00:00:06,500	Kaplan in the room. Seeing none will dispense with that, Um, before the meeting starts. I would like to ask that we all um, observe a moment of silence to honor the memory of former Comm. Mark Armstrong. Who served on the burly county commission from 2006 to 2014 and 2018 to 2022, please. We.

00:00:44,000	Thank him for his service to burly county. The place. I. Just see the flag of the United States of America. And to the Republic for which it stands. One Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Called.

00:01:19,670	The May 20th meeting of the burly County Commission to order first item on the agenda is roll Call members, please Comm. Bakken. Here Comm. schwab here. Comm. Woodcock here. Comm. munson Chair here. Next item is approval either the agenda anybody’s got auditions or subtractions or any comments. No. Her motion is second to approve the agenda. Any further discussion. See UN call a roll, Please Comm. Schwab Yes Comm.

00:01:47,600	Woodcock Commission munson Comm. Bakn Chair bitner yes motion carries Consideration and approval of the May 6th 2024 meeting minutes and bills commissioners. Move to approve. Chair. I had gone over the bills, and they’re all in good order. So. The 2nd 2nd motion a second to approve the meeting minutes and bills any further discussion seeing un colorable Comm. schwab. Yes here.

00:02:14,700	Woodcock? Yes Comm.. Munson. Yes. Comm. B. Yes Chair. Yes. Motion carries, uh, Chair before we move on before we move on to the consent agenda. I just wanted to ask. Is there. A representative from Summit Carbon Solutions here. Anyone from Summit You kidding? Just asking They’re at every meeting. So, they say so.

00:02:37,670	I do not see anybody. So thank you, Cherokee. No problem. I. Guess. The record can reflect there’s nobody from some sort of solutions here. Next is the consent agenda. Uh, anybody want to pull anything off the consent agenda or I’ll entertain a motion. Will. We approve second motion a second to approve the consent agenda.

00:02:59,530	Any further discussion so no call the roll, please. Comm. Munson Comm. Bakken? Yes Comm. Schwab? Yes Woodcock? Yes JaRon Bitner yes motion carries Next item. Sheriff Liebman got burly East renovation Project Crossroads tavern, liquor license, renewal and variance to Burle County policy while Good. Evening, Mr Chair commissioners. Um I think the easiest thing I’ll just go down the agenda list.

00:03:25,730	And work through what we have that way. Um, The. First thing is the burly yeast renovation project and I did speak on that last week or last commission meeting and, um not really realizing Comm. Woodcock was gone even though he did send me an email. And.

00:03:47,630	So we had asked to tape where I asked to table it, which was granted the only reason I put it back on the agenda. Tonight was Comm. schwab Last meeting had asked for me to give the board the numbers that I was talking about. So in your packet. I did provide my speaking points that I used along with those numbers and where they’re coming from.

00:04:06,800	So. At. This point I will leave it up to the board if you want to further discuss it or leave a table. Commissioners. What are your wishes. Mr Chair I move! We remove it from the table for discussion. I have a motion to remove it from the table for discussion.

00:04:29,800	Is there a second? Second No motion second, any further discussion. Pa R. Comm. Munson Comm. Bakken? Yes. Comm. Schwab. Yes. Woodcox Yes Chair bitner Yes, wasnt Terry, but So I again. Um and I spoke last meeting. Commissioners about. You know our belief that we need to move forward with this project at some point.

00:04:59,770	Um, the building truly has not seen any major repairs or remodel to it since it was put into use in 1989 the, uh, original furniture that was put in there when we moved in, was second hand to begin with, and we basically, uh it went from a heavy industrial use building to, I would say, a quasi professional building now where we’re housing patrolmen.

00:05:25,870	On occasion have public stop there. And so truly the building, showing its age and wear and tear the other thing, Um, I think is a big factor is, you know many years ago we had a patrol division or a patrol section. That was perfect, You know? Primarily male dominated and that day is changed. Now.

00:05:48,830	We tend to, um, recruit not as many females as we would like for patrol, but we get some on occasion and then when we look at that facility out there It truly wasn’t built for, uh, both sexes to be able to operate out of and also with our patrol function.

00:06:10,770	You know there is the necessity to have a good facility where they can change and shower if need be during their shift, Um, in case they’re exposed to either biological hazards or chemical hazards in the course of their duties.

00:06:35,200	So, basically, um, I think this is an opportunity to at least Have a serious discussion with the money available, uh, that we could dedicate to this project. But. I’ll leave it up to the board to discuss if that’s something that they think should happen, or if you want to wait on it. Mr Chair. Comm. wood. Um, sorry I missed last week’s meeting. I was at a graduation of, uh, my grandson. Um, we did to the building.

00:06:56,600	What about 34 weeks ago, uh, extensively and went from one end to the other and, uh, it is in need of of, uh, renovation and we did go over every item, particularly the locker rooms and the in the lower level, uh, with the like you said patrol officers and and the female.

00:07:13,630	I don’t think they’re even a female changing room in there at all. So. Uh, we need to do some work there if we’re going to keep the building and we definitely can use the building.

00:07:30,670	It’s a it’s 50 years old, but still if we do a little bit of work, it’ll extend its life by 2030 years as far as I’m concerned, uh, I see nothing. The, the financing. We went over. I went over with the the sheriff on how we were, uh, intending to pay for it with some ARPA funds and some grants, and, uh, for the minimum amount of, I. Think $80,000 in excess of what we have, essentially, uh, money in the ARPA funds.

00:07:49,330	Uh, we can renovate that building and extend its life by 2030 years without a problem at all. So I. I would certainly recommend that we do that and do it this year.

00:08:10,830	OK, well, I guess about the only question I have at this point unless there’s other Questions would be in regards to the funding that would come from the old Jail maintenance fund. I guess a question for state’s attorney and finance as is, is that an acceptable use of those funds I think that I think that the fund the funds that are listed in our packet are all funds.

00:08:38,530	We’ve already got associated with Arpa and that one grant the other are $80,000. We have budgeted for the the, uh, next year of 2025. But. We can take that back out and pay it with the Gail maintenance fund. That’s what My recommendation would be because we got that fund. It’s for jail maintenance, and this is exactly in my mind that it fits the the category perfectly.

00:08:56,300	So. Uh, essentially, it would cost us No. No tax dollars addition to what we’ve already provided. Mr Chair. Um, commissioners Go ahead, I. I believe Lee can speak to that He did get a a response. I believe, um and maybe state’s attorney lawyer will weigh in also, um, but I’ll at least speak.

00:09:20,170	It’s my understanding that that money can be diverted. As property tax dollars now that the original intent of that money has changed. Uh, yeah. So About a month ago, we approached the state auditor’s office about this fund and, uh, basically asked the question.

00:09:45,800	You know these funds were raised through property taxes, the use that they were raised for basically no longer exists, because, um, they were raised for the old jail, which you know has been demolished or renovated. Uh, what they responded with is I. I don’t have the century code in front of me.

00:10:03,400	It was out of the century code, North Dakota century code and basically, it said when the Purpose, for which a special Revenue fund was raised no longer exists. Then you can You know, basically, you know, transfer that money out. Does that answer the question. Right that answers a question from your perspective, and I appreciate that we’re going to have to have confirmation from the state’s attorney on that.

00:10:27,170	And then the only other thing I’d point out and I and I think it’s a good idea to, um Move forward with the renovation of the thing. However, Um We also have deferred maintenance at the courthouse for a substantial amount of money that was relative to the boiler system in the courthouse.

00:10:47,200	And I think we need to be pretty careful about what we’re dipping into there, because that’s a pretty immediate need as well. A state’s attorney lawyer, Any input on that I’ll look into it for you. OK? Mr. Chair Comm. Comm. swab have something to say or II. I was ready to make a motion. But. If. You’ve got something? No.

00:11:12,800	I wasn’t going to make a motion or anything, but, uh you’re tolls Come, you would be If. This is 500,000. Um You’re 104,000 short. Mr Chair commissioners. So, basically, um we had gotten some preliminary estimates that put the if I remember right? The price about 460,000.

00:11:46,400	So, um In looking at, uh, my math and again, I would have to double check it, Uh, roughly rededicate our P funds that were set aside for that building out there. 142,002 72 rededicate ARPA funds that were dedicated for, uh, P PE purchases for Burle County. There’s 100 and 42,000 remain in there. Um 280,000, And then there’s dedicate a local Assistance and tribal consistency Fund, um, for 100,000.

00:12:16,370	That’s a odd money that came to burly county I’ve spoke with, uh um I’m drawing a blank Now, our our former finance guy, uh, bef after Clyde, the justin. Um Justin made me aware of that when we were looking at, uh, purchasing that piece of equipment for the jail as a possible use for that, Um, that money has been awarded

00:12:41,070	to Burle County by the federal government. It hasn’t been dedicated to anything yet, so that would bring us to roughly 380, then that additional 80,000 Um, from the jail maintenance fund or budgeting, so that would bring us to about that 460. Is what we’re estimating on the project. Roughly State’s attorney lawyer.

00:13:09,230	How much time would you need to? That’s something you need to wait until the next meeting to get back to you? I’ll send out an email to you. Mr Chair commissioners.

00:13:32,830	We can put this on for next meeting that would give you guys more time to think about this, um not to delay it, but, um, we’re basically I if we go forward with this, we would be ahead of where we were thinking we would be anyways. We were looking at potentially 2025 bidding this out, So I think, uh, it’s not gonna hurt time on our side, so my preference would be Be that the state’s attorney has a chance to weigh in and research.

00:13:53,530	Make sure everything is fine with that one. I would make a motion to table this until our next meeting, then Second a motion to second to table any further discussion. So none call the rule. Richard schwab Comm.. Woodcock. Yes, Comm. Munson. Yes Comm. Bakken Yes Chair Bittner yes motion carries Crossroads tavern Liquor license renewal.

00:14:20,130	Thank you, Mr Chair Comm. This. Next item up is the crossroads Tavern liquor license renewal. Um, if you remember kind of going back in time. We were here before the commission Speaking about the crossroads, Uh, liquor license. So. Um some things have transpired in this last year. That.

00:14:51,200	Basically when I reviewed the application The historical situation at that liquor establishment and also the fitness of the current owners. It’s my recommendation to the county commission that you vote for a non renewal of that liquor license. Uh, basically, um what I’m asking tonight. Is that we set a special meeting for May 31st. If that will work for this board.

00:15:15,370	Um, at which time I’ve consulted with state’s attorney lawyer on this, Um I’ve had discussions with my portfolio holder Comm. Woodcox, Uh, basically, um, as it stands now, the liquor license renewal application from the crossroads in my opinion is incomplete and inaccurate, um, separate from what we’ve seen Trans Over the last year.

00:15:42,100	Um, I think it would be best for a special meeting? Uh, where both sides could be represented. Obviously the sheriff’s department, along with the state’s attorney will present the facts of what’s transpired.

00:16:07,630	The historical that we have and what’s currently pending against the owners as far as criminal charges, and that would allow the other side to present their case also In speaking with the staff that I would like present from our department and also the state’s attorney’s office may 31st wood work. Um, I have spoke with the auditor in this room would be available at that time.

00:16:30,530	Did you have a particular? Time of day in mind where we’re wide open, so and I know the state’s attorney is wide open. Uh, my me and our staff are wide open, so whatever would work for the commission. We could do it in the morning to say, like 1030, that would work, I would say, um, We should plan maybe 1 to 2 hours. Um, for the meeting.

00:16:51,470	Um, but if we could say 10 or 1030, that would work. OK, um I’m in a meeting budget meeting that time period Budget meeting. With public health. My portfolio. What time is that be rescheduled.

00:17:13,930	Right? One would work for me, but I can certainly try to move my budget here to a little bit later in the day, I’ll try OK, um That’s not something that requires a motion because as a chair, I’ll go ahead and schedule a Uh, special meeting of the burly county Commission for May 31st. At 10 o’clock in the Tom Big meeting room. So. You said. 10 O’clock 10 o’clock. Mr. Chair keep in.

00:17:37,130	Keep in mind that we we would probably want to change that. If Comm. Munson can’t uh, change a previously scheduled meeting, But, I’m confident he can. And. We are available at any time, Mr Chair. So. Uh, one Last thing I’d like to say, Um is I did reach out to, um, the Crossroads Tavern to jake Miller.

00:17:58,470	He is in attendance this evening and I just want to make it known, Um I did reach out to Jake and explain to him this is what I was gonna do this evening and gave him the information about the special meeting. We would propose I also offered to sit down with Jake and his wife to explain what we’ve seen and what’s transpired.

00:18:20,930	And basically our concerns, um, at the During that conversation. Jake didn’t indicate he wanted that meeting. I did receive a follow up phone call from Jake. I’ve made four attempts to return that phone call. Um, he does not have voice mail. And so basically, I have not had an opportunity to connect with them. So.

