00:00:07,270	Good evening. It’s 5:15 on. October 8th we’re in the Tom Baker room of the C County building. This will be the board of City commissioners meeting before we call a meeting in order though I believe Chaplain Carr is here to give us an invocation and lead us in the Pledge of allegiance. Thank you, Mr.

00:00:28,400	Mayor. Please join me in prayer. Heavenly Father, I want to thank you tonight for the fact that we live in the greatest nation in this world, a nation that was built upon your precepts. And so, Father, we thank you for the freedom that we have.

00:00:48,500	We thank you also, Father, for our first responders in Bismarck and the surrounding area and we ask your protection to be upon them. Every one of them, Father, and our city workers as well. God, just be with them.

00:01:02,770	I also want to thank you tonight for our commissioners and our mayor, and I lay them before For you, Father, and I ask you to bless them. Tonight I ask you to give them your wisdom in all things. I pray that, uh, tonight, God, that your hand will be upon them and your hand will be upon this meeting and that everything that would be said and done will bring glory to you and we’ll continue to make Bismarck the great city it is.

00:01:20,430	Again, Father, thank you for everyone that’s here tonight and thank you again for the privilege that we have to serve you in the name of your Son, we pray. Amen. Please stand. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

00:01:45,570	And to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, uh, also remind everyone to continue to pray for Florida and North Carolina and Tennessee and all those areas, uh, that are facing the hurricanes right now. Thank you. Right, if we can call the meeting order we call roll. Comm. Rusch Here, Comm. Zinker here, Comm.

00:02:13,330	Connelly, here, Mayor Schmitz, here. Our first item today is a proclamation. Proclamation is whereas October marks a momentous occasion as we celebrate Heartview Foundation’s 60th anniversary of providing. Substance use treatment services.

00:02:42,700	Therefore, be it resolved that I, Mike Schmidt’s mayor of the city of Bismarck, on behalf of this commission, do hereby recognize Heartview Foundation for their 60 years of service to the citizens of Bismarck. We extend our deepest gratitude to Heart Foundation for its steadfast commitment to our city and its people.

00:03:34,070	And I think I saw, do you, would you like to come and receive this now? At this point in time we have our public comment period, the public comment period is restricted to items on the consent agenda or the regular agenda that is not a public hearing. So anyone who would wish to speak, please come forward. State your name, the topic you’re speaking to us on and then sign in on the ledger sheet.

00:04:05,900	I understand it correctly, then that would be an issue involving the item number 4. consent to request a hear insufficiency of protest and resolution. Am I correct? Yes, cause that’s not a it’s not stated as a public hearing, so absolutely comment please, and I’m here to object to that, and we filed a protest and I think some of my neighbors have

00:04:24,300	done so too, and that has to do with lighting on Clydesdale Drive, and, uh, I think my letter should be in your records. We basically assert that that is an inappropriate expenditure of money. It’s not necessary. It’s a waste of her time and money. It’s a future expenditure that we’re tying up the people.

00:04:46,130	Uh, I just think it’s absolutely unnecessary and speaking with some of my neighbors, they are in agreement with me. I would also note that the way the plan is designed, it’s got a tree, a light pole right between two trees in the middle of my driveway area, which means that they’re gonna probably have to trim those or cut them out.

00:05:04,270	It ruins the beauty of that area and those trees, and I think uh we protested, we object to it, and we ask that the council reject that proposal. Uh, I know who you are. Did you state your name? Oh, I’m sorry, I’m Clark Borman, and I live in Kleinsdale Drive in Bismarck. Can you sign into police Clark.

00:05:23,830	Thank you. OK, I’ve done that. Thank you. Thank you. A mirror The first Uh, my name’s John Brocker. I have the same issue that, uh, he has on North 4th Street. Uh, we went through this 6 years ago. Um, Comm. Aspi was actually one of the people that testified against us.

00:06:10,570	Because there is no problem with lighting up there. We have, we have lampposts in our yards that are all operational that provide plenty of uh of uh of lighting. As far as the safety concern goes beyond that. Um, Over the last 6 years in our in that area, there have been 7 automobile accidents, all of them in the daytime.

00:06:33,470	And there is no other issue. I would ask that you reject this. Thank you, sir. Thank you. In this public comment for the consent to judge items or an item that is not public hearing. Mr. Mayor, uh, commissioners, uh, city staff. My name is John Simmers with Bismarck Aero Center.

00:07:42,330	Uh, the purpose of my statement is to bring to your attention several loose ends that are associated with item E4 and the consent agenda, with exceptional, uh, of Comm. Risch. Um, Each of you may recall my previous testimony regarding these matters on May 28th. Um, it’s important for me to go on record.

00:08:03,570	Uh, stating that we renew these same objections as stated during the previous meeting on May 28th. Um, 2024 regarding airport development matters and lease amendment, um, that’s on tonight’s agenda. I don’t want to go in and rehash, um, all of the items discussed on our correspondenced in May 24th and the commission meeting on May 28th.

00:08:27,570	Uh, but I do want to bring to your attention several unresolved issues still related to that issue, um, still related to this agenda item. Uh, we still do not have accurate information, um, on how this will impact access to our parking and access to our current facility.

00:08:51,730	Um, Airport officials communicated to our organization on June 27th, that we would have continued meetings to discuss what the plan is to date we have not heard any updates since June 27th regarding this plan. And frankly how the development’s going to directly impact our Our, um, parking and access to our business, uh, front.

00:09:15,400	So, uh, we’re currently having ongoing issues with ramp access to our building and restricted parking due to the construction project that’s already, Um Uh, kind of in play and, um, uh, we, we’re still looking for some mitigation and how these issues are going to be resolved going forward, so.

00:09:37,030	Um, the development agreement and then the second, the second thing I want to bring to your attention, the development agreement that’s included, um, with executive air taxi included as enclosure one states a completion date of October 31, 2025. You know, I get this is forward development for the airport. And, um, but it’s, you know, based on the development agreement, the completion date is set for October 31st, 2025. Through previous planning meetings, it’s been communicated.

00:10:00,930	This is a two-year project, um, and I just am concerned that the completion date of October 31 is, is realistic. And why that’s important, um, we’re concerned that this project will be extended without a definitive completion date.

00:10:26,030	And we’ll have ongoing impacts relating to our business operations resulting from construction mass, dust, debris, noise pollution, uh, continued building access issues, parking issues, and things that will differ or deter customers from accessing our facility. So I just want to bring to your attention. Those items still have not been The the mitigation process has not been communicated to us. And um, I, I, I believe that that’s really important here to, to go on the record.

00:10:42,670	So, uh, as a result, we have to we have to object to this, uh, lease, um, that’s on the agenda until our concerns have been addressed. Um, I, I do believe that this item has been mishandled from a communication and planning standpoint. And we’re just asking for better communication and being a part of it.

00:11:05,670	Um, our organization, Bismarck Aero Center, um, has a great track record of collaborating with airport officials. Um, we’ve exercised full cooperation regarding operational requirements at the airport. Our projects are well planned, and we meet our development obligations. So we’re here just to insist that all airport development processes are held to the same standards of collaboration, um, meeting the requirements of the.

00:11:30,170	Development agreement and we just asked the airport to reciprocate good collaboration and good communication to us, um, as one of the city’s largest tenants at the airport.

00:11:49,370	So, um, we’re going to continue to explore our options and how to navigate these challenges within what’s in with what’s in our control, um, and, um, you know, we’re continuing to investigate all those options, visited with several of you on this matter, uh, over the last several months. And I just appreciate your continued attention to make sure that this is You know, planned out and communicated appropriately. So That’s what I have. Thank you. Any questions? Go ahead, Comm. Risch.

00:12:08,630	I guess what’s your request tonight? Do you want us to deny it till you get to speak with the airport authority more? Well, you, you know, we’re. Yeah, we wanna know what the plan is this, you know, if you look at the development, it directly impacts access to our facility, parking, all that’s gonna be displaced. Those loose ends have not been closed with us.

00:12:27,230	And so we, we’re asking you to deny that tonight until the airport. Follows through on their commitments. I’m pretty easy to get along with. Just do what you say you’re gonna do, and that’s kind of the rub here. The follow through hasn’t happened. make sure that Respond to your question. Comm. Risch. OK.

00:13:00,830	OK OK OK, any other questions? Thank you, thank you. And this is public comment period. Anyone who wish to speak to a consent item. Or non-public hearing item on the regular agenda. Please come forward. A second call for public comment. A 3rd and final call for public comment. Public comment period is now closed.

00:13:30,930	Before I ask commissioners what your wishes are on the consent agenda, I do request that item. Uh, to get the right. 4 be pulled separate because I must not act on that one. I have a potential conflict of interest. E4, the one that. was just talked about. So I, I would, I’m requesting, I guess a motion to do that.

00:13:56,430	I can make the motion if I can have a second to pull that from the consent. OK. So with the rest of with regard to the rest of the consent agenda of the consent agenda minus um item E4 I move approval, second. Is there any discussion, the only other question I have, Mr.

00:14:15,570	Mayor and commissioners was item 4, the street light. I’ve received an email from our city engineer today and he was talking about that that’s not on consent you’re correct. OK. OK, we’re just we’ll that’s not on consent you’re correct. OK. OK, we’re just we’ll All right, so. Any other discussion? If not, we’ll call roll. Comm. Zenker. Yes, Comm.

00:14:39,730	Connelly, yes, Comm. Risch, Mayor Schmitz, yes. And now I’ll ask someone to I’m gonna step aside, so Comm. Zenker, could you chair for the, for the rest of the three of us? That’s the apple’s got to fall a little farther tonight. Uh, so. Impromptu, someone should have coached me up on how to do this, maybe.

00:15:02,670	That’s a great, we’re all good. Um, so at the table, the three of us, we have item E4. Do we have any um questions or discussions. On that item that we need to have staff answer. Wisher Connelly.

00:15:37,330	Greg, could you come out? I’m sure you can articulate it better than us since the question is out there for the whole room to hear if you can kind of state the perspective of the airport and the things that were discussed during public comment. OK, sure, uh, Comm., um. Other commissioners, um, I guess we don’t really feel like we have any loose ends. We’ve done what we said we were gonna do.

00:15:58,200	Um, contrary to maybe what was stated earlier, uh, the unresolved issues, I don’t see that there’s an unresolved issue with the parking, um, The parking, uh, discussion has has been had. Uh, we’ve talked about it 33 or 4 times, um. The parking is going to be laid out.

00:16:25,900	Um, As per, um, the drawings inside the packet, uh, that you have tonight. Um, Um, as far as access to the building, um, we talked about, uh, adding a gate.

00:16:53,770	I think at our last meeting, um, because I, I didn’t, I wasn’t happy with not having a gate inside that turnaround area and so we’ve already put one in, um, and we’re working with the fire department now to. Make sure that they have or they can gain access uh through that gate cause it’s a manual gate, it’s not one of our normal, uh, inner security program.

00:17:19,800	Um, Car access fiber optic uh type of gates, um, so we’ve taken care of that as far as the apron, uh, not having enough um apron space. Uh, ramp access issues over there, um, and, and, and, you know, they have more ramp now than they’ve ever had before. We just got done doing two, multi-million dollar apron expansions up on the north end of the airfield.

00:17:43,330	uh G Apron, uh, phase 4 and 5, We have, uh, I think a. Final walkthrough on phase 5, In the coming days, uh, so you know, I don’t know, we I think we’ve done what we said we were gonna do, um, it’s a matter of competition between the two FBOs we’ve heard from Mr.

00:18:07,970	Simmers before and how he doesn’t, you know, like what was happening, but we have to be fair to everybody. Um, he did not include the space that for the uh executive air tank air taxis hanger is gonna go. And we have to be fair to everybody, and we can’t just.

00:18:26,800	If it’s not in his development agreement, then it’s fair game for somebody else to come in and develop on it and executive Air Taxi took it upon themselves to propose a building that filled a large gap. In that area and uh um. is building 22 that he’s in now.

00:18:49,030	Uh, has been extended twice, um, originally he was supposed to be out of that building a number of years ago and then it was extended and then it was extended again so I don’t know. That’s what I got to say. I’d be happy to answer any other questions or detailed question. I appreciate the explanation because like um was mentioned before, Comm.

00:19:14,270	Risch wasn’t here when we had that discussion and it’s all good for the city with it being airplane and everything to get that update had, um, So just appreciate it. Anything else? OK Yeah No other questions. Um, item 34, 0. And retain a motion. Motion to approve. OK Motion in a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none, please call the roll. Mr. Connelly, yes. Comm., Comm. Zenker. Yes. I don’t turn the baton back over there. Thank you, commissioners.

00:20:04,900	I will move to the regular agenda. First item is received a report from the Bismarck Man and Chamber you see related to. Economic development services provided and I believe in the next meeting we’ll have the similar report from the downtowers they were just out of unavailable today, so, um, Brenda. All right, I think the uh.

00:20:23,970	Thank you very much for the technology. Good evening, Mayor, commissioners, thank you very much for allowing us to come, uh, from the Bismarck Mandan chamber EDC to provide an update. This would be the quarter 3 update already and so we’ve got lots of great things going on and I’ll share what those items are.

00:20:45,900	So along the lines of workforce development because I think a lot of times people think that economic development is only putting up buildings, um, and that, um, is as far from the truth as as you can get because buildings need people and workforce is certainly important.

00:21:04,500	And so some of the things that our team has really been working hard at is connecting with the folks that are here and part of our our existing workforce. Um, a few things that we want to highlight for sure is the internship network and I reported on this um in one of the previous quarter reports, um, but I think it’s worth repeating again, um, we held an

00:21:23,000	event, uh, towards the end of the summer and we had over 50 young people attend. I think we had like 2 RSVPs and over 50 young people attended, um, which tells us that these young interns who are here from states across the nation.

00:21:44,500	Um, it’s not just, uh, UND NDSU, University of Mary, um, here for Interns or internships in Bismarck and Mandan. These are students from across the United States who are in our Bismarck Mandan community, um, who are working, uh, temporarily as an intern, um, and they desired to make connections with the people, um, that are their age and who are also doing the same thing.

00:22:07,230	Um, we don’t have an agenda necessarily when we get together with them. We really want to provide a space, um, to help them meet other people, um, and. To talk a little bit about what’s going on in our beautiful city, um, because our hope is that they will go back to whatever university or college they came from at the

00:22:25,830	completion of their internship and um graduate from college and choose to come back to our community to, uh, live and, and work. And so it’s been a really amazing opportunity to um to connect with them.

00:22:44,300	We do have another event coming up in November, uh, where we will invite, um, some of that same group. Some of them are still here, some are rotating through to different internships. And so with the success we’ll continue to do that.

00:23:01,730	This particular um program or event, um, at the end of the summer was held at Laing Sun, and like I said, there was over 50 young people, um, in that area throwing axes and enjoying good food and, um, and great conversation. Along the lines of students, um, is the students who are in our Bismarck, um, public school system as well as our private schools. And so we are, we kicked off a student leadership network participant network.

