can answer that, Uh, chair. They were not, uh, provided by 8 a.m. the purpose of providing them at AD M is to give the commissioners time to review the documents in advance.

04:18:29,070	Um, we have always allowed the option to, uh, provide documentation at the meetings as well. OK and I’m reading a A June 14th 2024 letter that was sent to the adjacent property owners that may be affected. And in that letter from The Bismarck Community Development Department, it says. Uh, written comments.

04:18:52,830	Um, received after 8 A.m.. Well, and those submitted and honestly will not be forward to planning and zoning commissions. So I would ask that any documents provided to the board. Um, during the actual meeting not be considered by this commission. Chair. I think we should ask for clarification from our attorney, if that’s if that’s allowable, but it sounds fair.

04:19:17,700	Who sent that letter. JW from Bismarck Community Development Department. So. That’s our staff is JJ. So I. I Think. What That is saying is that you’re not going to get these in advance, but I’ll let our attorney clarify whether these can be Considered or not, if they’re handed out at the meeting.

04:19:41,830	It says or included in the meeting. In the minutes of the meeting. Thank you, um, chair commissioners. So. Um, we’ve always allowed for oral testimony to happen in any, um, exhibits that they provide can be on the Elmo or otherwise. That’s not written comments. That’s oral comments, so that’s how that’s always happened.

04:20:10,000	I would respectfully recommend that language may be changed to make that more clear. And I still stay out of my request that any documentation provided after the fact should not be considered. Um, Finally one last question. Uh, Mr Bittner. I know that you previously said, uh, today that Jordan sellers spoke to you prior to this meeting.

04:20:34,530	Is that correct? Yes by show of hands, Um Did any other Comm. speak to Jordan sellers prior to this, uh, meeting regarding the application. OK? Right. Any questions for me? Commissioners quick one so They would really consider what we do today to impact a lawsuit that’s already in process. Yes what the judges act that the attorneys for the sellers actually brought this up at a recent hearing.

04:21:06,170	They said. We’re trying to do this. And In, the court’s decision, judge said. This trial may become moot. Because If They do amend the PD. It’s possible that It would be more to order that, um, portions of the house.

04:21:31,200	Um, that are over the setback to be torn down when The sellers or another property owner could come and build the same exact house. Um, over the set the current setbacks but now being compliance because they amended The setback through, uh, this process. So Yeah, it’s it’s possible. Are. We going to object to it, of course, but the fact is right now. We’re on a a level playing field. We have our arguments.

04:21:58,970	The facts are the facts that were established during four years of litigation. If. This Court grants this amendment Now we are completely different footing. That’s not proper. Any other questions. Commissioners. Any other questions? Hm? Shane. I only have one question for you. The. Uh, when was the Burger House built? So.

04:22:32,530	It was I believe 2006. You. 2008 2008. I think they had the, um the the site plans to maybe in 2006 or shortly after Very good. Thank you I had one question Comm. Bitner on those lines. Um When. The Burger House was built. If you know you might not. But were they aware of that? No more line. Yes.

04:22:59,370	That’s a great question. They. Were They, uh, map that was provided in support of their building permit not only labeled the 2005 Lomar but labeled it as the setback. Thank you. Thank you for your time tonight. Thank you, Shane? Um Oh Sorry. Can. I make one other request. We’re here tonight, a public public hearing.

04:23:27,530	My concern is that every time someone comes up here and says something that someone may disagree with that they’re now given another opportunity to talk. So I respectfully request that this commission Stop that from happening. Everyone has been sitting here very long, very patiently waiting their turn to talk.

04:23:51,130	And if we keep allowing The same person had come up here multiple times to get their two cents. It’ll never end so respectfully for this process. I. Ask that you limit the speakers to one time speaking I. Appreciate your request usually Shane the way we handle things is if somebody has a new piece of information.

04:24:15,070	We don’t want to reiterate, but, uh we will allow it and we have in the past and I respect that. Thank you. Right. Thank you? Ah, Commissioners, Uh, quick question. Uh, how are we doing? Would you be, um do we need a recess at all for a few minutes? I’ve only been in this room for about 13.5 hours today.

04:24:36,070	I don’t know. Is that a yes or no or I know I could use a quick break. All right, let’s uh let’s take a recess for 10 minutes here if I could go next, then because I’m signed in already and then you can step up. Thank you. And front doors open. Wow! All

00:00:00,000	you can step up. Thank you. And front doors open. Wow! All front doors open. Wow! All right? My name is, uh, Tammy right? My name is, uh, Tammy Berger. Tamara Burger is my is Berger. Tamara Burger is my is my given name.

00:00:10,660	Um, I live at, my given name. Um, I live at, uh, 6328 dream circle. Um, we uh, 6328 dream circle. Um, we are the, uh, My husband and I are the, uh, My husband and I are the, um only lot that is are the, um only lot that is being left left out of this, Um,

00:00:21,940	being left left out of this, Um, current proposed amendment. Um, current proposed amendment. Um, so as you can imagine, I'm in so as you can imagine, I'm in in, uh, not in favor of of this in, uh, not in favor of of this being approved.

00:00:32,080	Um, I listened being approved. Um, I listened to a couple individuals get up to a couple individuals get up to this evening and speak, um, to this evening and speak, um, with regard to the setbacks and with regard to the setbacks and what historically Been you know what historically Been you know what they think The setback was,

00:00:43,130	what they think The setback was, um, my husband and I purchased um, my husband and I purchased our lot. Probably one of the our lot. Probably one of the first lot owners in 2000. first lot owners in 2000. Fiveish. I believe it was, uh, Fiveish.

00:00:51,000	I believe it was, uh, we didn't build and finish our we didn't build and finish our home until 2008 and I think home until 2008 and I think there was a question. Um, from, there was a question. Um, from, um Comm. Schwartz on whether or um Comm.

00:01:03,250	Schwartz on whether or not you know we had our site not you know we had our site plan done that showed the Lomar plan done that showed the Lomar Um, there was testimony this Um, there was testimony this evening. I believe it was from evening. I believe it was from Teresa Reese that it's never Teresa Reese that it's never been shown on a site plan.

00:01:13,060	Um, been shown on a site plan. Um, my house was built before her my house was built before her home, and, uh, it was shown on home, and, uh, it was shown on my house plan. Um, we had a my house plan. Um, we had a house plan.

00:01:21,260	That was that was house plan. That was that was done. The Lamar line is done. The Lamar line is depicted on the House site plan, depicted on the House site plan, and it is labeled as the rear and it is labeled as the rear yard setback so prior to these yard setback so prior to these other homeowners having built,

00:01:33,610	other homeowners having built, um my home was did show a Lamar um my home was did show a Lamar line. A depiction of it being line.

00:01:42,920	A depiction of it being the rear yard setback, so as to the rear yard setback, so as to say historically, that it's not say historically, that it's not been the Lamar line is false. been the Lamar line is false. Um I. Also, I want to Bring up Um I. Also, I want to Bring up a couple of other things. I a couple of other things.

00:01:55,900	I believe, um, that were believe, um, that were submitted to the commissioners submitted to the commissioners by my attorney, Um, that, um by my attorney, Um, that, um Teresa. Rees also had indicated Teresa. Rees also had indicated that she developed the, uh form. that she developed the, uh form. For misty waters to for For misty waters to for approvals.

00:02:10,180	Um when the approvals. Um when the architecture review or the the architecture review or the the board reviewed homes prior to board reviewed homes prior to them being approved to be built. them being approved to be built. Um And let me get into that Um And let me get into that here. If.

00:02:22,130	You can give me a here. If. You can give me a second. So I have a couple of second. So I have a couple of those forms that Teresa Reese those forms that Teresa Reese has signed her name to, um one has signed her name to, um one of them is for Eric and Sarah

00:02:41,480	of them is for Eric and Sarah Volks Lot. Um Sarah Volk was Volks Lot. Um Sarah Volk was the HO, a president at the time the HO, a president at the time that the sellers uh lot was that the sellers uh lot was approved.

00:02:50,820	Um, who admitted that approved. Um, who admitted that she never reviewed the pod. Um, she never reviewed the pod. Um, never even looked at it as the never even looked at it as the HO, a president. Um, but the HO, a president.

00:03:00,700	Um, but the specifications for architecture specifications for architecture review form that Teresa Reese review form that Teresa Reese said that she That she said that she That she developed under the pot plot developed under the pot plot plan approval. Um it says front plan approval. Um it says front sides and rear yard setback. sides and rear yard setback.

00:03:14,910	Requirements must be met per Requirements must be met per covenants, Paragraph three. OK covenants, Paragraph three. OK that is for the volks. I also that is for the volks.

00:03:27,590	I also have one for Josh Coons, who have one for Josh Coons, who was the vice president and has was the vice president and has built Probably 20 some homes built Probably 20 some homes out there at Misty waters. Um, out there at Misty waters. Um, and he also indicated that he and he also indicated that he didn't know that there was a a didn't know that there was a a setback line. Um, there's also setback line.

00:03:39,500	Um, there's also that same form that Miss Reese, that same form that Miss Reese, uh, developed that says. Front uh, developed that says. Front sides and rear yard setback. sides and rear yard setback. Requirements must be met per Requirements must be met per covenant paragraph three. Um, covenant paragraph three.

00:03:50,410	Um, for Ms Reese to stand up here for Ms Reese to stand up here and tell you that it's always and tell you that it's always been the easement. I would like been the easement.

00:04:01,090	I would like anyone in this room to please anyone in this room to please read Paragraph three under the read Paragraph three under the current PUD and tell me where current PUD and tell me where drainage Or easement. Words are drainage Or easement. Words are under that paragraph. Those two under that paragraph. Those two words are not mentioned in that words are not mentioned in that paragraph. The drainage paragraph. The drainage easement is not even mentioned easement is not even mentioned in that paragraph.

00:04:13,770	And so for in that paragraph. And so for her to develop this form and her to develop this form and say you have to refer to say you have to refer to paragraph three, which outlines paragraph three, which outlines what the Lomar is what the what the Lomar is what the setback is in paragraph three.

00:04:22,950	setback is in paragraph three. Which is delineated by the Which is delineated by the contour line, and they approved contour line, and they approved 2005. WalMart. That's what it 2005. WalMart. That's what it says under paragraph three. OK, says under paragraph three.

00:04:32,920	OK, so I don't know where the so I don't know where the drainage easement Thing ever drainage easement Thing ever came up. Um, it's never been came up. Um, it's never been the dream achievement. Uh, in the dream achievement. Uh, in the 18 years since this PUD was the 18 years since this PUD was amended in 2006.

00:04:44,670	I have never amended in 2006. I have never seen the words drainage seen the words drainage easement. It's also been stated easement. It's also been stated that, um That people believe that, um That people believe that this was an elevation. that this was an elevation.

00:04:55,740	It's a movable line If You read It's a movable line If You read the Lomar. Description of the the Lomar. Description of the 2005 law law mower. 2005 2005 law law mower. 2005 WalMart refers to the 16 40.3 WalMart refers to the 16 40.3 elevation. And. It also elevation. And.

00:05:10,430	It also indicates that it's a meats and indicates that it's a meats and bounds line. To stand up here bounds line. To stand up here and dispute any more. What. and dispute any more. What.

00:05:20,770	People think the setback is People think the setback is that's already been that's that's already been that's already been done by the already been done by the Supreme Court. We don't need to Supreme Court. We don't need to be disputing that anymore. be disputing that anymore.

00:05:29,240	There's no other dispute to be There's no other dispute to be had The Supreme Court has ruled had The Supreme Court has ruled that the setback is a stat is a that the setback is a stat is a static line. Based on the 2005 static line. Based on the 2005 Lamar. OK, well, it's always Lamar. OK, well, it's always been since 2006. It's never been since 2006. It's never changed that language has never changed that language has never changed.

00:05:41,990	What did change was changed. What did change was the McCormick's applying the McCormick's applying initially before any homes were initially before any homes were built. To have the the The. Um built. To have the the The. Um I believe they had a 30 ft I believe they had a 30 ft setback.

00:05:51,530	And, then also they setback. And, then also they had AAA building corridor. OK had AAA building corridor. OK the building quarter language the building quarter language was taken out. Because. It was was taken out. Because. It was too difficult for them to too difficult for them to determine. I.

00:06:00,940	Guess you know determine. I. Guess you know where a house was gonna sit? where a house was gonna sit? And, so that's when they And, so that's when they applied. Mr McCormick and his applied.

00:06:12,560	Mr McCormick and his engineer Harvey Schneider engineer Harvey Schneider applied to have the 2005 Lamar applied to have the 2005 Lamar become the setback, which is a become the setback, which is a static line now other people static line now other people have set up here. All. This have set up here. All. This line is some people's is way line is some people's is way down by the easement.

00:06:19,300	Some down by the easement. Some peoples is way up in their yard. peoples is way up in their yard. You're right. That's true You're right. That's true because every lot is different. because every lot is different.

00:06:28,040	You can't tell me that every You can't tell me that every lot out at misty waters is the lot out at misty waters is the same pot shape. It's the same same pot shape. It's the same size depth. I mean you that size depth. I mean you that that line is gonna vary. OK, that line is gonna vary.

00:06:37,310	OK, because no one is the same as because no one is the same as far as size. And these are far as size. And these are facts. I'm not, you know, I facts. I'm not, you know, I mean, This is exactly fact. mean, This is exactly fact. Information that I'm giving you Information that I'm giving you this evening.

00:06:45,350	OK, um The other this evening. OK, um The other thing that I want you to be thing that I want you to be aware of is, uh, I did bring aware of is, uh, I did bring concern with Mr sellers the day concern with Mr sellers the day that that house was even staked.

00:06:53,500	that that house was even staked. There was no framing No. Two There was no framing No. Two thirds done. None of that. All, thirds done. None of that. All, right? I brought issue with Mr right? I brought issue with Mr sellers. When.

00:07:01,070	I came home that sellers. When. I came home that day from work. I went on to my day from work. I went on to my back deck and I looked down way back deck and I looked down way down by the drainage easement. down by the drainage easement. And.

00:07:06,210	There's a stake way down And. There's a stake way down there. And I said. To. Him, I there. And I said. To. Him, I said, Is your house gonna go said, Is your house gonna go back that far. And. He didn't back that far. And.

00:07:15,150	He didn't say he did not deny this In his say he did not deny this In his deposition, he said, no, that's deposition, he said, no, that's an outdoor kitchen. There is no an outdoor kitchen. There is no outdoor kitchen on this home. outdoor kitchen on this home.

00:07:24,760	Nowhere to be had all right, Nowhere to be had all right, just because you can open a just because you can open a door to the outside which I door to the outside which I have a door off my kitchen. So have a door off my kitchen. So is my house and outdoor kitchen is my house and outdoor kitchen If, I, open my back door.

00:07:31,100	That If, I, open my back door. That was a deceitful Representation was a deceitful Representation of what that house was. That is of what that house was. That is a home that has an an indoor a home that has an an indoor enclosed structure with heated enclosed structure with heated floors, air conditioning heat.

00:07:41,580	floors, air conditioning heat. Um, that is not an outdoor Um, that is not an outdoor kitchen, an outdoor kitchen to kitchen, an outdoor kitchen to me would be a patio with an me would be a patio with an outdoor grill. OK to me that outdoor grill.

00:07:50,620	OK to me that was a deceitful statement, so I was a deceitful statement, so I didn't further question didn't further question anything. Because as most of anything.

00:07:58,930	Because as most of you may not know the sellers you may not know the sellers also tried to build another also tried to build another house on a different lot prior house on a different lot prior to this house. And when that to this house. And when that house was staked, which it was house was staked, which it was a longer lot, a deeper lot. a longer lot, a deeper lot.

00:08:09,470	Even Um, when that house was Even Um, when that house was staked, Mr Rudnick and furs who staked, Mr Rudnick and furs who were neighbors of that property, were neighbors of that property, contacted the board and had contacted the board and had concerns. So. The architectural concerns. So.

00:08:17,550	The architectural Review, Gal went down to the Review, Gal went down to the home and met with some home and met with some homeowners that day. And. It homeowners that day. And. It was just decided that they was just decided that they couldn't build that house there couldn't build that house there because their house went too because their house went too far back.