00:18:44,500	Um, so that’s basically where we’re at. But. He is aware of what’s going on. Because thank you. Well, at this point, we have scheduled a special Bur County commission meetings. Address that so? Thank you next item very for the county policy, please. So, Mr Chair commissioners. This is actually good news here.

00:19:09,530	Um, we have a deputy that had left our employment approximately 13 months ago. And. He has reapproached us and wishes to rejoin our department. Uh, this would make the ninth employee that has left us over the last several years, and he returned to work for us. So I. I think it’s a good thing. The Reason.

00:19:33,530	I’m here is, uh Our practice is basically we have a rule. You can’t get a pay raise by leaving us and coming back. And. So. What. The practice is is we bring them in at one step less than they laughed at because we want a probationary period to make sure they’re going to be a good employee for us again.

00:19:50,070	Like when they left, and so we bring them in at one step less than they were making. Give them a six month probation and then return them to their full pay.

00:20:10,330	Obviously that works in their favor anyways, because in the time they were gone, the commission has usually awarded us a pay raise, so they’re truly not taking a substantial pay cut to come back to work for us, but With. The probationary increase. I don’t think it’s fair to the other employees that if you leave and come back, you come back at what you laughed at, and then get a raise. On top of that. So.

00:20:29,600	Um, this deputy as you can see by the packet I prepared for you was a very good employee for us. Uh, we’re excited to get him back. He had left to try out. The private sector made the determination. It wasn’t for him, and so I would request a variance that we bring him back.

00:20:49,400	At, a 78, which is one step less than he left at, but he would return to his previous Status after six month probation. Sounds fair to me commissioners. Move to the second. Take it take it OK motion to second. Any Further discussion A unca Comm. schwab. Yes Comm. Woodcock? Yes Comm. Munson Comm. Bakken Yes Chair Bitner. Yes motion carries Mr Chair Comm.

00:21:18,870	one Last thing, um, wasn’t on the agenda, but it is something I want to make you aware of, Uh, we have from time to time. What’s called an emergency management assistance. Compact, uh, emac request Basically. What That is is it’s when other states feel they have a need for law enforcement to come assist them.

00:21:38,530	They put out an emac To, the governor. The governor determines whether or not he’s going to authorize law enforcement or whatever services from that state to respond and assist. Uh, this was used very extensively during the Dapple protests to get law enforcement up here to back, Bill. So.

00:22:03,600	Uh, we have received a notice from the governor’s office of an em a request from the city of Milwaukee, Wisconsin to assist with the Republican National convention this summer and basically, what they’re looking for is manpower and potential. Um, backfill for people that are trained in Disturbance. We looked at this request from the Sheriff’s department. Obviously.

00:22:29,270	It puts a little burden on us as far as staffing. Uh but they the compensation is there they will be compensated. The meals and lodging are provided. We also learn the transportation will be provided The. One thing. We’re looking at this not only of other states helped us And. It’s a way to pay it forward. But. Also.

00:22:49,630	This will be some real world experience for our deputies that are trained in civil disturbance to go and work with other entities and see first hand how to handle this type of situation. Should something develop. Hopefully. Nothing does. But even just the exposure will be good for our department, so I just wanted to make you aware of that.

00:23:11,930	We don’t know at this time. Um if the governor has authorized it Just indicated we would consider sending up to four of our people Comm. buffet. That was my question was what the request was for for manpower, and are we covered on? Contingencies of Something were to arise here. Mr Chair Comm. is correct.

00:23:33,870	We will be covered I. I know there is other agencies that are basically willing to one help out basically like the help we got during the apple but also the training opportunity to actually Potentially see how a city the size of Milwaukee handles situations like this I.

00:23:58,400	I see it as a very good opportunity for training, so Comm. schwab I under I understand that training and stuff, But, are we sending people into something that could turn out to be a project that the National Guard has the manpower to handle? Mr Chair commissioners, and basically, it would come down to the decision of the states.

00:24:19,130	I think what I would say looking at this situation is the optic. I think there would be a lot of reluctance to send uniformed troops into, um, a city you know, I, if it can be avoided any time you use, um Military troops. Um, even though that’s part of the mission of the National Guard is safety and security of the home state.

00:24:42,170	Um, I do think it would be it. It’s more in line with the law enforcement response versus A military response and I think you know, looking back at the Dapple situation, You know you tended to see that law enforcement was out front, uh, working with the citizens, you know, and that that is a subject we talk greatly about

00:25:04,800	is you know the risk of the optics of military on civilians in our own country. Mister looking at that. Washington incident down in January 6th, where they had Didn’t call out enough people. Didn’t call out the National Guard, it said. Something you’re gonna keep an eye on in case, you know.

00:25:33,630	We’re not gonna send people down there that are gonna be overwhelmed. Mr Chair commissioners and and Very good point. Comm. schwab, obviously, um, you know, Looking back. In hindsight, you know there was some mistakes made there. I. I would imagine that and and that’s something we can definitely converse with. But. I would imagine that they will be prepared.

00:25:58,470	Um, you know, and not because it’s the Republican National Convention. I just think we’re out of time in our country where, um there’s civil discourse everywhere. Unfortunately, That doesn’t necessarily sound like something, you know, motion a second on. It seems like an appropriate thing to do unless commissioners have any other opinion. But to me.

00:26:20,070	It seems fair that they came to our aid. All of ours, I guess with with some needs we had, We can go and help some of them and, uh, it’s good for training, so I’m not seeing a problem unless anybody else has an issue, I’d say go ahead. Thank you commissioners.

00:26:42,330	Thank you Chair Thank you next item, county Engineer Hall got township mileage certification. Developer waiver request Weight limits Variance developer agreement and underground easement request. Could you bring Comm. I have on the agenda is every year The county Board of commissioners are required by the state of North Dakota to certify the number of township road miles in each of the townships.

00:27:01,300	Uh, I’ve included in your packet. The the certification form and the mileage for each one of the townships. Um, we prepared the forms have it ready, and we’d like the county chair to sign off on that, as part of the, uh, certification. There’s a proposed resolution in your packet.

00:27:18,070	I recommend approval, but I’d be happy to answer any questions you may have. There’s any questions. See? None. Is there a motion to approve second motion to second to approve any further discussion, seeing none called Roll, please Comm. Schwab. Woodcock. Yes munson Fakin. Yes Chair bitner.

00:27:43,070	Yes motion carries, uh under our current, uh, pavement policy, a developer is required to pave all the roads internally in a particular plot that they put together as well as one road connecting their uh, their plat to a paved road system. We’ve had a request for a This policy. Uh, there is a map and this is a MOOC township. There’s a map included in your packet, basically showing where that will be 145th.

00:28:04,930	This particular property up there is 100 and three acres They’re looking at carving out six acres and planting that, and that particular plant will go through the planning process, but they wanted to know if the waiver was going to be granted before they started spending money on the paving or on the plating process.

00:28:22,630	So, um if they were required to meet the policy they’d have to reconstruct about 7/10 of a mile. Uh, and pave 7/10 of a mile to get to highway 10. Um, if the county board does approve this particular request that does not preclude the county from requiring them to construct and pave that portion of roadway at some point in the

00:28:44,530	future, there is two res or resolution, uh, in your packet, I’d recommend approval and be happy to answer any questions you may have on that. Mrs. Any questions? I would move to approve second motion second to approve any further discussion, seeing none call the rule Comm. schwab Comm. woodcox. Yes, Mr Munson.

00:29:08,000	Yes, B? Yes Chair Been Here Yes motion carries next. Next item I have on the agenda is on September 6th of last year, the county board passed a resolution and basically this was applied to the portion of highway 10 from the city. Um, Bismarck City limits. That’s the Roundabout at 66 out to 100 and 58.

00:29:27,430	The motion basically stated that speed limit would be reduced to 55 miles an hour and that the maximum gross weight would be reduced from 1055 down to £ 80,000 and a six ton maximum single axle weight would be applied. And We would not, Uh, institute any overload permits on that particular portion of Broadway.

00:29:46,930	Um at the time in this particular weight limit is something that we’ve used at other locations on Apple Creek Road. It’s on a River Road. Uh, so it’s very familiar to those two locations. At. That particular time highway. 10 was breaking up tremendously.

00:30:02,070	We were having problems all over on that roadway, and I really do want to thank the board for doing this because that gave us some time, some breathing space to get on top of that, and, uh, get some paving patches done out there.

00:30:19,100	Uh, so that road is really responded Well, since we were able to do that now, uh, we did receive a request from a contractor that would like to work on the first basically three miles from 66 to Uh, Fairview Lane, and, uh, And since this was a highway or not, since this was a county board resolution that passed, we felt that our only option was to reject to deny that request.

00:30:41,930	They did request that we bring that denial to the county board for your review, and to see if you’d like to move forward and grant them a variance on that now, pros and cons in that particular segment of roadway. Um, is that that particular segment of roadway the first three miles is in better shape than some of that road is, that’s not to say it’s perfect.

00:30:57,670	There’s still It still broken up in some locations. Um, but it is in better shape than some of the other portions out there on that particular roadway, and then we we are much closer to the August start date for the contract where we’re going to do a reclaim mill out that particular roadway and repave

00:31:15,200	that so we’re closer to that timeline. Unfortunately the other. The downside of this is if you grant a variance of this particular contractor, I’m sure other contractors are going to be asking us for variances also, so you should keep that in mind when Reviewing this So what we’re requesting is that you just have some discussion on

00:31:33,300	this. Um and just, uh, direct the highway department on how you’d like to proceed. Mister Bakken. Marcus does, um And say I’ve driven that roadway and it’s seems to have You guys have done a good job and ah, getting that back up into shape.

00:31:54,070	Um, did Ah, they give any indication on the duration of the variance? Uh, how long their project is. They’re looking for having the variant for because I’m trying to keep this in in Context that August.

00:32:17,000	You know it’s we just gotta get to August so and we have a very short Development window in North Dakota, So I’m kind of You know if they’re looking at running all summer. Long versus Is it a couple of weeks. Is it a week. What Uh, commissioners.

00:32:33,070	My understanding They did not give us a specific timeline that they would like this variance to their variance to be waived, knowing just that the steps that they need to, you know, haul and gravel haul out stuff. Do this do that Some underground work things like that, Um, it will very likely go all the way until the August uh, construction project so So then. We would certainly have the option of proving that with a deadline like a drop dead date on the The thing, because I don’t I.

00:32:57,700	Don’t think we want some excessive hauling interfering with the Overhauling of the road. That’s correct commissioners. Yeah, So is that road going to be able to handle that additional traffic and that additional load in the meantime, without pounding out to that, or what do you think? I know if I guarantee something I’m not asking for a guarantee My

00:33:19,030	feeling is that particular segment of roadway could probably handle the heavier loads. So. So then since we’re gonna be tearing it up and tearing it out Do. We necessarily need a variance. Um, so much as Allow hauling on that road at this point a Comm. is that that’s a good point.

00:33:40,870	That’s another option the the board could at this point. Waive that whole constraints when we originally passed that Reg resolution, it was intended to go until we’ve done our did our construction project. So if you’re comfortable at this type waving that we can hold it together, maybe until at that point. So I Outside of this one project.

00:34:02,170	I haven’t really heard of much else going on out there. Besides the eventual overhaul of the road. And Provided our spring load restrictions off the road. Now. That’s correct. They are off the road right now. So. It’s all things being equal. I think we were, If I. Remember right. We were specifically addressing some extreme hauling.

00:34:20,930	From, the the pits out east and the speed was a big thing. And so the the A normal load if you limit it to an £ 80,000 load. Um and and that speed limit that we’re at What 55. Yeah.

00:34:43,900	That’s what we limited it to what they’re asking for is the 105 5 again, I. I, don’t I can’t support that? Because that that that will pound out the remainder of that. Um It to me, I. I think that I mean, I understand? We’re going to Tear it out anyway.

00:35:05,200	But it’s just seems to me my concern would be that it would accelerate the pounding on the road, but I’d I’d certainly take your advice on that more than mine. Comm.. Bakken Marcus. Um, you know, As far as the status of the road with the 55 Mile. An hour speed limit.

00:35:24,470	Um, because I drove that road and and I would be very comfortable remaining in place with that 55 mile an hour with the 105 is Would we be better off doing a variance for this? And having the ability to monitor that condition of the road and pull that variance if need be, rather than rescind the ordinance that was put in place last fall commissioners that would be a good step process as far as taking a step

00:35:49,000	seeing how it’s performing, just keeping in mind that other contractors may be coming in and asking the same thing. So so because III I think if we monitored that road, we’ve got such a short.

00:36:08,730	Window for development and construction, and given that we’re going to redo that road anyway, Um I would be comfortable as long as we have the ability to model monitor that road and then rescind that variance if need be. I’m sure I’m not opposed to it. Um, is the 105. That’s that’s based on number of axles, too. That’s not just a standard correct.

00:36:29,130	It’s a 1055, and then it will also be a maximum of 10,000, Uh 10 ton single axle load, So that’s generally the two that go together. You wouldn’t go over 80,000 with a standard Tractor trailer. That’s correct the You still have to have your axles under so it it requires more axles. Let’s review the timeline.