00:23:24,170	Student leadership is very similar to leadership Bismarck Mandan. What we do is we take, um, high school students and they apply to be a part of this program. We had over 30 students who applied to be in the student leadership network and they get to go through a a program where they’re introduced to various businesses who are in the community, um, to make those

00:23:45,530	connections and potentially see what they might want to do in their college career or maybe, um, not go to college, maybe they wanna do, go right into the workforce, but it gives them an opportunity to have a a touch and a, um, and an inside look into the different places that we have available in

00:24:03,170	Bismarck. Um, this will go on for the next several months. It’s a great opportunity again for us to make connections with our very own students here.

00:24:21,270	Um, and then we kicked off the new American leadership, um, group and so again that is kind of a spin-off of Leadership Bismarck Mandan, um, but we have also heard from various, um, entities like Sanford, um, CHI, um, NISE Cloverdale, that they have recruited workforce from various places. Now, keep in mind these are, these are actually American citizens. These are not people who are here illegally, um.

00:24:47,900	But they’ve come to the United States and they’ve come um into the Bismarck, um, community and are a part of our workforce. Many of them don’t come from a community where they feel comfortable that they can come to a city commission meeting. Um, that’s not the type of government that they, um, are accustomed to seeing.

00:25:07,630	And so we want to introduce them to how do you interact with your local government? How do you local, um, interact with your state government? Um, how do you go into the bank? Um, and make a deposit because many of these people um in the country in which they came from, that’s not a comfortable thing for them. They don’t um give their money to the bank to deposit it.

00:25:22,700	Um, there’s just a lot of different things and a lot of different cultures and so our goal is to, uh, expose these folks, um, to the, the business community, to the various options that they have as a citizen, um, of our community of Bismarck, um, and, and help them through that process.

00:25:43,430	And then finally along the lines of Workforce development is our welcome initiative. This came to us, um, a few months back at the request of First Lady, um, Schmitz, and, um, to really quote her, um, she said, you know, we’re, we’re in North Dakota nice, but sometimes we’re not always that nice here.

00:26:01,100	Um, and we used to in the, in the good old days, we used to invite people over to dinner when they moved into the neighborhood, um, and we used to spend a little bit more time getting to know our neighbors. And so we are working um through our workforce development.

00:26:18,730	Team on a welcome initiative on how do we best welcome, um, new people, um, to the Bismarck community and so more to come on that. Higher education, we can’t kick off fall without talking about higher education and while I don’t work at the University of Mary anymore. I certainly know a lot of things that are going on there as well as as BSC and United Tribes Technical College.

00:26:41,030	This is a group of students who can be our our next workforce people who can fill our workforce gaps. BSC had over an 11% increase in enrollment this fall. Um, they’re at overall 4,206 students, which is amazing, um. University of Mary is at 3,853 total students. That’s their online population as well as their undergrad.

00:27:08,830	And just a shout out for them, they had another record breaking undergrad enrollment um season. And so this fall they welcomed a record breaking class of freshmen. Again, I’ve said it before. I know that they’ve said it, but 65% of their incoming freshman class, nearly every year comes from another state outside of the state. In North Dakota.

00:27:32,830	We have a golden opportunity every fall when those young people show up in Bismarck to check in to residence halls at the University of Mary to welcome them and to show them that this community is a place for them to get their education as well as, um, graduate and become part of our, our workforce. And then also United Tribes Technical College.

00:27:54,700	They had nearly a 6% increase. They’ve primarily got technical degrees. But they’re also filling some things like welding, um, driving trucks and things, we know that those are really, really important.

00:28:17,630	And so, um, kudos and congratulations to UTTC for helping us to bring students to our community through BSC University of Mary, and UTTC um to fill workforce gaps. We work with all three of them at the chamber EDC to help understand what the needs of the students are, um, and to connect them with employers to make sure that they know what’s happening. what’s available for them. In the business development uh area, there’s a lot going on here.

00:28:37,970	Um, Nathan Schneider and, and the economic development team have been very, very busy. I’ll start out first by, um, the screenshot there we send out the Bismarck Mandan economy at a glance.

00:28:59,800	I think most of you received that, um, but just to kind of point out from July of 2023, if you compare 23 to 24, we were up 80% of uh new commercial permits issued. Um, we had an increase in commercial. Permit valuations and certainly our airport, um, passenger boardings, um, there’s no struggle there. That airport is busy all the time. Um, we’re helping to monitor local ordinances to make sure that things are certainly in place, um, so that we can have good, um, business environment.

00:29:22,230	We’re assisting in some ongoing projects. We have some confidential projects that I really can’t report on, but sometimes just saying to people we have some confidential projects going on, um, you know, many times when somebody wants to come to our community.

00:29:39,830	They have a sign an NDA, um, because they don’t want the whole world to know just yet, but we do have um. Some projects in the works and I look forward to the day when I can stand in front of you and say, we’ve got something to share with you, um, and, and we’ll, you’ll be the first ones to know.

00:29:57,500	Um, our primary sector recruitment is really, um, a program that we’re utilizing online marketing. So when we send out our emails, our regular, um, updates to various people who have um asked to be in contact with us. We create awareness.

00:30:16,170	We want to tell them about the community first and kind of, uh, bring them in and and let them know all of the beautiful things that happen in Bismarck. And once they start interacting with us, we continue to then feed them information so that they’re aware of what are the opportunities um in the Bismarck community. And then we motivate their engagement.

00:30:37,570	We’ve started sending out packets of goodies, um, things that are made in this community, um, to these people, um, to let them know that you can come to Bismarck either to live and work, or to bring your business, whether it’s a small business, a medium. B or a large business and so we’re interacting in a very positive way, um, with those opportunities.

00:30:59,470	And then finally our continued focus in, um, Q4, much of this has been things that we’ve been working on throughout, um, throughout the last two quarters, but it, it’s worth repeating because they’re important. Um, I’ve had the opportunity to um sit on the steering committee for Land Development code.

00:31:17,570	I’m learning more about land development codes than I ever wanted to know. Um, it’s actually quite interesting, um, most of it, um, but it, it is important and we’ve heard from some of the developers and folks.

00:31:37,830	Um, prior to this group kicking off, that there’s, there’s old code, there’s old things in the system that um city of Bismarck needs to update, you recognize that as well, and that’s why you’re, um, doing this project. And I appreciate the opportunity to have a voice at that table.

00:31:58,730	Um, I am your voice for Keep It Local property Tax Coalition, um, and so we have a measure, uh, measure number 4, on, on the ballot and some people have already voted, others are to wait until, um, in November to vote, um, but we actively participate as a chamber EDC on the keep it local, um, coalition.

00:32:21,800	Um, we believe that the property tax, uh item should be something that you as local commissioners, um, as well as county commissioners should have the responsibility and the ability um to act upon to um help the things that we need, um, in our cities rather than shifting that over to our state. Legislators, that’s not what we voted them in for. We voted for you to hold you accountable for spending the money in the, in the right way.

00:32:38,770	And then, um, finally, I am a committee member to review the Bismarck Event Center RFP, um, process that was brought, um, by, um, city administrator Jason Tomonic, um, a while back and so we’ll be meeting and I’ll be participating on that and, and, um, sharing my, my guidance on that particular project. Those are the things that we are working on. There’s lots more.

00:33:00,630	I’d take questions if you have um any, but that is my update for Q3. Any questions? Thank you, Brenda. Thank you for your time. Next item is a public hearing on the confirmation of the 2024 health and safety assessments. And this is a public hearing.

00:33:26,870	It’s I’m just gonna open up the public here in our way so anyone who wish to speak to this can come forward. A 2nd call. A 3rd and final call on the On this The public comment period is now closed. Comm., what are your wishes? Move to approve. 2. Is there any discussion? Hearing on call roll. Comm. Risch, Comm. Zenker. Comm. Connelly, Mayor Schmitz, yes.

00:34:00,430	Next item is a public hearing on Mm Yeah Because on the special assessment district to confirm. The assessments as amended, um, So we’ll open up the public hearing. Anyone who wished to comment, please come forward. A 2nd call. A 3rd and final call.

00:34:39,400	OK, before I close the public hearing, no, I’m going to Uh requests that our commissioners consider that in light of the North Dakota Supreme Court decision in Sinsky Reynolds, LLC versus City of Grand Forks at the public hearing. be continued to October 22nd, the next regular meeting. With the direction for the special assessments Commission to modify their findings if deemed appropriate.

00:35:03,970	Due to the most recent case or so we follow that case and um I’ll ask Attorney Combs to come forward and explain why we need to do that. Mayor and commissioners, there’s been a court case in the last month that came down that affects special assessments, how everyone in North Dakota does that.

00:35:23,170	The city attorney’s groups have discussed different ways to try to conform to it, uh, because we all do it the same way. So, uh, there is a process that we have all worked together that we think will conform to what’s happening but still meet our October 31st deadline to certified to the county. So it would just require the special assessment committee make an additional finding.

00:35:42,670	So that’s why if we can leave it open so you can get additional information, remand it down to special assessment committee and then it’ll come back to you at the next meeting. We think that we can be in conformance with that court case. Comm. Connelly.

00:36:02,200	Would that apply to the protest too? Because that specially assessed too, isn’t it? The name. Oh, no, this, um, that is about the resolution of necessity. That was not discussed at all in this case. This is about confirming the benefits. It can’t be related to the cost of it.

00:36:24,530	It has to be related to a benefit instead, so it changed how the numbers are calculated, not whether it’s necessary to do the project. All right. Thank you. So commissioners, can I get a motion to a motion to have a continuance on item 4C2. And Remand assessment commission. Yes. Thank you. Any discussion. Hear no call roll. Comm. Risch Yes. Comm. Zanker, Mr. Connelly, Mayor Schmidt.

00:37:03,200	Next item is a public hearing on Ordinance 6587 to create a Prohibition against the to prohibit camping ordinance. That’s why a lot of people are here, um. Do I need Any, anyone from staff going to make an introduction or? Uh, I’m fine if they don’t. Go ahead, Jason, if you don’t mind, please. Good evening, Mayor and commissioners.

00:37:37,370	Uh, obviously we’ve got a good number of people here that have an interest in the next item on the agenda, uh, maybe just to set the table a little bit for how we got here, um, by no means was this an overnight decision.

00:37:56,370	This has been something that, uh, as an organization, we have been talking about a number of different aspects to, uh, to our community since at least since the onset of the mayor’s Gold Star Community Task Force, which was formed by Mayor Mike Seminary back in 2017, and that was a.

00:38:14,030	An effort that was primarily led by Bismarck Burley Public Health, uh, through a number of meetings, a number of, uh, Frankly, a number of years that have gone by, we are at a point in our community where we have, we are faced with some new challenges and some of these challenges are primarily relating to the collection of personal items stored on public property and really what I’m talking about here is, uh, places within our community, whether it be on the boulevard in front of a

00:38:33,800	business or residences or in areas of downtown. We have an accumulation of personal items that have. In some cases begun to pose problems for law enforcement. We also have situations where they’re generating a number of complaints by homeowners, property owners, and business owners.

00:38:55,700	And so what we have in front of you tonight is one of many other actions that will follow down the road. Uh, this is the first step to provide a tool for the law enforcement for Bismarck Police Department to be able to respond to situations where we do have calls for complaints effectively where we’ve got personal items that have been accumulating on public property.

00:39:15,100	Uh, what we are not doing here tonight. We are not intending to criminalize homelessness. We are not here to, uh, to pick on anyone in our community, what we are here to do is start addressing some of the issues that are generating complaints in our community and so this ordinance, the intent is to provide law enforcement with

00:39:33,530	the means. To effectively address these situations when they occur. Are we going to be out throughout the community looking for these situations? No, generally we are complaint response. We are driven by complaints and when we have situations. We are looking for answers and this is one attempt to try and address some of these concerns in our community.

00:39:55,430	Are we done trying to address the bigger issue here by no means. This is the first step of many steps to come in the near future. What this is primarily is this is something for law enforcement to use to address some of the situations that we have.

00:40:10,400	There will be other steps, there will be other. Uh, attempts to, uh. Provide service, uh, for those that are seeking service in the near future from public health, uh, Renee Mock, our public health director, although not directly affiliated with this ordinance, I’m sure would have a number of responses for other questions that would likely come up.

00:40:33,000	The intent tonight here is to really Primarily focus on the the proposed ordinance and recognizing that this is a means for our police department to start addressing some of the complaints to make sure that our community remains safe and healthy and uh a place for everybody to have uh uh protection, but also uh just general uh opportunity as well.

00:40:54,230	So with that in mind, uh, Mayor, I know you, you’ve got. Uh, some comments for the folks that are willing to share their public thoughts and as staff if there are questions that come up along the way, we would either be happy to address those as needed, or we can run a collection of those questions

00:41:11,270	and try and address them all at once at the end. Uh, one thing I should also note for for anybody that has noticed Comm. Cleary is not here. She was unable to attend this meeting tonight.

00:41:27,870	However, she does have uh some comments that she would like read for the record as part of the public hearing and then she had asked. I would do that. So once everyone else has had an opportunity to share their thoughts on the ordinance. I, I would like the chance to just share Comm.

00:41:41,900	Cleary’s thoughts for you as well because she really did want to be here for this unfortunately, her job required her to travel and she is in the air right now and not able to participate in the meeting. So if you have any questions, I’d be happy to try and answer them now. If not, Mayor, we’re, we’re ready as needed. Anyone have questions of Jason before I open up public hearing? Thank you, Jason.

00:41:56,800	Thank you for the introduction. So this is, this will be a public hearing. We have a lot of people here, um. who wish to speak. I’m not gonna hold a hard and fast. Rule, but I’m going to ask for roughly a 5 minute. Time limit to your presentation.

00:42:15,770	I’m also gonna request that if someone or several people have already spoken and said the same thing. You can come to approach the podium, please, and say I agree with how. That side was presenting their information so that we can make sure we get to everyone and be, uh, uh, respectful of everyone’s time.

00:42:35,770	Also, I requested everyone make sure that we respect everyone and each other in the room, uh, with a lot of people here, you know, our emotions sometimes can become fragile and we want to make sure we keep proper decorum. So in the event that it is determined that I see or hear belligerent type language. I will then ask that person to leave the room.

00:42:54,770	Um, because we need to have respect and decorum in the room. So with that, I now open up the public hearing for Ordinance 6587. Anyone who wishes to speak, please come forward, state your name, and do sign in. Thank you. OK, my name is uh Michael J. Walsh. I have.

00:43:14,030	Grew up with the business, King Crain Laundry Car and Dog Wash and way back in 1960, uh, many, many, many interactions with law enforcement. Um, so, but what I’m gonna speak about is that uh how, what kind of uh what, what the situation now is where law enforcement didn’t be like that before, but now it’s like if you say anything to them and

00:43:39,170	try to explain something to him, sir, sir, keep your comments to the ordinance. It is specifically to the ordinance, OK, I appreciate it if you let me reclaim my time here a little bit. OK, so anyway, um. House of color is in the same block, OK, so there’s people camping.

00:43:58,900	You know, on house at Colar Boulevard, so it’s definitely related. You know, they need a place to go pee pee and poo poo, you know, uh, those same people and, uh, and Renee Mark, I, I noticed in one of the meetings that they had, uh, Uh, on there, uh, um, on one of the previous ones she mentioned something about the

00:44:19,700	rear, I think, I don’t know if I pronounce it, but, um, something to do with, uh, first responder stuff. OK, and now, but anyway, um, and I agree with that, you know, with the chaplain when he said about first responder.