00:08:27,160	I provided you guys a far back. I provided you guys a couple copies of those two site couple copies of those two site plans. And you will see on plans. And you will see on there that those site plans there that those site plans have a distinguished area that have a distinguished area that somebody I believe was the

00:08:35,560	somebody I believe was the builder. But I. I'm not gonna builder. But I. I'm not gonna say that For a fact somebody say that For a fact somebody put on that site plan in red put on that site plan in red that there was roughly so many that there was roughly so many feet from the street that

00:08:44,240	feet from the street that pointed directly to the Lomar pointed directly to the Lomar line. So many feet if they line. So many feet if they thought that the Lomar line was thought that the Lomar line was the easement or an elevation, the easement or an elevation, why would there be? Why? Is

00:08:54,320	why would there be? Why? Is there any distinguished area there any distinguished area that shows from the street to that shows from the street to the Lomar line as far as how the Lomar line as far as how much rough area there is to much rough area there is to build? One of them.

00:09:01,060	The, the build? One of them. The, the first house the house that they first house the house that they tried to build, so there was tried to build, so there was 100 and 25 ft. The second, only 100 and 25 ft. The second, only 95. Ft. You.

00:09:07,800	Tell me why that's 95. Ft. You. Tell me why that's on there. If. They didn't on there. If. They didn't believe that that was the believe that that was the WalMart line was a setback. Why WalMart line was a setback. Why is that even distinguished on is that even distinguished on those plants? Why.

00:09:16,010	Didn't it go those plants? Why. Didn't it go from the street to the easement from the street to the easement if they believed it was the if they believed it was the easement. Or on the first site easement.

00:09:24,480	Or on the first site plan as I mentioned, if you plan as I mentioned, if you look also what IC it was look also what IC it was circled in red. It says that circled in red. It says that the home that first home was the home that first home was 24.4 ft. Over or past. I'm 24.4 ft. Over or past. I'm Sorry past Lomar Lomar line. Sorry past Lomar Lomar line. That was written on there.

00:09:34,420	I That was written on there. I believe by the surveyor. So why believe by the surveyor. So why is that indicated on there if is that indicated on there if it was an elevation Why, would it was an elevation Why, would it? Why? Would anybody care if it? Why? Would anybody care if it's 24.4 ft past the Lomar.

00:09:44,470	it's 24.4 ft past the Lomar. Why is that indicated on there. Why is that indicated on there. Don't tell me that nobody knew Don't tell me that nobody knew what the setback was, what the setback was, especially as a builder. If. especially as a builder. If.

00:09:52,370	You're gonna build a lot You're You're gonna build a lot You're gonna try to say where the gonna try to say where the setbacks are before you even setbacks are before you even before you even build the just before you even build the just before you even stake it. before you even stake it.

00:09:59,010	You're gonna have to know where You're gonna have to know where the setbacks are to see if it's the setbacks are to see if it's gonna comply. So for those gonna comply. So for those things to be indicated on those things to be indicated on those two plans. That's why I two plans.

00:10:08,060	That's why I submitted those I find very submitted those I find very difficult to believe that difficult to believe that nobody knew what the setbacks nobody knew what the setbacks were. Having those things were. Having those things distinguished on those plants. distinguished on those plants. If you if you've had a chance If you if you've had a chance to look at those Um So, I.

00:10:19,800	to look at those Um So, I. Guess this evening. Um you know Guess this evening. Um you know I It's It's You know I've heard I It's It's You know I've heard a lot of emotions and this and a lot of emotions and this and that well, as my attorney said,

00:10:25,880	that well, as my attorney said, we we had a lot of stress, too. we we had a lot of stress, too. I'm not gonna stand up here and I'm not gonna stand up here and cry to OK. Um There's been a cry to OK.

00:10:32,280	Um There's been a lot of there's been a lot of lot of there's been a lot of stress in my family as well for stress in my family as well for the last four years. Um, I have the last four years.

00:10:39,350	Um, I have a house that extends The full a house that extends The full length of my back yard on one length of my back yard on one side down my whole side of my side down my whole side of my yard, the whole the whole side. yard, the whole the whole side.

00:10:46,690	So when I'm standing in my So when I'm standing in my backyard, it looks like I'm backyard, it looks like I'm standing in my neighbor's standing in my neighbor's backyard because they have 18 backyard because they have 18 windows that overlook my windows that overlook my backyard. So you know, the, uh, backyard. So you know, the, uh, that's not exactly comfortable, that's not exactly comfortable, either.

00:10:55,400	Um, but, uh, you know, either. Um, but, uh, you know, I, I want to provide you with I, I want to provide you with factual information based on factual information based on what has been given to you this what has been given to you this evening, um, on some of the evening, um, on some of the forms, there's some of the

00:11:02,850	forms, there's some of the things that you were provided things that you were provided with earlier today before the 8 with earlier today before the 8 a.m. cut off. Um and, uh, see a.m. cut off. Um and, uh, see if anybody had any questions. if anybody had any questions.

00:11:11,320	Based on any of that stuff Based on any of that stuff that's been provided. that's been provided. Commissioners questions I'm not Commissioners questions I'm not seeing any right now. Tammy. seeing any right now. Tammy. Perfect. Thank you very much Perfect. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for for your time. Thank you for your comments. II.

00:11:27,740	I know your comments. II. I know you're getting tired of hearing you're getting tired of hearing from me, but I do have some new from me, but I do have some new information. Um and I and I information.

00:11:34,940	Um and I and I think one thing needs to be think one thing needs to be made very clear to this made very clear to this commission. Because I. I think commission. Because I. I think Ms Miller is kind of trying to Ms Miller is kind of trying to stand this proceeding on its stand this proceeding on its head. This Commission is the head.

00:11:47,690	This Commission is the one who addresses whether one who addresses whether amendments to a PU occur. amendments to a PU occur. That's not the district court. That's not the district court. That's not the Supreme court. That's not the Supreme court.

00:11:58,330	In fact, Miss Miller recognized In fact, Miss Miller recognized that the district judge in this that the district judge in this case invited this commission to case invited this commission to act. She recognized that's not act. She recognized that's not something within her something within her jurisdiction. The District jurisdiction. The District Court cannot decide. Whether, Court cannot decide.

00:12:10,250	Whether, the city of Bismarck grants an the city of Bismarck grants an amended PUD. They. They simply amended PUD. They. They simply cannot rule on that issue. So cannot rule on that issue.

00:12:21,460	So all this discussion about an all this discussion about an out outdoor kitchen, and all of out outdoor kitchen, and all of that is not germane to what that is not germane to what you're you're hearing in this you're you're hearing in this case now I just heard both Miss case now I just heard both Miss Miller and Miss Berger say. Miller and Miss Berger say. That. This Lomar line was That.

00:12:32,000	This Lomar line was always a static line forever always a static line forever and ever, and nobody ever and ever, and nobody ever thought it was the drainage thought it was the drainage cheese. You don't have to look cheese.

00:12:42,010	You don't have to look any further than the record any further than the record that the city has, and has had that the city has, and has had for many years. Where on for many years. Where on November 16th 2006 the November 16th 2006 the McCormick's requested the 2000. McCormick's requested the 2000.

00:12:55,630	Five Lamar line to be moved for Five Lamar line to be moved for 16 lots in misty waters, and 16 lots in misty waters, and they they've made that request they they've made that request to FEMA and FEMA granted it So to FEMA and FEMA granted it So since at least November 16th since at least November 16th 2006 the city has known The 2006 the city has known The Homeowners Association has

00:13:07,700	Homeowners Association has known That, the 2005 Lamar was known That, the 2005 Lamar was considered by everyone. To be a considered by everyone. To be a movable line, not a static line. movable line, not a static line. The. North Dakota Supreme court The.

00:13:24,720	North Dakota Supreme court has now decided Almost 17 years has now decided Almost 17 years later, it's a static line. So later, it's a static line. So here we are. But. There's no here we are. But.

00:13:35,930	There's no dispute that that the city the dispute that that the city the homeowners Association, homeowners Association, everyone Understood this to be everyone Understood this to be a movable line because FEMA a movable line because FEMA allowed it to be moved for 16 allowed it to be moved for 16 Bayfront lots when Mr McCormick, Bayfront lots when Mr McCormick, the developer made that request. the developer made that request. So.

00:13:47,240	You know the issue here So. You know the issue here isn't whether the 2005 Lamar isn't whether the 2005 Lamar lion ever existed. It's It's lion ever existed.

00:13:59,350	It's It's what was done by the city and what was done by the city and what can a homeowner Reasonably what can a homeowner Reasonably rely on, you know, Ms Miller rely on, you know, Ms Miller says that the seller should be says that the seller should be absolute Lomar experts. You absolute Lomar experts. You know there. It's their know there. It's their responsibility. They can't rely responsibility. They can't rely on the city.

00:14:07,800	They can't rely on on the city. They can't rely on anybody else. That's not how it anybody else. That's not how it works in the real world. People works in the real world. People cannot be all become Lomar. cannot be all become Lomar.

00:14:17,710	Experts at misty waters, nor Experts at misty waters, nor should they be expected to be should they be expected to be they should be able to they should be able to reasonably rely on the city and reasonably rely on the city and the homeowners Association and the homeowners Association and the developer. And their the developer.

00:14:28,650	And their builder to go through the builder to go through the process with the city and get process with the city and get the approval. And. That's the approval. And. That's exactly what the sellers did in exactly what the sellers did in this situation exactly what the this situation exactly what the Reeses did. You've heard a lot Reeses did. You've heard a lot of people talk about that.

00:14:38,230	It of people talk about that. It was always the drainage was always the drainage easement. So what they're easement. So what they're saying. Really isn't supported saying. Really isn't supported this. This is not a a court. this. This is not a a court. Trial.

00:14:47,940	This is a simple request Trial. This is a simple request by eight applicants. To have an by eight applicants. To have an amended PU, which is strictly amended PU, which is strictly your jurisdiction and to say, your jurisdiction and to say, uh, that this application is is uh, that this application is is moot.

00:15:00,620	As Ms, Miller has said is moot. As Ms, Miller has said is not true. You're the only ones not true. You're the only ones that can address that It's not that can address that It's not moot. This is the place that moot.

00:15:10,130	This is the place that has to be addressed and the has to be addressed and the staff has made the staff has made the recommendation that it should recommendation that it should be approved. They've met all be approved. They've met all the factors you consider. What the factors you consider. What a court considers is an a court considers is an entirely different set of entirely different set of factors.

00:15:22,000	They're not going to factors. They're not going to consider the same things you consider the same things you are. They're going to consider are. They're going to consider completely different factors completely different factors and they're going to have their and they're going to have their day in court. And. They say. day in court. And. They say.

00:15:31,980	Well, Uh, we've lost value Well, Uh, we've lost value because I've got this long because I've got this long house beside me. That's an house beside me. That's an argument and they're going to argument and they're going to present evidence to the court, present evidence to the court, and that's going to be and that's going to be addressed by the jury.

00:15:40,590	They addressed by the jury. They have a lack of privacy claim, have a lack of privacy claim, and they say no amount of money. and they say no amount of money. They've quantified an amount of They've quantified an amount of money they're requesting from money they're requesting from the jury.

00:15:49,370	For their lack of the jury. For their lack of privacy, as described by Ms privacy, as described by Ms Berger. So for them to say no Berger. So for them to say no amount of money. They've come amount of money. They've come up with a number. They've got up with a number. They've got an appraisal.

00:15:58,040	They had someone an appraisal. They had someone come out and testify and issue come out and testify and issue a report saying it's worth X a report saying it's worth X amount of dollars less. They're amount of dollars less.

00:16:05,950	They're going to present that to the going to present that to the jury and the jury is going to jury and the jury is going to decide that we're not asking decide that we're not asking this commission to address any this commission to address any of those factors on damages. of those factors on damages.

00:16:15,290	But the fact of the matter is But the fact of the matter is is none of this is moot and is none of this is moot and none of this is going to be none of this is going to be decided in any court action. It decided in any court action. It can only be decided by you. And can only be decided by you.

00:16:24,470	And the only ones that are arguing the only ones that are arguing about is the sellers. They're about is the sellers. They're not even discussing really. The. not even discussing really. The. Other. Seven applicants who Other. Seven applicants who have At stake here. The have At stake here. The opportunity. Have their home. opportunity. Have their home.

00:16:38,110	Stay in place for Mr Cray to be Stay in place for Mr Cray to be able to try to sell her lot and able to try to sell her lot and and be able to tell someone and be able to tell someone what areas usable or not usable. what areas usable or not usable. And.

00:16:45,990	This is all going to And. This is all going to affect the other homeowners who affect the other homeowners who are out of violation. Whatever are out of violation. Whatever happens in this lawsuit. Is not happens in this lawsuit. Is not going to affect those other going to affect those other landowners in any way.

00:16:57,070	So landowners in any way. So You're here today to discuss You're here today to discuss whether the applicants met the whether the applicants met the factors you consider. The staff factors you consider.

00:17:07,540	The staff says they have you've heard the says they have you've heard the testimony by people that they testimony by people that they got all the required approvals got all the required approvals and they shouldn't be penalized. and they shouldn't be penalized. You should approve this You should approve this application. I don't know if application. I don't know if anyone has any questions. anyone has any questions. Questions commissioners. I.

00:17:21,520	Questions commissioners. I. Don't think so, Randy. Thank Don't think so, Randy. Thank you. Uh, good evening, ladies you. Uh, good evening, ladies and gentlemen, Commissioners, and gentlemen, Commissioners, uh, chair. My name is Darren uh, chair. My name is Darren Berger. Unambiguous, Berger. Unambiguous, unambiguous, unambiguous. unambiguous, unambiguous. Unambiguous.

00:17:47,780	I might have Unambiguous. I might have missed one or two, but that missed one or two, but that represents the number of times represents the number of times either myself or Pat Spielman either myself or Pat Spielman or anybody. My attorney at the or anybody. My attorney at the previous time.

00:17:59,130	Ask the sellers, previous time. Ask the sellers, their builder, the city or the their builder, the city or the ho A to stop construction. You ho A to stop construction. You have a problem. And now they're have a problem. And now they're here before you today, saying here before you today, saying help! We didn't believe you.

00:18:11,610	help! We didn't believe you. Please put up that slide again Please put up that slide again that that shows the proposed that that shows the proposed amendment. And. My attorney amendment. And. My attorney briefly touched on it. The, briefly touched on it.

00:18:24,890	The, project manager for this project manager for this application is Mike guns who I application is Mike guns who I spoke with on the phone. I spoke with on the phone. I asked Excuse me. When did you asked Excuse me. When did you speak to me? I'm. I'm talking speak to me? I'm. I'm talking right now. I can look it up.

00:18:34,700	I right now. I can look it up. I have it recorded I asked Mike have it recorded I asked Mike Gunsch what he thought because Gunsch what he thought because he said he was going to atone he said he was going to atone for prior sins at misty waters

00:18:43,670	for prior sins at misty waters with his updated firm maps that with his updated firm maps that he was preparing for the state. he was preparing for the state.

00:18:50,580	And I asked him about Jim and And I asked him about Jim and Teresa Reese's house and why it Teresa Reese's house and why it didn't show a setback line and didn't show a setback line and he said, That's a surveyor's he said, That's a surveyor's fault that is their fault that is their responsibility to submit an responsibility to submit an accurate site plan showing all accurate site plan showing all setbacks, including the setback

00:19:01,260	setbacks, including the setback who provided that site plan. I who provided that site plan. I said. Well, let me look and I said. Well, let me look and I go. Oh, no, Mike, You're not go. Oh, no, Mike, You're not gonna like this. Houston gonna like this. Houston Engineering.

00:19:09,600	So at the Engineering. So at the beginning of this four or five beginning of this four or five hours ago, we heard of possible hours ago, we heard of possible conflicts of interest. Is that conflicts of interest. Is that right? Wondered. Why Mike guns right? Wondered.

00:19:18,540	Why Mike guns is involved with Houston is involved with Houston Engineering here who might have Engineering here who might have a financial incentive might be a financial incentive might be looking at a lawsuit. Just some looking at a lawsuit. Just some things to consider. This is things to consider. This is supposed to, uh, apparently supposed to, uh, apparently benefit. Everybody involved.

00:19:29,620	benefit. Everybody involved. Somebody's gonna have to tell Somebody's gonna have to tell me I'm a little pie shape me I'm a little pie shape that's missing here. How. You that's missing here. How. You can have a PUD within a PUD can have a PUD within a PUD minus one lot.

00:19:42,000	Talk about minus one lot. Talk about significant money. I was young significant money. I was young when I bought that lot. That is when I bought that lot. That is a significant investment for me. a significant investment for me. I think I bought the first lot I think I bought the first lot out there.

00:19:50,410	And for somebody out there. And for somebody else to now go behind our back else to now go behind our back and say, Oh, by the way are we and say, Oh, by the way are we changed our covenants outside changed our covenants outside of a meeting? Now, you're of a meeting? Now, you're setback is down to the drainage

00:19:59,980	setback is down to the drainage easement, No authority I. I easement, No authority I. I wasn't asked to vote. What is wasn't asked to vote. What is going on here. And as anybody going on here. And as anybody brought up the fact. That. The. brought up the fact. That. The. The.