00:36:50,930	I’m not quite sure if we do a very we lift the variance, it’ll be an immediate lift and he’s gonna start construction right away and he’s going to run. Till August 1st When you said we are going to start tearing the road apart. So what does he do after August 1st if we’re in there, tearing the road up, but and he’s not done. What’s he What’s he gonna do Comm..

00:37:07,930	There’s a time to be done by August 1st. Yeah, There’s a timeline in there, Uh, a space of time in which, um, you’re allowing this variance to go and then, uh, at some point, we’re gonna start the project. We think it’s around August August sometime After that the intent was to lift this completely.

00:37:26,770	Right so he could come back in after that, and he could run the 1055 10,000 and what’s he gonna do? After, August 1st and or say it’s August 1st, and we’re on there doing with with all of our equipment. How’s he going to get around with all his heavy duty loads. Commissioners during construction will still be allowing trucks and things like that going through there.

00:37:44,300	I have no problem with restricting the the weight of trucks during our construction project because I can’t I really have a problem with putting one lift down and then having a heavy truck go over and break that. And, then the speed limit. The speed limit is gonna safety speed limits Gonna be very important, too.

00:37:59,870	I would recommend keeping the speed limit at this time, so So I guess the wording on this on the wording on this motion is going to be pretty particular. Comm. Schwan. Are you? What would you Once. This highway is done.

00:38:24,330	You’re gonna raise the loan limit to what Commissioners the intent of this resolution that was passed back in September was to allow it to go back to what it was prior to that which was 1055 with 1010 Ton. It’s. It’s The County board’s choice on what that number will be in in the long run again.

00:38:47,270	So, and that’s normally that normally comes out of the pit out there at, uh At McKenzie, Mino and And. Last year we had the city of Bismarck going over at 65 Miles an hour we had, of course, strata who has the pit? I. Don’t think we should be raising that Thing. Period. Because They’re just gonna bust up the road again. It seems to be working.

00:39:12,900	The idea is The reason why they were using highway 10. They could get an extra load in a day because They could save five minutes. Without for not if they did not go up to the interstate Well, So you can get an extra load in More profit, I guess. But what we pay to fix that road.

00:39:37,570	Something like 100 and 70 80,000. It was a lot of money. Yes and I. Don’t wanna see that happen again? I don’t think it’s a good idea to raise that. Any more than what it is. But. It’s something to think about. Well. That could be a discussion after That roads rebuilt.

00:39:58,530	I think that would be a discussion come back at that point. We’re resurfacing, not rebuilding the road. And It just Wouldn’t be right to go and Resurface and then have the same problem the following year, because we Oh. I don’t want to use the interstate not actually removing the and that’s a later taking out four inches and putting back four inches, so How much is there now.

00:40:26,170	Maybe six. And how we can, How deep is the pavement existing It varies. I know 68 inches, So. OK, Uh, I. Guess. That’s a significant thing Now that you brought it up because as I’ve been driving on 66th Street here just lately. Well the A DS, too.

00:40:46,500	I noticed that, um ah in the past week or so, Burle County was out spraying down this stuff over these, um, areas that are pounded out and are and and so I thought, no. When. I’m looking at it over on 66th Street where I guess we did it last year, and those patches are already pounded out. Right. So it’s um the the damage is down there.

00:41:09,230	Um so a four inch lift or 22 inch lifts over a Disturbed base is kind of a problem. Big problem really? I really would like to see those guys be able to haul and get her done.

00:41:30,070	But not if it’s going to prior to Work getting done on there, but not if it’s going to pound out because that road was pretty badly pounded anyway. Frankly, I think just overlay on It’s Probably not a great answer in those, uh deteriorated areas. Well as part of that project.

00:41:47,970	We are cutting out the deteriorated areas and then take out the four inches and four inches so But then if you had more deteriorated areas, you just have to cut out more deteriorated areas than that’s correct. Um And, then that’s strong likelihood. Maybe maybe not. What are your That that particular segment around here again. That particular segment, uh, wasn’t too bad if you were gonna go to the East. I wouldn’t recommend it at all.

00:42:12,330	But that particular segment up that first three miles is better than the rest of the world was And. If. You. Look at the patching out there as you go to the East. That’s where you can really see the heavy patching that we had to do so. OK Comm.. I’m gonna move to deny the request.

00:42:32,070	I don’t think we need to be Putting more money back into our roads. Um We’ve got enough problems the way it is. OK. I have a motion to Is there a second? My motion. Is there a second? Have a motion in a second and any further discussion. So Non Cholera Comm. Bakken No Comm. Schwab Commission. Woodcock.

00:43:03,500	Yes Comm. munson Chair, bitner No. Motion fails. Um I don’t have the right answer. I. I. Don’t think a complete denial is appropriate thing right now because we are going to work on it. I’m very nervous about additional costs. How, do we? How? Do? We address that Comm. Bach.

00:43:30,270	I would make a motion to Allow for the variance on a week to week basis, monitoring the road and keeping the speed limit at 55 miles per hour. Ah, with the drop dead date of being when construction starts and that road gets It’s resurfaced, Um Again. This is I I. If something arises, then Commissioners. One thing maybe is in that vein too.

00:43:55,970	You require you could require the highway department to set up a hall road inspection on that particular and if we see distress or what ever going on there, uh, that we that the contractor is responsible for repairing that, at least from now, until from now until the August Timeline. That may be some way of.

00:44:14,730	I would add that to my motion. I think that’s fair because the goal here is to try try to not go backwards. Wild moving forward for these people. Listen you would be able under this motion. You would be able to pull the plug if need be. You monitor it, you’ll you’ll look at it ahead of time. And and I. Just.

00:44:34,570	Wanna for clarification. I. Wanna make sure we’re just talking about the maximum weight and the axle weight. Not. The speed limit is that correct? Correct State Limited would remain 55. Who’s going to be out there. Monitoring the weight of these trucks as they go by.

00:44:52,930	Are the way to something that we use the State Highway department to deal with and when they actually come out there. I mean we’re only talking about a four month, three month period and our commissioners, Uh, we work closely with the sheriff’s office on this, and generally speaking, they’re fairly responsive, not the sheriff’s office. The state highway is I’m getting their scales and stuff out there.

00:45:10,530	Uh, so we’ve had a fairly good response on those areas where we call in a problem and we get some reaction. So now if they’re in another county, six counties away With the scales and they can’t get there. That particular day that happens, you know, but when they’re around the area, they’re usually fairly responsive.

00:45:31,000	We have a motion on the table. Is there a second? Second No motion to second any further discussion. See non color Comm. Woodcock Comm. munson. No Comm. B Yes Comm. Schwab Chair bitner yes motion carries The next item of I have on the agenda is, um, review and approval of a developer’s agreement.

00:45:58,730	We use these developer agreements from time to time because of our construction season being so short, they can’t always get everything done in one particular season and because of the nature of those things, they put a lot of money into these things and our policy states that they have to have the roads completely done before we take over any of that,

00:46:14,200	so therefore they they can’t get the plant approved. They can’t get the, uh, start selling last. Can’t get, uh, funds generated Like that so from time to time we’ve used these developers agreement. We’ve never had a problem with them. They’ve always worked pretty good.

00:46:31,800	Uh, the developers on Summit point of asked us to put a developer’s agreement together. It’s basically this is a 22 process. 11 process is to deal with the chip seal, which they don’t think they’re going to be able to get done. Uh, by the end of the year, and that’s really our portion of it. The thing we’re concerned about if they have a good construction season.

00:46:47,330	Maybe they will get the chip seal done. We don’t know, but they just want to get prepared for that, and The second item is dealing with the DOT.

00:47:00,870	And that is, as part of this process they’re going to be putting in a turn lane down on 1804, and that is based on the number of, uh lots get built on and stuff like that. So. Uh, that is really the DOT S issue, But we’re doing it as a three way agreement.

00:47:19,470	The DOT doesn’t have as much of mechanism to enforce that as we do, because we can deny occupancy permits if we need to to get the developer motivated to get that done, So, Uh, the agreement is in your pocket. I would recommend approval. Um, if you have any questions, I’d be happy to try to answer move to approve as recommended motion a second to approve any further discussion. The NCO Comm. Schwab. Yes Mr Woodcock. Munson. Yes. Comm. Bakken Yes, Chair.

00:47:43,400	Yes motion carries The last item I have on the agenda is just bring to your attention. And. Uh, basically have you do discussion and direct the highway Department on how you’d like to proceed. Uh, if you would like to proceed. Uh, this is an easement request that is being read or made to us by MD U. Uh, this is going across our property.

00:48:02,530	There is a map in your, uh um packet that shows where this particular uh, request is at, uh we did work with them on some of the language in this particular Easement so they are gonna bore under our property so it will be no above ground work.

00:48:22,300	Basically throughout that area, Um, and we got them in the area that we wanted them to be in as far as distance away from the roadway. So, um By and large it meets our criteria. I’ll, be honest with you. It is written Very legally. It’s not the way I would have written an easement, but, um, I believe everything goes, um, does meet our needs in there. So. If.

00:48:45,230	There’s any questions? Um, we’d like the county board to review that and make a decision on how to proceed. Yeah, I. Um, I do have something. Um Comm. said. Uh, the owner.

00:49:09,830	Its successors and assigns agrees not to build, create or construct or permit to be built, created or constructed any obstruction, building, engineering works or other structures upon over or under the strip of land. HEREIN described or that would interfere with the hearing stated uses or company’s rights here under I, Don’t I’m not comfortable with that. I think that we need to. You know I.

00:49:26,570	I have easements of on my land, but I can still do certain things, and I think we should have a clause more clearly that states that, um, if we need to go through there and do something, then that gets, uh, that’s on there, that’s on them.

00:49:45,000	Not on the county because I think we’ve had problems in the past where We wanted utilities moved or something, and they just said, no, That’s not our problem. The commissioners. You’re absolutely correct we have had in the past, uh, problems with that.

00:50:03,870	That’s why we did move the location of this particular easement in farther, so it is easy within the area in which we can basically state you’re in our right of way at this location, and therefore you have to move the line or you have to do whatever you need to do If. We say, reconstruct that roadway and want to widen it or something. That they’re gonna have to pay for any cost of moving those particular things. OK. So. What? What guarantee Do. We have that they? Ha.

00:50:20,330	They must do that, Um Basically I’d wanna make sure I talked to the state’s attorney on this but my understanding that all goes back to case law and how right away is assigned and and stuff.

00:50:38,430	Um, so if you’d like me to spend some time talking to the state’s attorney about that, I could I’d be more than willing to do that. I would prefer that myself. Just Comm. Schwab. We When. You do an easement like this? Um Is it? One of them deals they get the easement for a dollar. Uh, commissioners when we request an easement for a property owner. Oh, back. I don’t know It’s. It’s been a while, seven years ago.

00:51:04,530	Uh, I came to the county board and said, This is the, uh dollar value. We’ll offer property owners for temporary easements and then for permanent easements per acre that we take.

00:51:25,930	And right now we’re using $3000 per acre, uh, on easements that we take and then on temporary, I think it’s $500 for each temporary on a particular piece of property, And this was quite a few years ago that we went through that process and developed that those dollars but The Highway department We do pay for easements. That’s correct. Well. I guess that begs the question. Why.

00:51:41,000	Do we give away an easement for free is that that’s that’s just Yeah, I’m I’m looking at this and And besides getting paid For an easement. There’s some real nice rock piles up there. I’d like to see one in our yard to crush I’m serious.

00:52:11,930	We’re sure to rock to crush Work out a deal, Marcus If the commissioners would like me to, uh, in lieu of money, these rocks or something of that effect we can work on that. So. What, would it cost us To. Move them rocks in. I mean if we had to pay for them like we do. Figure something out and come back. Yeah? Yeah. I could figure something out and come back to the board with that.

00:52:27,330	And. This could be tabled until the next meeting for that purpose. It doesn’t make sense to be hauling rock. 20 miles away when we got a bunch of it there, I make the trade. Don’t have anything to lose by negotiating.

00:52:49,670	What’s that you don’t have anything to lose by negotiating I moved to table this and let uh Marcus negotiate on. Some of those assets and confer with the state’s attorney. And. So. Part of that is the question about making sure that the at some point in the future we need to go through there that that’s the state’s attorney’s motion. Second, any further discussion. Soon on co Comm. Schwab.

00:53:14,800	Yes Comm. Woodcock. Yes Comm. Munson. Yes. Comm. B. Yes Chair. Yes motion carries. Thank you very much. Thank you. For cure Magic. Extension agent Kelsey Decker office closure dates. Welcome Chelsea. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good. Evening commissioners.

00:53:59,070	Um, I’m here tonight to two things formally invite you guys to our burly county achievement days coming up in July, and that’s what you have a flyer on, and I’ve also talked to Comm.. Schwab, our portfolio holder and also HR on a couple different office closures, and it was recommended to to.