00:44:40,000	You know, giving them the wisdom to do whatever, you know, so, but I’ve had some really bad experiences and that’s why I want to make sure that there’s something more than just them hollering at a person and saying, uh, well, if you got anything to say to us, that’s what the courts are for, you know.

00:44:54,900	I don’t think it’s quite that it’s kind of like a loftware thing, you know, especially if there’s a lot of things that’s happening, you know, you guys have authority, uh, John Rich was, I really appreciate you coming down. He was down for half an hour. So he has a little hint to what I’m gonna, uh, bring up. I’ve got it on the, uh, on the, and I’ll move right along with this.

00:45:11,430	I got, I, I’m gonna, I got my time thing going, so I’ll try to keep with them. I, I don’t know if you want me to change it into a chipmunk thing or, you know, with a double speed, um, but I, I think I can do it within 57 minutes at the most.

00:45:27,430	Um, but I’ve kind of organized. Do you see on there the, the door there? OK, this is relating to the encampments. This is relating to those people over in House of Color and that where they need to go to use the restroom, uh, during the day and stuff and and our hours are like 14 to 16 hours.

00:45:46,270	I’ve kept the restroom open there, allowing those people to go now I have to intern from University of Mary that we’ve set it up so that we alarm if somebody’s been there too and we might even have something if there is some kind of uh drug, whatever, you know, I look into it.

00:46:03,470	I don’t know how expensive that is. uh, you know, but we, but we don’t allow people to be in the bathroom too long and, and most, but we do allow people to go and buy if they ever, you know, I was part of a mission down there in third world country.

00:46:18,830	I was with him, you know, uh, with the emergency room Dr. and one of the things he noticed was people doing the Pepe poo poo thing out in the open there and he said, well, I hope that never happens here in Bismarck, you know, and that, uh, but anyway, I’ll, I’ll. Move right along here.

00:46:36,500	OK, we had a situation, uh, if you see on the picture there, now I am not the smallest uh over guardian lock, they have a smaller bathroom. But take a look at that and John when he was down there, he opened up that lock is a privacy lock within a second he opened it up and I didn’t think he could do it

00:46:50,770	because he had a thicker key. And my gripe is that they’re trying to twist this and and they’ve been told before both the city attorney and the uh and the and the police department, uh, that is a simple lock, and they have to understand it.

00:47:11,170	There’s no training required to like picking locks and stuff and they’re twisting the truth so bad and gaslighting and stuff so so please this is on the move right along, OK, because that’s, that’s kind of off track from what this it’s right on track. No sir, I apologize, but you, but, but if you listen, let me finish what I’m saying.

00:47:30,900	You’ll understand where, where it leads to, you know, uh, I know it’s gonna be a little bit uncomfortable for me and it’s uncomfortable for some of you, uh, some of the, what I’m gonna show, you know, but the reality is that restroom might help, we could find a way so that the homeless couldn’t use it at all,

00:47:49,100	but I wasn’t for that because of my past experience with the mission work. And that type of thing, so, uh, anyway, the, um, The door. Uh, they destroyed my door and instead of partnering with a person with the wholeness and stuff and recognizing what we’re providing there, the extra expense and, and there, no,

00:48:14,100	they destroyed my door and then they, but the biggest problem was that if somebody was a tipsy or something a little bit, uh, anybody from the car wash or whatever happened to be in there and they, they got a little tipsy by the, you can see on the, well, I gotta bring this up.

00:48:30,030	She, uh, Whitney showed me. Well, it is up there. Oh, OK, yeah, you can see it, OK, so you can see uh the biggest thing that I’m after is the life-threatening situation of injury and also of uh of, of, I mean it and it was just so ridiculous for him to do that and then there’s a bunch of

00:48:54,170	other issues in terms of of saying that staff was there. Yeah, staff was there. It was like from here. by where those people are standing, but it was away from along the side there, the dog wash is transparent.

00:49:13,400	It’s a translucent and, and we’re working in there trying to get that going in there and no, I mean, but now they’re they’re twisted the truth so bad on the report stuff and their insurance stuff, they twisted it all around and, and, but I, what I’m looking for is rather than having, uh, this lawfare stuff where you force the business owner mom and pop business or whatever for force

00:49:30,530	them to be, uh, and things like this come up where you, there is, oh, well, that’s for the and then the JL says, well, you get a lawyer and stuff and I said, well,, $2000 probably minimum in that.

00:49:47,070	Oh, that’s the going rate, you know, I mean, it’s just I just just it’s mind numbing in terms of past experience with past commissions and past police chiefs and past past interactions with him, you know, I’ve had cameras since 1982, by the way. Um, I’m gonna move right along here and I’m gonna try OK, but I see, oh boy, that really. I was trying really flies. OK, um.

00:50:10,370	I thought I had it here, oh, over here, there, OK, here’s where you know the lock and the other, and he puts down staff on the report and I trusted the officer.

00:50:31,400	Uh, but this is related to thecaus because you know, whether if businesses can have something like that and then, you know, especially a nontant business a little bit like a rest area or something, but ours, we tend to have somebody there all the time and I was there and, and the dumb bunny when he takes the uh. Phone call.

00:50:54,800	It wasn’t like any normal uh highway patrol type of coordination Roger over now, sir, I, I’m sorry you’ve you’ve actually, sir, sir, sir, you, you’ve exceeded your time limit by. 78 minutes already, so, uh, and this is not this is not this is not, can you give me 2 minutes? I need 2 minutes, sir. This is not even on topic. I need 2 minutes. It’s very important.

00:51:14,130	The court of public opinion, sir, I’m going to ask you to step away from the microphone. Because it’s not on topic and you’ve now become. get a supervisor. I can’t make contact with you. No, I want you to listen to this. Get your, get your supervisor right now you guys are harassing me. Please shut that down. Please shut that down. harassing you.

00:51:34,270	Yeah Yeah, this is harassing. Shut up. Jeremy, you’re not interested in the truth, are you? You’re scared of the truth. John got little Sam sample of it. Sir, you can leave the room now, please. Well, I’ll just stay here. Listen on the rest of it. Yeah. Go ahead, sir. Good evening.

00:51:54,500	Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you. My name is Dave Bender. I’m with the Soup Cafe. I’m one of the neighbors of the, the, the man here who is in the house color area, the ministry on the that’s our corner.

00:52:07,830	We take care of our neighbors and you can hear that in, in a way he’s taking care of the neighbors that we, we’re taking care of as well. And so, um, We’re thankful that you are. people over Possessions.

00:52:29,230	I did hear that, you know, there’s some issues with possessions that are on people’s Possessions And, uh, just remember, we want you to know that we want to make sure you’re keeping people first over possessions and That’s what we’re here for on the on behalf of the coalition. I’m on the board. I’m also, uh, the coordinator at the soup cafe, so I have a vested interest in my mission to help these individuals.

00:52:47,030	And Um, I’d like to, if I could just read the statement from the, uh, coalition. On October 8th, the Missouri Valley Coalition for Homeless People believes everyone deserves a place to call home. Homelessness has been increasing across our nation. And unfortunately in our community.

00:53:12,970	Uh, 2024 survey conducted by the Bismarck Burley Public Health supported the additional Supported by our additional membership identified 169 individuals who are homeless and in a shelter provided by one of our partner agencies on a single night. Additionally, we found 63 individuals who chose not to go to a shelter that night or weren’t in a shelter that night. As a coalition serving Southern, South Central, North Dakota.

00:53:34,070	Our members collaborate to address the needs of the homeless, which range from emergency shelter to permanent housing plus services that help individuals remain housed, including behavioral health support, meals, food assistance, transportation, employment assistance, life skills training, and more. Our coalition applauds our city leaders, including the city commissioners, mayors, the Bismarck Police Department, Bismarck Burley Public Health for seeking solutions to address the challenges associated with homelessness.

00:54:01,570	However, Regarding this ordinance, we believe that more consultation and collaboration is needed to develop a service-oriented public health center plan that involves city outreach reach beyond law enforcement. To our chagrin, our coalition leadership, which includes the Bismarck shelters, the service providers, we weren’t consulted during the drafting of this ordinance.

00:54:25,100	Over the past week, our board of directors held two special meetings to consult with the Bismarck Police Department. Bismarck Burley Public Health and colleagues in Fargo who advised us on a similar ordinance they have. We strongly feel that the city needs more time. At a minimum a few more weeks, and ideally several months hopefully prior to the spring thaw when this situation will come around again.

00:54:45,970	To collaboratively collaboratively develop a plan to address the displacement of the individuals. A more inclusive collaborative process would include consultation with us. Our partner agencies as well as public health, law enforcement, park and rec, human service centers, business owners, other relevant parties who could then collectively bring a more detailed plan to the city commission.

00:55:09,430	In some before enacting an encampment ban. We would like to see resources invested in solutions that ensure the individuals know where to access the bathroom. They know where to find safe shelter.

00:55:31,900	They learn where to store their belongings, charging unsheltered individuals with a crime, especially without adequate knowledge of where a shelter might be or treatment options may only compound their personal challenges and further stigmatize their situation. Current providers are often at capacity, so we urge the city to invest on in a collaborative process and detail an action plan that will provide wraparound support as a long-standing strategy and solution.

00:55:56,370	Keys to this investment include city public and continued private funding for proactive outreach for ensuring and if necessary, expanding current services, shelter capacity, resource orientation. I’d encourage each of you to imagine that if you suffered a major medical issue resulted in you losing your job. Eventually you’re home. You’re already estranged from all of your extended family.

00:56:15,800	To survive, you’re living on the streets, but you don’t, you don’t have access to a bathroom, a shower, or a place to store your limited personal items. Shelters and treatment centers are full. You’re on the waiting list. The police say that you’ll you’ll be charged with a crime if you don’t move along.

00:56:37,730	Where would you go? Don’t we all deserve safety, care, and empathy on our journey to that place that we can call home? We’d like to be consulted. We’d like to be involved. And we agree that people shouldn’t be putting their personal property on personal property. But people first. Before property. Any questions? Any questions? Thank you, sir. um I’m Joseph Hyman.

00:57:13,030	I’m a general manager at Interiors by France and Bismarck Interiors by design now. Um, You guys got tough decisions here. I can empathize with that Guy. I’ve watched this Guy run that car wash for 40, 50 years now.

00:57:39,800	Um, I’m in favor Of uh Of this, but I’ve also got concerns of If this starts on the public areas where they’re going to go to, what private areas are they going to go to? We kind of are in that neighborhood with everybody else, King Coin and House of Color. I don’t know if any of you guys have driven up 24th Street just north of Broadway at 6:30 in the morning when I’m going to work, but I can count anywhere from 35 to 40.

00:57:55,970	Homeless people, which is concerning. It’s getting cold. People can freeze. It’s also concerning because there’s a lot of drug activity going on there. Somebody was stabbed two weeks ago over there. This also goes on at the 16th Street Park. Kitty corner from your building here.

00:58:14,770	Right on Broadway at that seating area I can generally see 4 to 5 homeless people there middle of the day. South 12th Street. It’s becoming more and more of a problem in their entire city. Um, so I am in favor of that, um. And I was happy to hear Jason say, this is the first step.

00:58:33,300	Um, I, I, I don’t think we can just keep arresting people, taking them to jail, feeding them and letting them out the next day, or it’s going to become repetitive. Um, I just hope you guys. Have some ideas and some plans, you know, to take care of this. I mean, we find syringes, bags of weed in our parking lot. They get into our fountain and they bathe.

00:58:52,570	Um, It’s just, uh, I, I don’t remember ever seeing this problem in Bismarck before until the last 10 years and it’s just getting worse and worse, and it, it, I see it. Becoming a snowball and rolling downhill if we don’t do something about it. Soon Thank you for your time. Thank you. One more thing.

00:59:14,130	This is all going on in that neighborhood. That seems to be like the worst neighborhood in the city. You know, and. Our taxes are going up and that neighborhood is going down. So Thank you. Uh, good afternoon, Comm.. Sorry to have I don’t forget to sign in. All the speakers, um, sorry, I have my laptop with me.

00:59:40,100	I did not have time to print out my notes. My name is Katie Lee. Um, I represent an individual in the city of Bismarck and work for the Department of Emergency Services, and so, um, not as a representative of them, but in my personal and professional perspective, there are some significant community concerns um for the Individuals

01:00:01,030	experiencing or that may experience this ordinance and I don’t think it necessarily has to do with their property, but the portion of where they’re gonna sleep. Um, the public property, uh, that is also their property.

01:00:22,400	And unfortunately, if they don’t have a place to sleep, uh, this increases vulnerability to them and exposes them to danger, forcing people to move or hide in less visible areas may expose them to more dangerous conditions, such as isolated areas where they are vulnerable to violence, theft, and forms of harm, um, because every individual in this community has a, a different situation and so not, not one size fits all.

01:00:41,570	Uh, health risks, lack of safe sleeping spaces can lead to increased exposure to the elements resulting in heightened risk of hypothermia, heat stroke, and other weather-related issues. Um, increases in strain on emergency services, higher use of emergency services, um, And for unhoused people that are pushed into potentially more dangerous or hidden areas such as flood zones which we saw, um,

01:01:03,470	in the flooding of, um, Fargo where they were along the river and so most of their things were destroyed because that was where they were able to sleep. Um, Hospitals, police and fire departments may see an increase in calls due to heightened risks.

01:01:24,300	Um, criminalization and legal consequences, um, increasing criminalization, um, policies not even if not the intent policies that can ban sleeping in public spaces can lead individuals who are already struggling into further detriments such as tickets, arrests, or fines. This creates legal records, fines they cannot pay, jail time making it even harder for them to escape their homelessness while creating barriers.

01:01:43,900	This also increases barriers to assistance, having a criminal record or fines can make it even more difficult for unhoused individuals to access housing, employment, or other essential services perpetuing perpetuity in the cycle of homelessness. If they don’t have places to sleep in public spaces, they get disconnected from resources. The hospitals, your clinics, your food, they’re all in city limits.

01:02:07,430	And so if they’re pushed out of public spaces, um, with shelters being almost always at capacity or over, um, they are away from their, their resources that they need to survive, um, especially if it’s in the colder months. You also lose community support, um, homeless individuals often build informal support networks with each other in similar situations.

01:02:29,530	So if they are, uh, around the city Communicating with people in the similar similar situations of them. This forces them to move frequently and can disrupt these networks, making it harder for them to find what they need, especially if they don’t have a means of communication.

01:02:50,230	It also creates social marginalization and stigmatation such as isolation, laws that prohibit sleeping in public spaces can further stigmatize homelessness, reinforcing social isolation, and it marginalized unhoused individuals, making it harder for them to integrate into society. Um, Please consider these concerns and questions when making your decisions to one of North Dakota’s most vulnerable populations, um, they are really struggling as it is.

01:03:11,970	And so, um, if they can get more support instead of less, that would be great. I know it is inconvenient to have them sleeping in public properties, but someone who is sleeping probably doesn’t have the intent to hurt you. As I said, not every individual situation is the same. These are people, families, veterans, mothers, mothers and children.

01:03:29,630	So please, please remember that when making such an impactful decision as there. There is not one good approach for all of this, but these inherent risks and, um, these inherent risks that can and will be posed upon these vulnerable populations in North Dakota. um, can create additional cascading problems, so. Thank you.