00:20:10,190	Jason Sellers is our The. Jason Sellers is our president of RHO, a The president of RHO, a The Builder's dad is the vice Builder's dad is the vice president. And this did not go president. And this did not go through the HOA. I wonder why through the HOA. I wonder why We weren't even asked to vote.

00:20:21,800	We weren't even asked to vote. I gotta find out about it. I gotta find out about it. Mailing from the city. And my Mailing from the city. And my setback in the covenants have setback in the covenants have been changed. Not what I signed been changed.

00:20:34,750	Not what I signed up for Not what I invested in up for Not what I invested in I'm Just gonna leave you? You I'm Just gonna leave you? You know we can go back and forth. know we can go back and forth. This is unambiguous. This has This is unambiguous.

00:20:43,360	This has been this has been tried been this has been tried Everything they've tried had no Everything they've tried had no legally failed. We're done with legally failed. We're done with it. So now they're here asking it. So now they're here asking for your help to bail them out. for your help to bail them out. They could have stopped. Save They could have stopped. Save the tears.

00:20:53,770	You should have the tears. You should have stopped. I have rights, too. I stopped. I have rights, too. I have an investment. How does have an investment.

00:21:04,450	How does that not further diminish the that not further diminish the value of my property? By now value of my property? By now letting the neighbors on the letting the neighbors on the other side of me build down to other side of me build down to the damn drainage easement. Are the damn drainage easement. Are you kidding me? Questions. you kidding me? Questions. Commissioner's questions. For Commissioner's questions. For darren. Erin. I'm not seeing darren. Erin. I'm not seeing any. Thank you. Thank you.

00:21:23,130	Mr any. Thank you. Thank you. Mr Chair. Since Houston Chair. Since Houston engineering has been thrown out engineering has been thrown out there a couple of times. Let me there a couple of times. Let me address some issues, Darren. I. address some issues, Darren. I. Don't recall the conversation.

00:21:31,270	Don't recall the conversation. We probably had it. I talked to We probably had it. I talked to a lot of people a lot of times. a lot of people a lot of times. Uh, it is a survey or issue. Uh, it is a survey or issue.

00:21:38,550	You would not know as a You would not know as a planning commission. But planning commission. But Houston Engineering did that a Houston Engineering did that a lot in that line did not show lot in that line did not show on that map. Had. I not on that map. Had. I not reported it.

00:21:48,290	That's in the reported it. That's in the documentation. Why because it's documentation. Why because it's my professional obligation to my professional obligation to report that now going back to report that now going back to the survey when it was done in the survey when it was done in 2009, our surveyor who's no

00:21:55,900	2009, our surveyor who's no longer with us. He's retired, longer with us. He's retired, um he worked with the city. And um he worked with the city. And develop the site plan and the develop the site plan and the lot certificate based on all lot certificate based on all the policies that were in place.

00:22:05,970	the policies that were in place. That's his professional That's his professional obligation. So to point out and obligation. So to point out and say, Hey, You know we did say, Hey, You know we did something in error or because something in error or because of that's not true now.

00:22:14,320	As far of that's not true now. As far as the mapping goes, Yeah when as the mapping goes, Yeah when we come up with a new map, and we come up with a new map, and it's being redone, which the it's being redone, which the county has adopted, those county has adopted, those things change.

00:22:25,490	Did did that map things change. Did did that map get created for the intent of get created for the intent of removing that Lomar? No, Those removing that Lomar? No, Those things happen as part of that things happen as part of that process. It's part of the process.

00:22:32,670	It's part of the federal process and the federal process and the remapping. And. Are there remapping. And. Are there issues out there with the issues out there with the existing, um Lomar line for the existing, um Lomar line for the inconsistencies and the inconsistencies and the differences in elevations. differences in elevations.

00:22:44,480	There are I've noted those, uh There are I've noted those, uh there are another ones. Like I there are another ones. Like I said. There are places pointed said. There are places pointed out to Comm. Bitner, where that out to Comm. Bitner, where that law mower line is on the Back law mower line is on the Back edge of the storm.

00:22:52,350	Water edge of the storm. Water easement Well. In all reality easement Well. In all reality That's probably where it should That's probably where it should have been for the rest of the have been for the rest of the subdivision. How well for the subdivision. How well for the elevations are different.

00:22:59,030	The elevations are different. The elevations. Within Dream circle elevations. Within Dream circle vary. They're 2 ft. Above. vary. They're 2 ft. Above. Where. The Contour was intended Where.

00:23:09,240	The Contour was intended to be based on the ordinance, to be based on the ordinance, so it was an elevation based so it was an elevation based location and is, uh Attorney, location and is, uh Attorney, Bakke pointed out that line can Bakke pointed out that line can be moved and it was moved by be moved and it was moved by the developer in 2006. I the developer in 2006.

00:23:16,980	I pointed that out earlier, pointed that out earlier, Unfortunately. The court made Unfortunately. The court made the decision. It's 2005 so the the decision. It's 2005 so the 2006 line doesn't matter. As 2006 line doesn't matter. As far as the court's far as the court's determination, so it goes back determination, so it goes back to this body.

00:23:28,090	To make the to this body. To make the decision relative to the decision relative to the setback. Thank you. Have any setback. Thank you. Have any questions? Commissioner's questions? Commissioner's questions for Michael. Thank questions for Michael. Thank you. Mr Chair. Good evening you. Mr Chair. Good evening commissioners.

00:24:01,760	My name is rich commissioners. My name is rich sby. I'm, a real estate sby. I'm, a real estate investor, and I buy a lot of investor, and I buy a lot of property and I own a lot of property and I own a lot of property in Bismarck.

00:24:11,700	In 2005 I property in Bismarck. In 2005 I met with Mr Steve McCormick. I met with Mr Steve McCormick. I believe I'm the second owner of believe I'm the second owner of the of the property bought on the of the property bought on Misty Waters.

00:24:20,910	I closed a deal Misty Waters. I closed a deal with him in February of six. At with him in February of six. At the time I stood on the banks the time I stood on the banks of Misty Waters and Steve of Misty Waters and Steve McCormick on my side.

00:24:28,320	I asked McCormick on my side. I asked him You know how far down can I him You know how far down can I build my home? He said. We've build my home? He said. We've got sit back and allow my line. got sit back and allow my line.

00:24:41,130	Ironically enough, A few years Ironically enough, A few years later. I started getting nasty later. I started getting nasty letters from Teresa Reese letters from Teresa Reese because I went to the core of because I went to the core of engineers and got a permit to engineers and got a permit to put my dock.

00:24:51,270	Which was approved put my dock. Which was approved by the Corps of Engineers on my by the Corps of Engineers on my lot 71 at misty waters. She's lot 71 at misty waters.

00:24:59,680	She's sending me nasty letters about sending me nasty letters about you have to build a home within you have to build a home within a year or two. Here's the gal. a year or two. Here's the gal. That is enforcing rules and That is enforcing rules and she's violated the the setback she's violated the the setback herself. Obviously. She knew herself. Obviously. She knew she was over the setback.

00:25:14,360	I've she was over the setback. I've heard a lot of stuff going on heard a lot of stuff going on here today and it just it here today and it just it really ridiculous and some of really ridiculous and some of these comments and then the these comments and then the Where's this? Uh More B, this

00:25:24,100	Where's this? Uh More B, this hairy Guy. I. I never got hairy Guy. I. I never got contacted by anybody. But the contacted by anybody. But the HO a about any of this to sign HO a about any of this to sign anything about this thing that anything about this thing that Jason sellers.

00:25:37,190	I don't know Mr Jason sellers. I don't know Mr sellers. I don't know who he is. sellers. I don't know who he is. I've never met him not against I've never met him not against him, but we need to straighten him, but we need to straighten some things out. Because.

00:25:44,790	I was some things out. Because. I was a friend of Jeff Carlson's and a friend of Jeff Carlson's and I was around the corner with I was around the corner with Doug Schmidt brought up as Doug Schmidt brought up as architectural Guy. All of this. architectural Guy. All of this.

00:25:54,140	What, he said, is exactly What, he said, is exactly correct. All of this is correct correct. All of this is correct the good neighbor policy this the good neighbor policy this Guy built and built and built Guy built and built and built and built, even though he knew and built, even though he knew he shouldn't have been And.

00:26:05,550	He he shouldn't have been And. He just continued to build because just continued to build because he didn't care. I am sure he didn't care. I am sure People because I also own People because I also own Missouri Valley insurance, and Missouri Valley insurance, and I have clients who know Jason

00:26:14,760	I have clients who know Jason sellers and they told me that sellers and they told me that Jason sellers is going to fight Jason sellers is going to fight this to the very end because he this to the very end because he doesn't care. Quote.

00:26:27,500	So I get doesn't care. Quote. So I get This is what I sent to this This is what I sent to this Bill Harry. Back on. May 7th at Bill Harry. Back on. May 7th at 1:47 P.m.. Hi, Bill. My name is 1:47 P.m.. Hi, Bill. My name is rich Shaby.

00:26:39,920	I'm a loud owner at rich Shaby. I'm a loud owner at misty waters since 2006 My misty waters since 2006 My address is 69 01 Misty Waters address is 69 01 Misty Waters Drive. I have a couple of Drive. I have a couple of questions for you. Why was the questions for you.

00:26:51,990	Why was the information your law firm information your law firm provided on April 26th despite provided on April 26th despite the letter being dated April the letter being dated April 15th Why did. Why did we 15th Why did.

00:27:06,710	Why did we receive this valuable receive this valuable information? Eight days after information? Eight days after the amended covets, were the amended covets, were already recorded on April 18th. already recorded on April 18th. At burly county. Doesn't this At burly county.

00:27:18,620	Doesn't this mean this information your law mean this information your law firm provided did not even give firm provided did not even give us lot owners a chance to vote us lot owners a chance to vote on this. Finally. The amended on this. Finally. The amended Covenant suggests that the new Covenant suggests that the new setback for all existing lot setback for all existing lot owners is now the drainage owners is now the drainage easement line.

00:27:30,900	What authority easement line. What authority do you or any of my neighbors do you or any of my neighbors have to change the setback on have to change the setback on my property without even my my property without even my prior knowledge or or a vote? prior knowledge or or a vote? Or my permission.

00:27:47,980	This was sent Or my permission. This was sent To, this attorney that sat To, this attorney that sat right over there. The one that right over there. The one that got up here for auto owners. got up here for auto owners. I'm an insurance broker. I know I'm an insurance broker. I know the rules.

00:27:57,720	He's out to protect the rules. He's out to protect auto owners insurance. That's auto owners insurance. That's what he's here to do. He's not what he's here to do. He's not here. He's supposed to be here. He's supposed to be representing me a lot owner. He representing me a lot owner. He never responded to this email.

00:28:07,700	never responded to this email. That's why I wanted to see him That's why I wanted to see him here. He's not here now. here. He's not here now. There's a copy of it. I'll be There's a copy of it. I'll be happy to provide it to you.

00:28:15,010	No happy to provide it to you. No response. I think it's a shame. response. I think it's a shame. I think it's awful. I know a I think it's awful. I know a lot of people. Most of these lot of people.

00:28:26,560	Most of these people are sitting here didn't people are sitting here didn't own a lot. I did. I haven't own a lot. I did. I haven't built on that lot because I at built on that lot because I at the time I was waiting for my the time I was waiting for my young daughter to get married.

00:28:33,830	young daughter to get married. And, then possibly. I've been And, then possibly. I've been contacted by several people in contacted by several people in this room to buy my lot. And. this room to buy my lot. And. They ended up buying other lots. They ended up buying other lots.

00:28:45,640	The Zoning Commission should The Zoning Commission should not be involved in this at this not be involved in this at this time. He's trying to get out of time. He's trying to get out of something. Any sneaking around something.

00:28:55,120	Any sneaking around to get people to sign it that to get people to sign it that don't even have a clue. I had don't even have a clue. I had several people calling me at my several people calling me at my office said. I. AM sure, and so office said. I.

00:29:02,860	AM sure, and so what the heck is going on rich what the heck is going on rich and I'm telling you after they and I'm telling you after they talked, they've removed their talked, they've removed their names off of this petition names off of this petition that's going around, and it that's going around, and it probably hasn't been updated probably hasn't been updated yet, but there's trouble of

00:29:10,400	yet, but there's trouble of them that are coming on so they them that are coming on so they won't be meeting this won't be meeting this requirement of your 70%. I requirement of your 70%. I asked that you deny this at asked that you deny this at this time.

00:29:21,480	Let this thing go to this time. Let this thing go to court. Let, this thing get court. Let, this thing get resolved, whatever happens is resolved, whatever happens is going to happen. The, North going to happen. The, North Dakota Supreme Court made the Dakota Supreme Court made the decision.

00:29:29,950	Put this on your back, decision. Put this on your back, guys. You don't need this under guys. You don't need this under your right now. You guys got a your right now. You guys got a lot of other stuff to deal with lot of other stuff to deal with already.

00:29:35,890	Is this first issue already. Is this first issue you guys just went through. you guys just went through. That these guys pay the That these guys pay the consequences of their actions. consequences of their actions. If that's what happens. Thank If that's what happens. Thank you for your time. Comm.

00:29:47,900	for you for your time. Comm. for rich at all. I'm not seeing any rich at all. I'm not seeing any rich. Thank you for your rich. Thank you for your comments. You're welcome. How comments. You're welcome.

00:30:02,650	How about one more thing I'd like about one more thing I'd like to say, um, with regard to the to say, um, with regard to the lots being unbuildable, Um, as lots being unbuildable, Um, as I mentioned previously, um the I mentioned previously, um the the Lamar has been established the Lamar has been established for 18 years. Um, we have had for 18 years.

00:30:12,890	Um, we have had many, many homes built in the many, many homes built in the cul de sac. Watts that are cul de sac. Watts that are several 1000 square feet. Um, several 1000 square feet. Um, as as an example the house as as an example the house directly next door to the directly next door to the seller's lot was built.

00:30:22,140	I think seller's lot was built. I think in the last couple of years and in the last couple of years and their home is several 1000 their home is several 1000 square feet. So to say that square feet.

00:30:30,080	So to say that these, uh lots and they had to these, uh lots and they had to go off of they they they're not go off of they they they're not over the the setback as far as over the the setback as far as I'm aware they're within the I'm aware they're within the setback, so they're within the setback, so they're within the current Lomar setback line, and

00:30:37,490	current Lomar setback line, and they still have a several they still have a several several 1000 square foot house. several 1000 square foot house. So to say that these lots are So to say that these lots are not buildable anymore is not buildable anymore is completely Inaccurate. Thank completely Inaccurate. Thank you. Thank you.

00:30:58,110	Um I just want you. Thank you. Um I just want to set the record straight, um, to set the record straight, um, because of something that was because of something that was said that I was a liar. Theresa said that I was a liar. Theresa Rees.

00:31:08,320	Um Tammy had brought up Rees. Um Tammy had brought up the fact that, um, the sheet the fact that, um, the sheet that I had developed that went that I had developed that went to the McCormick's regarding to the McCormick's regarding the C paragraph. Whatever it the C paragraph.

00:31:15,920	Whatever it was that was written in there, was that was written in there, which Referred to the PUD. When which Referred to the PUD. When that was developed. The pod was that was developed. The pod was assumed as the elevation there assumed as the elevation there was no Lomar line that was was no Lomar line that was identified. It was an elevation.

00:31:27,330	identified. It was an elevation. And. That's what the And. That's what the McCormick's approved. Um and McCormick's approved. Um and then the second one regarding then the second one regarding Mr Shaby. Yes. He did receive Mr Shaby. Yes. He did receive some letters. And they were some letters. And they were directed by the McCormacks.

00:31:46,220	directed by the McCormacks. Thank you. Two dates on this Thank you. Two dates on this meeting. Chair. The listeners. meeting. Chair. The listeners. My name is Jerry Ketterling. My name is Jerry Ketterling. I'm, a lot owner and a I'm, a lot owner and a homeowner, Misty waters. homeowner, Misty waters. Anybody care to buy a lot.

00:32:32,800	Or Anybody care to buy a lot. Or home. It's not a very pleasant home. It's not a very pleasant place to live out in misty place to live out in misty waters anymore. Been there 12 waters anymore. Been there 12 years. For the record. All 12 years. For the record.