00:54:20,930	So as you see the couple first ones that I’m looking at is that Tuesday July 9th is our static night. And. Really. It would be our office is looking to be closed from 230 to 5. It’s all hands on deck as we get into that static evening, and then also, um July 11th the livestock rapid and poultry day again, we take all our staff In the past we have had like a county temporary part time

00:54:45,570	people in this year we elected not to. We didn’t find it necessary to hire anybody on we’ve also had India. Extension interns as well that were there to answer phones or anything for public traffic and stuff. And then lastly, um this year is the first year that N DS U extension is well, N DS U.

00:55:06,000	Excuse me is doing what they are calling the all agricultural affairs Conference November 5th through the seventh and that encompasses everybody employed within N DS U extension for this conference out in Fargo and so in my discussion with Comm.

00:55:29,930	Schwab we visited about, you know, giving the public ample time and during those achievement days specifically have a sign on our front door, saying that the staffer either in the back Rena or down at the other arena, um, assisting with this for each achievement days and also getting a recording to let people know that we would be able to return their calls as soon as possible. So.

00:55:48,200	I, Just bring that to you guys tonight in front of the commission, And I. Guess I’m looking for a blessing. On that. Any questions? Yes, Commission B, Um so I know there’s a lot of setup that goes with this. So.

00:56:08,330	Would you be looking at closing on the ninth at 230 or noon? Yeah, so the ninth we actually set up, um, prior to this week and stuff, we’ll do a set up on that Sunday. And. So we’re just looking on the ninth from 230 to 5 and then all day July 11th and then that all egg affairs the fifth through the seventh. Knock it out of the park. See any action required.

00:56:29,530	Thank you thank you. And I. Hope. You guys will come out and check out the achievement days. Thank you. Thank you. OK County Human Resources Director Pam Binder. Um Really County Health insurance Plan Summary And Health Insurance Committee recommendations. Welcome back. Chair Bettner commissioners. Once a year I go through the Self insured, self funded, really county.

00:57:02,030	Health insurance plan. Um, kind of to give you an update of how it’s going, so I did provide a narrative a memo and I’d like to go to the back page of that memo, which is the actual spreadsheet. It shows us our five year And kind of just do a quick review of that.

00:57:20,600	Um, So it’s the one that looks like this. Yeah. So on that spreadsheet. We started the plan in 2019. We started self funding in 2019, and this takes us from 2019 to 2023. Um, that first section is actually reporting from Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North, Dakota, the financial reporting and Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Dakota is our third party

00:57:46,630	administrator, So. They process our claims, so we have a total average subscribers, total average members or subscribers are employees. Our members are everybody on our plan, so their family members as well. And then the payments, health payments RX payments. Those are our claims. So.

00:58:08,400	That’s what we have for claims Year over year, um, blue Alliance care management that is the quality plan. Um, that we have or that Blue Cross and Blue Shield has with the providers, so it’s not Based on OK You do this service. You get this amount. It’s the quality of care.

00:58:27,700	So If, you go to your providers, Your providers may be asking different questions doing different things, and that’s in order to get the quality of care. So. That’s part of this also the Blue Alliance shared savings. That’s part of that as well. That program So. It costs us up front.

00:58:46,330	But, the savings and the claims will come later when we catch stuff on On the early end instead of someone coming in late and then we have higher claims due to chronic health conditions. So. That is our adjusted group liability and you can see in in 2019. It was 3.9 million in 2023. It was up to 4.6 million. And. Then. We do have some rebates that come off of that We have the RX pharmacy rebates.

00:59:08,730	They come off, and we have total stop loss credits that come off because we reinsure our plan. We’re not big enough to be able to absorb all the claims on our own, And. We do have some substantially high dollar claims. So. We reinsure ourselves. We pro, uh, purchase stop loss. Um Insurance from Blue Cross and Blue Shield, So.

00:59:30,130	We pay a premium for stop loss insurance and then anything above 60,000 in claims they reimburse us. For the amount of that claim. And. We have used it. Um, if you go back through the memo, I break down the stop loss.

00:59:51,570	It’s on the So that page is where I’m breaking down the stop loss and we have been over 100% of our stop loss premiums to claims. Um every year Except for last year, 2023. So. We’re not a plan that’s going to go without stop loss coverage. A very long time. Um So when we have that one thing to note in 2023 those RX rebates That 138,000 is only for half of 2023. We. Get the reimbursements.

01:00:18,130	They’ll come this year. So by the end of this year, we’ll get the full 2023 reimbursements so that amount will go up. For credits. So, Then we take that percentage. So. That’s our spending on the plan and we take that with what our plan cost to administer, So.

01:00:38,730	We have our stop loss premiums and then we have our nor, uh, Blue Cross and the show of North Dakota administrative fees are blue card, administrative fees and blue card is a program to where if you’re traveling out of state if you’re in Minnesota or Texas, and you have to go to the Dr.

01:00:56,670	, that’s the blue card network that processes the claims within our plan. So that you Can be pro. Uh, can you can have insurance for your claims. So that’s blue card. And. Then, you have the total premiums and fees, so that’s our total cost to administer the plan and then the The third section is our employee contributions, employer contributions. And. Then he cobra contributions.

01:01:18,730	That’s former employees that Choose to stay on our plan for 18 months after they terminate employment. And. That’s our total intake, So. We take that up against our expenses, and you can see that The last three years we have been in the red So our reserves are the ongoing reserves.

01:01:39,330	Um, we always thought that in 2019 with covid that it break the plans because we get so many claims and the opposite happened. Instead of people going to the Dr.. They avoided the Dr.. They didn’t get those knee replacements. They didn’t get anything that wasn’t needed at the time.

01:01:57,400	And so the claims actually went down in our plan, But, you can tell in 2021 to 2022. The claims went back up because now our members are having those surgeries, those elective surgeries and so some of our reserves are being used up. And then we also have the loan payable.

01:02:20,930	Um, when the plan first started, the commission was generous enough to provide $3 million as a loan. A safety net for the plan so that we wouldn’t have to come back to the commission and say we are in the red. We need more funds. We’ve been gradually paying that back. Uh 500,000 at a time payments and you’ve done that for 2022 2023.

01:02:40,130	There will be one for 2024 as well. So what will be left on that loan after 2024 will be 1.7 million But. Our plan has to learn to stay on its own. It has to to build those reserves so it can stay on its own. And. So. Our Health Insurance Committee met, and, uh, Chair Bittner. I’m Not.

01:02:57,670	Sure if you knew you were the one the lucky one that was on the committee didn’t know I was the lucky guy. I Know. You’ve been, uh, you’ve been what did I say? You’ve been copied on the money and it’s your fault. It wasn’t aware of it.

01:03:17,530	OK, so you’ve been on the emails for the plan? We do have some, uh, very good members on there we have. The list is on the front of the The memo. Um, we have our auditor, Our, Deputy, Auditor, our finance director, our deputy finance director, our county engineer HR, Director HR assistant that deals with payroll and benefits.

01:03:37,870	Um, that Billy County Human service own business managers on there in our county recorder, so that is who is on the Health Insurance Committee and the Health and Insurance Committee met in May 15th or not, May 15th and may 10th And came up with a recommendation to do an 8% increase for health insurance for 2025 and the Count County split the employer

01:03:59,470	employer split would be 95% to 5%. Um, So. We’re recommending that the commission approve an 8% health insurance increase. Mhm. You need that. You need a motion. Do you need that right? I would move. We approve the 8% increase. I have a motion to second to approve the increase. Um Comm.

01:04:25,570	van just stepped out of the room. And that’s OK. Um Our administrative fees I can keep going for a bit administrative fees. Um in 2019. There are 50 $50 per person per month so per member per month. Um 2020. They stay the same because, of course it was Covid and we weren’t using the plan. Um, as much in 2021.

01:04:52,670	They went up slightly to $52.94 per member per month. 2022 they went to 55 06 per member per month. 2023 inflation hit $57.26 per member per month and for 2024, there were $59.84 per month, So we’re right. Almost $60 in another $10 to administer the plan with Blue Cross and Blue Shield.

01:05:18,730	Um, I also have the recommendation for the recommended premiums in there as well. And by Comm.. Bakken is back now so I did make a motion motion in a second. We were waiting on you. Thank you. Um, do you? Do? You need any more information? No, I heard it. OK? C all Comm. Bakken. Mr Schwab. Yes. Mr. Woodcock? Yes, Mr munson Chair.

01:05:46,530	Motion carries. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for doing without me on those meetings. I appreciate that. Maybe. Yeah, I think they got more done without me than, uh, Finance director Lee Jacobs got a list here. Burly Morton detention center Sales Tax Bond Update on escrow fund. Timing and next steps repurchase options request for commission approval.

01:06:16,970	Welcome the And, also about as much Yeah, thanks. Thank you. Hm? Thank you. What. I. What I passed out is is an updated version of what’s in the agenda. Packet. Um Gosh, what happened. Something happened on Friday. We got our sales tax. That’s what happened, so we got our sales tax on Friday.

01:06:51,670	So that was after the agenda Packet deadline, So. That’s why we had to to update it about the third week of each month. We receive our sales tax deposit from the, um from the treasurer. So, uh, Share it and our commissioners. We’re continuing our discussion on the detention center sales tax bond.

01:07:17,200	Uh, We have a fairly significant update tonight. Um There has been a change to our escrow. Um, situation since we last met, Uh Previously. We were assuming that we had to pay.

01:07:43,330	We were we were advised that we had to pay our, um Our our bond at the earliest possible time when we had the money, which would have been the the earliest maturity date of 2025 and the it in that case, paying off the bond as soon as possible as typical for a tax exempt bond. Um I guess the IRS believes that they Subsidizing the interest rate on tax exempt bonds because they don’t they don’t get their share of it. So.

01:08:05,400	They’ve got these rules that you know that that say you can’t You have to pay him back as soon as you can. And, you know that that type of thing? That’s what I understand? I’m, not Bonds are not my my forte. But.

01:08:22,830	In our case, the the bond began as a tax exempt bond in 2015, I guess and it was refunded in 2020 as a taxable. You know I, um, when we When the bonds were issued. They were about 4.5% thereabouts and come 2020 interest rates had declined. And.

01:08:48,000	Uh, I think I was Al Witmeyer was the was the county auditor, and he refunded the bonds at two and a quarter percent interest, which is what we’re in today, Um, taxable, and that action saved the county $7.5 million. So. That was, uh um kudos to Al and to the the Commission. I’m Sure some of you On it at that time. That was a A savvy. Move. Um So. Now in this case.

01:09:12,530	Are deputy finance director Taylor Schmidt was reviewing the bond documents and realized that we have in the bond documents the option to pay off at at, uh, the earliest, you know, maturity or any date thereafter, basically in any Sort of, um Combination or permutation that we want from from what we can tell. And so, um We approached the Bond Council and the underwriters about this.

01:09:38,830	Um, there was some discussion. They went and met with the Underwriters Council and with, um I think it was the you know. Top brass at the at the underwriters, and they came back and confirmed that yes, we are able to, um, pay the bonds off at At maturity.

01:10:03,900	Um so so This is a fairly complicated situation as as you can tell, So. I’ve asked Taylor since he’s been, uh, really in the weeds on this if he would come here tonight and and present on what this what this development means, uh, in in terms of holding these bonds to maturity.

01:10:29,470	Commissioners so he gave pretty good background there on what has changed, Um with that tax exempt bond. There’s There’s the restrictions that were mainly the type of investments that we can purchase. Um and then timing the bond that he mentioned on the payoff because they essentially I believe it was the IRS.

01:10:44,130	The Treasury created a specific and type of investment so that you can’t make money on this diffusion process. Um, and so now we don’t have to do that because it is a taxable bond so we can invest in any type of US Treasury and we would have a bidding agent would select those for us and Make sure that their cash flowed out to match the payments.

01:10:58,370	And, then that bond payoff is the big one, because right now, as as lee mentioned, uh, I believe the highest interest rate on our bond is 2.5 2 and a quarter percent but Treasuries are yielding 4.

01:11:15,330	5 5%, so that middle table there on that handout that we gave you, Uh, if you look at that burly share the savings, it’s a little over 2.2 million, and that’s because even though By by extending these payments out an extra 77 years on what we have to we’re going to pay an extra $8 million roughly in interest or sorry, 5 million in interest, but will earn 8 million extra by investing that roughly 35 million last payment that we

01:11:34,470	would have made if we paid it early, where we can invest that out for these next seven years and earn even more. And so what That means is we deposit less up front. We, get those savings up front. And.

01:11:47,330	So what that has done is it’s changed the timing a bit on this defeasance because kind of in both directions. Um Colliers advise us that we should probably give ourselves a 60 day window to start this versus when we need to give notice Just because it’s so complicated, and there’s so many parties involved.

01:12:03,400	I know that the director of public finance at Colliers, I Think mentioned he hadn’t seen something like this in 2025 years. That was structured this way, so they just want to make sure that since we have this hard deadline of notice, we don’t want to be waiting for someone to miss that deadline. Um Morton has now moved up. Few months compared to where our last estimate was. So.