01:03:46,170	That’s what I have to say unless there’s any questions. Comm. Um, first name again, Katie Leach. Um, Katie, are you able to stay to the fruition of this discussion. Yes, I will be OK, appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Mayor and commissioners.

01:04:33,700	I, I echo what was just said and also the need to partner with her social agencies in the creation of such an ordinance, but also thank you for your service to the city of Bismarck and your willingness to discuss this complex issue for our community.

01:04:52,430	I am Reverend Gretchen Diegue in a local church pastor, and it is of great importance that our city be safe for everyone, whether they are housed or unhoused. Thank you for the work of our police department, our social service agencies, public health department, and legal department for your ongoing discussions on how to achieve this goal. As I understand this ordinance, according to the background information from the Bismarck legal department.

01:05:14,230	The ordinance is intended to prohibit encampments where individuals set up fires, tents, furniture, and other items that are more than a person can carry. And the sleeping in public portion of the ordinance is much narrower and does not prohibit sleeping in parks or other city, county, state-owned property, except right of ways like alleys, streets and sidewalks. This keeps the city right of ways including doorways clear.

01:05:35,170	Having clear white right of ways is important for everyone in our city and this ordinance helps to address that issue. However, I would draw your attention to the ordinance in the 3rd section camping prohibited.

01:05:57,030	To maintain the stated purpose of this ordinance, I would ask the Commission to strike the words Park, bench, and any other public owned property or under a bridge or viaduct from the first sentence. These words take the ordinance beyond their intended scope and into a different issue, which can only be solved by reducing homelessness and establishing a low barrier emergency shelter in our city. Bismarck does not currently have a low barrier emergency shelter.

01:06:22,170	We must establish a place for our citizens experiencing homelessness, homelessness to go before prohibiting people from sleeping in public. Thank you. I would stand for questions. Comm. Risch Uh, Mr. Mayor, Reverend Gretchen. So what, what were you to get on the ordinance where you want it struck is 33.

01:06:49,370	Under prohibit, OK, second line park bench camping prohibited, yep, strike, park bench, or any other public owned property or under a bridge or viaduct. OK. Thank you. Thank you very much. I’m back to watch there. Emily running hacky majpito, um, hello, my name is Emily. um I am a. Person in recovery, I am a um student at United Tribes Technical College, and I am a resident here in Bismarck.

01:07:33,700	And I just had a few. Questions, I guess. Um, so it was reported that the police station fields numerous calls regarding individuals who are unhoused. Is this information documented and maintained within the city for its statistical purposes.

01:07:55,270	If the city and law enforcement could be more transparent to the community of the about this nature, uh, and the nature of these calls this would create. And understanding as to the demand and more regulation in our community, um, and my other question would be where would, where will these people be forced to go, pushed outside of the limits to walk where, which direction? And it’s not only.

01:08:19,700	My people, it’s every people from different backgrounds, different walks and races and ethnicities. Um, so we talked about North Dakota being a good relative, um. Where’s our good relative at now for these people? They need help. They don’t need to be pushed away. That’s all I have. Thank you. Thank you.

01:08:42,500	So can I ask for the chief to come up and respond to at least the first question if you can regarding statistics. I think it’s only fair to get the answer or an attempt to answer while the question was posed. So I didn’t hear everything you said, Mayor. So the question was, you, can you restate the question, Emily, please.

01:09:17,800	um, is this information documented and maintained within the city? like are do does the public have access to these calls? where the police are going and where they’re taking these people from like, where’s that document? Is it in a newspaper? Is it on a website? Is it available for anyone to see? It is. There’s a map.

01:09:37,100	And um somebody can help you get to it because I don’t, it’s on the city website where you can see all the calls the service that we go to. There’s a delay because we want to make sure that we’re always safe and the people, um, it’s not the exact addresses that we go to.

01:09:52,430	But it’s the 100 block, so everybody has an area knows the area because we want to single people out. Um, so you can look at that. We provide an annual report every year. We don’t discuss homeless issues though, the calls for service that most of the time, if there are homeless. It’s we’re doing welfare checks on people a lot.

01:10:08,470	Uh, we’re doing. Some, well, somebody gets drinking in downtown in public, we get a lot of those calls, those kind of things. And so those are all documented and you can look at them at any time. OK. Thank you. Thank you, Chief. Comm. Connelly, sorry, I didn’t see your hand.

01:10:28,730	That’s right, um, to kind of back up what the police chief said, um, a few years ago I did 4 ride alongs with the police department, full 12-hour shifts and then I also, uh, contacted Burley County Sheriff, and I talked to them and I did full 12 hour shifts on both their shifts.

01:10:47,900	And there are a significant amount of calls out there to address it. It’s in no way. Um, I’m just stating that as an experience, so I could learn more, not anyway on impacting the decision because I want to hear from everybody, but um there is a recording, it’s a time stamp thing and information is available that can be resourced through a lot

01:11:08,770	of different avenues, but we have to follow the, um, legal ways to get that information too and staff can help you with that. Right, a little duller. Uh, mayor commissioners, my name is Matt Hall, and I ask, have all stakeholders, uh, been consulted, not just the immediate stakeholders such as downtown businesses and the homeless individuals, but

01:11:34,430	advocacy groups such as Ministry on the Margins and the Downtowner or the city departments to be most directly affected, such as the police and public health. However, this doesn’t have to be an issue that pits two groups against each other, but the relevant group should be consulted together to develop a solution that solves the issue

01:11:52,030	for businesses without pushing those that are homeless out of out and creating a new problem. As proposed, this creates a problem before providing a solution. There is no sufficient shelter for these folks to go to if enacted now where our our neighbors and homelessness supposed to go? Lastly, as Jason mentioned, intent.

01:12:11,430	I want to talk about that. As we all know, this comes from our Supreme Court decision where made legal scholars focus on the intent of those that craft the law, but in the end is bent to the will of the interpreter. Therefore, I ask you to make sure the guardrails are kept on this rope.

01:12:26,800	So future city leaders can’t be it to to harass our community’s most vulnerable. Thank you. Seem to have lost the pen. Oh, I’m proud of that. I. Thank OK, yes, please. I’m a tuck Yuppi. I’m a yappi onely number. Mbekimania. know. My relatives, my name is Two Eagles, Carol T2 Eagles.

01:13:19,070	I walk with a pipe that makes me a spiritual guide for many people. The pipe is holy. And I have been up at the North Dakota legislature every single year, beginning in 1997 testifying on grassroots people’s concerns. And I’ve been quite successful up there. In The last few years. Um, I have brought this matter of homelessness to the committees.

01:13:52,700	And um It resulted in House concurrent resolution 3030, which went to the interim Committee on Government Services chaired by Representative Ben Kopelman and vice chaired by Senator Tim Maer they’re both from the Fargo area. Pardon me. And um They are studying the situation, so you might want to work with that.

01:14:19,300	I’m always available for questions from you and them, um, and any guidance that I can give you, but I was requested by homeless men in 2020. To try to find a better way for them to live than what they had. And we did come up, I and my board, I created everything because local attorneys said this isn’t needed.

01:14:38,070	Until one day I lost my temper and I said that’s because you guys are staying fat and sassy on the unmerry go round of people in and out of jail and prison, and they said, so what? That’s atrocious. I think to make your decision tonight on this proposed ordinance is much premature.

01:14:59,900	And I would request that in Section 4 you have the thing about 24 hours I would ask you to double that. To 48 hours because if you’re on foot, especially if you’re somewhat mobility handicapped. I dance on these.

01:15:20,170	Walking and carrying a load can be a real problem, so can pulling some kind of cart and many of these people have something similar, but they’re not on crutches or canes. So I think, uh, instead of creating uh criminalization, whether intentional or accidental, you need to work with this some more, and I’m always available for questions and if uh, Mayor, would you accept my business card? Sure, thank you, um, if you have any questions.

01:15:43,900	OK, if you have any questions, um, you can always get a hold of me. Uh, email is best. I tend not to answer the phone simply because it seems the phone always rings when I’m driving. And I just won’t try. Um, I don’t text while driving, I don’t talk on the phone while driving, I’m driving. But, um, uh.

01:16:05,700	I would love to be able to help with this some more. I’ve put 45 backbreaking years into this and I’ve even slept in the truck through a winter and a half, and I’ve stayed at the shelter, um, on South 12th at the request of legislators for um About A winter and a half. Um, gathering what they called accurate unedited data.

01:16:30,230	And submitting it to the, to the legislature. So if you would like my help, it’s there for you. Thank you. Good on me and I said thank you. You are all my relatives. Oops, and I have a pen that doesn’t write. Yeah Mm Please. Thank you. Here, I cursed the pin. John A second.

01:17:08,030	I just I need to. Oh OK. We go, thank you. Did I give you the card? Thank you so much. Maybe Mhm Good evening. Um, my name is Melanie Hakamp, and I am the executive director of Youth Works. I have been at youth works since 1987.

01:17:44,970	Um, Youth Force has served the homeless, the runaway and homeless youth and young adults since 1986. Um, I’m very familiar with the challenges. I appreciate the challenges that you have and the business community has in dealing with with these issues. I’m hearing tonight in support Of the Missouri Valley Homeless Coalition’s position.

01:18:11,100	Um, certainly at our um agency, our goal is to prevent long term homelessness by working with youth and young adults and those challenges only are compounded by everything that you read about mental health and addiction crisiss as well. And so, um, I don’t think we can deal with this issue.

01:18:35,100	I don’t think you can deal with this issue without also looking at how we address Mental health and addiction, um, problems as well and so I’m just here tonight to kind of support that what I would like to see is more discussion and um.

01:18:51,030	To table this a little bit and give a chance for all of the providers, those of us who have been doing this for a long time to be at the table to kind of talk about positive solutions. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening, Mayor. Comm., I’m Jenna Gallo, the executive director of the United Way. Seems like not too long ago, just yesterday when Melanie Heitkamp called me up in 2017 and asked our United Way, Jenna. It’s snowing outside. Will you help to shelter the homeless.

01:19:47,630	And yet it seems like another lifetime ago. Uh, since then, the United Way has built a permanent homeless shelter for the community located on South 12th Street. We offer 24/7 shelter to men, women, and children. We also have coordinated 35+ providers to come on site to provide regular and consistent services to help people out of poverty.

01:20:19,100	And the first night of the first snowstorm in October of last year. We sheltered 1044 individuals. Many of the folks that come to our doors, are suffering from a severe and persistent mental illness are in recovery from, from their addiction, come from the prisons, have a traumatic brain injury. We are fierce advocates for the most vulnerable people in our community.

01:20:47,670	So while we are a member of the Homeless Coalition. We do not serve on the coalition’s board, and I understand that the board crafted their position that was emailed to us members today. Our United Way board has not met on this ordinance since your last meeting two weeks ago.

01:21:12,030	But I can confidently say that United Ways supports the needs of our law enforcement and our business community. In my experience or law enforcement have been kind and compassionate when helping the homeless at her shelter. Based on your press release, which is the information I’m working from. This ordinance gives the Bismarck PD the tools they need to address issues such as encampment.

01:21:33,570	Furniture lining the streets and large amounts of personal belonging. I can see at our shelter it’s a priority that we keep it a clean and dignified place so that it can be welcoming and safe and so that we have room for people instead of belongings. Last night, our shelter helped 95 people, 19 of which were children.

01:21:59,570	It’s heart-wrenching to have policies that limit the belongings of the homeless, especially when they’ve lost everything. But sometimes rules are necessary to serve the greater good.

01:22:22,630	I’d like to thank Mayor Schmidt for your comments in the Bismarck Tribune when you say a call when you have a call to the public to support the nonprofits working on addressing these needs of the homeless. I know that our data says that when we have proper funding, 80% of the people we serve at our shelter do not return to homelessness. Right now, We have difficulty even addressing facility needs, yet alone the needs of our clients.

01:22:51,300	We need help, as do many of the other wonderful providers in our community. We care very deeply. About the needs of the homeless in our community. My 5 year old and I pray every morning on the way to preschool. For those who are hungry, those who are homeless, those who are alone.

01:23:16,430	Whether the ordinance moves forward tonight or not, United Way looks forward to more conversation about how we can be a part of a solution to address this growing need in our growing community. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, Comm. Connelly, I’m. Sorry about that, Comm.. And At least there’s nobody here to confuse my name with. Yeah, Comm. Conley, I think has a question. A couple of them.

01:23:47,430	One, thanks for what you do, um, part of it is when we talked about, uh, calls and stuff that another speaker talked about, um, when I was doing the, uh, ride alongs and then as well as when I worked at SEC, um, there are a lot of trips made down there to support a lot of people through

01:24:04,570	that corridor and um Just nodding, you’re kind of confirming that, so that’s why this question is coming up before all of us today. Um, back when the uh shelter was being built, it was originally thought that it would cost a lot less, and then it came out. Quite a bit higher originally.

01:24:24,230	Um. To is that a question? Did it come out a lot higher? Well, due to COVID we delayed the building of the shelter and we significantly downsized, yes.

01:24:46,700	The board made that decision because we are good stewards of donor dollars and it was important for us to not overbuild so that we have beds for hundreds of people. And the reason why I bring that up is not it’s not too uh. Try to say, I got your proof or anything.

01:25:05,570	It’s just some of these decisions, yeah, some of these decisions, uh, it takes a lot of collaboration in order to overcome some of those costs and things and that was just merely why I asked the question is because I remember those conversations when the call for projects versus going into COVID. Um, when you presented in front of the city commission at that time, so I pay attention. So, but I appreciate you answering.

01:25:26,170	So I, I’m, it’s me trying to uh keep up with my mind sometimes, so I apologize and we’ve dedicated a lot of man hours to trying to fill this need for the city. Um, one last thing is, like I mentioned with Katie, are you going to stay for the full fruition of the conversation tonight.

01:25:44,070	I’m sorry, are you going to stay till the end of this conversation tonight? I sure can. I have a babysitter for my 5 year old. I get that. My kids used to be shorter than me. Any other questions? Oh, thank you. Thanks, general. Thank you. This is, uh, public hearing. Anyone wish to speak? Please come forward. Hello. Uh, good evening, commissioners. Um, my name is Geraldine.

01:26:23,300	Um, I work for High Plains Fair Housing, uh, fair housing Center and we have fairs in grouping, uh, Bismarck, um. But I want to start my hearing with um. A personal thing. Back in 2019, I had a fire. My apartment burned down. I’m sorry I’m shaky because of that. I was one call away to be homeless.

01:26:48,270	Never did drugs. Never got in trouble. But um As a new member in the city, then I was. Without family? With nobody who I knew I could run to. I was one call away. To maybe end up on the street downtown. And um. I was able to pull myself on the straps because I had a job then.

01:27:14,130	Um, I was walking in, I was working in prison back then too, um, so how, um. My story actually uh. Um, Goes to where a hurt people within the prison systems who would just want to come in for a night. Just to have that shatter over the head.

01:27:36,700	So when I hear ordinances like what we are about to do tonight to our city, I’m thinking about myself. Also a no um when laws or rules are passed. One thing I’m thinking about is especially when it comes to law enforcement who is who, who will be impacted by those laws. They are minorities, they are people like me.

01:27:59,530	Um, And there are people who come into the city and just try finding their ways. I’ve spoken to a lot of people who came into this city just to um. To Le and they fell back by one bill and they ended up on the street and we. They’ll have all their things with them as we know.