00:32:46,110	All 12 years I've been provided years I've been provided documentation of a Lomar line documentation of a Lomar line as my setback. Before. I as my setback. Before. I purchased that property. Or purchased that property. Or that luck. That was part of my that luck. That was part of my closure. My purchase and sales closure.

00:33:01,500	My purchase and sales agreements included all that agreements included all that documentation. Every documentation. Every Engineering D document that I Engineering D document that I have ever received. Since 2012. have ever received. Since 2012. Is showing this line. So. Is showing this line. So. Where's the ambiguity of this Where's the ambiguity of this line.

00:33:21,720	Our engineers not trained line. Our engineers not trained More to properly read schematic More to properly read schematic diagrams. And identify leaps diagrams. And identify leaps and bounds points. Have. We and bounds points. Have. We missed that point. Yeah. Can I missed that point. Yeah.

00:33:36,200	Can I expect Someone who is building expect Someone who is building a house who's not an engineer, a house who's not an engineer, to know better or to know these to know better or to know these things. No. That's Why we pay things. No. That's Why we pay you.

00:33:48,210	You guys are in charge of you. You guys are in charge of compliance. I make a living. compliance. I make a living. Looking for compliance Looking for compliance violations. That's all I'm violations. That's all I'm seeing here. And. What I see seeing here. And. What I see over here is a hot potato over here is a hot potato that's moving around.

00:34:02,160	Nobody that's moving around. Nobody wants to fess up and say wants to fess up and say Mistakes were made. Apologize Mistakes were made. Apologize for them. Make this community for them. Make this community whole. How can we When. I have whole. How can we When.

00:34:18,440	I have Mr Harry, who's now flee the Mr Harry, who's now flee the country. It looks like Start. country. It looks like Start. Sending fear, uncertainty and Sending fear, uncertainty and doubt. Into the HOA meeting in doubt. Into the HOA meeting in December. Which we get together December. Which we get together once a year.

00:34:33,850	That's our once a year. That's our community Woohoo once a year. community Woohoo once a year. We get together. Why Because We get together. Why Because we're obligated to to elect new we're obligated to to elect new people for the board Our three people for the board Our three person board Mr Harry.

00:34:51,610	Informed person board Mr Harry. Informed us at our December meeting that us at our December meeting that This lawsuit that is currently This lawsuit that is currently in place and future lawsuits in place and future lawsuits might very well fall into the might very well fall into the hands of liability to the

00:35:02,150	hands of liability to the individual homeowners. Really? individual homeowners. Really? I looked up 503 C. Code here in I looked up 503 C. Code here in North Dakota. Haven't found any North Dakota.

00:35:22,040	Haven't found any Evidence whatsoever that a 503 Evidence whatsoever that a 503 C Members who participate in C Members who participate in Homeowners Association are Homeowners Association are liable for anything that liable for anything that happens. I. Think. I've heard happens. I. Think. I've heard one lawyer even say that we one lawyer even say that we asked for proof of that and asked for proof of that and didn't get it. So. I.

00:35:33,780	Guess I'm didn't get it. So. I. Guess I'm asking guys. What's the problem asking guys. What's the problem here? Who's in charge of here? Who's in charge of compliance for a setback. The compliance for a setback. The Homeowners association. Are you Homeowners association. Are you guys crazy! Come on, really? guys crazy! Come on, really? They're not professionals.

00:35:47,800	They're not professionals. They're not engineers, and they They're not engineers, and they don't deal with this stuff. So. don't deal with this stuff. So. We're paying for a service. If We're paying for a service. If we bring to you plans. And we bring to you plans. And they're missing something. they're missing something.

00:36:02,040	Doesn't, the city have an Doesn't, the city have an obligation to say no, You're obligation to say no, You're missing something. Go Get this missing something. Go Get this right Go talk to your agents. right Go talk to your agents. Make sure they do their job and Make sure they do their job and bring the right documents back.

00:36:13,690	bring the right documents back. If. That's not happening. It's If. That's not happening. It's not on the homeowners. It's not not on the homeowners. It's not on the cellar. It's not on the on the cellar. It's not on the burgers. It's not on me.

00:36:19,890	It's burgers. It's not on me. It's not on any of us. It lies right not on any of us. It lies right here in the city. So. I stand here in the city. So. I stand against this amendment. Because. against this amendment. Because.

00:36:33,410	It's not fair to the rest of It's not fair to the rest of the landowners out there and the landowners out there and it's punitive to the burgers. it's punitive to the burgers. Did you see that carve out Did you see that carve out Really? If. You're gonna do it, Really? If. You're gonna do it, Do it for all of us.

00:36:47,590	Not saying Do it for all of us. Not saying I want that, but be fair. I want that, but be fair. Everybody here needs to become Everybody here needs to become whole. And. I don't think you whole. And. I don't think you guys can do that.

00:36:57,800	Unless We get guys can do that. Unless We get to the bottom of some truth. to the bottom of some truth. And some apologies. Starting, And some apologies. Starting, probably from the city. Thank probably from the city. Thank you. Any questions for Jerry? you.

00:37:13,350	Any questions for Jerry? Thank you, Jerry for your Thank you, Jerry for your comments. We used to be. comments. We used to be. Commissioners, Um, I'm Matt Commissioners, Um, I'm Matt Geiger. I was actually the Geiger.

00:37:40,410	I was actually the first house out in misty waters, first house out in misty waters, and hopefully I'm the last that and hopefully I'm the last that has to speak tonight. It's been has to speak tonight. It's been a long night. Um, I would like a long night. Um, I would like to hand something out. If to hand something out. If that's OK. Yes. Thank you. that's OK. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Right over here.

00:38:25,650	Thank you. Right over here. It's still there. That So I'm It's still there. That So I'm here just to talk about the here just to talk about the inconsistency. And. I'm just inconsistency. And. I'm just gonna give an example. So If, gonna give an example.

00:38:55,720	So If, you look at this lot that I you look at this lot that I purchased a couple of years ago. purchased a couple of years ago. The pink line. Is that 2005 The pink line. Is that 2005 Lamar line. The Yellow line is Lamar line.

00:39:09,460	The Yellow line is where I requested the HO a move where I requested the HO a move the low marle because I said it the low marle because I said it didn't make sense. So. I went didn't make sense. So. I went to the H a and said. Listen I? to the H a and said.

00:39:18,010	Listen I? My engineer just called this My engineer just called this out on me. I didn't know this out on me. I didn't know this was here. It doesn't make any was here. It doesn't make any sense. We go and look at it. sense. We go and look at it.

00:39:25,210	And the atoll, a president at And the atoll, a president at that time was very He was that time was very He was unsure if they would do unsure if they would do anything. Or three weeks later, anything. Or three weeks later, I get a call back and he said I get a call back and he said Yes.

00:39:34,960	That Lamar line makes no Yes. That Lamar line makes no sense. We will. Prove You can sense. We will. Prove You can move that Lamar line to where move that Lamar line to where the yellow line shows. Now. I the yellow line shows. Now.

00:39:45,630	I got the H a president to sign got the H a president to sign this. But. I also got the this. But. I also got the developer to sign a Steve developer to sign a Steve McCormick Which just tells you McCormick Which just tells you how much confusion there has how much confusion there has been out here. Um Now.

00:39:57,180	This HO been out here. Um Now. This HO a board. Wasn't the board the a board. Wasn't the board the Jason seller board. Um, it Jason seller board. Um, it isn't the board today. It was isn't the board today.

00:40:10,720	It was that middle board? So This has that middle board? So This has been confusion throughout these been confusion throughout these boards of where this line If. boards of where this line If. It's a stagnant line or if it It's a stagnant line or if it if it can move. So Now. I'm if it can move. So Now.

00:40:20,130	I'm here with this lot that I have here with this lot that I have no idea. Is this? Can I Where no idea. Is this? Can I Where can I build on this line is can I build on this line is this lot sellable? That's the this lot sellable? That's the question today for me so Um

00:40:31,680	question today for me so Um Some of you know, I've Some of you know, I've developed a lot of properties developed a lot of properties in burly county. I have seen in burly county. I have seen these people go out and get 73%. these people go out and get 73%. Of a vote.

00:40:45,390	That is impossible Of a vote. That is impossible almost to get 73% of people to almost to get 73% of people to agree on something. And. If. agree on something. And. If. And. If. You're wondering why And. If. You're wondering why they agreed. It's because of they agreed. It's because of empathy.

00:40:56,240	I mean I can go on my empathy. I mean I can go on my back porch and I can pick out back porch and I can pick out two homes that are over this two homes that are over this line. But. If I look at those line. But. If I look at those two homes.

00:41:04,580	I can't tell that two homes. I can't tell that They don't look like they're They don't look like they're out of place. But. Apparently. out of place. But. Apparently. They're out of place. And so I They're out of place.

00:41:12,790	And so I think that that's the That's think that that's the That's the reason that you had such a the reason that you had such a big percentage. It's just big percentage. It's just empathy. You know it's we don't empathy. You know it's we don't wanna see these neighbors hurt. wanna see these neighbors hurt. I. I. Wanna see these neighbors I. I. Wanna see these neighbors be able to sleep at night. And.

00:41:22,730	be able to sleep at night. And. I hope this doesn't get pushed I hope this doesn't get pushed down the road because spent a down the road because spent a long time since a lot of these long time since a lot of these neighbors did sleep.

00:41:29,540	So with neighbors did sleep. So with that. I Hope you approve the that. I Hope you approve the PUD change? Any questions, PUD change? Any questions, Commissioners. Comm. Wan. Matt Commissioners. Comm. Wan. Matt since you had the first home since you had the first home out on the bay at Ty Waters.

00:41:44,690	out on the bay at Ty Waters. How did you know what your How did you know what your setback was? As a Lot owner setback was? As a Lot owner there as a home builder and as there as a home builder and as a developer, so I built the

00:41:54,630	a developer, so I built the first home out there. And. The first home out there. And. The rear setback was not even in rear setback was not even in the picture because my house the picture because my house was so far forward, So. I. was so far forward, So. I. Guess. It was never addressed.

00:42:01,300	Guess. It was never addressed. I never even paid attention to I never even paid attention to it. Um, I have built several it. Um, I have built several houses out in misty waters. And. houses out in misty waters. And. Apparently, one of them was Apparently, one of them was within one inch. And.

00:42:13,080	That within one inch. And. That survey was done by Toman survey was done by Toman Engineering who's the Engineering who's the engineering company for the engineering company for the developer? It's a little scary. developer? It's a little scary. So Thank you. Any other So Thank you. Any other questions.

00:42:33,000	I do want to say one questions. I do want to say one more thing. Jackie Lundstrom more thing. Jackie Lundstrom got brought up because she had got brought up because she had to cut off part of the back of to cut off part of the back of her house. She also has empathy.

00:42:39,270	her house. She also has empathy. She signed that she wanted this She signed that she wanted this PUT changed. Because he doesn't PUT changed. Because he doesn't want it to happen to somebody want it to happen to somebody else. Thank you. Thank you, else. Thank you. Thank you, Matt for your comments.

00:42:51,690	Oh, I Matt for your comments. Oh, I think we're nearing the end? Um, think we're nearing the end? Um, I'm not gonna reiterate I'm not gonna reiterate arguments. Just facts. Uh, arguments. Just facts. Uh, there was, uh the 2000 or 16. there was, uh the 2000 or 16.

00:43:05,170	Lots got brought up, Alomar was Lots got brought up, Alomar was changed for them. That request changed for them. That request was done by Steve McCormick, was done by Steve McCormick, and the request was not to and the request was not to change the setback for those change the setback for those lots.

00:43:15,180	It was to obtain a new lots. It was to obtain a new Lomar because those lots still Lomar because those lots still remained in the floodplain. remained in the floodplain.

00:43:24,520	That's it and that, um That That's it and that, um That information is in the packet of information is in the packet of information I sent you guys and information I sent you guys and it's also um, addressed by the it's also um, addressed by the North Dakota Supreme Court. North Dakota Supreme Court. Finally, um The Um Sorry to Finally, um The Um Sorry to gather my thoughts here. Oh the gather my thoughts here.

00:43:41,170	Oh the the gentleman just got up here the gentleman just got up here and talked about obtaining 73% and talked about obtaining 73% of the homeowners. As. I said. of the homeowners. As. I said. That's being challenged, Um, That's being challenged, Um, and it's apparent that some and it's apparent that some individuals were told very individuals were told very misleading information.

00:43:53,750	Uh, misleading information. Uh, they were told to sign this to they were told to sign this to escape liability. They're told escape liability. They're told to sign this else. We're all at to sign this else.

00:44:03,960	We're all at risk of being liable, and we've risk of being liable, and we've had many discussions about how had many discussions about how there's no That. That's to be there's no That. That's to be true, um, and was used just as true, um, and was used just as a scare tactic. Thank you. a scare tactic. Thank you. Thank you. With that the podium Thank you.

00:44:17,470	With that the podium is open for others that would is open for others that would care to address the commission. care to address the commission. OK? Wherever I sign in, but OK? Wherever I sign in, but Some Isola. Somebody stole it Some Isola. Somebody stole it again. Oh Somebody stole it, OK? again. Oh Somebody stole it, OK? Hang on.

00:44:43,260	We're we're gonna Oh, Hang on. We're we're gonna Oh, see paper. Tired something that see paper. Tired something that you mean You want something to you mean You want something to sign too? I got the money. Can, sign too? I got the money. Can, somebody turn on the overhead, somebody turn on the overhead, please, just for me. Thank you.

00:45:26,440	please, just for me. Thank you. Good Evening, Mr Chair Good Evening, Mr Chair Commissioners. I am Pat Spelman. Commissioners. I am Pat Spelman. I have probably built the I have probably built the second house that miss the second house that miss the waters.

00:45:34,380	I built one next to waters. I built one next to Matt Geiger. Uh, Well We've Matt Geiger. Uh, Well We've talked about tonight. I can't talked about tonight. I can't deal with feelings. I'm an deal with feelings. I'm an engineer. I, too. Am, a engineer. I, too. Am, a professional engineer. My job professional engineer. My job is to keep the public informed.

00:45:46,760	is to keep the public informed. And the moral of the story is I And the moral of the story is I have just a few things and I'll have just a few things and I'll get out of your hair. If. I get out of your hair. If.

00:45:57,070	I could this is this is what This could this is this is what This is what has caused So much is what has caused So much discourse in our sideways. discourse in our sideways. Thank you. It's uh Now. How did Thank you. It's uh Now. How did this house get built is my this house get built is my question.

00:46:18,220	Here is the building question. Here is the building permit. It says Back Yard permit. It says Back Yard Setback 30 FT. Look how far we Setback 30 FT. Look how far we how many houses have been built? how many houses have been built? I'm the one that four years ago. I'm the one that four years ago.

00:46:30,440	Pretty close to tonight could Pretty close to tonight could have been in July at a have been in July at a commission meeting. I stopped commission meeting.

00:46:40,110	I stopped Jason sellers and his builder Jason sellers and his builder on the north side of this on the north side of this building after the meeting and building after the meeting and told jason nobody's gonna win told jason nobody's gonna win in this situation. That was in this situation. That was four years ago. I'm, the one four years ago. I'm, the one that reported it being over to that reported it being over to Brady. I came in.

00:46:50,390	Did a site Brady. I came in. Did a site visit Documentations in your visit Documentations in your packet. You know. Here we go. packet. You know. Here we go. We got a setback issue. My We got a setback issue. My dilemma here is I agree, I. I dilemma here is I agree, I.

00:47:06,570	I don't hold any harm against any don't hold any harm against any Yeah ill feelings towards Yeah ill feelings towards anyone, but the house is built anyone, but the house is built across this is what was across this is what was submitted. I believe to the submitted. I believe to the Bismarck. Building an Bismarck.

00:47:18,620	Building an inspections and the permit was, inspections and the permit was, uh, produced Long story short. uh, produced Long story short. I'm opposed to this amendment. I'm opposed to this amendment.

00:47:34,240	Part of it is because what it Part of it is because what it does In terms of other lawsuits, does In terms of other lawsuits, but what you haven't talked but what you haven't talked about is what this does to the about is what this does to the HO, a In your pocket. There's HO, a In your pocket.

00:47:44,180	There's my resignation today as the my resignation today as the secretary of the The Missy secretary of the The Missy Waters HO, a I was trying to Waters HO, a I was trying to find the HO a an attorney to be find the HO a an attorney to be to represent the HO a itself in to represent the HO a itself in the members. Didn't happen in the members.