01:12:18,530	They’re now estimated at September of this year to have collected enough to pay for their share. Um, based on that kind of predetermined percentage of our historical sales tax, uh, but the only still kind of timing issue there is that if we’re looking to give notice, then at the end of September, we would need to start that process in

01:12:35,100	August and they would not have enough yet when we start that process, which is when we need to start purchasing those investments, so we’re still in kind of the same situation as before.

01:12:48,270	Where you know if Morton’s comfortable putting up funds, you know if they’re willing to do that, so we can turn this off earlier or if if burly puts them up right now, I think we have almost enough combined in the escrow to make this full amount, or we wait till Q four because in Q four would be once that September payment hits at the end of September is when we could start this process, But, then

01:13:02,800	we’d most likely be into that Q four where we couldn’t give notice to the tax department until the end of the year, And. That’s that second table there. They’re kind of breaks down when we give notice when those sales tax collection Stop.

01:13:17,200	And then those bold numbers or how much more would have estimated when we have to start this defeasance process. So if we were looking at Q two, obviously, we’re within 60 days. So. You know if we if we wanted to pursue that it’s we could, you know, try and do our best and see if we can expedite that process.

01:13:32,070	Um, but at that point, Morton still won’t have enough if we’re looking at Q, two like I said that Q three would be when they would have enough at the end, but still not enough at the beginning. And then Q four, most likely they would have enough at any 0.1 thing to consider which Colliers kind of had pointed out.

01:13:45,500	To US as interest rate risk, So obviously, these estimates do change. It even changed compared to our last estimate. Um, and if rates on average, which you know, that might not be how it would work, But, if on average rates went down a quarter of a percent on what we could get invested in the yields that would cost burly counting about 250,000 extra

01:14:00,270	that we’d have to put up, so that’s just another piece and for Morton as well, I know they had mentioned something about interest, you know that they would lose if they invested. But if we wait till Q four interest rates drop on what we can invest.

01:14:14,330	It cost them an extra 50,000 roughly So that’s just another factor to consider there. Um, if you have any questions, I’m happy to answer them. Otherwise, I’ll turn it back over to Lee. Issues. Any questions? Not seeing any cat, sir. Thank you. So the the original Just to recap the original estimate we got from Colliers was 42.3. We’re down to 40.

01:14:41,400	1 that we would need to escrow. I think I should clarify We don’t have to sit here and actively manage this stuff for the next eight years. Um, we will Do the same process with commissions of the commission’s approval, of course, but we would deposit these funds in an escrow account. Invest them and we would.

01:15:04,930	We would, uh, have to pay a trustee to, um To do this for us, so there would be a would be B and D. Basically, so we’d be we’d be paying B and D for the next eight years. Whatever their fee is it would be a couple 1000 bucks a year.

01:15:18,900	I’m sure to make the payments and, you know, do the stuff they’re doing now just you know, to follow this timeline, so it’s not something we’d have to think about. Um, I think once it’s deceased. It’s basically off our books, but I’m. I’m Not entirely sure about that.

01:15:36,400	Um, you know, certainly it wouldn’t have an effect on our fund balance because we’d have the the asset would completely offset the liability in terms. The girl, And. So. Um I just wanted to Maybe put your minds at ease that we’re not gonna have to sit there and think about this. It’s basically once it’s escrowed. It’s basically done, um so timing and next steps.

01:15:58,870	So, um You know the facts have changed clearly, and they’ve changed for both burly and Morton because we’re kind of joined at the hip on this, Um, burly saves about 2.2 million under the current interest rates. Morton’s about 450,000. And, So. We did talk to Don Rone, the Morton County auditor briefly about this and just to kind of update her. She seemed Pleased with it.

01:16:20,170	I mean? I thought so anyway. Um, so since since Martin’s escrow requirement has decreased, it’s possible they might reconsider. You know the motion that was brought. I think it was April 11th that was denied to to sort of advance to fund in advance this escrow so they may reconsider. I think you know it’s Taylor mentioned.

01:16:40,600	We’re both subject to interest rate risk. I’m nervous about rates going down because this is a long It’s eight years. It’s a ton of money and so even a small change in rates between now and when we can get our investments locked in could have a big impact, and we would feel that up front because just

01:17:00,230	as we’re getting the savings up front, we would have to pay more upfront if the rates go down. If. That makes sense. Um And so We’re kind of there’s a There’s an advantage or benefit to both Morton and burly to do this soon and the other point I have here is I mean we would

01:17:17,430	ensure I know Morton was concerned about interest, You know losing interest. We would ensure that they are invested. I mean, that’s that’s what we’re gonna do with the Escrows. We’re gonna invest it. So. If that’s a concern.

01:17:32,970	We can, you know? Assure them that if you know if they want reconsider if the commission wants us to approach that, uh about reconsidering that that they would be invested, Um, so the other comments I have here on Timing is that Obviously we have a vote coming up June 11th, and if the sales tax tax measure passes I I.

01:17:58,870	It’s possible that the commission might Want to defeat this as soon as possible, basically You know if the sales tax measure passes, then we would the the earliest we could turn on the one cent would be, um I think it would have to be beginning of Q four and so, I. I understand? We don’t wanna overlap there. So. We have this half cent going.

01:18:17,170	Um, and as long as they have sent us going, the one cent would not be you know would not be going so we’d be collecting half as much basically as uh, U under the current sales tax, as we would under the the one that’s being proposed.

01:18:33,670	So, uh, where I’m going with? That is a point to that Is that if we think that If. We think we would want to defeat the bond at the end of the second quarter if we think Hey if the sales tax measure passes, we need to get this, uh, this current sales tax turned off. The the next date. We could do.

01:18:52,930	That would be the end of Q two, which is basically honor before June 30th. And so For my perspective if we think the sales tax measure passes, and we think we want to turn this off as soon as possible, we should start acting now. You know, like tomorrow. Um, with the getting all these steps.

01:19:14,430	Uh, all these things in in place, and so the things that I’ve the list that I can come have come up with of things we would need to do to defeat any time but you know, especially by June 30th. We have a handful of investments with BND. They’re all US government. You know Treasuries, we would have to liquidate them.

01:19:33,570	Um some of them are probably have a lower than market interest rate. We’d probably take a haircut on them. We would then reinvest them at current market rates. So you know, we would On, the whole we would come out. Basically. We would be OK.

01:19:52,170	It might cost a couple grand in fees to buy and sell this stuff, but we would have to liquidate all of our investments because we need to reinvest them according to the maturity schedule, and so in doing that we would need to contact with the contract with a bidding agent or some kind of a financial planner who can basically go pick the investments for us and so such

01:20:11,430	that they mature at the at the right time, so we can Max That interest, um and that we would have to do essentially tomorrow. Um, this week immediately. The. Next thing that would have to happen is Morton’s escrow would would need to be funded and we’re back at the same.

01:20:29,000	I mean the same options we’ve talked about in the past. Um I do think the situation has changed if the commission wishes We can approach Morton again, Um, with these new circumstances and see if they’re willing to reconsider.

01:20:50,970	Um but they their escrow would have to be funded for this to work one way or one way or another, Um The the next thing we would have to do is kind of go to step number one is we’d have to reinvest the funds that we liquidated obviously and going back to the bidding agent, um some kind of finance professional to to pick those items for us.

01:21:06,400	We would have to, um, you know, with all of these items You know with a short notice we might have to pay a premium. I don’t know. You know, I don’t know how busy people are.

01:21:23,130	But generally speaking, I mean money talks, and so, um, it could be the case where you have to pay a premium to get these done on our timeline. Um But just that interest rate risk alone, I. I was hundreds of thousands of dollars and so from my perspective, a few $1000 in fees. It’s just not material. Uh what the next thing we have to do is verify our investments with a CPA firm.

01:21:43,870	Uh, that they do these verification reports and there is one on the bond. Um Gosh. I thought I had them on the list here. It looks like it’s Robert Thomas. I would assume they can do this report. I think they did. They must have done the previous report because they’re in the bond documents. But that’s uh, not a very costly report to do.

01:22:02,000	Um, but again if we’re if we’re expediting it, we might have to pay a premium. I don’t I don’t think it would be more than a few $1000. But. We would have to to start that process immediately.

01:22:15,730	Um, the next thing we would have to do is we would we would be working with the Bond Council on this because there’s a number of people who who need to bless this, including the insurer. Um, the underwriter. Certainly and and the escrow agent and and, you know, just there’s just a laundry list of people who need to, uh, approve these things. So.

01:22:38,200	We would that would be another step is to Work with with, um Scott Wagner and anything that you know any blind spots we have. I’m I’m Sure. I’ve got many, but he can tell us what we what we’re missing. Um The the other option. It’s on the agenda. I’ll mention it briefly is is the thought of repurchasing our bonds as an investment.

01:22:54,870	Would re. I put it on the on the agenda, but we did not complete finish that discussion. Um, we’re we will. Maybe this week. Um, talk to we’re we’ve been talking to the underwriters and to to Bond Council about literally buying our own debt and what that would look like and can we get a better

01:23:14,100	investment than a Treasury, for example? But. We can talk and that’s again. It’s the commission’s, uh, it’s up to the commission. It’s just a thought that came up but we’ll have more information about that. The Defeasance is the big priority.

01:23:32,400	You know if the bonds are out there on the market till 2032 The The advantage of buying your own debt is you pay interest to yourself? So, you know, just to be clear. It’s just that the money instead of going out the door, it would it would come back or you extinguish the debt and and then it’s gone and you don’t have to pay those interest payments in the future.

01:23:47,600	But so That’s. That’s that we can talk about that at a later date when we’re when we have more information. So. Really where we’re at is, um it’s the commission’s decision. You. You know whatever you want us to do. We will do our best. Whatever timeline. You, um, you select, but just to To wrap up.

01:24:09,930	I have here a request for permission. Approval as I sit here as I was sitting there thinking about it. I thought I wonder if this stuff is covered under the, um, resolution that the commission voted on with Morton wherein we basically authorized the county auditors of, um Beley and Morton to sort of Basically

01:24:29,200	wrap this up. Uh, I’m Not. Sure. So I put put. A point of that is I don’t know if there’s a resolution, uh, resolution or a vote needed in here, but the steps that I’ve got here is just to recap Permission to liquidate our holdings at BND permission to contract with the bidding agent or financial

01:24:44,870	planner, Permission to buy securities to fund the escrow with their bidding agent permission to contract with the verification agent and guidance as to whether we should approach Morton. Second time about The this escrow agreement.

01:25:08,530	So and by the way, if we do all this stuff, and then Circumstances change and we decide to go out to Q three. I mean, we can. We can work with that. This is not gonna be catastrophic. We can honestly It might cost a couple $1000.

01:25:24,330	You might have to get verified a second time, you know at that future date, but I, I don’t think it’s gonna be Be a big deal. If we go through all this stuff, and then we decide or circumstances dictate that we cannot defeat this bond at at the end of the second quarter. I know that was a Humongous data dump. Um, I apologize for that, but I would be happy to stand for questions. You. You’re right. That was a lot.

01:25:48,800	Um, I think one of the bigger concerns I would have is Part of what I caught there is that the the June election on whether or not a a sales tax passes Has, some bearing on the path that we would take moving forward. That It could Yes I. I would think Fisher Woodcock.

01:26:14,900	I I After all they looking at all this. I know it’s a decision we’re gonna have to make, but, uh, we have that election coming up and and I think that this is an opportunity for, uh Burle County says to reduce their property tax, which we’ve had a lot of property tax discussion, the statewide and

01:26:31,000	local, but this is the chance that we have for Bernie County to reduce their own property tax, and it is reduction. It’s not a passing on to a different thing or anything like this.

01:26:48,070	They can reduce the their property tax and 40% of that tax money coming in comes from out of out of Berley County, so it’s a real advantage for us to pass that and reduce, keep by keeps and reduce, but it is to reduce the Portion of property tax. I don’t think we need to make a decision tonight, which will throw a fog on that election. I think that election is very important and Uh, The state.

01:27:08,070	Whether that that that, uh, thing gets on the ballot that has nothing to do with us. Uh, we are trying very hard to reduce the property tax and and we keep saying that saying that, but I don’t want to make a have us make a decision tonight whether it’s a good one, a bad one or whether we postpone it.

01:27:21,700	That’s only three or what? Three weeks away for the election. Uh um I don’t say table it, but I say Kick the can down the road for another month and wait for Morton County. See what they they wanna do, but, uh, that election is so important for the citizen of Berda County. I would agree with that. Comm.

01:27:40,600	Comm. munson. Thank you chair so a couple of clarification points that I just want to ask so on this report, currently We have Collected 3,000,003 $0.7 million of sales tax up and above what it would cost us to defeat our portion of the construction bond.