01:28:19,230	Um, so if we are passing something like this, I really want to, not just think about how it looks on the face, but who is going to be impacted by the law because um love uh um a person like me on the street or a person or a colored person in general.

01:28:39,970	We are always like more in danger than any other person. I just wanted to put that out. Um, also, um. I wanted to um. Stuck on How we Where we like sending the funding.

01:29:06,100	I’m a taxpayer in this community, right? And where would that funding go to? Uh, we’ve paid more funding to have a police officers like keep a city safe but I really don’t see us doing more when it comes to homelessness or like giving resources to um the service providers, um, I’ve seen like uh a few times where our community with uh as the mayor, you’ve done something, right? I saw you do like a fundraising for homelessness some time back.

01:29:28,970	Yeah, um, little things like that, But we are really not doing enough, um, put it where we put our resources matter, right? And for me, I’m scared we are going to put more resources in law enforcement instead of providers who are going to help these people get off the streets.

01:29:47,230	And when they get off the street, they’re going to stay off the streets. Um, also, um, lastly I wanted to talk about um a lady, she’s actually on the street right now every time I drive, I see her, but she came to the office. She was, um, she was actually evicted.

01:30:08,100	There’s a lot of eviction happening in the city, um, right now, and she was evicted and um I took her to 12th Street so she can pass the night. And since then, every time I passed in the city, I see her sleeping in one corner or the other. She was 78 years old. Um, not because she can’t find a job to go back to. The life she lived.

01:30:28,830	But because our community doesn’t like give you the opportunity to pick yourself back. Um, so I’m just thinking, I want us to think about this, um, let it not just be another loss in the book? But uh we think of people when it comes to making things like this and also um as a taxpayer

01:30:47,500	I want my money to go to uh. Making people feel better than just opening another juice for a community member. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hello, good evening. Good evening. Um, my name is Valerie Scatos, um. My family used to be homeless for 7 months last year and it was really abrupt.

01:31:36,700	Luckily we were only on the county waiting list for housing for 8 months, so. Um, that first. Few weeks we were homeless and we were camping. Um, We were seeing it sibly, which sounds nice. I know in the summer, but it does come up to quite a bit.

01:32:02,230	Um, one thing a lot of people don’t understand is how expensive it is to be homeless. Um, we were able to get into the United Way shelter. Um, and luckily we were able to keep pulling enough means together so that we could get a shell, a storage unit for our stuff, um.

01:32:22,930	We did still have quite a lot of stuff in our car, which people would like. That was crazy, but, um, after a while I realized that that was kind of the norm, so. In addressing our own housing rising risks here. I think that it should be unique to our own community. Um, this ordinance really only holds the unhoused accountable for living in survival mode.

01:32:47,700	A real issue in our community right now are the predatory landlord practices. And where there’s accountability. For them, our current laws lack the ability to hold landlords accountable in their role in perpetuating homelessness. And recent weeks, I know of an entire family.

01:33:13,870	Who were forced to do nothing else to be put in a position to live in their little tiny car and this family is about 6 people strong, so. Um. This was a direct action from an out of state landlord. Who had no care or thought of this family. Um, and the stress of living.

01:33:37,430	On the streets, did cause them to freeze for a few nights in the car with small children. And um one of the young indigenous women who do live with that family. She ended up having a miscarriage. So, excuse me for getting a little shaky. It was um. A terrible, terrible thing that happened. So Bismarck is smarter than following what other cities are doing.

01:34:05,700	We have elected officials such as you who are trusted to make decisions that are best for all of our community members. Trusted to protect everyone in our community, including our own health community members. Hello me, that’s all I have to say. Mr. Connelly.

01:34:31,930	Since we’re talking about an ordinance and I’m gonna go off a little bit, um, um, from that, from what she mentioned because I think it’s important because it’s one of the drivers for this issue. So I don’t know if the context would be a point of order or just stated, but when we talk about the predatory practices of out of state companies.

01:34:51,730	It’s come across this table and I’ve been pretty um forward about it, um. We need more people standing up and having part of this conversation because the state legislatures passed two laws and we’re not finding people that are willing to enforce them when um colonial estates was taken over in 2017. They bought it above market value.

01:35:13,970	The lot rent was around that 230, 235 area, and with fees they’re above 700. A lot of these folks are the ones that work in our McDonald’s or our Walmart’s where we want uh better price of goods and those type of things.

01:35:32,130	Well, if their cost of living goes up so high then um all the businesses have to raise the rates and we create a cycle that furthers that hardship, um, our sister city right now, um, well, uh the uh colonial estates, they came in with a 37 to 38 page um.

01:35:51,430	Lease That was, um, a lot of it was not legal in here, and I think they do it on purpose because people are exhausted, they knock it down to a 7, 8-page lease, then we get the next investment company, um, across the river, we’re seeing some 40 page plus leases and things, so we need more people speaking up and advocating because it’s creating a lot of hardship for the dignity of all our citizens. So I appreciate you bringing it up. Go ahead.

01:36:14,830	OK, hello, my name is Ashley Johnner. Um, and I guess, uh, direct concern about the ordinance specifically is, um, who is being held accountable. So the picture that was circulated was living room furniture, um, I believe unfair. And how did it get there? Um, when we often see individuals in our community on the streets of backpack is. A heavy load.

01:36:42,570	So I’m not sure the last time we saw someone carrying a coffee table or uh one of those heavy office furniture pieces of equipment that were sitting there.

01:37:07,270	So my concern is this who who put that furniture there? Are we holding the correct people accountable? Is it guilt by association that an unhoused individual is then sitting in furniture that was maybe dumped by someone with a pickup. Um, who had furniture to get rid of and if law enforcement is not seen who dumped that piece of furniture, then how are we holding the correct people accountable for those pieces of living room furniture on our streets.

01:37:31,970	It feels like the most vulnerable in our community are the ones who are taking on this burden and being held accountable. That’s all. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Mickey Shilly. I have a couple of things, um, first, I’d like to question the timing of this. I mean, winter is coming.

01:38:05,370	And you, you’re talking about leaving things on the street or encampments, which is shelter. Winter is coming, this could prove to be fatal to some people, I mean. We have homeless shelters, they’re full, um, you have to be sober, not all these people are sober. These are the most vulnerable population in our community.

01:38:29,470	Um, maybe they only have a chance to a sleeping bag to keep from freezing to death, but you want them to move on, where are they gonna go? Um, I do believe this ordinance is criminalizing the homeless. I mean, what is this so-called tool that law enforcement will utilize? Law enforcement can get involved in criminal activity, not civil. And this proposed ordinance, number 6.

01:38:54,430	Under mitigation, it states upon conviction for a violation or to any other factors deemed appropriate by the court. How is this not criminalizing the homeless? Stacking charges on individuals are only or who are unhoused, only extends the length of the homelessness. Adding additional charges to the unhoused individuals make our landlords look unfavorably towards them.

01:39:16,230	Sometimes it even bars them from low income housing. And adds an additional financial burden when they’re owing to the city for their fines and freeze and creates more barriers for these individuals to create stable housing. In Grants Pass, Oregon, the unhoused population can be fined up to 52 times once a week. A fine attached to their law.

01:39:41,070	Um, Or their enforcements tool, quote. It’s a charge of $300. A woman living in Grants Pass recently shared that she was charged 30 times in the last year for living outside. That totals $9000 that she now owes the city while she is trying to save for her own apartment.

01:40:01,670	So there’s so-called tool is not a solution to a crisis situation, it is the opposite. It is going to make it more difficult to obtain housing for our vulnerable population and our community. And again, I don’t wonder why. This is the first thing to come up. Why are we not criminalizing the egregious acts of our landlords that are creating these homelessness.

01:40:23,570	I mean, we’re talking a vulnerable patient um population these are human beings. These are also your constituents. Um, so you can act because a certain part of your population is uncomfortable seeing things.

01:40:47,670	Um, Where are they gonna go? Are they gonna walk to the outskirts of town, are they gonna, you know, are they getting confiscate their shelter? The sleeping bags, what’s gonna happen? Why are we putting this into place before we have resources for them. I would also like to add. People seem to think that homeless people. Our drug dealers are mentally ill. I am currently homeless. I have been homeless since June. My house I was renting was bought.

01:41:09,530	And sold, it was bought. And torn down to build a law firm. Um, I have a husband who has a unfortunately has a record that’s been over 20 years. They’re still holding it against him. We have animals.

01:41:27,600	Um, 3 years ago I was in an auto accident, unable to work for about a year, unable to walk for about a year, so my credit rating is not bad, it’s just non-existent because I haven’t used it in 3 years. Since June, we have been looking, we are 2. We have 2 adults in the household working both full time and part time.

01:41:46,370	We both have several jobs, um, I am lucky enough to work in a hotel. Who has me for most of the summer. I mean, I was able to pay almost over 4, almost $4000 a month to live in that hotel. But our aerial landlords aren’t going to give me a chance to pay you $100 for an apartment. So, I mean, I would like to see more emphasis.

01:42:05,000	Regulating our landlords who are not being held accountable for anything at this moment. Then criminalizing the people who are vulnerable. Thank you. Thank you. This is probably Hearing anyone else. Hi, Mayor, Comm., my name is Susan Wyant. I’m a property owner and a business owner in downtown Bismarck. What I have witnessed.

01:42:43,600	I have seen individuals passed out on the sidewalk and on our benches. I’ve seen dirty needles left on the sidewalk. I’ve seen public drinking sitting on bench, what I was seeing public drinking, they’re sitting on the benches and also walking holding their bottle. I have been approached for money, for cigarettes, for drugs.

01:43:04,030	I also at one time had a man run up to me. As he was holding his cell phone, he’s screaming at me, asking me, give me your phone, give me your phone. I have to call the cops. I have to call the cops. I was in the process of going into my apartment at the time. I walked away and told him to leave.

01:43:22,470	Um, I’ve also seen people. Sitting on the edge of the cement downtown. Relieving himself. Squatting Did you know that years ago there was also a porta potty downtown for the homeless. G Didn’t take long, and it was vandalized and it was removed. It is not that I don’t care about the homeless. I do.

01:43:48,100	But I also care more about my family, my city, and the downtown area. Thank you. This is public hearing anyone else wishing to speak, please come forward. Sorry. My name is Cindy Midinger. I have lived in the city of Bismarck for almost my whole entire life, which is 70+ years.

01:44:29,730	When I was a girl, My girlfriends and I could walk down to them. On a Saturday. We would leave our house at 8:30 in the morning. We would spend the whole Saturday downtown. We never had a problem. Now I can’t go shopping. And I have to worry about. People asking me for money, asking me for food. They are laying on the boulevards.

01:44:57,500	I mean, I understand people have Problems we need to solve it, but I see part of the solution. To this problem. The people that are asking for help need to have some skin in the game. If you don’t have any skin in the game, you don’t care.

01:45:18,970	I drove by Walmart South 2 weeks ago and that Bus shelter that was sit that sits there was totally filled with garbage. Um, Paper from Burger King, McDonald’s, whatever, pop bottles, you name it. Um, Blankets and everything. I don’t think we. I don’t want my city to look like San Diego, Chicago, Seattle, San Diego, I guess it’s.

01:45:53,600	I guess I said that already, but anyway, that’s, that’s my problem. If people are homeless, we need to help them find a job so they can have some self-worth and put some skin in the game, not just always give, give, give, because if you keep giving. They keep expecting that.

01:46:14,900	Let’s fix the problem so that they can be a productive member of our society and pay taxes to boot. That’s my story. Thank you very much. Thank you. So Mhm Uh, good evening, everybody here. Um, and everyone that came to offer their uh opinions and and heart to the matter here, everybody that came up and spoke.

01:47:16,770	And everybody that they represent whether they represent somebody they know, um, their business or community. Thank you everybody for coming. My name is Corey, Corey Anni and uh I right now I’m coming just as a community member, um, with a little bit of. Um, Experience, so working with our homeless population.

01:47:38,770	I can’t say where I work, but I do work directly with our homeless population, um, um, the ones out of a lockup that are in recovery, um, as a care coordinator and a peer support specialist.

01:47:59,630	And, and that’s a very complex situation, very messy, and it’s not very clear and it’s very difficult to um solve, you know, it’s like like what we’ve been hearing is it’s ongoing thing for years and years, and I do commend everybody that has, um, put. Their efforts and created things for our communities, you know, like, like David over at Soup Cafe.

01:48:15,570	I got an opportunity to meet him and have a conversation with him one day and he inspired me to be a better person, a better man and see his, his, uh, heart, you know, and and I appreciate you for spending time with me that day you know the creator of the the organizers of people who put together the United way, uh, people that work at, you know, even like the ministry, they put, they have a tough, tough situation, a tough, um. Uh, um.

01:48:33,170	A tough Situation uh as a person, a person that wants to help the community person that wants to help as a a person of, of, of God or you know whatever drives them to help other people in these situations it’s very difficult. It’s very difficult to see and I understand.

01:48:56,730	I I’ll just speak on behalf of, of, of our, of our homeless, you know, something kind of came to mind as I was hearing things, you know, I know that the, the, the ordinance that we’re talking about is ordered ordered as in such a way that kind of like sort of.

01:49:13,400	Takes the homeless conversation out of it a little bit, and I feel like sometimes uh the homeless situation uh in any other, uh. Um, worded in any other way is still a homeless situation that we we need to address, um. And I just wanted to speak on behalf of the, the homeless, you know, when you talk about skin in the game, for example.

01:49:37,770	Um, they all have their stories and I just happen to be one that that hears a few, a few 100 of their stories in the past few years. And it’s very complex for them too, and it’s not as easy as getting a job or giving them a job or giving them a place, you know, there’s a barriers they

01:49:51,270	face, the barriers they have, whether it’s um and one of the barriers that that that is common is the mental health part and mental health component and even the gentleman here that that he recorded, you know, this man that was yelling at him.

01:50:08,200	I recognized that man, you know, and, and he’s uh mental health, very severe mental health challenges and I have been I yelled at me a few times and you know, and I didn’t really know how to handle them until I was trained, you know, until I was trained to handle a person with mental health challenges, uh, going through the training specifically.

01:50:24,100	And so it helped me do my job a little bit better. But the thing about the the homeless is it’s, it’s not as simple as giving them a job or a place to live, you know, they go their barriers there, they have records and things and in in in the way of uh uh what we would look at as a

01:50:37,570	successful life. A lot of them, um, been, been there for months. I’ve I’ve, I’ve worked with people that have been homeless for days and homeless for 8 years and um there’s their stories are very complex and messy, um, but my heart goes out to to all of them and and.

01:50:55,830	I just want to take in consideration that, you know, um, I’m sorry for everyone who has had to deal with somebody in a negative way, um, that that’s been homeless out there in our communities, man, they’ve just been through so much and a lot of them, like I said, have mental health challenges that they’re not, they’re not, they don’t have

01:51:09,630	that, they didn’t haven’t had the the help or ongoing help, you know, those of us providers in the community, we, we, we do what we can we get them housed, we get them maybe into counseling, we get them into treatment, you know, and, and there’s a kind of a cycle with that that we have to deal with

01:51:23,070	as a whole, a whole community. It’s very difficult, but I commend everyone for trying um to hear that, that, that has a voice for them, for the people here. Um, Uh, I, I’ll say that much.