00:47:55,260	Didn't happen in seven months here of my me seven months here of my me being on the board. I still being on the board. I still think the ho a needs to have An think the ho a needs to have An attorney that represents the attorney that represents the HOA and all of these matters HOA and all of these matters with insurance lawsuits, all

00:48:08,870	with insurance lawsuits, all the rest so that our members the rest so that our members can have a meeting and come in can have a meeting and come in and ask questions. Are. We and ask questions. Are. We liable as an association. For liable as an association.

00:48:21,550	For Uh, Awards in excess of the Uh, Awards in excess of the insurance. Those kinds of insurance. Those kinds of things. I'm still after that, things. I'm still after that, But when I went in I paid my But when I went in I paid my own money for two attorneys to own money for two attorneys to tell me that I'm at risk.

00:48:33,290	Is tell me that I'm at risk. Is why I resigned now. That being why I resigned now. That being said if you go forward here and said if you go forward here and approve this It's your decision. approve this It's your decision. But.

00:48:43,770	I will tell you also But. I will tell you also handcuff the HO, a There. The handcuff the HO, a There. The ho a before this is all settled ho a before this is all settled and done lawsuits and all as an and done lawsuits and all as an opportunity to Make agreements opportunity to Make agreements for setback.

00:48:58,250	Changes approval, for setback. Changes approval, though coming in terms of though coming in terms of liability, you know, you know, liability, you know, you know, can we let sellers do this? If can we let sellers do this? If we agree that we will indemnify. we agree that we will indemnify.

00:49:09,130	I don't know There's there's I don't know There's there's ways and I mentioned a number ways and I mentioned a number of them in my resignation of them in my resignation letter. I'm trying not to, uh, letter. I'm trying not to, uh, I'm trying to protect myself. I'm trying to protect myself.

00:49:19,070	Protect, the HO A and protect Protect, the HO A and protect everybody else so that this everybody else so that this decision legally doesn't tie. decision legally doesn't tie. Everybody's hands go forward. Everybody's hands go forward. They may be back here tomorrow They may be back here tomorrow or back here next month.

00:49:29,080	And I or back here next month. And I understand? Understand. In some understand? Understand. In some cases time may be of the cases time may be of the essence. But your decision essence. But your decision tonight. There's much more than tonight. There's much more than do you grant.

00:49:42,900	Relief or this do you grant. Relief or this new, uh, mini pud in a pud. I new, uh, mini pud in a pud. I got another name for it. That's got another name for it. That's my concern. I have a I. I take my concern. I have a I.

00:49:55,040	I take issue with some of the issue with some of the explanation, blaming the explanation, blaming the Supreme court for their Supreme court for their decision. The Supreme Court decision. The Supreme Court didn't make a decision. They didn't make a decision. They made an affirmation of existing made an affirmation of existing in the ordinance was valid.

00:50:04,250	It in the ordinance was valid. It was unambiguous. The Supreme was unambiguous. The Supreme Court decided nothing. They Court decided nothing. They they affirmed. The. Other thing they affirmed. The. Other thing I have shown I forwarded some I have shown I forwarded some information to Mr Eric information to Mr Eric Yesterday.

00:50:17,560	I'm tired of hearing Yesterday. I'm tired of hearing that the drainage easement is a that the drainage easement is a requirement of the core of requirement of the core of permit or the core permit. For permit or the core permit. For misty waters. It is not I have misty waters.

00:50:27,210	It is not I have an email from Tony Earhart, the an email from Tony Earhart, the engineer that says it's not, engineer that says it's not, but I challenge I supplied the, but I challenge I supplied the, uh, permit to the city. Show me uh, permit to the city. Show me prove me.

00:50:37,150	Show me proof because prove me. Show me proof because you guys are you know you were you guys are you know you were onward. You are using this onward. You are using this drainage ditch as a, uh, drainage ditch as a, uh, landmark around the development. landmark around the development.

00:50:49,700	Nobody can tell me where that Nobody can tell me where that drainage easement is. There is drainage easement is. There is no meats and bones survey. no meats and bones survey. There is no nothing. It's it's There is no nothing. It's it's a marking on the On the, uh C.

00:51:01,070	a marking on the On the, uh C. And the moral of the story is And the moral of the story is the drainage easement was never the drainage easement was never Was never intended to stay. Was never intended to stay. It's sand. Everybody here knows It's sand.

00:51:12,050	Everybody here knows the city is a sand for water the city is a sand for water filtration because the water filtration because the water flows through it. It was never flows through it. It was never graded for flow. In fact. I'm graded for flow. In fact.

00:51:20,290	I'm probably the only one that paid probably the only one that paid northern improvement to bring northern improvement to bring four loads of sand back to four loads of sand back to repair the Perpendicular cut in repair the Perpendicular cut in the drainage ditch. Because of the drainage ditch. Because of rainwater. It doesn't work. rainwater. It doesn't work.

00:51:31,670	It's not designed to move storm It's not designed to move storm water. No way. It's not. It's water. No way. It's not. It's not graded as such, san doesn't not graded as such, san doesn't do it, and it wasn't stabilized do it, and it wasn't stabilized in order to be a drainage ditch.

00:51:40,010	in order to be a drainage ditch. Uh, with that There's a. Uh, with that There's a. There's A number of, uh And. So There's A number of, uh And. So what I'm trying to do is you're what I'm trying to do is you're gonna use this as a reference.

00:51:48,020	gonna use this as a reference. But. How the heck do we know But. How the heck do we know where it's at? We're gonna where it's at? We're gonna argue again. Is it over here. argue again. Is it over here. Is it up here.

00:51:55,560	Is it back here Is it up here. Is it back here for me. My. My setback The, uh for me. My. My setback The, uh The Lomar setback. Is congruent The Lomar setback. Is congruent And for those that don't know And for those that don't know what congruent means. One and what congruent means. One and the same.

00:52:08,610	With with the the same. With with the drainage, which what shows up drainage, which what shows up as the, um N word edge of the as the, um N word edge of the drainage ditch, So. It's drainage ditch, So. It's changing The setback for me changing The setback for me makes no difference.

00:52:17,550	They are makes no difference. They are one and the same. My neighbor one and the same. My neighbor over in the corner of the cul over in the corner of the cul de sac, where the cul de sac de sac, where the cul de sac the inward Curves where they go.

00:52:26,390	the inward Curves where they go. My neighbors actually gonna My neighbors actually gonna lose land. To build on because lose land. To build on because The Lawn Mower line goes The Lawn Mower line goes through the goes Across the through the goes Across the corner of the drainage ditch as

00:52:37,670	corner of the drainage ditch as shown. There's whole There's shown. There's whole There's all kinds of challenges out all kinds of challenges out there. There's all kinds of there. There's all kinds of room for, uh, Negotiation yet room for, uh, Negotiation yet in terms of Settlements. Will in terms of Settlements. Will that happen? I don't know. But.

00:52:52,820	that happen? I don't know. But. You're gonna lock the hands of You're gonna lock the hands of the HO A. In addition To, uh, the HO A. In addition To, uh, stifling other activities in stifling other activities in the courts. And potential for the courts.

00:53:05,760	And potential for resolution with our without resolution with our without more legal Uh, Scrambling. Sort more legal Uh, Scrambling. Sort that I'll leave you Uh, I'm that I'll leave you Uh, I'm opposed to it. I think there's opposed to it. I think there's other ways to accomplish what other ways to accomplish what we need to do. And.

00:53:17,780	We can go we need to do. And. We can go from there. I do have some from there. I do have some concerns with what Mr Gun said. concerns with what Mr Gun said.

00:53:27,720	In terms of Laws and that but In terms of Laws and that but I'll take that issue up with I'll take that issue up with him personally. I am a him personally. I am a registered engineer. Fun registered engineer. Fun discussions. We've already had discussions. We've already had them on the floating Lomar line. them on the floating Lomar line. So. Thank you for your time.

00:53:36,860	So. Thank you for your time. Have A good evening. I'm out of Have A good evening. I'm out of here. Commissioner's questions here. Commissioner's questions for Pat before he escapes. for Pat before he escapes. Nothing. Thank you for your Nothing. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your comments. Without.

00:53:53,150	The podium comments. Without. The podium is open for anyone else that is open for anyone else that would care to address the would care to address the commission this evening. Going commission this evening. Going once going twice. I think with once going twice.

00:54:04,760	I think with that we're going to close the that we're going to close the public hearing this evening. public hearing this evening. Commissioners what we have in Commissioners what we have in front of us is a request. Or, a front of us is a request. Or, a PUD amendment. Staff is PUD amendment. Staff is recommending approval. What are recommending approval. What are your wishes? Chair Schwartz.

00:54:29,120	your wishes? Chair Schwartz. I'd like to get one I'd like to get one clarification if we can from clarification if we can from attorney calls, OK Comm. attorney calls, OK Comm. Schmitz. Uh, Janelle, could you Schmitz. Uh, Janelle, could you step to the podium, please? My. step to the podium, please? My.

00:54:43,600	My request for clarification is My request for clarification is on spot spot zoning, which has on spot spot zoning, which has been brought up multiple times been brought up multiple times tonight. And, What is spot tonight. And, What is spot zoning versus not spot zoning zoning versus not spot zoning and he does this request.

00:54:54,540	Uh, and he does this request. Uh, come into that definition. So, come into that definition. So, Uh, Chair Schwartz and planning Uh, Chair Schwartz and planning commissioners. Comm. Schmitz, commissioners. Comm. Schmitz, So. There was some case law So.

00:55:07,590	There was some case law that was provided to you in that was provided to you in your packet of comments with your packet of comments with that Gullickson case, and that Gullickson case, and that's a classic example of that's a classic example of spot zoning. That was one where spot zoning.

00:55:18,900	That was one where there was a residential area there was a residential area and the zoning prohibited and the zoning prohibited absolutely prohibited mobile absolutely prohibited mobile homes or manufactured homes, homes or manufactured homes, and, uh it was missed or and, uh it was missed or something happened And they a something happened And they a lot did a variance, which we've lot did a variance, which we've talked about that that's a

00:55:30,840	talked about that that's a different Process has to have a different Process has to have a hardship that's related to the hardship that's related to the land, not a financial hardship. land, not a financial hardship. And, um That variance to allow And, um That variance to allow that mobile home in that zone.

00:55:42,390	that mobile home in that zone. That's an absolutely no mobile That's an absolutely no mobile homes was spot zoning, so homes was spot zoning, so you've got one place that's you've got one place that's changed. Um, that is different. changed. Um, that is different. From all the others.

00:55:52,830	There were From all the others. There were other cases that were brought other cases that were brought up. After as well. The Dr. up. After as well. The Dr. versus Burle County case was versus Burle County case was the one in 2015. That was the the one in 2015.

00:56:05,240	That was the most Closer to on point as to most Closer to on point as to what it is so spot zoning and I what it is so spot zoning and I figured this question would figured this question would come up, so I actually had it come up, so I actually had it copied before I came down when

00:56:11,950	copied before I came down when an individual lot is singled an individual lot is singled out for discriminatory or out for discriminatory or different treatment than different treatment than surrounding property, Absent a surrounding property, Absent a clear showing of reasonable clear showing of reasonable basis, so This is almost like a

00:56:25,830	basis, so This is almost like a Inverse spot zoning because Inverse spot zoning because they're Trying to change a they're Trying to change a whole bunch of lots. They're whole bunch of lots. They're not trying to change just one not trying to change just one lot to do something different.

00:56:34,510	lot to do something different. They're changing it. They're They're changing it. They're changing several lots. And. Um changing several lots. And. Um some of that is the setback in some of that is the setback in other parts, I believe include other parts, I believe include a a different setback.

00:56:46,650	The a a different setback. The River and other things, So. River and other things, So. It's It's not a Totally foreign It's It's not a Totally foreign type zoning or application, and, type zoning or application, and, um I would say a reasonable um I would say a reasonable basis could be the reason the

00:57:01,530	basis could be the reason the lots not included is the lots not included is the property owner doesn't want it property owner doesn't want it changed. I mean that would be a changed.

00:57:12,110	I mean that would be a reasonable basis to not change reasonable basis to not change the burgers Lot Um so I think the burgers Lot Um so I think spot zoning. It's not Doesn't spot zoning. It's not Doesn't fit the definition from what I fit the definition from what I reviewed in case law. And. You reviewed in case law. And.

00:57:20,920	You just have to look at this case just have to look at this case like you do any other case like you do any other case where we've got competing folks, where we've got competing folks, which we have with different which we have with different opinions, and you look at the opinions, and you look at the law and apply it.

00:57:29,160	The way you law and apply it. The way you need to apply it. Comm. schmitz. need to apply it. Comm. schmitz. Does that answer your question. Does that answer your question. It does. Thank you all right? It does. Thank you all right? Thank you, Mister Bittner. You Thank you, Mister Bittner.

00:57:42,240	You know, sat on this board for a know, sat on this board for a while. I. Don't recall us ever while. I. Don't recall us ever having a case. A situation having a case. A situation where we Modified a PU within a where we Modified a PU within a PUD. I'm.

00:57:55,120	I'm just not aware of PUD. I'm. I'm just not aware of that ever happening and and that ever happening and and whether that's in the whether that's in the ordinances or it's addressed. I ordinances or it's addressed. I just don't know. Because It just don't know.

00:58:08,740	Because It seems to me that There's so seems to me that There's so many ramifications to this. And many ramifications to this. And I'm just not comfortable as a I'm just not comfortable as a matter of fact, I'm thinking matter of fact, I'm thinking maybe I should be talking to maybe I should be talking to the state's attorney or

00:58:15,880	the state's attorney or something before I could make something before I could make any decision on this myself. any decision on this myself. I'm just I'm just not I'm just I'm just not comfortable with it. Thank you comfortable with it. Thank you for your comments. for your comments. Commissioner's additional Commissioner's additional comments. Comm.

00:58:33,360	field looks comments. Comm. field looks like he's going to say like he's going to say something. Well, I haven't seen something. Well, I haven't seen this many lawyers since I seen this many lawyers since I seen Trump heading in the court, so Trump heading in the court, so that's always a bad sign at a

00:58:42,570	that's always a bad sign at a zoning meeting. But I can see zoning meeting. But I can see both sides of this. And and you both sides of this. And and you did a Solomon and cut the baby did a Solomon and cut the baby in half.

00:58:55,920	I'm not willing to in half. I'm not willing to make the decision. So. I'm make the decision. So. I'm gonna say no. Thank you, Comm. gonna say no. Thank you, Comm. Fiel. Commissioner's additional Fiel. Commissioner's additional comments. Mr Michelle. Maybe. comments. Mr Michelle. Maybe.

00:59:16,340	It's a question for South K It's a question for South K have been you asked earlier in have been you asked earlier in and maybe then you answered in and maybe then you answered in some ways, But. Is there the some ways, But.

00:59:25,340	Is there the possibility of a staff possibility of a staff initiated Zoning amendment for initiated Zoning amendment for the PUD that would incorporate the PUD that would incorporate more of these incorporate more more of these incorporate more of these properties into this, of these properties into this, so it's not a Tiny small Lots so it's not a Tiny small Lots of it takes into a more of it takes into a more comprehensive view of of the

00:59:33,090	comprehensive view of of the issue. Uh, yeah. Thanks chair issue. Uh, yeah. Thanks chair and, uh, Comm. shell, Uh, and, uh, Comm. shell, Uh, Commissioners. Um, we We've I. Commissioners. Um, we We've I.

00:59:45,900	I'll say we've never done it I'll say we've never done it before for a PUD we have done before for a PUD we have done staff initiated. Zoning or staff initiated. Zoning or zoning map changes. Usually. zoning map changes. Usually. It's to an existing Uh, zoning It's to an existing Uh, zoning designation to another existing designation to another existing zoning designation. Uh, In zoning designation. Uh, In theory it's in. I Think.

01:00:00,710	I theory it's in. I Think. I confirmed this with Janelle. Uh, confirmed this with Janelle. Uh, I think she agrees with it In I think she agrees with it In theory. It's possible we could theory. It's possible we could replace an existing PUD with an replace an existing PUD with an existing PUD.

01:00:12,590	Depending on what existing PUD. Depending on what items wanted to be changed items wanted to be changed within that beauty, although it within that beauty, although it would have to go through the would have to go through the full Process of zoning adoption, full Process of zoning adoption, so it would have to go through.

01:00:22,870	so it would have to go through. You know, hearing at, uh, You know, hearing at, uh, Planning and Zoning commission, Planning and Zoning commission, and it would have to go through and it would have to go through a hearing and ultimately a hearing and ultimately decision at the at the City

01:00:30,610	decision at the at the City Commission level. Uh, but it Commission level. Uh, but it Like I said. We've not done it Like I said. We've not done it before, but it We think it that before, but it We think it that could be a possibility.