01:28:04,870	And so We’re waiting for Morton County to catch up to that. Point of Defeasance so we can set this. Let this go Um, the one point I wanted to double check you had said so we’re currently paying two point 252.5% on our interest for the bond. And we’re investing.

01:28:26,800	Uh, so the money that we’ve collected in sales tax in other investments that are creating more than that, so we’re gaining money. Uh, every month in in interest. You’re saying that we could gain more. If we Sell the stocks that we currently have by different ones at through the Bank of North Dakota, so they’re satisfied with it, but we could earn more. By buying better I. Think. What.

01:28:52,330	What I’m concerned about is we have to match uh, to maximize our return. We have to match our investments with the maturity of the debt. We basically have you know eight or 10 different bonds that mature yearly, So we wanna make an investment or so our bond payment, for example, is, uh, November 1st.

01:29:12,130	We want an investment that matures, you know, October, 30th or October 31st, So. We get interest up to that last day And then the next day we make the payment.

01:29:31,930	So that’s why we’ve so if we S so and our our our investments now, although they are in excess of what we’re paying for interest, they’re not structured for this, Um, maturity table because we just aren’t at that point yet, But, um But if we choose to Whenever we go to defeat the bond.

01:29:48,630	We will have to just liquidate everything and reinvest it mostly, so it matures at the right time, because I think right now we’ve got a couple that are gonna mature and, you know, January of 2025. It’s just, you know, we’d have to reinvest them because our next payment would be may 1st for interest, so it wouldn’t wouldn’t really do us any good and with with the escrow, we have to have them invested.

01:30:06,070	I mean in guaranteed, you know, return and we can’t touch them, so it’s kind of a one and Thing. We get them invested out to maturity. We send it off to the verification agent and they say yes. You know this will this will pay for the bond. So. It’s more so, yes, that will maximize a return. But.

01:30:25,330	It’s more so about matching the maturity of the investment with the debt payment. Mhm. In. My my personal opinion at this point is May 20th, and the June election is only three weeks away. The 11th that’s only 21 days from now. I don’t think we need to muddy up any water. I think.

01:30:52,170	There’s a lot of information here to consider, and it makes sense to me to look towards increasing interest rate and the whole thing, but Until that sales tax measure passes. I think we should just Hang on. I don’t know.

01:31:15,600	I’m not seeing a significant downside risk in waiting 21 days or until after the June 11th election you Probably not, um I am a little bit concerned with this timeline of interest rates going down is already said, but If that happens in the next couple of weeks. I mean, you know, what are you gonna do? But? Wait too long. You. Think, Um, interest rates are gonna go down on the national I mean I. I have no idea. It’s a F. To me. It’s a 5050. Well there are 5.

01:31:32,130	5 they go to 55 and a quarter go up or they go down. It’s a coin flip. I’m. I don’t know that anything’s gonna happen. Yeah. I don’t I don’t see that happening, not I. Don’t have a crystal ball, but I just don’t see much of a change in the next month or two.

01:31:49,070	Mr Bachman in your conversations with Morton County, or were they going to have an opportunity to present this information to their county commission as well and If. We waited on this. Then. We’d have a little bit better idea of the direction they decided to go. For their benefit as well.

01:32:04,700	I don’t know if we got to the level I think I want I think at the time we wanted to come back to this commission. I don’t know that we got to that point. I did send on everything we have. So. Maybe, She’s, um, out the conversation with Don and out a little bit.

01:32:17,670	Yeah, but it didn’t get to the level of will you please? You know and see if if she plans on doing that, Yes, we can do that. You know just to clarify, you know, my my comment about you know if the election if the sales tax passes with this change, I didn’t mean to imply that we

01:32:36,670	can pay this off. But. We’re choosing not to what I meant to say. Is this issue with Morton’s still, you know, Owing money would still be there. So if we wanted to, If the, um sales tax measure passes and we wanted to pay it up, we would have to do something with that five or 600,000.

01:32:56,000	Dollars that if that makes sense. Mm. It. Does Mr Chair Comm. W. One thing we want to emphasize is that the sales tax is being voted on in in three weeks is a one cent sales tax, the half cent sales tax that was for the jail will sunset and it will sunset.

01:33:14,070	The new one if it’s past will not take effect until the F the half sent as sunset. We will never double up on it. We’re not going to have a 1.5% sales tax for a month or two or whatever, Uh, it’ll.

01:33:31,600	It’ll clearly cut off and it’ll the new one if it’s passed, will We start at immediately at the same time, so ah! The spread. We get between 2.5% 5.5%. I is significant. That’s where we’re making All this money is because we got we We borrowed it. 2.5 we L were essentially lending it out at 5.5. So. Uh, we want to keep that spread there if it turns out to be a quarter percent less.

01:33:51,000	I’d rather I’d rather wait for a month and make that decision down the road or there. But, June 20th meeting and and, uh, we’ll deal with Morton County. They can they have to make their own decision and and we certainly want to respect that? That That. They are allowed to do their own thing. And.

01:34:06,530	Uh, we get this done. We’ll have it done by the end of the year. No matter what I think So, uh I think we just move on and W and hopefully a citizen Bismarck will or and be. The County will realize they’re they’re getting a sales tax. Uh, property tax reduction, absolute reduction, so That’s the goal.

01:34:27,670	I don’t want to muddy up the water, so if it’s all right with you guys, we’ll just Hang on. I’m not asking for a motion. Comm. Bach. I. I have a question for you. Uh, Isn’t there a timeline? Say the sales tax passes.

01:34:50,870	We have to get That has to be in it Doesn’t that have to be in effect. During budget time or we can’t use it because it’s a future. Item. That You know we can’t say Well. The sales tax is going to bring an X amount of dollars because we don’t have it until No, No, I can’t. II. I think I can tell you my understanding of that.

01:35:14,770	Is that we’re not going to budget for future sales tax our our intent, and I think a language and everything that we’ve been using is that budgets will be based on dollars in hand. Not, not some future projection or anything so You know it’s it? I guess a short way of saying it is.

01:35:40,000	It’s not an instant property tax. Uh, Re relief instantly because we have to have the tax. It’s. It’s just prudent to have the dollars in hand. Before. We can say That’s what we have spent, and and I think the citizens expect that kind of responsibility from us and that’s what they’re going to get. Anything else? OK.

01:36:11,800	We’re gonna put some whole Great presentation. You guys appreciate it. County planning director Flanagan City of Lincoln Service Agreement and CRS application. And that’s not can’t remember stuff. Right? OK? You commissioners. Uh, the first item is the service agreement. The City of Lincoln.

01:36:48,870	We upgraded the existing, UM, Agreement joint powers agreement with them for the, uh, issuing permits and doing building inspections. We’ve had one in place since 2021 this one here. Uh, it’s the third item down. The on the agreement is including the floodplain regulations for specific standards. Um, anytime we see a property that’s within the floodplain or in the special flood hazard areas.

01:37:12,330	We go through that, Uh, review for flood perming flood permitting requirements. This was not in there in the previous one. And. They want to get this straightened out so they can qualify for the NF IP. OK? So. OK. We’ll take that first. OK? Move to approve the service agreement. Second motion a second to approve any further discussion, Comm.

01:37:35,730	W the fees that we collected when you That’s the only thing we’re getting is the fees, right? They aren’t paying us up per diem per month or anything like that. Is that adequate to pay for the service that we’re we’re providing. Well, it’s it does pay for the services. Um floodplain regulations.

01:37:56,970	There are not many properties in this in in, uh um in their jurisdiction, but, um, when they when they do when they do come up, then we have to do a Quite a bit of review on it required floodplain certificates. Elevation certificates before and after we have to do reviews site plans a lot exhibits and that sort of thing, But it it’s For for City of Lincoln.

01:38:16,930	There’s not that many properties that it’s gonna cause a problem for increased staff time. That sort of thing. So are we making Are we breaking even I certainly don’t want to fall behind where we’re subsidizing the city of Lincoln or Emmons County.

01:38:33,730	We do that with emergency management and, uh, we’re helping him out, or are we carrying an extra employee because we have these service agreements that we don’t want to do that either. No. Um I wouldn’t say that we’re we’re carrying an extra employee to do this. These permitting down there, but I mean our our flood Our. Our building permit.

01:38:53,730	The fee structure should be reviewed sometime this year. And it’s my opinion that the mechanical um In. The plumbing permits are quite low but usually around $60. And we end up doing sometimes 2 to 3. Well at least two, sometimes three or four inspections on that is that 60 on each inspection or just 1 $60.

01:39:17,230	I would, uh, let’s review those ASAP because, uh, We certainly don’t want to fall behind on these things. We’re we’re providing them a great service. Whether they Realize I hope they realize it. Big responsibility. Yes, it is. OK, sorry. No, no problem whatsoever. So the Your motion. This is an amendment to the existing service agreement. Right.

01:39:48,670	So when When does this expire then, uh, there it goes from month to month. Uh and it’s It can be, um Just an ongoing uh, service agreement that they can change it at they’ll give us 130 day notice if they don’t want to do it anymore. Sure, so and you know, I mean, The reason I ask is because the Comm.

01:40:07,500	Woodcock’s question about the the fees and the you know different rates for the permits, If if we came up with a need for a change, we can adopt that relatively quick and under the terms of this, right? Yeah, this this this policy or agreement has nothing to do with the permit fees themselves.

01:40:26,470	I mean they we don’t They don’t correspond with this as far as this agreement with the city of Lincoln they they have never asked us for our fees. Well. Actually, I. Guess. That’s true because the the fees apply in all of Burle County, OK? C ro. Comm. schwab? Yes Comm.. Woodcock. Yes Comm. Munson. Yes, Comm. ben Yes Chair.

01:40:52,070	Yes motion carries. CRS application. Yeah. The Next item is is four to to begin the application for the community rating system. As part of the, um It’s an incentive program that FEMA offers a NF IP offers that, um, basically, uh, will allow a percentage of of reduction to those fees. If you Meet their requirements. It is a big lift.

01:41:22,500	Um, every year. They do they do one year yearly audits, and they do five year audits and there’s roughly 7475 requirements or responsibilities of Burle County has to come up with To meet these But The idea that this Ah CRS program is a good thing for the people in this county.

01:41:43,330	It does reduce some somewhat, um I, don’t they? They basically say that you’re not going to see a big, uh Reduction in the fees for the first five years until FEMA does their five year annual Um, audit.

01:42:01,630	The ISO will do a yearly audit to make sure that we’re meeting those requirements, but F MA does a five year audit and that’s when they They come in, actually meet and so on site and go. Some look at some of the properties. But the idea is this is a cost share between, um, the emergency manager, Management Department and the water Resource district.

01:42:20,400	They they I had a meeting with them about two weeks ago to discuss this application. And. We wanna get these documents right? We don’t cause it’s There are there’s a tremendous amount of documents we have to provide to them. Mitigation plans, Flood mitigation plans Safety safety requirements safety plans and for for probably up to five different apartments in Burle County.

01:42:43,170	And, So it’s It is a big lift. It’s a big a lot of work. They, are they? They suggested it cost could cost up to $20,000. That was, uh, with the, uh Um Houston, not Houston. Um Michael, Gun engineer.

01:43:07,100	So Did you have that conversation? I mean the the actual cost share conversation with the water resource district because I know we were, They said it could be up to $20,000. Are. They agreeable to fund half of that 20,000. That. I, Don’t. I think the share the cost shares with the emergency manager? I don’t know if they’re gonna They have the money. So. They gonna share that. They, um What? Yeah.

01:43:32,930	They share the cost of that, OK, because I I didn’t have a chance to look at any, um, agendas or meeting minutes to know if they had Determine that at that board level or not, we did discuss it at the, uh, last week’s, um Water Resource district, the resource meeting.

01:43:55,200	We did discuss it and they were gonna You know there was no talk about the sharing the cost or anything like that. We haven’t written up an agreement or anything. But. The idea is that Do. We want to join the CRS program number one. And. The cost share is already going to be paid for through emergency management. And, the water Resource district. Comm. Munson.

01:44:18,170	Mitch had a meeting with, uh The Bismarck Bley meeting here a month or so ago, the city of Bismarck offered Resources to you to help you through this process because they’ve been through it. They’ve been doing it now for Eight years. Seven years.

01:44:39,630	Uh and so they’ve got a proven track record, and they’ve offered all the help that you need to make sure you navigate these waters as well, Right. Yeah talked to, uh, Brady about it, and we went over some of the things that he has, uh with records, and then the, uh, the emergency manager, Um Can’t think of his name. That.

01:44:59,800	He’s he would probably be the go to person for that, because he’s the coordinator. Brady helps with it. Um, and there’s actually three employees with the city of Bismarck that does their CRS program. Thank you. So based on my understanding of it, the CRS program could result in lower insurance rates for citizens in burly county. Probably the only question is is is the Subsequent savings.

01:45:23,330	Equal to the 20,000, and it seems to me it would be so it seems, you know, to make sense to move ahead with roughly. It’s a $14,000 a year. Savings, according to the document we have for a $20,000 expense. Yeah. So.