01:51:38,600	I, I just came to maybe say a few words on behalf of our homeless people, you know, my prayers go out to them and, you know, my, my daily work is with them and hopefully I can make some kind of difference uh for them. Sometimes I, I don’t. But we try, we try our best, we try our best to address every situation that we’ve talked about here, homelessness, addictions, mental health challenges.

01:51:56,700	There are people out there that are doing it and if anyone’s here that’s doing it, you know, keep doing it. Thank you. Comm. Connelly. Can you just state your first name again? Uh, Corey, K O R Y. OK. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Thanks for your time. Mmh. Good evening, Mayor commissioners. My name is Cheryl Carey.

01:52:35,230	I’m the executive director of the Sacred Pipe Resource Center here in Bismarck, we see we serve the uh Native American population. And uh just wanna say I’m very proud of uh our community for getting up here and speaking about these issues that are very dear to them.

01:52:55,830	We have uh the sacred Pipe Resource Center Housing Council that addresses issues of housing in the city of Bismarck and Mandan, and I think um. All of their information that they’re bringing to you is very valuable. I hope you really take it in the spirit, the helpful spirit with which it’s intended.

01:53:16,800	And looking at this ordinance, um, I can’t help but think about that saying when you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And um in the intro, uh, to the session. The phrase was, we’ve addressed many complaints from property owners, homeowners, business owners. All owners. So If Enough homeless people get together and complain about the need for affordable housing.

01:53:48,170	Would be able to get that? Just asking Um, but what I’d really like to say is I’m, I’m really asking you guys to go back to the drawing board on this ordinance. Um, it’s hard as it is to see homelessness, it’s even harder to be homeless. And there are no easy solutions. We get that. But this ordinance is not a solution.

01:54:09,970	At best, it’s just another way to burden and already burdened law enforcement and nonprofit organizations. At worst, it just adds another cog in the wheel of chronic homelessness. And you have to ask yourself this question, why do so many so-called homeless solutions never include actual lack of housing. And then you just have to stop being the hammer. Thank you. Thank you.

01:54:43,970	It’s public hearing anyone else. Thank you for hearing us all out. I am Renee Nelson. I live in the neighborhood. Um, I welcome you to drive up 24th Street and see what this encampment is. I have yet to see a tent. I have seen. Office chairs.

01:55:15,330	Loaded up with their belongings, I have seen shopping carts loaded up with their belongings. I have seen plastic Adirondack chairs. With their belongings or for them to sit on during the day so they can be comfortable waiting for a ministry on the margins to open. It’s convenient when ministry on the margins first opened, that all these people were on their sidewalk.

01:55:42,430	But now they have no trespassing signs around their building, so they’re over on the boulevard and sidewalk of the Mark 5 motel. And making things even worse. They don’t care about themselves when they walk across the street. They go to Turtle’s Pace, where a snails pace. They’re in no hurry. They don’t care if there are cars coming.

01:56:07,500	If they’re 1 car, 5 cars, they just walk across the street. We teach our children to look before you cross the street, not just go. And to hurry up if there’s a car coming that you need. I am, I have called law enforcement several times about several different things going on down in that area. There’s been cars parked down there for days.

01:56:32,030	With their hoods open, their trunks open, their doors open, people living in them. This summer. It is I can have empathy for some things. But when I see the same people. In the same positions in the same location. Every day 3 or 4 times that I drive by there every day.

01:56:59,770	No matter what the day is. My empathy kind of goes out the door. Thank you. Might I add just a little bit of data to this discussion. After homeless men asked me to find a better way for them to live, and I started on this. I started looking into. When was homelessness first documented here? 1640.

01:57:55,830	There wasn’t even a nation called America yet. 1640, that’s 384 years and counting. The system generally comes. In as the instigator. In all the data I have found and I have a 32 gig flash drive that is 2/3 full right now.

01:58:22,130	With data I’m not gonna inundate you with it, but I’ve got it if you ever want to see any of it. And um So again, I say I think it would be much premature. To try to vote this ordinance in tonight. It needs a lot more study, even after 384 years. And Since Um, the 19. 70s, 71 I believe it is. Um, The homelessness, um. Statistics have skyrocketed.

01:58:57,300	That was Vietnam. Vietnam was my people’s war, my family. And I think we set some kind of a record since indigenous people enlist oftener than all the other races. We lost 28 people. To Vietnam. And I still have relatives who are homeless. And uh I’m unique in the entire state and I know it.

01:59:23,470	I had 3 corporations. We own land. And I can’t live on it in the winter. So I have to make other arrangements every fall because landlords have said, I don’t know what to do with you. You don’t have a rental history. You only owned property. Uh, excuse me? that would be a plus. Apparently not.

01:59:52,230	And there is nothing in the law state or local that requires accountability for every 30 $40 or $50 background check that the landlords collect money for and there definitely needs to be.

02:00:12,500	Because many of them just take the money and stick it in their pocket and they flip a coin or decide whether or not they want you. And being as I walk with a pipe. I live on of our personal poverty. So the companies get all the money I bring in. But I don’t have a credit score. And I haven’t had for 33 years. Does that make me homeless? No, does that make me mental? No.

02:00:36,030	Does that make me in any way, shape or form, bad. Or a criminal? No. Makes me unique, makes me dedicated, makes me hard driving, makes me quite willing to go where most people aren’t willing to even think about going alone going. And I’m I don’t care if I’m the only one in my parade.

02:00:59,100	But you need to know that these things happen. I know people from the shelter system. Who are there because of crushing medical debts. The worst case is a man I know who was a successful rancher. And had to sell everything and he’s still living. In one of the shelters in Bismarck. And he’ll be there until he dies.

02:01:20,370	But he’s not the only one. So please give this a lot more work before you pass it. And again, I’m always available to help. Thank you so much. Have a great night. Comm. Connelly. Do My name is Cammy Zenker, and I am the owner of the Mark 5 studio apartments.

02:01:58,730	Um, so I appreciate the words of Renee, um, describing our business. We, my husband and I have owned this business for almost 17 years. It has been in our Zenker family for over 40 years, um, and I think people forget at the end of the day that this is a home, uh, this used to be my home. Where I brought my first child home.

02:02:17,970	And it is no longer. A safe Clean environment on the outside of my building. People leaving their furniture, their garbage, their blankets, smoking, drinking, no respect for quiet hours, for tenants that I have that pay rent, that work normal Perkins jobs that are just trying to make it in this world too.

02:02:46,500	And they’ve tried to go out nicely and ask them to stop with their screaming and their yelling and they’re cussing and what it results in is I’ve been calling the Bismarck PD almost 2 to 34 times a week because of these issues.

02:03:09,770	I had an issue today of dumpster diving that my husband and I witnessed while we were there picking up garbage. I have had where I am picking up office chairs. And it’s taken two people to get it into the dumpster for 12 hours later to have. A homeless person, come dig it out of my dumpster and continue to roll it down the street and fill their garbage on it.

02:03:30,700	Sunday evening, I received a call from a tenant about 7:30 at night. I had a gentleman and a lady that were fighting in our dumpster. They were literally digging. Clothing, furniture, going through my tenant’s trash, had it all over the alley. I had to call the police and they had to come and intervene with that.

02:03:51,770	And I could go on and on about the things that we have done. We have, um, Be landlords that do not charge an application fee for those of you, we have been, uh, landlords that have rented. I have a couple tenants that were homeless at one time. Um, But you got to start somewhere.

02:04:14,900	And you’ve got to have that motivation to want to start somewhere. And so, um, I’m just asking that this ordinance be passed and that it be the first step in a process that, um, we do need some more community resources, but what we’re doing right now is not working and the problem is getting much worse.

02:04:38,100	And That’s all I have to say. So I appreciate your time, Comm. Risch. Where’s your property located again? We are located on the corner of 24th and Broadway, 2316 East Broadway Avenue. We have the higher quest behind us.

02:05:00,300	We have ministry on the margins across from us, um, and like somebody stated earlier, we never had this issue and I was wondering why are they not hanging out on their yard because they’re hanging out on mine and they’re not showing any respect. I’ve had maybe 1 or 2 homeless people come help me pick up garbage. And I shouldn’t have to do that every day after I’m done working my full-time job.

02:05:18,630	I’ve even had to have my children witness people that are belligerent and not acting appropriately because on our way home from school, we have to stop by the Mark 5 to make sure it looks safe, it looks clean. I have tenants that have been there almost 20 years. This is not fair to them.

02:05:41,370	Not fair at all. It is not a safe home environment anymore. So thank you. Comm. Conley, did you? Yeah. I appreciate the testimony you shared when we talk about the predatory landowners.

02:06:08,030	Some of the companies, the investment companies, it’s about making high dollar amounts, 17 to 23% and they’re driving up the rates and every single time a property is sold, the value of the property throughout the entire city goes up. And when that property goes up, they’re pricing out the local owners, the single family owners that care about the community, the people, the worst I’ve seen is a company out of Washington State. And they’re so aggressive that um.

02:06:30,630	It’s absolutely devastating the local owner cause they can’t keep up. They don’t have a choice but to raise their rents because they have to cover costs so they lose their property too.

02:06:48,100	It’s a vicious cycle that we need to get ahead of and we are in a position to where there’s very few local landowners, not all local landowners are perfect and some of them are. Um, Bordered on Ngurate too, but there are some really good ones out there too. These corporate companies from Utah, from Florida, from um Washington State. Uh, they are upsetting our apple cart and um. Been working at both the state and local level.

02:07:11,100	It every state in the country is chasing it. So I appreciate what you’re saying, it’s just a big lift, so we’re trying to get there. I know, and I agree with, you know, all that about the landlords, but not every landlord out there is a bad person, you know, I consider myself a very good person that

02:07:28,200	works with BTC, worked with people that are have been homeless. I do what I can to help them, but they gotta have that motivation. They got to have that drive. To want to better themselves because I can’t do all the work for them.

02:07:48,900	just real quick just to expand on that, obviously, you could tell that. Cammy had the same last name as I did. It’s a family business, but I’m not part of that that family, so full disclosure. I’m sure you did, yeah. Um, one other thing, if we could just leave the, the landlord conversation out of the, out of the testimony.

02:08:06,100	I mean, let us, we can have that discussion maybe when we get to the, to discussion after the motion or whatever, but let’s just stay focused on the ordinance if we could, please. Thank you, Comm.. I, uh, my name is Josh Kimmelly. I, uh, I work downtown and I live downtown and I would like to second.

02:08:31,170	What this last lady just got done saying I see a lot of the, the drugs, the booze, the, the handguns, the uh. The belligerence and not all of them, not everybody who’s down there or in camping downtown, but, but you do see it and I’m in favor of some kind of legal action that would.

02:08:54,830	Help the police facilitate maintaining order and uh. Making it civil downtown so that people feel comfortable, they feel safe. It’s inviting to come down there, walk around to eat, to shop, and uh right now you’re hearing more and more complaints from people who don’t feel safe. They don’t like the aggressive panhandling.

02:09:17,600	They don’t like the look of the, of what’s going on. There’s garbage everywhere and I’m not sure that this. This new ordinance would solve all of our problems, but if it will help the police maintain some order. I’m personally in favor of it and that’s all I really have to say. Thank you. Thanks. This is a public hearing.

02:10:08,230	Anyone else wish to speak? Transplskowski. And interiors by France. Ands by design. And I’d just like to say that I was in a neighborhood since 1968. Anywhere from starting at six to interiors by Florence to interiors by France now. Uh, interiors by design and it’s really a sad sight of our city. Has let it slide from 1968.

02:10:39,900	To what it is today. And the value of the land, the value of the buildings, real estate. It all slid backwards. And I mean, I’m just wondering, is there a plan in place? What do we plan to do in the future? Who is going to be the leadership of taking care of this issue? I would

02:11:03,870	like to have some answers and Joel Hyman is also I value his when he spoke about it. As to what his thoughts were, I agree 100%. And I don’t know if any of you people uh own any of the property in that neighborhood of downtown.

02:11:28,600	But it would be very handy if you would buy some down there. I’ve got some for sale. Thank you. In this public hearing anyone else who wish to speak? I’ll give a second call for public comment. Final call for public comment. I see no more public comments, so I’m gonna close the public comment, um, but Jason, would you? At this point in time, probably read Comm.

02:12:26,830	Cleary’s comments so that it’s out for the rest of us. Again, Mayor and commissioners, those in the audience, uh, these are the remarks of Comm. Anne Cleary, who was not able to participate in the meeting tonight.

02:12:48,500	As mayor and commissioners, understanding that I’m not able to be present, I wanted to share my thoughts on the encampment ordinance for the public hearing. I understand that this ordinance is a tool for the police to use and is necessary in some scenarios. Being a downtown business owner myself, I do see how any makeshift housing or encampments has a negative effect on the commercial tenants and buildings.

02:13:07,230	I do not think That to be effective in its implementation, there will be other steps. I, I do think that to be effective in its implementation, there will be other steps that we need to follow it. From a public health perspective, keep in mind, Comm., uh, Cleary holds the public health portfolio.

02:13:29,170	From a public health perspective, we have seen other cities implement similar ordinances, and I am going to use Fargo as my example. Within Fargo’s implementation of their ordinance, they have an outreach team that assists officers or sometimes responds to these complaints first to be To best help connect the individual to services or housing when at all possible.

02:13:49,370	So that we aren’t simply enforcing the ordinance, but not having anywhere for that individual to go. Though the police force in Bismarck does have a connection with West Central Human Services that they will utilize, I do think that strengthening that connection or even creating some version of an outreach team will be necessary.

02:14:07,170	I think we should view this ordinance as one step towards creating better solutions for the unhoused individuals in our community. If passed, I would like to see a more collaborative, I excuse me, I would like to see more collaborative conversations with our community partners on what the next steps will be.

02:14:24,500	After attending the most recent board meeting with the Missouri Valley Coalition for Homeless People. I do think there are some unanswered questions from the providers and caregivers when it comes to this ordinance. I do support the ordinance as a step in addressing these issues, but as a community that relies heavily on the nonprofit organizations who make up the Homeless Coalition.

02:14:42,930	I do think addressing their concerns should be a priority. It is my hope that those concerns and questions. Get addressed at this public hearing or at the public or That the public hearing is continued to help work on addressing additional concerns. Anne Cleary, City Comm.. Thank you. Comm. thoughts, comments. Comm. Risch. Uh, Mr. Mayor, Comm.

02:15:11,700	, I, I’ve got a couple of questions, uh, um, maybe the city attorney or Jason could answer or maybe someone. OK. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, Reverend Digg mentioned that she thought it was inappropriate that they have the language in park bench or any other publicly owned property are under the Weider Bridge.

02:15:38,870	And I think the implication was if there’s no place for these people to to to sleep or whatever, but when I read the ordinance, it talks about campsites, not so much sleeping overnight. Could you maybe clarify that? Mayor Comm., Comm. Risch, that’s correct.

02:16:02,330	So the sleeping portion of it is a separate item, and that is solely about basically ingress, egress, sleeping in doorways, for instance, the Provident building, there was some of that blocking doors that come out at the events. or businesses. So that’s the only area where sleeping is prohibited, is those types of things. So if you’re on a bench. You’re not blocking access.