01:00:44,560	To Mr could be a possibility. To Mr Bittner. In terms of time Bittner. In terms of time because they've indicated the because they've indicated the time is of the essence. Is it time is of the essence.

01:00:57,840	Is it possible to work out some sort possible to work out some sort of a solution that Helps more of a solution that Helps more people addresses the things people addresses the things that you know earlier. I was I that you know earlier.

01:01:05,310	I was I was thinking Well if we could was thinking Well if we could get everybody you know in there, get everybody you know in there, but then that apparently but then that apparently wouldn't have been a good wouldn't have been a good solution based on testimony solution based on testimony from another Guy. And so I'm from another Guy. And so I'm thinking. How much time. Do. thinking. How much time. Do. You think it would take If. If.

01:01:15,520	You think it would take If. If. September is the court date for September is the court date for us to have Something. Better. I us to have Something. Better. I don't I don't Well, No. I don't don't I don't Well, No. I don't even know what could be better.

01:01:26,630	even know what could be better. Comm. Bitner May I Think if you Comm. Bitner May I Think if you put the calendar to it Would be put the calendar to it Would be at the end of August at the at the end of August at the best.

01:01:37,010	And that's assuming best. And that's assuming Everything got done in time for Everything got done in time for planning and zoning by next Me. planning and zoning by next Me. Right? You have to have two. Right? You have to have two. We'd have to have two We'd have to have two commission meetings.

01:01:46,350	We have to commission meetings. We have to have a call for And, then the have a call for And, then the commission meeting. Unless commission meeting. Unless unless we continued. This one unless we continued. This one is No. Do you do you think is No.

01:01:59,230	Do you do you think continuing this one would continuing this one would address that. Although in just address that. Although in just a minute Comm. bit. I think Jan a minute Comm. bit. I think Jan has Comm. ritner so we don't has Comm. ritner so we don't have the legal description with have the legal description with other property.

01:02:10,380	With this other property. With this application, so to bring in the application, so to bring in the other property you've got to other property you've got to have That's a different process. have That's a different process. Yeah because, I I can't amend Yeah because, I I can't amend that here.

01:02:23,390	I mean we could take that here. I mean we could take an oral application, maybe, of an oral application, maybe, of certain ones that want to do it. certain ones that want to do it. But Boy. That's gonna be tough. But Boy. That's gonna be tough. At this point. It's illegals At this point. It's illegals that are already set.

01:02:31,130	That's that are already set. That's what we have jurisdiction over what we have jurisdiction over now. OK? I mean you could talk now. OK? I mean you could talk about another. I know well, and about another. I know well, and we could talk about. I mean, we could talk about.

01:02:43,210	I mean, you could Just Talk about if you could Just Talk about if other people want to join it or other people want to join it or not. I think you're going to not. I think you're going to probably Find that you aren't probably Find that you aren't going to get like everybody all going to get like everybody all willing to do it right now

01:02:56,960	willing to do it right now without because it feels like without because it feels like there's a lot of tension in there's a lot of tension in misty waters. Feels that way. misty waters. Feels that way. I'd say, I'm thinking so. I I'd say, I'm thinking so.

01:03:08,240	I think that might be part of the think that might be part of the problem too? Understatement. Um problem too? Understatement. Um Hm? Comm. Johnson. I agree if Hm? Comm. Johnson. I agree if we look at a Neighborhood wide we look at a Neighborhood wide approach and it was uniform and approach and it was uniform and everyone said Yeah.

01:03:20,450	Let's do everyone said Yeah. Let's do this. I think that's one thing, this. I think that's one thing, But if you look at it, the But if you look at it, the whole development and there's whole development and there's Two dozen missing teeth in this Two dozen missing teeth in this PD amendment. It feels strange.

01:03:31,060	PD amendment. It feels strange. Um It's hard to, I. Guess Um It's hard to, I. Guess support just a A really small support just a A really small one. Even though a lot of what one. Even though a lot of what we've talked about in these we've talked about in these individual lots I.

01:03:44,140	I wouldn't individual lots I. I wouldn't have any issue like 34 and 35. have any issue like 34 and 35. Seems to make sense to extend Seems to make sense to extend that right? Reconciling some that right? Reconciling some issue that that, uh like on lot issue that that, uh like on lot 33.

01:03:56,010	It doesn't bother me all 33. It doesn't bother me all that much. But Especially when that much. But Especially when there's such a contentious there's such a contentious piece. Um In, the two neighbors. piece. Um In, the two neighbors.

01:04:10,030	It's It's um Seems like it's It's It's um Seems like it's it's really forcing it right it's really forcing it right now, when it's uh It would be a now, when it's uh It would be a hard thing for me to support hard thing for me to support right now. I know it. One of right now. I know it. One of the things Go ahead. Comm.

01:04:19,170	ben, the things Go ahead. Comm. ben, I probably have more than one I probably have more than one other thing, but I think one of other thing, but I think one of the things I I mentioned before the things I I mentioned before in the past that In, burly

01:04:26,310	in the past that In, burly county, with the exception of county, with the exception of Us having a real dilapidated Us having a real dilapidated property or something that was property or something that was a health risk. Or a. You know, a health risk. Or a. You know, a A Justifiable tear down.

01:04:38,190	We a A Justifiable tear down. We don't tear building down. We. don't tear building down. We. Don't terror houses down in in Don't terror houses down in in burly county. I mean I can burly county.

01:04:47,470	I mean I can understand making adjustments, understand making adjustments, You know with the one case with You know with the one case with the foundation that was 6 ft the foundation that was 6 ft over or something, but I think over or something, but I think a solution that says tear the a solution that says tear the house down is an extreme house down is an extreme measure. That.

01:04:57,740	I have a hard measure. That. I have a hard time believing that a court time believing that a court would even Say that I don't you would even Say that I don't you know. It's never happened in my know. It's never happened in my observation in the time that observation in the time that I've been a Comm., anyway.

01:05:09,760	I I I've been a Comm., anyway. I I know that doesn't make the The know that doesn't make the The applicants feel any better Give applicants feel any better Give them any, you know sense them any, you know sense because I've obviously I'm not because I've obviously I'm not a judge, and I have no control

01:05:17,230	a judge, and I have no control over what My preference would over what My preference would be To. Ask the judge if it was be To.

01:05:28,570	Ask the judge if it was possible to Hang on a little possible to Hang on a little bit so that folks can kind of bit so that folks can kind of work these things out within work these things out within their neighborhood. Because. their neighborhood. Because. That's that's really where the That's that's really where the rubber hits the road there. So rubber hits the road there.

01:05:36,780	So what's going on in the what's going on in the neighborhood? You know we don't neighborhood? You know we don't live there. Um I don't I don't live there. Um I don't I don't see an easy path here. I agree see an easy path here. I agree There's not an easy path on There's not an easy path on this. Um some of my concerns.

01:05:56,540	I this. Um some of my concerns. I I. I feel for everybody that's I. I feel for everybody that's involved and I feel for the involved and I feel for the whole community up there in the whole community up there in the tension that's going on, and tension that's going on, and people have invested their life

01:06:04,810	people have invested their life savings and their And. What savings and their And. What concerns me is If. We take concerns me is If. We take action to make changes to the action to make changes to the PUD. What. Unintended PUD. What.

01:06:19,830	Unintended consequences are there For the consequences are there For the people that aren't here people that aren't here speaking today that live up in speaking today that live up in that area that have invested that area that have invested their life savings up there on their life savings up there on a hot on a whole in the bay and

01:06:28,700	a hot on a whole in the bay and now The rules change and it now The rules change and it affects what they thought they affects what they thought they had purchased in the first had purchased in the first place, so it's the unintended place, so it's the unintended consequences of our actions.

01:06:39,540	consequences of our actions. That really concerns me to make That really concerns me to make changes at this time. I would changes at this time. I would love to see where the community love to see where the community Works together to come to a Works together to come to a solution. But I'll. Be Honest.

01:06:50,390	solution. But I'll. Be Honest. I don't see that It's gonna I don't see that It's gonna happen because it it seems like happen because it it seems like it's been attempted for Four it's been attempted for Four years. And. There hasn't been years. And. There hasn't been one yet. Um And.

01:07:02,830	It may be a one yet. Um And. It may be a situation that the courts do situation that the courts do have to resolve. Might be the have to resolve. Might be the best place. Mr Michelle. best place. Mr Michelle. Because I. I have a comfort Because I.

01:07:14,280	I have a comfort level of of whatever decisions level of of whatever decisions made here at the table just made here at the table just applies to these applicants. So. applies to these applicants. So.

01:07:21,350	I mean you might give you I mean you might give you across the bay or it could be across the bay or it could be the next cul de sac over and the next cul de sac over and and really the rules that are and really the rules that are being considered here for a being considered here for a change to the PUD don't really change to the PUD don't really affect them at all at this affect them at all at this point in time, so I feel

01:07:28,730	point in time, so I feel comfortable with the scope of comfortable with the scope of what this decision is really is what this decision is really is limited to that that box of the limited to that that box of the applicants, at least at this applicants, at least at this point in time.

01:07:39,040	Um so you said, point in time. Um so you said, I just wanna share Share that I just wanna share Share that piece with it, I. I think a lot piece with it, I. I think a lot of this challenges. Um over of this challenges. Um over time.

01:07:45,780	I mean depending on what time. I mean depending on what survey or which surveying firm, survey or which surveying firm, which builder which home buyer? which builder which home buyer? I mean There's lots of I mean There's lots of different people come into it different people come into it with their different pieces.

01:07:53,920	Um, with their different pieces. Um, and it could be the same and it could be the same surveyor in 2006 compared to surveyor in 2006 compared to 2010 that either shows or 2010 that either shows or doesn't show the Lomar line doesn't show the Lomar line from either the 2005 version of

01:08:02,130	from either the 2005 version of the 2006 version or both of the 2006 version or both of those with or without showing those with or without showing the house on it all of those the house on it all of those lot exhibits that have existed lot exhibits that have existed that that have created All that

01:08:10,270	that that have created All that have been a part of these have been a part of these processes have varied over that processes have varied over that time, too. So. There's a lot of time, too. So. There's a lot of confusion out there. And so I confusion out there.

01:08:18,810	And so I understand how we got into this? understand how we got into this? Predicament is because no one Predicament is because no one entity really was able to entity really was able to provide. This is the the path. provide. This is the the path. Sometimes. It was clear if it Sometimes.

01:08:29,760	It was clear if it was shown on that that slot was shown on that that slot exhibit, But. Obviously, exhibit, But. Obviously, there's a a fair number of them there's a a fair number of them up to 18 out here, potentially up to 18 out here, potentially that it wasn't very clear and that it wasn't very clear and they and they didn't know that

01:08:37,500	they and they didn't know that information or or or maybe they information or or or maybe they knew it and just didn't care knew it and just didn't care about it. But. This decision about it. But.

01:08:46,240	This decision does give this board an does give this board an opportunity to at least provide opportunity to at least provide some clarity here. Whether or some clarity here. Whether or not, That's what we want to do. not, That's what we want to do. I think that's another I think that's another discussion. But. It is an discussion. But.

01:08:52,180	It is an opportunity for us to provide opportunity for us to provide assurances that That would that assurances that That would that how it was built? Under the how it was built? Under the provisions that FEMA and the provisions that FEMA and the city and the builder provided city and the builder provided and Was, according to I guess

01:09:04,720	and Was, according to I guess what was appropriate at the what was appropriate at the time anyway? Thank you. Comm. time anyway? Thank you. Comm. of the CO, uh comments. of the CO, uh comments. Discussion. How about the Discussion. How about the commissioners that are remote commissioners that are remote this evening. My.

01:09:23,540	My comments this evening. My. My comments are that you know, we're we're are that you know, we're we're dealing with a situation. dealing with a situation. That's after the fact which is That's after the fact which is always difficult, Um And. always difficult, Um And.

01:09:32,820	Several of us probably weren't Several of us probably weren't even at the table when some of even at the table when some of these things were brought. And these things were brought. And were asked to deal with that, were asked to deal with that, but I. Think, Um, you know one but I.

01:09:44,230	Think, Um, you know one of the difficulties in that of the difficulties in that entire development is there entire development is there isn't we? We have now a ruling isn't we? We have now a ruling from the Supreme court That from the Supreme court That says that Omar Lyon is the says that Omar Lyon is the meets and bounds line, but that

01:09:52,900	meets and bounds line, but that was not ever defined as a meets was not ever defined as a meets and bounds line. And typically and bounds line.

01:10:00,450	And typically when you look at setbacks, you when you look at setbacks, you look at a lot line or some look at a lot line or some Meets and bounds line. As your Meets and bounds line. As your setback. That is easily defined setback. That is easily defined and described. And I think and described.

01:10:13,760	And I think we're trying to get to that for we're trying to get to that for this particular set of lots I this particular set of lots I would love to see the entire would love to see the entire development. But That's a whole development. But That's a whole different discussion as we've different discussion as we've discussed in and heard about discussed in and heard about Thank you. Additional Mr.

01:10:33,210	Uh, Thank you. Additional Mr. Uh, Mr chair I, I this This is a Mr chair I, I this This is a This is a mess, and I Agree This is a mess, and I Agree with that. I I struggle to see with that.

01:10:44,820	I I struggle to see where We have a situation where where We have a situation where this Lomar line Has not been this Lomar line Has not been consistently Implemented as the consistently Implemented as the rear setback. Um, we have a rear setback.

01:11:01,710	Um, we have a situation where The drainage situation where The drainage easement has not been easement has not been consistently Used as the rear consistently Used as the rear setback, so it's pretty tough setback, so it's pretty tough to make a decision tonight to to make a decision tonight to say. What is the right path say.

01:11:13,720	What is the right path forward when there is so much forward when there is so much conflict and contention, and conflict and contention, and it's hard to know how that it's hard to know how that decision impacts the larger Um, decision impacts the larger Um, development, so it's I. It's It. development, so it's I. It's It. It's It's. It's quite a. It's It's It's. It's quite a.

01:11:34,340	It's quite a mess, and I have great quite a mess, and I have great sympathy for, um, the sympathy for, um, the homeowners out there because I homeowners out there because I To say the Lomar line is To say the Lomar line is automatically accept that I. I automatically accept that I. I Tend to disagree with that.

01:11:45,250	I'm Tend to disagree with that. I'm not an engineer. Obviously. I not an engineer. Obviously. I do work enough around these do work enough around these things. Um You know floodplains things. Um You know floodplains are redrawn. Plenty of plenty are redrawn.

01:11:57,760	Plenty of plenty of these things are redrawn of these things are redrawn over time. Um I I feel like we over time. Um I I feel like we just sat through several hours just sat through several hours of an HOA meeting and a lot And of an HOA meeting and a lot And a lawsuit all in one Through

01:12:11,910	a lawsuit all in one Through the means of a planning and the means of a planning and zoning commission. Thank you, zoning commission. Thank you, Comm. Larson. I guess I'll Comm. Larson. I guess I'll throw. I'll. Uh, weigh in on my throw. I'll.

01:12:26,260	Uh, weigh in on my comments just a little bit in, comments just a little bit in, um You know, my I wish I was um You know, my I wish I was smart enough to figure this out. smart enough to figure this out. And. Ah, I'm not There's too And. Ah, I'm not There's too many pieces. There's.

01:12:37,740	There's many pieces. There's. There's too much going on. I do feel too much going on. I do feel pain for, uh, when you have a pain for, uh, when you have a building that's in a situation building that's in a situation where you could potentially where you could potentially lose it, and I tend to agree

01:12:47,750	lose it, and I tend to agree with Comm. Bitner that it with Comm. Bitner that it probably won't happen, But probably won't happen, But there's no guarantees, but I there's no guarantees, but I will tell you that in looking will tell you that in looking at the map.

01:12:57,220	I'm, looking at at the map. I'm, looking at seven properties and, uh, five seven properties and, uh, five of them are in comp. And so I'm of them are in comp.

01:13:05,360	And so I'm trying to figure out why two of trying to figure out why two of them aren't And, uh, I, haven't them aren't And, uh, I, haven't I haven't had heard a good Let I haven't had heard a good Let me rephrase that. I haven't me rephrase that. I haven't heard an explanation that I can heard an explanation that I can understand. And. I'm a common understand. And. I'm a common Guy.

01:13:18,040	Uh, my background is, uh, Guy. Uh, my background is, uh, IT and, uh, I'm not an engineer, IT and, uh, I'm not an engineer, So. You know it. It, uh I find So. You know it. It, uh I find it interesting anyway, that it interesting anyway, that that is the case. And.