01:45:43,600	Was there a question on whether we, um move forward or not, I would move to approve moving forward second motion to second. You further discussion. No call the roll. Comm. Bakken? Yes. Comm. S. Uh, schwab. What Comm. schwab? Yes Comm. woodcox Yes Comm. Munson Chair. Bittner Ocean carries Um Mr Chair.

01:46:09,330	I’m not sure I did miss the last water resource and district meeting also, but it was on the agenda. I know they did discuss it, and I’m sure they’re moving forward with it so Well, obviously, if they have issues with it, they just got to get back with us, and we’ll just Deal with it. OK. Um, Next item is Comm. Munson request for funding for the Lewis and Clark Development Group.

01:46:28,470	Thank you chair as we discussed a month or so ago when we Realize. We had not been involved as well as we should have been with the Lewis and Clark Development group. Um, we are now we’ve reassigned that portfolio, so we’re back in tune with them. Um, I just wanted to ask Your consideration.

01:46:51,400	Uh, for the last year, uh, payment of $92,000. I certainly understand that it’s not in our budget, but I just wanted to, uh, bring it back to the table and And see what the appetite was. Well. I can tell you.

01:47:12,670	We had this discussion before and the decision at the time was to do nothing about it because we did not. Um Uh, Tax for it correct. And, I guess as the chair. I’m not sure why we want to keep on bringing up something that we’ve already decided. But. Uh, you know, I’m not going to be offended by the request commissioners.

01:47:44,670	What are your thoughts? I would be in favor of, uh Fully funding this next budget cycle. Um I’m a little Leery of something that was not budgeted for because we seem to have a lot of those issues that pop up that we’re not budgeted for. Um, I fully see the value with the Lewis and Clark development portfolio, and, uh, with the organization does, um But.

01:48:07,930	I would like to see See it back in the budget next budget cycle. OK? Sweet commission thoughts. I would like to get a Please. A complete list of who benefits from these funds. Not just private enterprise, But, our park boards. Uh other boards benefiting from these funds. Um So. We can have an idea where this money is going. I. Guess.

01:48:40,830	My. My question really is why are we funding it? You know there’s there was a state law that created it, but I think somebody figured out how to create their own job. You know this is work. That was gonna happen and I’m just not so sure that Ah There’s a requirement for us to to.

01:48:58,870	It’s like a membership fee, and I don’t I kind of love this with furious and diversion and that Requirement to that. Well. That is an actual that’s a mill every requirement. That’s a law, Mr Woods. I know we’ve been a member a long time and and we have funded it before, and I’ve questioned every year that long.

01:49:18,430	What do we get what is said of Bede County. Get for $90,000, and they have come before us and presented some things and Some of it was dubious numbers that I never understood and wasn’t completely convinced that it was for Bertie County citizens it was for Bueller, Hazen and Morton County and and other places anyway, My thought

01:49:42,270	is they didn’t even come to present a request. And that bothered me that they didn’t didn’t know we were working on it, or we should be working on it. We weren’t working on it. They never did come and make a request, And.

01:49:59,300	We require that of I think everybody at the library and anybody with that W that W that we fund the citizen, the Senior Citizen Center. They didn’t bother, And that bothered me more than anything else. So if they wanna come Make another presentation. Then. I’d be glad to listen to it.

01:50:14,730	Not that I would approve it the next year, but we certainly could put it on the agenda and discuss it, like other items that we go through all the time. We have budget hearings coming up and and I fully agree with that I’ve been on the board for a year and a half didn’t know it so So.

01:50:32,470	I will do my best to put this together for budget cycles so that we all have a good presentation as to what it does fund. I will get the list for Comm. Schwab of all of the entities that do benefit from it, and, uh, present at the budget hearing. Another one. We need a list from is the Water Resource Council. Are they the ones that run To.

01:50:51,200	Run the garrison diversion or is it no Conservancy? That would be the State Water Commission. Yes, it is. I don’t know who there are another. There are another one that is funding all kinds of stuff that has nothing. To do with they’re supposed to be doing Oh, yeah. Like And. I think we have to give them a mill? Yes.

01:51:09,300	We do we have a four M? On $660,000 last night that you sign to put a stop to that. We can’t Comm.. I’m Sorry Go ahead I I visit with, uh Comm. Hawkinson who fought the same battle you’re talking about 15 or 20 years ago because we kept giving him a meal and and it never changed.

01:51:29,130	It was in it in the concept to in the the state Constitution. We’re stuck and he tried everything he went to every meeting. I think I went to the governor’s office two or three times and fought his hardest. And if anybody has got a bull He’s got one. So. Uh, we never could get out of it. And.

01:51:45,770	Another thing that bothers me about that one is that martin County right across the river. The River is the water they’re talking about. They aren’t even a member. So where’s the justification in that? You know Well don’t Comm. would really bothered me about it is I asked him how many Feet of Canal or water line they put in When.

01:52:05,300	This first came up, and, uh Well, none in the last year. Well, then what the hell are they doing? What. What. What good are they That’s my point, So. We do have some legislators living in this town. They need to get on it.

01:52:25,230	That would probably be the most helpful thing is action that the legislative level So. You made the point. Thank you. OK, well, now that we’re on our soap box, and I mentioned one more Yeah before I get on my end you go. The State Medical Association or the UN D. We. Give them a mill 600 something. $1000. What. Do we get out of that.

01:52:50,200	Now they’ll they’ll come up and say, Well, we provide 280 doctors every year and they come back and all that, but That’s another one that got a burn under my saddle for More. No. No, uh, any anything that relates to taxes and the people’s well being It all comes down to property tax.

01:53:08,800	That’s where they’re all funded by so we have a big saddle. Yeah, I was just thinking that OK, that gives us things to talk about another day. Um, last item on the agenda except for other businesses.

01:53:30,730	Is that our last county commission meeting I brought up some things and I didn’t have my notes with me and I got contact from people after the meeting that that wanted some clarification on what the laws were. What the what the easements might have said in different things like that, so I thought it’d be fair. To, bring my notes and describe those things that, um, that caused me some concern.

01:53:52,070	So in case anybody Needs to know we have an actual lease agreement. Um, that was for land that I that my family and I own up at Beulah and we chose not to sign it, but that’s why I’m I’m talking about it. So during the process of this lease agreement for carbon sequestration. Um We. We obviously had to read it. No.

01:54:12,330	We didn’t have any. We didn’t have any input or any negotiations or anything on the easements. And as I go through a couple of these points, you’ll you’ll probably see why that is first off. There was a question about the royalties that are getting paid to people in different areas.

01:54:28,930	One of the things to point out is that in our Lease, um, they they are paying us apparently more money than they’re paying in in leases around in other sequestration areas. And. I said. Well. Why is that and they said Well because we hired a consultant to come up with a A. You know a a royalty payment.

01:54:48,370	And. The. Other ones were all based on Min coda power plants. Lease agreements. And. So. Some of this stuff, apparently, um, the same lease agreements from what I understand are being used throughout the the area where sequestration Uh, projects are going on.

01:55:18,470	And that was I was talking to the land guy from, uh um Who’s representing our lease arrangement, and he said they are legal department told him that the lease that we have is essentially what the lease well is the lease from Min Coda. So.

01:55:34,370	There were some people that called me from center and want me to come up there and present a little bit and I’m happy to do that. Um, but just so that, you know, apparently, most of these leases are just about carbon copies of of every one of them.

01:55:56,470	So, Um, In our case, they They say that the royalty that they’re paying their family Um and it and and, uh, misconception because the royalty that they pay per ton goes to what’s called the Amalgamation unit. Not to the individual landowners so they’ll pay a royalty of a dollar 70 a ton of carbon dioxide, they sequester underground, but then your payment assuming you’re in the in, the thing is dependent on the amount of land that you own in the amalgamation unit and so

01:56:18,500	in our case, just for clarity that that that ends up being, um, this is important for later on, Uh, the family ends up getting 2.55 cents per ton, while Or 70 a ton.

01:56:36,770	Sounds good if they’re injecting multimillion tons per year, But for us, it ends up being what do they define the size of a unit as Well. In our case. It’s a good question. In our case is that a in our case, the facility area. Is the land described by tracts and exhibit being shown on exhibit A containing 1 15,979 0.2 Acres more or less So. In our case. This is just shy of 16,000 acres.

01:56:58,330	Um there’s a bunch of things that ah Uh, that that thing calls for a surface access and it’s just the people know I. Don’t I’m not sure that people understand what was in their leases, but the lesser grants lessee the right of reasonable use of the surface of the leased premises, including without limitation.

01:57:13,530	The rights of ingress and egress are where the prison or the property, uh, for purpose of any surveys or ongoing testing something for the how, however, the less he shall compensate lesser as tenants for any physical damages to growing crops, crops and anything else.

01:57:33,070	Um, if such damage is caused by the lessee So the lease further gives them the ability to essentially use the surface for Whatever purpose they want if they want to put a building or if they want to put a whatever on there, that’s that’s covered in here. They can they can pretty much do whatever they want there.

01:57:48,470	Um I’ll go to the the pages where I have the, uh OK so one of the concerns, then is the the, uh, payments that you will get as far as uh uh, a royalty. In the amalgamation unit. Um, is based on the amount of storage substance they put into the storage facility. And so that you understand storage facility is poor space and I’ll.

01:58:14,600	Get to that, but one of the clauses in this lease, Um and I’ll read it just so that there’s no question storage operator, which is the people doing the thing storage operator may accept and receive into the storage facility. Any storage substances in whatever amount storage operator Expedient for storage operations.

01:58:40,000	Being stored in any other reservoir, subsurface stratum or formation permitted by the commission for the Storage of carbon dioxide under chapter 3872 of the North Dakota century code. This is important the receipt.

01:59:06,530	Of such storage substances into the storage facility, meaning from other places, right the receipt of that into the storage facility shall be disregarded for the purposes of calculating the royalty under these terms. OK. How lck is that one now that that’s just I’m just going to leave that one right there. OK on the summit here. Yeah. Anybody from Summit here. OK now under use of water in section 8.

01:59:30,530	2 storage operator shall have and is hereby granted free use of water from the facility area for storage operations except water from any well lake pond or irrigation ditch of a poor space owner notwithstanding, the foregoing storage operator may access any well lake or pond as provided in the exhibit D.

01:59:50,200	So you get free water, too, Um, waiver of rights to partition and this is one thing that I don’t think anybody really understood this one. Each party here to agrees that during the existence of this agreement, it will not resort to any action to partition any tract or parcel within the facility area or the facilities used in the development or operation thereof. And. To that extent waves the benefits or laws authorizing such partition.

02:00:14,430	Now as a landowner. What that tells me is I couldn’t sell you. I couldn’t even give you land if I wanted to Comm. Munson. Want it. Um Well. Yeah. You might you might you might be a reason You want it? Um, but then so one guy that called me from center said. Well.

02:00:35,330	That’s not in our That’s not that it doesn’t say that, uh, this thing that we’re talking about with the land and the poor space going to the state of North Dakota. I said. Yeah. It is because you just haven’t read the thing. See that what? I Just read you.

02:00:52,730	Portions of was was just the overall storage agreement. OK. Then it goes on to the exhibit D, which is the actual pore space lease. Um Four space. What is that the ground under? Well? It’s? It’s a really good question. I’ll tell you what the law calls it. Well. I. Gotta be home. Hey, you’re just gonna have to wait, you know? Um Poor space. Yes.

02:01:19,930	Definition of pore space. Uh, Geological storage is defined as the permanent or short term underground storage of carbon dioxide in a storage reservoir. Reservoirs are defined as a subsurface sedimentary stratum, formation cavity or void. Poor space is divide is defined as a cavity or void within the subsurface sedimentary stratum.

02:01:57,330	Big words I know, but it’s a Vacant spaces They’re gonna It’s funny you would mention vacant space because that’s what I thought to begin with. It’s not vacant space. You know it is a salt water. It’s a saline aquifer and that that’s going to come up here in just about a minute, too.

02:02:13,800	Um, so the saline aquifer contains mineral grains of sand. Yeah, I used to think it was just a bucket of sand and you’d poke this stuff down in there couldn’t be further from the truth. Um, let me make these other points before I. Get on to that one.

02:02:30,600	So, uh, This was the really big one that got my attention under ownership. Says less. He shall at time at all times be the owner of the carbon dioxide and other gasses substances stored in the reservoir or any amalgamated reservoirs and all facilities constructed or installed are theirs. It goes on.

02:02:48,700	They’ll have the right but not the obligation at any time to remove any of that, And, That’s all fine of Danny and you go on not with notwithstanding the foregoing Title to the storage facility. And to the stored carbon dioxide or other gasses.

02:03:15,800	Gasses substances shall be transferred to the state of North Dakota upon issuance of a certificate of project completion by the commission in accordance with Chapter 38 38-22 of the North Dakota century code. So the important point that I’m pointing out is that section 38-22 is what first got my attention. So North Dakota Central Code 30. Dash 22. And.