02:16:26,270	If you take up the whole sidewalk, you’re blocking access and that’s where that problem would be with sleeping. So, uh, there’s no, and there would be no problem with sleeping there will be no. Enforceable issue was sleeping under the bridge with this ordinance that Isn’t prohibited. It would only be if the acclimation of property qualifies as a campsite.

02:16:52,600	So it’s different, um, and then it also provides for a way to handle that property that’s. Kind of Set out for law enforcement too. Comm. Risch, yes, another one of the witnesses talked about fines of $300 a week in the films are outrageous. Somebody’s got $9000 worth of fines, um, building up. I didn’t see anything in this proposed ordinance about fining anybody. Can you clarify, Mayor, commissioners, Comm.

02:17:18,100	Rich, so we don’t have jurisdiction to find that much as it is now that. If someone is indigent, typically they wouldn’t have that type of fine. Perhaps that’s a restitution amount or something, or it could be county charges or federal charges, I don’t know, but it wouldn’t be a municipal court.

02:17:38,430	We cannot charge more than $1500 is the max fine for any type of violation that we can charge. That’s the limit of our jurisdiction. And your limit for any type of enforcement. This is, uh, something that would be Classified as a class B misdemeanor, but along with that comes some protections for being able to be provided indigent defense counsel.

02:18:03,030	And if it was an infraction, it would just be fines and for folks that’s probably In this circumstance, not appropriate, um. Just because something’s a class B misdemeanor. There are a lot of ours that are standard offers are 100 or $150 fine. That’s Very common.

02:18:28,500	But there are some extra protections for the defendant that come with having a Class B misdemeanor. So I think I answered your question, but maybe I didn’t violating this ordinance would be a Class B misdemeanor, and you could find them up to $1500. People that don’t have any money to begin with. Yeah, and we don’t do that. I, I don’t even see that very often.

02:18:46,170	Like I said, the max is 1500. We rarely do that. For law enforcement, it’s more about being able to get individuals to comply. If we don’t have the ability to be a Class B misdemeanor. It limits the options for the law enforcement officer to try to get compliance. So that’s also a component to this.

02:19:05,900	Um, and I’m sure the chief for DC would be able to explain that better as well, but that’s, they always try to get compliance before we have to go to the route of Charging somebody. Any other questions? Comm. Connelly. I do think it needs work. I think we do need to Have an ordinance of some type, um.

02:19:40,170	States that are much more progressive than North Dakota. are seeing an overrunning of every service availability that they have. And. They’re taking steps that we think are way too aggressive, so if we’re not thoughtful, We have to be thoughtful to the people. The challenge is is that if we don’t start instilling something.

02:20:07,770	Folks are going to go to the communities that don’t have ordinances. And that’s gonna be a huge challenge because. We’re trying to keep up with people that are here. Let alone if we get a lot of influx from outside and if anybody hasn’t noticed, we, we have a bipolar weather system.

02:20:30,300	All the time here, um, maybe not quite as bad as the people we pray for down in Florida, but there are times it’s significant. So I do think that at the same time, um. I didn’t write down the name. I should have, um, but the, uh. Gal that said the first documented in North Dakota was 1640.

02:20:58,030	Throughout history, we’ve always had unsustainable needs in the areas of homelessness we’ve had things that there will always be a greater need than the resources available. At the same time, I, when a person said skin in the game, just the very fact that we’re living. Just the very fact that we all have skin, that’s skin in the game. There’s.

02:21:18,300	Good and bad consequences to all of us and If we ever get to the point where we’re showing contempt that one person doesn’t have dignity over another. We’re on a very slippery slope that makes us question our humanity.

02:21:45,670	And at the same time, I’ve um had discussions with people to where, um, there’s Coveting gets us in trouble to where we desire the resources that another person has to the point of demanding. This goes beyond party or um where people’s stances are and things. This comes down to human decency. We got to get past that.

02:22:10,600	And there’s always significant costs that go with this at the table here we run into a challenge that’s called a quorum, and that’s why we have portfolios, so there’s only certain people that um can have conversation, that’s how the law is written, um, it creates a little bit. Of a nuance. It’s hard, um. But cost.

02:22:39,030	is a big question, and then where do they go? And I’ve talked to a significant amount of people in the last two weeks and um working on some things to where there would be no cost from the government’s standpoint, because once we start going down there, it’s unsustainable and we just end up in a rabbit hole. Our budget’s $370 million.

02:22:58,770	There’s a lot of people with property that are also starting to feel crushed and um It’s a hard thing, um, so I would make a motion to table this until November 12th. And so we can have further discussions. I know Comm.

02:23:23,870	Cleary, her portfolio is the Homeless Coalition and some of those discussions are going to have costs with it, so, um, as we navigate it, um, you can talk to 2, yeah, um, this is the quorum thing. You can’t talk to 3, otherwise we have a serial type meeting if. Janelle can explain that a little bit better. Um, And that, but There’s a lot more, but, uh, I’ll stop there. It’s like a motion I’ll second for discussion.

02:24:02,700	OK, go ahead if I may, Mayor, I got a few things that I’d like to kind of address to as I had questions that went down the absolutely so first of all, I’ll start off with the gentleman Corey, who said this is complicated and messy. I absolutely agree with him. Um, and we really can’t.

02:24:22,530	If you want to make it more complicated and messy, just just let government add more ordinances. Right, I mean. It’s not just a simple humanity effort that needs to happen and, and I talked to a senator about this. Um, a while back and, and he’s absolutely right that this is a this is a people issue.

02:24:42,770	And the easiest way to solve it, not the easiest way, the, the most. Um, compassionate way to solve it is with people. Maybe, maybe government can be a facilitator, but you don’t want government to run it. So with that being said, um, I just got a question because it came up on the the stakeholders.

02:25:06,830	What stakeholders, obviously the Missouri Valley Coalition wasn’t, um, part of it because they already put a letter out there, but who from staff can answer what stakeholders you talk to about this ordinance? You you notice I said who I didn’t personally put somebody on the spot. Thank you, Chief. Sure, Mayor commissioners. So As Jason said when when this thing started, we just didn’t.

02:25:33,030	You know, just decide one day we’re going to do this. So Renee and her team and us from a police department before we did anything, we got ourselves on the same page, make sure that We have the, uh, right plan to do things. After that, um.

02:25:55,600	Jason was visiting Jason at DC Steubenmeyer was visiting with Lyndon Ring from West Central Human Services, as they would be the service providers we would contact. Uh, reason we would have to contact them is they actually have people that will go out and visit with the people if we call them. My friend Ashley over here, I don’t know if she’s still here.

02:26:11,430	She used to do the outreach, but she no longer works throughout um, West Central, but she and uh Excuse me. A lady from Minister on the margins that they did that and they were having some success, but no, as far as I know, nobody’s doing that right now unless they get called, so.

02:26:30,700	That’s our only resource that I know of that we can call to come and get, go talk to people. OK, thank you. So when, when they were doing that and if, um, I don’t want to put you on the spot for dates or anything, but um.

02:26:47,230	You said that they were successful when they were doing or they were having some success. What, what, um, Why did it stop? Did they just not have volunteers, no resources, or not exactly sure why it stopped. That’s fair. That’s fair. OK. All right, um, the other thing that I would, I would address is this, there are issues with landlords. I’m good, Chief. Thanks.

02:27:09,500	Thank you, sir. Um, but that’s not part of this ordinance, and that’s, that’s a much bigger, um, lift than, than what we can do personally, if we just did it within the city of Bismarck, it would, it would complicate things even more if, if the state wants to take that on.

02:27:29,370	Or you know, above that, maybe I don’t know, but for us to put limitations on, um, what people can do with their business. I don’t think that is justifiable at this table. Um, if you want to lead that charge and do it, um, have at it. Um, the last thing I’ll say is. Everybody that was here.

02:27:48,230	Um, and I appreciate this and I kind of summarize this is not everybody’s looking for a handout. We have to look for a hand up and all of those stakeholders that were mentioned tonight, Ministry on the margins, Missouri Valley Coalition, United Way, the soup kitchen. The um.

02:28:10,600	West Central services, to be honest with you, from a a commission perspective, we’re looking for your help. We really are, um, because of my first comment that if that if I got to get involved and make decisions for this from a government perspective. I’m gonna make it too messy and too complicated. And I just, I just hope that.

02:28:30,170	This group That you can, you can come together, um, as Jason said earlier, from what it was started under previous, uh, mayor that we just. We just get it done. So to speak, without anything, no hugs and kisses, just roll up the sleeves and let’s get it done. So with that, it’s all I got. Thank you. Comm. Connelly.

02:28:52,800	Commissioner’s Zencher, I don’t disagree with a lot of what you shared in things. The reason why I did bring up the landlord process though. I’ve been an advocate for this since 2017. There’s a lot of years. There’s a lot of discussion been going on at the state level.

02:29:09,200	There’s been a lot of people, and this is every state’s trying to get ahead of this in 2021, um, Uh, a mobile home park that was privately owned here came up in front of our board of Equalization, and they asked for an abatement because it’s a pass-through cost and they didn’t get it, so they passed the cost on to the people living in the park, and it was

02:29:31,630	a $1000 plus. The following year, it was another 1 million. Now that particular park is owned by a corporate company. There’s two legislative sessions to where laws have been Pa to help us at the city table, get ahead of some of these things that’s driving the homeless net rate.

02:29:55,200	We’re up 26% over the last four years, and we’re not finding the people willing to enforce those state laws, and if they’re not willing to enforce the fact that we record our meetings to where other people can see, like you said, we need help, we need help from the community. We need help from the state.

02:30:12,170	I would kind of like to see if Bismarck, if not North Dakota, was the. to get ahead of this very difficult conversation over the rest of the United States. It would be a nice thing for the very people that are here that live here, that grew up here. So That’s why I took those moments.

02:30:27,200	I try not to overwhelm you with information, you know, I got a lot of information, but People are feeling unheard, so I took those little snippets to take that time. Um, But I, I agree with a lot of what you said that, but that’s why the landlord conversation came in, um. Yeah, I’ll stop there. Other comments? Comm. Risch, Mr.

02:30:55,200	Mayor, Commissioners, uh, this proposed ordinance doesn’t solve the homelessness problem. We’ve got Renee Mok with the Bismarck Burley, uh, County Health um that’s working on a bigger, bigger process ongoing, but it is a first step because we have some egregious stuff taking place out there.

02:31:15,030	We need to give the police some sort of tools to deal with some of the, uh, the bigger problems of campsites or chairs and sofas and all kinds of stuff all over this community. I’ve got a friend that doesn’t want to stay downtown anymore because she’s afraid of going out at night, so we need to give the police some, some, some tools to do this, and I’m a compassionate person.

02:31:32,670	I, I think we’ve got to invest in this as a city or the state should invest in it. It’s really a statewide problem because the other communities don’t provide the services like we have here in Bismarck and for those watching on TV, it’s not the city that’s providing the service.

02:31:51,430	It’s these very compassionate nonprofits that are providing these services, but, um. So these other cities don’t have any kind of help. Whether it be Manden or Jamestown or Napoleon or New Leipzig, so they come to Bismarck or they come to Fargo. So I look at it as really a state problem we need to have the state involved and engaged in trying to solve this problem.

02:32:06,800	This doesn’t solve homelessness, but it’s a step forward to try and keep our cities safe and clean up some of the more egregious. Problems we have Richard Conley. And that’s why I made the motion for November 12th. I do believe we need to take steps in that direction, um. It’s been 2 weeks.

02:32:28,270	Um, there’s been a lot of discussions had and OK It gives us a chance to see if we can at least get through this winter, cause winters can be harsher, and the question of cost and where do they go and Can we find an answer amongst all of us to take that next step.

02:32:53,270	If we pass an ordinance tonight. One month What, what’s we’ve made it this far without this. I mean, how, how much worse off would we be? All the partners here asked for a little bit of time. The uh Again, as Comm. Rich stated this ordinance is. I know it is affecting individuals who are.

02:33:24,300	It’s affecting their property or potentially where they are resting in there. Uh, head at night so they can’t be in certain spaces. This ordinance is never going to this by itself solving homelessness is not, as Comm. Zinker mentioned, it’s going to be a very difficult lift. I don’t think you want the city government into the, the.

02:33:43,070	The business of solving that, I think we need to be a partner of it and we have had those discussions around the table. There is a major effort that needs to happen. I, you know.

02:33:59,300	Waiting a month, waiting 3 months, I don’t know when the right time is, unfortunately, we have, we have a difficult decision to make at this table. And sometimes we have to make difficult decisions that don’t make everybody happy. That’s part of our job. So I mean, I appreciate everybody’s comments, but that those are just my thoughts. Can I amend the motion? Well, no, no, go ahead, Comm. Zor Mayor, Comm., hang on, Mr.

02:34:21,330	Connelly, just hang on one second. I do, I do got a couple of things that we, I think we could maybe have just a little bit of of conversation about um Comm. Risch brought up the, the park scenario that’s listed in there.

02:34:39,100	Can we, can we put, um, list the park in our ordinances if they already have a board that they might have rules and regulations for their parks. I don’t Like just kind of stay in our lane. I’ll wait for City Attorney Combs to answer that. Mayor, commissioners, Comm. Zenker, we do have overarching as well jurisdiction. So if somebody’s committing an assault in the parks, we have jurisdiction.

02:35:06,670	So, um, we could technically, legally, yes, um, I know there’s been, I, I know PD speaks to Parks on a regular basis. The content, I don’t know because I think I’ve seen signs in the parks that say they have hours or whatever, so.

02:35:20,970	And those those are those are OK that has those are OK that has those are OK that has nothing to do are OK that has nothing to do that. Then the second question that I have, uh, city attorney Combs, if you could stay. We just recently had an ordinance that we had where we kind of gave them 3 strikes, so to speak. Is there a possibility to do that with this ordinance as well.

02:35:36,070	Like if we run into the same person and hey, move your stuff, we come back now, now it’s this, now it’s an option for. Um, Cite him for a violation, I guess.or Commissioners, so this is, uh, yes, we can draft it.

02:35:55,930	I’ll, I’ll draft it however you tell me to draft it, so I can do any of those things, but it’s more of a question for PD preface that before DC gets up there. I understand we’re not, well if this passes tonight or if it passes November 12th or in three months or whatever that we’re not just going to send 14 squad cars out there to look for this, right? This is not a

02:36:13,500	priority by any means, so. I think Go to DC So yeah, I’m Deputy Chief Jason Stelmeyer with the police department, obviously, uh, yeah, we, we wanna be very compassionate with this ordinance. I’ve crafted how I want our officers to proceed with this ordinance.

02:36:38,130	And it’s very important to note that uh there is a 24 hour period, um, that we want to give them, and that’s minimum 24 hours. We’re not going to be there right on the 24th hour and getting them to move along, but we’ve talked with our partners at, um, uh, West Central, they manage, uh, 988, which is a crisis line and a 211, which is more of a, a

02:36:57,330	service provider line where they will go out, explain services, etc. and what they need to do to be. Compliance with the law. So I guess our expectation would be that we don’t really have to enforce this other than going out explaining what the law is, and then, uh, hopefully we don’t have to enforce it, but, um,

02:37:20,170	there, there may be a time that we need to. Um, and obviously with any new law we, uh, want, Educate uh the citizens and individuals affected on it before we go, taking 14 squad cars out there running.