01:13:30,720	I think that is the case. And. I think that from my perspective, Um I that from my perspective, Um I would not be able to say yes to would not be able to say yes to this. I think it's something this.

01:13:38,460	I think it's something that probably needs to go to that probably needs to go to the courts and be decided there. the courts and be decided there. In my opinion. So with that, Uh, In my opinion. So with that, Uh, I think everybody's had their I think everybody's had their say this evening. Um I'm say this evening.

01:13:52,140	Um I'm looking for a motion and a looking for a motion and a second. And make emotionally second. And make emotionally Look at it after it goes to Look at it after it goes to court. I don't know if that's a court. I don't know if that's a possibility. That would be possibility. That would be preferable.

01:14:09,230	Well, everything's preferable. Well, everything's up in the air. The favorite up in the air. The favorite thing like, he says, let the thing like, he says, let the court deal deal with it. Uh, I court deal deal with it. Uh, I see Janelle coming back again. see Janelle coming back again. So chair and Comm.

01:14:22,910	, so to So chair and Comm., so to continue table it or continue continue table it or continue it to revisit it. Well, we have it to revisit it. Well, we have to make a decision at some to make a decision at some point.

01:14:30,880	I mean you do have a point. I mean you do have a question before you so you do question before you so you do have to make that decision. We have to make that decision. We can't just be as if it waits can't just be as if it waits till after court.

01:14:37,860	I believe till after court. I believe they got a hearing in September they got a hearing in September and December trials in December and December trials in December and then Looking at the case and then Looking at the case history We're going to assume history We're going to assume that's going to whatever way it

01:14:49,400	that's going to whatever way it happens. It's gonna probably go happens. It's gonna probably go up to the North Dakota Supreme up to the North Dakota Supreme court, and then it could come court, and then it could come back down. And. So you're back down. And. So you're looking at, like 18 months.

01:14:59,340	We looking at, like 18 months. We two years works. I make a two years works. I make a decision. Either way they have decision. Either way they have the opportunity to appeal to the opportunity to appeal to the city Commission. Correct. the city Commission. Correct.

01:15:08,420	Yes and then yes, but that's Yes and then yes, but that's yes. That's a faster way for yes. That's a faster way for them to if they want different them to if they want different answer. Yes. Yes. But. If we answer. Yes. Yes. But. If we continue.

01:15:18,630	We need like a Yeah continue. We need like a Yeah like a date or hover amount of like a date or hover amount of time. Personally I. I think time. Personally I. I think that if If. There wasn't this that if If.

01:15:28,710	There wasn't this big lawsuit hanging over this? big lawsuit hanging over this? I would have no no issue I would have no no issue Approving this. Um I don't feel Approving this. Um I don't feel comfortable doing that. With. comfortable doing that. With. The lawsuit hanging over this The lawsuit hanging over this project or this this project or this this application.

01:15:40,120	Um, if we were to application. Um, if we were to deny it and the applicant in deny it and the applicant in order to feel strongly that order to feel strongly that we're wrong and appeal to the we're wrong and appeal to the City Commission and the City City Commission and the City Commission felt we were on

01:15:46,730	Commission felt we were on That's Why. I'm with me. This That's Why. I'm with me. This feels like a decision that A feels like a decision that A little bit above this board at little bit above this board at this time. I have to agree.

01:15:57,640	I this time. I have to agree. I can tell you it'd be tough at can tell you it'd be tough at the county Commission. They So. the county Commission. They So. Do. You make a motion to deny Do. You make a motion to deny it.

01:16:09,350	I'll make a motion to deny it. I'll make a motion to deny I'll. Second it, OK We have a I'll. Second it, OK We have a motion to deny from Comm. motion to deny from Comm. Johnson and a second from Comm. Johnson and a second from Comm. field. Any additional field.

01:16:19,960	Any additional discussion? And I'm not seeing discussion? And I'm not seeing or hearing any with that, Sarah, or hearing any with that, Sarah, would you please call roll? would you please call roll? Comm. field. Yes Comm. Johnson? Comm. field. Yes Comm. Johnson? Yes Comm. won and yes, Comm. Yes Comm. won and yes, Comm. Larson. Yes. Comm. Lukins. Yes.

01:16:36,910	Larson. Yes. Comm. Lukins. Yes. M. No. Comm. SMS. No. Comm. M. No. Comm. SMS. No. Comm. Bitner. Yes. And share. Bitner. Yes. And share. Schwartz. Yes. The motion is Schwartz. Yes. The motion is approved. We'll move on to item approved.

01:16:57,260	We'll move on to item number six on our agenda, which number six on our agenda, which is a part of Northern Sky is a part of Northern Sky edition in all of Northern edition in all of Northern Sky's second edition first Sky's second edition first replant And Isaac is going to replant And Isaac is going to Provide us with briefing this

01:17:07,270	Provide us with briefing this evening. Isaac. You want to evening. Isaac. You want to hold up for just a moment and hold up for just a moment and let everybody Ah! Yes. Mm. let everybody Ah! Yes. Mm. Those 15 hours. They set a Those 15 hours.

01:17:45,340	They set a record getting saddles Stormed record getting saddles Stormed is that possible in a chair? is that possible in a chair? I've been on here for over 12 I've been on here for over 12 years. I think this is a record years. I think this is a record for planning and zoning. Yeah, for planning and zoning. Yeah, right and halfway done.

01:18:07,630	Uh, right and halfway done. Uh, Isaac, please proceed. Isaac, please proceed. Certainly If you would like me Certainly If you would like me to speak slowly, We can extend to speak slowly, We can extend that record even more. Uh but that record even more.

01:18:17,810	Uh but otherwise, uh, chair Schwartz otherwise, uh, chair Schwartz and commissioners are third and commissioners are third regular agenda item for this regular agenda item for this evening comes to us from Wilmot evening comes to us from Wilmot Development, LLC and well meant Development, LLC and well meant properties. LLC, who are properties.

01:18:29,850	LLC, who are requesting a approval of a requesting a approval of a zoning map amendment for lot, zoning map amendment for lot, one less than North 250 FT one less than North 250 FT Block one Northern Sky edition Block one Northern Sky edition and all of Northern Sky second and all of Northern Sky second edition First Repla. The edition First Repla. The property is located. In property is located.

01:18:42,070	In northwest, uh, Bismarck in the northwest, uh, Bismarck in the northwest quadrant of the northwest quadrant of the intersection of North intersection of North Washington Street and Ash Washington Street and Ash Cooley as shown on the screens Cooley as shown on the screens before you. The applicant is before you.

01:18:53,310	The applicant is requesting a change from the requesting a change from the existing RT residential and C a existing RT residential and C a commercial zoning as you can commercial zoning as you can see here to the CG commercial see here to the CG commercial zoning for the entire project zoning for the entire project area to expand the potential

01:19:04,390	area to expand the potential commercial uses to be available commercial uses to be available for future development, the for future development, the project area as show. Is project area as show.

01:19:15,130	Is surrounded by a variety of surrounded by a variety of different zoning districts, different zoning districts, including P public PUD, RT, including P public PUD, RT, Residential and C, a commercial Residential and C, a commercial and just some of the specific and just some of the specific adjacent land uses include adjacent land uses include offices, churches, medical offices, churches, medical facilities and different forms facilities and different forms of residential development and

01:19:26,940	of residential development and some undeveloped, uh, un some undeveloped, uh, un annexed land to the east across annexed land to the east across North Washington Street as well. North Washington Street as well.

01:19:38,620	The area is identified The area is identified primarily as community mixed primarily as community mixed use as shown on the screen now, use as shown on the screen now, uh in the future land use plan uh in the future land use plan with one small area kind of in with one small area kind of in the northeast of the project the northeast of the project area being neighborhood mixed area being neighborhood mixed use and these areas in the

01:19:48,230	use and these areas in the future land use plan are both future land use plan are both described as a mixture of described as a mixture of housing and commercial or housing and commercial or employment opportunities with employment opportunities with the former community mix use the former community mix use being a little more focused on

01:20:00,240	being a little more focused on commercial and employment commercial and employment opportunities and a little less opportunities and a little less on And vice versa for on And vice versa for neighborhood mixed use. neighborhood mixed use.

01:20:10,590	Although no specific Although no specific development is being proposed development is being proposed at this time with this request, at this time with this request, but the CG commercial zoning but the CG commercial zoning district would Commonly contain district would Commonly contain uses that would fit this uses that would fit this general description of either general description of either community Mixed use or community Mixed use or neighborhood mixed Use one note.

01:20:21,400	neighborhood mixed Use one note. As. You can kind of see here on As. You can kind of see here on the screen. The dashed lines the screen. The dashed lines indicate the current corporate indicate the current corporate limits of the city. So, the limits of the city.

01:20:31,540	So, the northeast portion of, uh, the northeast portion of, uh, the project area that neighborhood project area that neighborhood mix use portion is currently mix use portion is currently within city limits. And then within city limits. And then the rest of the project area. the rest of the project area. Specifically the parcels of Specifically the parcels of Northern Sky second edition.

01:20:40,750	Northern Sky second edition. First repot are currently not First repot are currently not in corporate limits. But the in corporate limits. But the rights of There of Northern Sky rights of There of Northern Sky Drive and Wilkinson Place are Drive and Wilkinson Place are within city limits.

01:20:51,360	Uh, there within city limits. Uh, there is a development agreement in is a development agreement in place that states the UN place that states the UN annexed parcels. Those being annexed parcels.

01:21:01,010	Those being the parcels of northern Sky the parcels of northern Sky Second Edition, uh, shall be Second Edition, uh, shall be annexed by the landowners no annexed by the landowners no later than February 25th 2030, later than February 25th 2030, Although. The. Landowners can Although. The. Landowners can also request annexation sooner also request annexation sooner if desired. The public was if desired.

01:21:13,250	The public was notified of this request via notified of this request via publications in the Bismarck publications in the Bismarck Tribune on June, 14th and 21st Tribune on June, 14th and 21st and 38 Letters were mailed to and 38 Letters were mailed to nearby properties on June 14th nearby properties on June 14th to my knowledge staff has not to my knowledge staff has not received any written public

01:21:23,260	received any written public comments prior to this meeting. comments prior to this meeting. And as a cumulative result of And as a cumulative result of all the findings contained in all the findings contained in the staff reports in front of the staff reports in front of you.

01:21:30,530	City of Bismarck staff you. City of Bismarck staff find that the zoning map find that the zoning map amendment would not adversely amendment would not adversely impact public health safety and impact public health safety and general welfare and that it is general welfare and that it is consistent with the consistent with the comprehensive Plan Bismarck

01:21:40,110	comprehensive Plan Bismarck code of ordinances and relevant code of ordinances and relevant state law. Therefore, staff state law. Therefore, staff recommends approval of the recommends approval of the zoning map amendment from the zoning map amendment from the RT residential district and C, RT residential district and C, a commercial district to the CG

01:21:51,490	a commercial district to the CG commercial district on lot, one commercial district on lot, one less than North 250 FT Block less than North 250 FT Block one. Sky edition and all of one. Sky edition and all of Northern Sky second edition Northern Sky second edition First Repla. Does. The First Repla. Does. The commission.

01:22:01,970	Have any questions commission. Have any questions for me at this time for me at this time commissioner's questions for commissioner's questions for Isaac. Comm. Shell. Just a Isaac. Comm. Shell. Just a quick one. Isaac. Um, was there quick one. Isaac.

01:22:12,710	Um, was there any discussions on conditional any discussions on conditional CGs or anything along those CGs or anything along those lines or the staff feel lines or the staff feel comfortable or I obviously step comfortable or I obviously step it was comfortable with a full it was comfortable with a full blown CG. But. Maybe. Was there blown CG. But. Maybe.

01:22:20,250	Was there any thoughts or on any any thoughts or on any restrictions? There. There was restrictions? There. There was some discussion early on in the some discussion early on in the review process, but staff was review process, but staff was comfortable with the full CG on, comfortable with the full CG on, uh, this project area uh, this project area specifically, so staff has no

01:22:31,660	specifically, so staff has no concerns in that regard. concerns in that regard. Commissioners. Any other Commissioners. Any other questions? Isaac. Thank you questions? Isaac. Thank you thank you with that. I'm going thank you with that. I'm going to open up the public hearing to open up the public hearing for this agenda item.

01:22:43,340	Is there for this agenda item. Is there anyone that would care to step anyone that would care to step to the podium. Uh, land and to the podium. Uh, land and stayed. Thank you church words? stayed. Thank you church words? Yes. Item number six. We are Yes. Item number six. We are halfway through the agenda.

01:22:55,820	You halfway through the agenda. You can make it, I think Yeah, just can make it, I think Yeah, just to add to add a couple of items to add to add a couple of items to to what Isaac Isaac it to to what Isaac Isaac it presented, Uh, this area was

01:23:04,500	presented, Uh, this area was probably a little bit under probably a little bit under zone when it first came through zone when it first came through with the C A and RT, with the C A and RT, considering that it's really at considering that it's really at an intersection of Washington

01:23:11,400	an intersection of Washington 43rd. It's a two arterial roads. 43rd. It's a two arterial roads. Commercial zoning seems to make Commercial zoning seems to make sense in this area. Um, as you sense in this area.

01:23:19,310	Um, as you mentioned as well, there is an mentioned as well, there is an annexation agreement in process annexation agreement in process right now, so at some point the right now, so at some point the these lots will be coming to these lots will be coming to the theater regardless of what the theater regardless of what happens here, but hopefully happens here, but hopefully with the zoning change, Uh,

01:23:26,180	with the zoning change, Uh, that gives a lot more that gives a lot more opportunities for commercial opportunities for commercial growth here. In those those growth here. In those those lots can come into To the city lots can come into To the city a little bit sooner.

01:23:32,790	Um, but a little bit sooner. Um, but here for any questions if you here for any questions if you have them commissioners, have them commissioners, questions for Lando. No. Thank questions for Lando. No. Thank you. Thank you. Without the you. Thank you.

01:23:44,640	Without the podiums open for others that podiums open for others that would care to address this would care to address this agenda item and I'm not seeing agenda item and I'm not seeing or hearing any so I'm going to or hearing any so I'm going to close the public hearing Isaac close the public hearing Isaac any additional comments? No any additional comments? No additional comments. All, right.

01:23:54,550	additional comments. All, right. Thank you with that Comm. the Thank you with that Comm. the request? Is Missing my papers request? Is Missing my papers here. Motion to approve Thank here. Motion to approve Thank you Comm. Bitner motion to you Comm. Bitner motion to approve 2nd 2nd from Comm. approve 2nd 2nd from Comm.

01:24:14,170	Johnson, uh, without any Johnson, uh, without any discussion. And. I'm not seeing discussion. And. I'm not seeing or hearing any Sarah, would you or hearing any Sarah, would you please call roll? Comm. fields. please call roll? Comm. fields. Yes Comm. Johnson? Yes, Comm.. Yes Comm. Johnson? Yes, Comm.. Yes. Mr Larson. Yes, Comm.

01:24:29,050	Yes. Mr Larson. Yes, Comm. Bittner. Mr Lukins. Yes, yes, Bittner. Mr Lukins. Yes, yes, Comm. won and yes, in shorts? Comm. won and yes, in shorts? Yes, motion is approved. Where Yes, motion is approved. Where did I put my agenda Too much did I put my agenda Too much paper. All right.

01:24:50,670	We're on to paper. All right. We're on to item number seven in our item number seven in our regular agenda, which is Apple regular agenda, which is Apple Creek farm, especially use Creek farm, especially use permit. And I believe Jenny is permit. And I believe Jenny is going to brief us on this.

01:25:02,910	going to brief us on this. Thank you? Yes. Let's do it Thank you? Yes. Let's do it shorts Comm. Donald and Renee shorts Comm. Donald and Renee Zel are requesting approval of Zel are requesting approval of a special use permit for a a special use permit for a major agriculture recreation

01:25:10,560	major agriculture recreation use on their property at 7 use on their property at 7 50/80 Street Southeast. The 50/80 Street Southeast. The property is located east of property is located east of Bismarck in the northwest Bismarck in the northwest quadrant of the intersection of quadrant of the intersection of Apple Creek Road and 80th

01:25:19,560	Apple Creek Road and 80th Street Southeast and consists Street Southeast and consists of 39.19 acres You'll remember, of 39.19 acres You'll remember, but in a from last meeting in but in a from last meeting in agriculture, Recreation use is agriculture, Recreation use is a agriculture related use that a agriculture related use that combines agriculture production

01:25:30,170	combines agriculture production with commercial recreation. with commercial recreation. That are ancillary to the That are ancillary to the primary agricultural use. Such primary agricultural use. Such uses include but are not uses include but are not limited to the education limited to the education related events and tours. A related events and tours.