02:37:41,600	And again, this is complaint based, so, um, again, we, we don’t have time to be proactive on it, uh, but if we get a complaint from a citizen, that’s when we would address, uh, this ordinance. Thank you, sir. of it If they if they’re not compliant moving out of the stairway. Yeah, so. Yeah have to Because of a fraction, you can’t make them, they just stay, right.

02:38:07,870	Yeah, OK, so as far as the infraction or B misdemeanor, um, we, we can’t arrest for an infraction. So if we had somebody that was just really failing to comply and we’ve made numerous attempts to get them to move and social services been out there and they’re just refusing.

02:38:28,000	It would be impossible for us to enforce the ordinance because we couldn’t arrest that therefore the, the beat misdemeanor, uh, would have to be in effect for that. So Thank you. Other discussion. Um, OK It’s regarding the parts.

02:39:03,130	OK, yeah, I’ll let you ask we yeah, we, it may not be er it may not be our jurisdiction is the parks the same as the like the national parks. Like, is that kind of the same? No, like I, I mean like how the parks throughout the US, how a Native American can go and use their ID to camp at this campsite or to get into these other places like is General Sibley a park like that? I don’t know the

02:39:22,930	answer to that Mayor and Comm. generalsly is outside city limits, and it falls under Burley County’s. Ownership, but ultimately it’s managed by Bismarck Parks and Recreation District, which is separate from the city of Bismarck. OK would not affect him. All right, I just had some clarification so like that’s a good question though.

02:39:46,030	Alright, do you have any further discussion? Comm. Connelly. I would like to uh mend my motion, um. Motion to um table until November 12th. Um, But for anybody. And I don’t know how this will work, maybe Janelle will have to help me with it. Um, but If all of the people in the room, um, could help us, um.

02:40:20,200	If folks need Say a sidewalk and thing, move that to government property, but let’s respect our property, private property owners and let’s not trespass on those. We have trespassing. We just updated that, didn’t we, Jo? Uh We have trespassing, yes. So if we can. Keep from people, uh, getting that.

02:40:47,930	Um, to buy us time so we can work on this a little bit more. He withdraw your motion. So amended. if there’s a second, if there isn’t. I’m I’m, I, I’m I don’t understand what the amendment is for sure. That’s my confusion, um. To uh.

02:41:23,070	Table it until November 12th, um, But uh no trespassing on private property if people need a place to stay and it’s a. Public sidewalk or. Buys this time I, I, I do, I need Janelle, please. Uh, Mayor Comm., so, uh, Comm. Connelly, you can’t trespass on private property.

02:41:52,570	Already, that’s the law if they, if the owner says that they want someone to leave, they can make them leave. And this ordinance wouldn’t affect. Private property, it’s about public property other than doorways to businesses would be about the only thing that would be affected.

02:42:15,400	and that’s where I said I might need your help on it trying to see, I mean, we got a lot of stakeholders in the room that asked for a tabling, but um there’s also a lot of people that want something on the books for an ordinance, so. How can we, is there a way we can accommodate both? To get us To November 12th, as we can work on some things to get us through the winter. Mayor, Comm., Comm. Connelly, so to.

02:42:42,700	Pass some type of ordinance for now that we’ll get till November 12th or to not kind of like what we do with planning and zoning where we say this with conditions. Is that possible in this sense? Mayor, Comm., Comm. Connelly. So the ordinance either gets passed, I mean, there’s terms of the ordinance. I can’t do a conditional ordinance passing.

02:43:09,330	OK, that’s what I needed to know. I didn’t know I don’t know how I could, you could condition it on a date that it becomes effective. A certain date if you wanted to do that, um. Right now it has to be published before it can be effective, so, um.

02:43:31,900	I’m not sure you’re wanting something that can be enforced in the interim, is that what you’re saying, or something that Provides I understand the tabling part trying to protect the people that have an investment in their own private property and respect all of the things that they have to overcome because there’s a lot of businesses trying to stay open, um, at the

02:43:55,330	same time, um. Not having a record of somebody being visited so many times or um possible breaking an ordinance, so to speak, um, There’s been some good discussions this last two weeks. But to just kind of spill them out, um. I think it’s a little preemptive yet, um.

02:44:22,100	And I know the Missouri River, um, and not gonna say the whole acronym. Been working with Comm. Cleary. There’s just, there’s kind of two different discussions if not more going on. So there seems a little hesitancy, um. To do nothing So Trying to accomplish a little bit of both, and, and it doesn’t seem like it’s possible, so.

02:44:44,970	Yeah, I can’t, we can’t enforce anything unless it’s passed as an ordinance. I don’t know what else I could do to give you something in the interim. I That would be effective. Um, You could do the education component or something that doesn’t necessarily require.

02:45:07,130	An ordinance, um, but their difficulty is they don’t have anything to enforce so I don’t know what they would educate regarding. Yeah, we can always change at this table any ordinance that’s enacted with the majority vote correct. Yeah Uh, as long as it’s.

02:45:30,830	Constitutional and legal and not preempted by state or I’ll start all over and I’ll take the next swing at it, um, but, uh, get rid of the motion, I withdraw my emotion. I’ll withdraw my second. OK, OK yeah. 2nd meeting in November 26th, right? Tomorrow’s October 9th. I’ll tell you, it’s on the it’s on our. The 26th is the 2nd meeting in November. Um, it’s on our agenda. Motion to approve the ordinance with no enforcement, um, Until we’ve had discussions through November 26th.

02:46:10,870	It’d just be educational like Officer Stemeyer. So Are you Is the motion that you’re making at the ordinance effective then. Yeah. Probably We have 2 more opportunity or that we’d have 2 more opportunities to where there’s a break in between to discuss it further or amend it by that time.

02:46:48,870	Then would we not have we have to, we have to do public notices and hearings and. Ever my comments about government getting in the way. I withdraw my motion. I’ll let you all decide. I tried. Commission Mayor Comm. I’ll make a motion to approve as presented.

02:47:32,100	I’ll check it OK, do we have discussion? Mayor, Mayor commissioners, I will reemphasize the, the fact that I said earlier about our stakeholders and that we need your help to, to, to help solve this, and I have no problem, um, with uh Renee and her team being in the facilitator of that. Other discussion, Comm. Connelly.

02:47:58,200	Um, I’m still gonna carry forth discussion because um The option that I’m working on is something that would be no cost to the city and. No over ordinancing or law, those type of things, um. I’ll be motioning yes to it when it comes around.

02:48:29,730	Um, To hopefully open up those dialogues and better conversations because of the greater issue about something will have to be in place so we can concentrate on the people here versus the people that might come from outside of here because. We’re much smaller. There’s only so many resources and we’ll run out. Other discussion Comm. Risch. Again, this is not the perfect solution. It’s not even the solution. It’s just a step forward.

02:48:52,600	We’re counting on Renee over public health to put together a coalition to figure out ways that we need help from the community. We need, uh, to support these nonprofits that are helping the homeless and I’m all in on that. We’ve got to do what we can. We, we need to give people a leg up so they can get back into society.

02:49:07,670	Uh, I don’t think this is infringes upon that effort. Any other discussion? He then we’ll call roll. Comm. Zenker. Mr. Connelly? Yes. Comm. Risch, Mayor Schmidt, yes. Thank you everyone. Next item, consider request to hear insufficiency of protests on resolution of necessity for street proven district SI 583. I believe Gabe He’s finding his way up.

02:50:13,200	Mayor and Comm. SI 583 is a lighting project. windy here, uh, consisting of 8 units in Bismarck. Most of these are new construction areas where we’ve constructed new roads in the in the recent years, uh, and are developing the, the adjacent properties, uh, some of these units,,, 567, and 8 are areas that where we’ve had a road for

02:50:33,030	a while and um, so in particular unit 8 is a section of 4th Street, uh, the summary that we have up here. Uh, would indicate and, and we agree that the enough signatures for unit 8 would have been obtained or or given to us to protest that unit out, so it was a lighting

02:50:51,670	project on 4th Street. Unit 7 is what you heard from earlier from some of the members of the public, uh, where 3 of the protesting, uh, Parcels, uh, protested and submitted, which occur or sums to 11% of the land area, um, which is not enough to, uh, protest out the improvement by, by entry code

02:51:11,600	and so you would have the ability to still move forward with that particular project if you would so desire. So with that, um, I would take any questions that you would have, um, but our recommendation would be to accept the insufficiency of protest, uh, for units 1 through 7, and to accept the protest for unit 8.

02:51:30,130	Questions, Commissioners. Mr. Mayor, um, So As presented, we, we, we kick out section 8, but number 7, we could also take that out if we chose as a commission, even though it was not sufficient in the protest, Mayor and Comm. Comm.

02:51:48,930	Risch, I guess you would have the ability to take out any of these units as well as, you know, cancel the entire project or cancel any project, really all of those decisions are up to you.

02:52:06,870	Um, this is just a process that is in century code that allows for, um, the landowners to to weigh a vote into the, the improvement to over 50% of the Land owning parties, uh, protest the improvement, then the the improvement has to be, uh, I guess I should say it has to not be paid with special assessments. You could still move forward with unit 8 as long as it wasn’t using a special assessment to pay for it. Comm. Connelly. Um, with the two like what could Comm.

02:52:27,730	Rich said, um, even if they were not. Assessed per se, would they still get the monthly charge, month after month, or would they be exempt from that as well? Mayor, Comm. Comm.

02:52:49,200	Connelly, our current fee structure for public works service ops and and the lighting component of that, uh, the is triggered by the proximity of a street light, so uh if that particular landowner uh did not have a streetlight within a certain radius their their property is not brought into the fee structure for maintenance for that for for the lighting system.

02:53:06,200	Um, so I guess if I don’t know if that was what your question was, but the payment of the of improvement, uh, would be special assessed to the entire, uh, district, which includes other properties, the other 18 properties and I should even mention, um, properties that we have listed here are only those that are not owned by, uh, the city or a park district or a school district because those

02:53:21,770	are not included in this summary, even though they would pay a cost or MDU would pay a cost, I should say MDU is in the district, but um, property that the city owns, um, is not included in the protest summary but would be paying its share for the improvement as well.

02:53:37,470	You did answer the question right away, so that I appreciate that, um. Have you been to the site yourself? Yeah, Mayor and Comm., yes, I have. OK. And is it true with the one gentleman said that there is a private light pole and almost every yard.

02:53:58,100	Uh, Mayor commissioners, that was on the 4th Street segment, so yes, that is true. There’s some yard lamps in the uh. Set back, uh, you know, on the private property that illuminates more of the the homes areas and not so much the street where we would find a potential conflict of someone crossing the road as a pedestrian.

02:54:15,600	So yes, there are yard lamps, but we haven’t done any lighting analysis to determine if that meets, uh, a lighting standard those existing lights are there. OK. Thank you. Comm. Risch, Comm. Zenker. Oh, excuse me, you have it, but to be fair, we could pull item 7 out and later revisited in install lighting. Mayor, Comm., Comm.

02:54:38,070	Risch, uh, this project is currently out for in the market for potential bidders to bid on, uh, so if we did not want to move forward with the potential unit, we’d want that direction now so it can be removed from the project and we don’t open up a bid for X amount of dollar project only to then say we’re only gonna

02:54:52,130	award uh half of that amount and, and kind of put our bidders at a disadvantage by doing that. So if it’s the desire to move forward, we want to move forward if the desire is to, to not move forward, we just want that direction so we can update our plans accordingly. Mr. Zinker.

02:55:08,570	Mayor Comm. Gabe, I just want to address the one question that came up. Uh, from Mr. uh. Forman about the light being between the the trees, is, was that just a conceptual drawing or do we take it into account, I mean, obviously I, I, Doug would be more application of this, but hey, let’s not rip up

02:55:30,930	a couple of trees and throw a light post in, right? So what does mayor commissioners, Comm. anchor, the maps that we sent out to the adjacent landowners, especially on this, this Clydesdale Drive, um, included, uh, approximate locations of where the lights would be to give a sense of where they would be located.

02:55:50,600	Uh, we had included information about the house side shield that they would have, uh, so that the light, if it’s on the the west side of the road would be able to project most of its light down and then to the east so that really none of that light or very little amount of that light, uh, projects backward.

02:56:03,600	or or to the west into the property. So that’s kind of the reason why we would put the lights or one of the reasons we would suggest putting the lights on the west side, and we want to be able to communicate that to the, uh, the potential, uh, Adjacent property owners of where that would be, but we

02:56:17,870	haven’t determined exactly where each light would be and we would do every measure we could to avoid um impacts to trees, access points, etc. that are already existing. Thank you, sir. So unit 7 because that’s the one we’re talking about, um. Mr.

02:56:40,330	Borman in his letter, and I think we spoke to, there’s already lights up there, is that accurate or those really not city lights, those are those. Yard lights, and Comm. Mayor Schmidt, there are some properties that have yard lights on, on the property that illuminate potentially their their driveway area, but they don’t illuminate the street. They’re not in the right of way. They’re all on private property. OK.

02:57:01,670	And then secondarily in the table you have presented with us, there’s 3 parcels in that segment, and it may not matter anyway, but those were those three also represented by the individual who testified tonight or someone testify who was not one of those three members. Mayor Commissioners.

02:57:24,070	Mayor Schmidt’s uh from my understanding the the letters that we received were and we had one individual testify on the Clydesdale, uh, and that person was here, the other person testified on the 4th Street, and that person that letter as well. I just want to make sure we’re counting, making sure we counted anybody who. Yeah they’re back to back. They’re all the three who for the and the group of section.

02:57:43,870	Unit 8 or 1. OK. Commissioners I’ll make a motion we passed a new ordinance without provisions 7 and 8. Or pass the as presented without 7 and 8. OK So Mm OK, got it, yep, I got it. 2. OK, we have a 1st and 2nd order is the discussion. Here and done we’ll call roll.

02:58:30,200	Yes. Yes. Mr. Zenker. Mayor Schmidt, yes. All right. Next item F consider request for approval change of order 2 for. WU 143 Water main replacement project. Mayor, Mayor and commissioners, thank you.

02:58:58,470	This project would have gone on the consent agenda uh as it’s pretty benign in, in, in nature, uh, but we kind of became aware of it later, later than the agenda would suggest or allow for us to to place it on that agenda so uh I have before you a change order for our water main utility replacement project for 2024 to replace a block of water main on Raymond Street between Rosser Avenue and Avenue A.

02:59:14,530	Uh, this area was recently identified due to a recent water main break. It’s actually scheduled for our 2025 project, uh, but And started breaking earlier than we would have liked. So, uh, our contractor has the capacity to do it and will hold the 2024 bid prices.

02:59:30,170	Uh, so we would like to take advantage of that opportunity if this passes, we will be notifying all the adjacent landowners of the potential disruption we typically do that in a mailer weeks before, but this will be more of a knock on each door and hand deliver the mailer because it’ll happen pretty quick if this is approved. Without it take any questions you may have. Commissioner’s questions.

02:59:45,000	Move to approve as presented. Second. Any discussion. He no will call roll. Yes, Mr. Zinker, yes, Mr. Connelly. Mayor Schmitz. Do we have any other business tonight? Mary Nunn, we are adjourned.