01:25:41,720	A Celebration, a ceremony wedding Celebration, a ceremony wedding reception, corporate function, reception, corporate function, you pick Produce Christmas tree you pick Produce Christmas tree farm, pumpkin patches, corn, farm, pumpkin patches, corn, maize and hay ride for someone maize and hay ride for someone other than the property owner other than the property owner criteria for approval of a

01:25:51,460	criteria for approval of a major agriculture. Recreation major agriculture. Recreation use are outlined in your staff use are outlined in your staff report, according to the report, according to the information submitted by the information submitted by the applicant, All criteria have applicant, All criteria have been met or will be met prior

01:25:59,940	been met or will be met prior to commencing operations. The to commencing operations. The property Zoned agriculture is property Zoned agriculture is at least 35 acres in size and at least 35 acres in size and located outside the urban located outside the urban service area boundary. The service area boundary.

01:26:08,610	The applicant has indicated that applicant has indicated that events will occur no more than events will occur no more than 30 days per calendar year and 30 days per calendar year and that they will meet that they will meet requirements for the noise requirements for the noise outlined in Chapter 810 of the

01:26:15,720	outlined in Chapter 810 of the city code of Ordinances and city code of Ordinances and that lighting for events will that lighting for events will be designed to mitigate be designed to mitigate off-site impacts. Parking and off-site impacts.

01:26:24,430	Parking and emergency access is provided on emergency access is provided on the property access to the site the property access to the site would be from 80th Street would be from 80th Street Southeast, which is a paved Southeast, which is a paved street the public has been street the public has been notified of this request. The notified of this request.

01:26:31,700	The notice was published in Tribune notice was published in Tribune on June, 14th and 21st and 60 on June, 14th and 21st and 60 letters were mailed to the letters were mailed to the owners of nearby properties on owners of nearby properties on June 14th. We have received one June 14th. We have received one comment.

01:26:38,840	It was delivered to comment. It was delivered to you prior to this evening's you prior to this evening's meeting. This request was meeting. This request was evaluated according to evaluated according to standards contained within our standards contained within our comprehensive plan code of comprehensive plan code of ordinances and relative. State ordinances and relative.

01:26:48,650	State Law staff recommends approval Law staff recommends approval of the special use permit for of the special use permit for the major agriculture, the major agriculture, recreation use at 830th Street recreation use at 830th Street Southeast legally described as Southeast legally described as part of the southeast Quarter part of the southeast Quarter of Section, five Apple Creek

01:26:58,260	of Section, five Apple Creek Township. Do, You have any Township. Do, You have any questions questions for Jenny? questions questions for Jenny? Not hearing or seeing any Jenny. Not hearing or seeing any Jenny. Thank you. With that I'm going Thank you.

01:27:09,140	With that I'm going to open up the public hearing to open up the public hearing for this agenda item. And would for this agenda item. And would first of all would either the first of all would either the The requester. Like to speak to The requester. Like to speak to it. And.

01:27:24,290	Then you can take your it. And. Then you can take your turn. Good evening. Um I'm turn. Good evening. Um I'm Renee Zendel and, um for the Renee Zendel and, um for the agriculture, Major, Um, the agriculture, Major, Um, the letter that went out did give letter that went out did give the maximum number of, um

01:27:40,170	the maximum number of, um events and people. Um, Who. events and people. Um, Who. Would. That would be, um Would. That would be, um allowed. Um, we plan to have allowed. Um, we plan to have maybe four Per year. Um, not maybe four Per year.

01:27:53,690	Um, not the 30 at this point, and, um the 30 at this point, and, um We are not planning to have any We are not planning to have any weddings, Um, celebrations. weddings, Um, celebrations. Whatever was was listed on Whatever was was listed on there. Um, we do just plan to there.

01:28:05,200	Um, we do just plan to have agriculture based Um, have agriculture based Um, gatherings at this point. Any gatherings at this point. Any questions? Questions for Renee. questions? Questions for Renee. Not seeing or hearing any. Not seeing or hearing any.

01:28:19,440	Thank you? We we, um we did Thank you? We we, um we did have some friends and family have some friends and family weddings and we found out that weddings and we found out that DJ S are far too loud. And so DJ S are far too loud.

01:28:27,280	And so that's one of the reasons we that's one of the reasons we just don't don't want to, um, just don't don't want to, um, have weddings and just the have weddings and just the number of people unknown people number of people unknown people that are coming to the property. that are coming to the property. Very good. Thank you. Now. The Very good. Thank you. Now. The podium is open.

01:28:47,040	Uh, mary S, podium is open. Uh, mary S, Apple Creek Township. I don't Apple Creek Township. I don't think it's been a while, Um think it's been a while, Um Chair Commission. I am gonna Chair Commission. I am gonna make a request. Can. I Address, make a request. Can.

01:28:59,980	I Address, number seven and eight at the number seven and eight at the same time, cause it will be the same time, cause it will be the same thing. It is the same same thing. It is the same property. So if I could just do property.

01:29:06,860	So if I could just do one address, you can speak to one address, you can speak to both of them. And, then yes, at both of them. And, then yes, at one time, OK? Um, we did get I one time, OK? Um, we did get I do have the packet. Um Apple do have the packet.

01:29:18,000	Um Apple Creek Township ship meets One Creek Township ship meets One Monday a month. I know it is Monday a month. I know it is our township. But is your ETA our township. But is your ETA So you guys have the overriding So you guys have the overriding Decision on this.

01:29:33,420	Um I don't Decision on this. Um I don't foresee an issue, but I cannot foresee an issue, but I cannot speak on the other half of the speak on the other half of the members because we are only a members because we are only a three member group. That run three member group.

01:29:42,090	That run our township and I'm not our township and I'm not allowed to speak to them. allowed to speak to them. Except for open meetings or Except for open meetings or it's a quorum. So we will not it's a quorum. So we will not We will vote on the packet. I We will vote on the packet. I believe it is on the eighth.

01:29:53,570	I believe it is on the eighth. I believe that's a Monday, the believe that's a Monday, the second Monday of July. And. It second Monday of July. And. It will be here if our will be here if our recommendations And As of now. recommendations And As of now. I do not see an issue.

01:30:07,150	You know I do not see an issue. You know how I feel on issue number four. how I feel on issue number four. With home businesses. So That's With home businesses. So That's a personal I cannot speak for a personal I cannot speak for the whole township. Cause. The the whole township. Cause.

01:30:20,330	The other two members have to vote other two members have to vote and our votes are only a and our votes are only a recommendation. And by a way, recommendation. And by a way, my kids love your alpacas. So my kids love your alpacas.

01:30:33,210	So if there are any questions, we if there are any questions, we have nothing to report until have nothing to report until the ninth when we Dropping hack the ninth when we Dropping hack at all OK? That. Sounds. Good. at all OK? That. Sounds. Good.

01:30:51,100	Thank you, Monty? Uh, Janelle, Thank you, Monty? Uh, Janelle, does that pose a problem at all? does that pose a problem at all? Um, chair and commissioners is Um, chair and commissioners is the recommendation. I mean they the recommendation. I mean they could Cho chosen to do a could Cho chosen to do a special meeting if they wanted special meeting if they wanted to to get it in time. As long to to get it in time.

01:31:00,310	As long as we gave them the notice as we gave them the notice appropriately for the amount of appropriately for the amount of time I don't think we have an time I don't think we have an issue with it so we can go issue with it so we can go ahead and act. You can.

01:31:06,840	All ahead and act. You can. All right. Thank you. All right, right. Thank you. All right, with, um, that are there others with, um, that are there others that would care to step to the that would care to step to the podium and address this agenda podium and address this agenda item.

01:31:16,320	And I'm not seeing or item. And I'm not seeing or hearing any so with that I'm hearing any so with that I'm going to close the public going to close the public hearing Jenny any final hearing Jenny any final comments? All right. Thank you comments? All right.

01:31:33,540	Thank you with that commissioners? We with that commissioners? We your wishes motion to approve your wishes motion to approve motion to approve by mister by motion to approve by mister by Comm. Organ second by Comm. Comm. Organ second by Comm. Bitner Any discussion Comm. Bitner Any discussion Comm.

01:31:44,620	shell Maybe just like to thank shell Maybe just like to thank Renee for noting the the Renee for noting the the wedding and the DJ S because wedding and the DJ S because one of the only public comment one of the only public comment that we had was referring to that we had was referring to the loud noises. That was the loud noises. That was probably what you just said.

01:31:51,360	probably what you just said. You're not going to do anymore, You're not going to do anymore, So. I appreciate you noting So. I appreciate you noting that for the record, thank you. that for the record, thank you. Thank you Comm. shell. Other Thank you Comm. shell. Other comments. If not Sarah.

01:32:01,830	Please comments. If not Sarah. Please call the roll. Mr Morgan. Yes. call the roll. Mr Morgan. Yes. Comm. Field? Yes. Comm. Johnson? Comm. Field? Yes. Comm. Johnson? Yes. Comm. Bitner. Yes, Comm. Yes. Comm. Bitner. Yes, Comm. Larson. Yes, Comm. Lukins. Yes, Larson. Yes, Comm. Lukins. Yes, Yes, Comm. Schmitz. Yes.

01:32:22,990	Sure Yes, Comm. Schmitz. Yes. Sure Schwartz. Yes motion is Schwartz. Yes motion is approved. We'll move on to Item approved. We'll move on to Item eight in our regular agenda. eight in our regular agenda.

01:32:35,530	Apple Creek Cottage again Apple Creek Cottage again Special use permit for an Special use permit for an accessory building or accessory accessory building or accessory dwelling unit. Jenny. Please dwelling unit. Jenny. Please provide us with report Schwartz provide us with report Schwartz Commissioners Don and Renee Commissioners Don and Renee Zanel are also requesting Zanel are also requesting approval of a special use approval of a special use permit for an accessory

01:32:43,940	permit for an accessory dwelling unit on their property dwelling unit on their property at 7 50/80 Street, South east. at 7 50/80 Street, South east. Um, an accessory dwelling unit Um, an accessory dwelling unit is Separate and complete is Separate and complete dwelling unit established in dwelling unit established in conjunction with an ancillary

01:32:54,490	conjunction with an ancillary to a principal, single family to a principal, single family dwelling unit criteria for dwelling unit criteria for approval of an accessory. Uh, approval of an accessory. Uh, accessory dwelling unit are accessory dwelling unit are outlined in the staff report. outlined in the staff report.

01:33:05,460	The proposed unit would be The proposed unit would be located within an existing 750 located within an existing 750 square foot accessory building square foot accessory building and includes one bedroom and and includes one bedroom and office bathroom, living room office bathroom, living room and kitchen. The Accessory and kitchen.

01:33:14,170	The Accessory building has been located on building has been located on the property since probably the property since probably around 1960. It does not meet around 1960. It does not meet the front yard setback for an the front yard setback for an agriculture zoning district, agriculture zoning district, which is 100.

01:33:23,920	75 ft, um from which is 100. 75 ft, um from 80th Street Southeast, which is 80th Street Southeast, which is classified as an arterial road. classified as an arterial road. However. The building is However.

01:33:32,190	The building is considered a legal, non considered a legal, non conforming use and may remain conforming use and may remain in place in accordance with our in place in accordance with our zoning ordinance specifically zoning ordinance specifically our non conforming use section our non conforming use section the public was notified of this the public was notified of this request, and the Tribune was request, and the Tribune was noticed on June 14th and tw

01:33:42,200	noticed on June 14th and tw 21st and 60 letters were 21st and 60 letters were neighbor were mailed to neighbor were mailed to property owners on June 14th. property owners on June 14th. We have not received specific We have not received specific comments for this special use comments for this special use for quest.

01:33:51,610	Um Staff recommends for quest. Um Staff recommends approval of the special use approval of the special use permit for the accessory permit for the accessory dwelling unit at 7 50/80 Street dwelling unit at 7 50/80 Street southeast legally described as southeast legally described as part of the southeast Quarter part of the southeast Quarter of Section five Apple Creek

01:33:59,950	of Section five Apple Creek Township. Do you have questions? Township. Do you have questions? Commissioner's questions. I'm Commissioner's questions. I'm not seeing or hearing any. not seeing or hearing any. Thank you. With that I'm gonna Thank you.

01:34:13,100	With that I'm gonna open up the public hearing on open up the public hearing on this particular agenda item and this particular agenda item and Renee, it looks like you're Renee, it looks like you're going to come up and speak to going to come up and speak to us. I was just wondering if you us. I was just wondering if you have any questions for me. Any have any questions for me. Any questions for Renee? And.

01:34:21,240	We questions for Renee? And. We use the house as an air BNB. Mm. use the house as an air BNB. Mm. So Great questions. I was So Great questions. I was hoping I didn't have to make hoping I didn't have to make any comments. All. Right. Thank any comments. All. Right. Thank you, Renee. Anybody.

01:34:36,590	The podium you, Renee. Anybody. The podium is open for others that would is open for others that would care to address and I'm not care to address and I'm not seeing or hearing any So with seeing or hearing any So with that I'm going to close the that I'm going to close the public hearing. Uh, Jenny.

01:34:45,860	Any public hearing. Uh, Jenny. Any Final comments. All, right. Final comments. All, right. Thank you with that Thank you with that commissioners? Yes, Commission commissioners? Yes, Commission Bener. Hasn't been there since Bener. Hasn't been there since 1960. It was it was moved in 1960. It was it was moved in there it some point.

01:35:01,440	In the there it some point. In the last 37 years. Um And we live last 37 years. Um And we live directly. We live directly directly. We live directly across the street. Um from across the street.

01:35:14,020	Um from there, and they have been doing there, and they have been doing this and there's absolutely no this and there's absolutely no problem with with what they've problem with with what they've been doing the the You know it been doing the the You know it was obvious that it's being was obvious that it's being used as an air BNB. There has used as an air BNB. There has been zero problems with it.

01:35:24,630	So been zero problems with it. So with having said that my only with having said that my only concern is that when that we concern is that when that we used to, if, if it used to be used to, if, if it used to be called T shed, it was it was

01:35:30,370	called T shed, it was it was the tax shed when Randy Frey the tax shed when Randy Frey brought it in there and and set brought it in there and and set it up and say they were running it up and say they were running horses, and it was a big horse

01:35:37,510	horses, and it was a big horse operation at the time, Anyway. operation at the time, Anyway. At that time it was just set on At that time it was just set on railroad ties and whatnot. So. railroad ties and whatnot. So.

01:35:44,260	I don't know if it's ever been I don't know if it's ever been put on a foundation and whatnot, put on a foundation and whatnot, And That would be my only And That would be my only concern as a contractor with concern as a contractor with code. I. Don't think it's a code. I.

01:35:52,600	Don't think it's a problem because it's been there, problem because it's been there, and it's You. I know others. OK, and it's You. I know others.

01:36:05,080	OK, I'm not aware of that, but I I'm not aware of that, but I know it was set on railroad know it was set on railroad ties, so That was the only ties, so That was the only current. I have, but I have no current. I have, but I have no problem with them. It's not problem with them. It's not going anywhere. I don't think going anywhere. I don't think so. It's been there a long time, so.

01:36:13,350	It's been there a long time, and it's weathered some pretty and it's weathered some pretty good storms. All right with good storms. All right with that I would entertain a motion that I would entertain a motion commissioners motion to approve. commissioners motion to approve. We have a motion to approve We have a motion to approve from Comm.

01:36:24,060	Bitner, second from from Comm. Bitner, second from Comm. Field. And. He, uh, Comm. Field. And. He, uh, additional discussion. And. I'm additional discussion. And. I'm not seeing any Sarah, please not seeing any Sarah, please call Roll Comm. field. Yes call Roll Comm. field. Yes Comm. Johnson. Yes, Mr Wang. Comm. Johnson. Yes, Mr Wang. Yes. Comm. Larson. Yes, Comm.

01:36:40,850	Yes. Comm. Larson. Yes, Comm. Lukins. Yes. Mr Show? Yes. Lukins. Yes. Mr Show? Yes. Comm. Smith. Yes Comm. Bitner. Comm. Smith. Yes Comm. Bitner. Yes and, yes, motion is Yes and, yes, motion is approved. With that Comm. I. I. approved. With that Comm. I. I.

01:36:58,660	Thank you so much for your time Thank you so much for your time and attention and all your and attention and all your great comments this evening and, great comments this evening and, uh, I will adjourn the meeting. uh, I will adjourn the meeting. Our next regular meeting is Our next regular meeting is scheduled for July. 24th.