02:03:34,100	That was a big one for me to have to point out because then that further leads into another one, but after have to give me a give me a chance to OK. That’s The big things on those. So. Then. I says to a legislator. I says, What’s this with? Uh Uh, this poor space lease that refers to a state law. That basically gives away my poor space. Or my family’s poor space. And Seoul. Um, um, to give him full credit.

02:03:58,570	This was Senator Mem. And, and he asks the question of of a gentleman by the name of Jeffrey. Uh, no, That’s Jim. Uh Austin Gunderson, who, according to this email is counsel. So. He’s an attorney for North Dakota Legislative Council. So.

02:04:24,730	We’re we’re asking through the legislator for some information on this particular issue, so I’m just going to read the email. Um, I, don’t make anything up, says Good. Afternoon, Senator Mam. This email is in response to your questions regarding amalgamation and transfer of title chapter 38-22 of the North Dakota century code was enacted in Senate, bill 295 and in 2009, introduced by the natural resource Committee on behalf of the Industrial Commission.

02:04:53,570	So chapter 38-22 code provides a controlling laws relating to carbon dioxide underground storage section 28-32 Dash 03 grants the Industrial Commission authority to issue permits for the geological storage of carbon dioxide. So. That’s no problem so far. Geologic storage is what I already read. I won’t read that.

02:05:13,270	Because that tells you what poor space is so before a permit is issued, the commission must find a variety of factors have been completed, including that the storage operator has obtained the consent of at least 60% of the storage reservoirs. Poor space among the landowners, So in my case up at Beulah.

02:05:30,570	The situation is the Basin Electric and the cat mining company owned the majority of the land all around us, so they automatically do that 60% thing, But I’m here to tell you the Constitution of the United States. Doesn’t say you have these land rights up and up until 60% of the people say you don’t just so you know that’s coming up.

02:05:49,100	Um So, uh, that all non consenting poor space owners are or will be equitably compensated now equitable compensation as compared to what’s in the Constitution is that if you and I are in the same game, you get paid the same thing I get paid that’s equitable. The Constitution requires just compensation. So.

02:06:13,270	Just compensation is what gets determined by a judge and jury in court. That’s an important distinction. You’re probably going to hate me for T telling you guys all this but for the remaining non consenting landowner section 38-22 Dash 10 allows the commission to include and subject the pore space owned by non consenting landowners to geological storage. OK so under section 38-22 Dash 16.

02:06:36,070	The storage operator holds title to the carbon dioxide injected into the storage reservoir and holds tidal until the commission issues a certificate of project completion. While, the storage operator holds title The operator is liable for any damage the carbon dioxide may cause so under section 38-22 Dash 17. Once.

02:06:59,000	The carbon dioxide injected, has completed and 10 years has passed. The Commission may issue a certificate of completion, once issued title to the storage facility and to the stored carbon dioxide transfers to the state without payment of any compensation, as illustrated by law by the law. It says So in section 6.

02:07:22,470	8, it says once the certificate is issued Title to the storage facility and to the stored carbon dioxide transfers without payment of any compensation to the state. Then B title acquired by the state includes all rights and interests in and all responsibilities associated with the carbon dioxide. OK, I’ll. Fast forward a little bit to our storage facility.

02:07:46,470	Is defined as the reservoir underground equipment and surface facilities and equipment used or proposed to be used in the geological storage operation. It does not include pipelines used to transport carbon dioxide to the storage facility. It appears there is no information as to why the transfer of title includes the reservoir itself.

02:08:06,130	They’d also appears ambiguous as the chapter does not grant title to the poor space owned by the landowners through the storage operator. The storage operator only has title over the carbon dioxide stored within the reservoir. However, there was another bill passed in 2009 of importance. So Senate Bill 2139 again in 2009 enacted a new chapter to title 2047. Relating to ownership of subsurface pore space.

02:08:35,600	Chapter 4731 was enacted to reduce litigation, enhance comprehensive management and promotes the security and stability useful for economic development, environmental protection and government operations. So under chapter 47-31.

02:08:58,070	Title to poor space, and this is where it gets kind of weird title to poor space in all strata underlying the surface of the land and the water is vested in the owner of the overlying surface estate. Any conveyance of title to the surface of real property also conveys the poor space in all strata underlying the surface of the real property, however, title to poor space may not be severed from title to the surface of the real property, overlying the poor space any

02:09:22,000	instrument or arrangement that seeks to sever title to poor space from tidal to the surface is void as to the severance of the poor space from the surface interest. And. Finally Leasing Poor space is not a severance pro prohibited Uh, by the chapter.

02:09:41,800	It appears this chapter would prohibit any contract from transferring title of pore space within a lease agreement. I have attached chapter references below. I. Hope you find this information helpful. Please re reach out if you have any additional questions. And. Then it just goes on to talk about the actual, um, different laws. So the problem that I had with that thing.

02:09:58,870	Is that if the pore space transfers to the state of North Dakota without payment of any compensation, and you can’t sever the poor space from the titles. Surface title. Does that drag along the surface Tidal with the P spec because it appears that way. And. So then you ask yourself well.

02:10:21,770	That all happened because there was a question about, um, this is the poor space of mineral right or is a poor space up. Surface rate and so the Legislature decided that the poor space is a surface tidal, right? And then Did I go into the discussion about what kind of minerals are down there in that pore space previously but not, you know.

02:10:43,200	Oh, OK, OK, so I guess my my big deal there is. I don’t need to go into the value of all of those, but I can tell you some of that magnesium that’s down there in that poor space. You know in that saline water, that stuff’s worth $19,400 a ton. You got, uh, aluminum down there and there that’s uh $2553 a ton.

02:11:02,930	That’s not a mineral right? I’m saying it is. Yeah, I’m saying I’m saying you put the you put that carbon dioxide down into my pore space. Only. Two things can happen. You either go into solution with the saline aquifer or you push other stuff away. It’s only two things that can happen under physics.

02:11:22,730	And so what I’m trying to tell you is I don’t want 2.5 cents. Carbon dioxide pushing away my $19,000 per ton of magnesium. Or even the $108 a ton.

02:11:42,570	That’s salt is worth because salt, you know that stuff we put on the road like I told you Early counties most recent price and thanks to Marcus, and these guys was 100 and 8.378 per ton delivered. So if there’s 240 million metric tons in a cubic mile of the salt water in the broom Creek formation, which compares to 100 and 20 parts per million, or 100 and 20. Million metric tons in seawater at 30.

02:12:08,130	2000 parts per million so 64,000 parts per million in the Broom Creek. Gives you 240 million metric tons in a cubic mile. Do. You know what that amount adds up to multiply it out one time. $26,010,720,000 worth of salt if it was just crappy old road salt in burly county. So I think I think I accomplished the goal of of explaining to people.

02:12:33,770	What the, uh the the individual laws were and the fact that I was reading from the actual, um, easements and leases, So if there’s any other questions from folks, um I’d be happy to entertain them or if anybody else wants to have some input on it. I’ll get off that soap box.

02:12:51,330	Thank you very much, gentlemen, for your Patients. I love the education. Thank you? I do. I was gonna have a question, but I can’t remember what it was. Sorry. That was a lot of information in short order. So the payments that the landowners receive.

02:13:09,530	Is that a one time payment or is it a monthly payment for 10 years or in what is it do they vary? And you can make. I can’t speak for all, um E easements. Um, as far as the royalty payments what they’re doing for us.

02:13:30,970	Is, um, there are they’re giving us a certain amount of dollars per surface Acre plus the royalties for injection, and that’s that’ll Be a a once a year payment. And and then, incidentally, another thing that kind of chaps me All of this stuff is being done for tax credits, right? Well in my family, Believe it or not, we’d rather not get the $25,000 a year split between the six people. We’d rather have the tax breaks.

02:13:51,130	I’d say they could keep their money and give me the tax credits and I’d be just as happy, But. I guess That’s not an option because we can’t negotiate under these things. This stuff has gone through the industrial commission. It’s going through these processes. Those guys are walking out there telling the citizens That here’s your Here’s your deal.

02:14:08,730	That’s it. You don’t have any negotiation in this thing, and then and then just people are supposed to appreciate it now. I don’t know about those guys that are only getting 50 cents a ton, because that’s what I hear.

02:14:26,970	They’re offering under these under these other leases, So if I’m upset at 270, or I mean 170 a ton. I can’t imagine being happy at 50 cents. Comm. did the PSC before they voted to approve this project. Did they get all this information and did they analyze it like you’re doing no. Nobody knew this.

02:14:46,770	I’ve I’ve been in contact with landowners all around the state of North Dakota and in particular in Northwest Landowners Association, they’re going. You’re kidding me. This is not that can’t be true. I said. Well, look in the law.

02:15:01,070	Look in the look in and I gotta tell you something that I figured out here recently that it’s a little bit of an aside but it relates to this pipeline, and that’s why this This is really why I’m bringing this up? Did you know That in North, Dakota. We have spent millions and millions of dollars on this research and development to come up with this sequestration thing, And you know why we did that? We did that to protect North Dakota businesses.

02:15:18,900	So these guys are coming in here, and this is why it’s relative to the pipeline because they’re up here telling us Look, we got a We got to enhance the coal, the corn business for the farmers down there, And. I understand that after five years, they might get a 19 cents a bushel. And corn prices.

02:15:37,930	And, then they might have an increase in 15% of ethanol production. Say, but what they’re after is, they’re after this low carbon intensity ethanol. They want to be able to say Look? We’re we’re taking that carbon dioxide out of the process and injecting it underground, right? Seems like an admirable thing to do. Well.

02:16:01,930	I got a news flash for you citizens, North, Dakota Farmers and North Dakota ethanol plants not only have the competitive advantage already because two of our ethanol plants are doing this today.

02:16:23,870	They’re in their capturing that CO2 and injecting an underground in North Dakota, so they locally so they not only have a competitive advantage over these guys because these guys want access to that market, they have not only competitive advantage or market And its dominance. These guys own the market.

02:16:48,400	The, North, Dakota Ethanol plants own this low carbon intensity ethanol market, and they’re thinking that we should just go ahead and give that away to Iowa and Nebraska or Illinois or anybody else that’s wanting to raise corn and have low ethanol. Uh, low carbon intensity ethanol.

02:17:09,400	I can’t for the life of me understand why the state of North Dakota will have invested all those millions? All that research and then just let these guys come up here and by the way, the problem with the injection and the sequestration areas Isn’t so much injecting the stuff even though that’s a bad idea. The speed of injection based on my research is a problem These guys want to inject more than any than all Of. The North Dakota plants combined. And they want to do it lots faster.

02:17:30,030	That’s where we run into the problem, because the physics you know, everybody knows that equal, you know, for every action and opposite and equal reaction and And and whatnot and anyway Sorry to bore you folks. But, You know it’s the price we pay. Yes. Come on up. Come up. Come on up and give your name for the record, please. We want to have to get up here from here.

02:17:53,470	My question is name name, Sir. Uh, Curtis JNT. So, The ND IC, which is three members. That’s our Governor Attorney. General Comm. agriculture. They’re the ones that are dealing with all the support poor based stuff. And. Are there, not hearings coming up here in June. On the permit application for summit on that. I.

02:18:19,070	I assume you’re gonna be at that. OK. I am now, I. I wasn’t gonna be I. I. Didn’t I didn’t occur to me that I needed to be until I learned all you seem You seem to be the Right.

02:18:36,730	Now the smartest guy In the room when Northwest landowners Association, you know they’re not aware of a lot of this so Yeah, that’s critical. You’re gonna be there. But. You said something that I just want to confirm. So. Your family is getting a percent of an amalgamation area that’s about 16,000 acres.

02:19:02,870	So are you telling me then that that, uh The less so, um Is going to be able to your entire surface because the poor space is under The entire surface that they’re gonna be able to do anything anywhere on that surface. Yes. That’s what it says in the lease, OK, and then they have access to we have to We. We have to go on with the lease. That’s I can’t just disagree with that and and have him write it out of the lease.

02:19:20,400	Because. We’re amalgamated. We’re so 60% If. You don’t sign and you’re one of the 40%. So. You have zero rights. So if you start adding up, you know Uh, a plus B plus C. Uh, so then they have access to any and all water resources on your land. OK. So.

02:19:44,000	Tell me What in the end it if they either Eminent domain, you or whatever they call it on the the poor space here, but it’s like eminent domain if you’re part of the 40% what Do you own What. Does. Anybody in the amalgamation area owned and have rights to if you can’t like you said, give five acres to Comm.

02:20:05,870	Mun Munson or subdivide for your family, or you have to get their permission to build on any of that acreage or do anything on it. Yeah. So. What. What do you own? What does anybody own that’s part of this amalgamation area? I want the people to ask that question because you’re asking it, And.

02:20:21,870	There’s a question you pretty much that’s where I lost your rights. You have no rights anymore. Wow. What a country and at the end of the day if you skip ahead from ABC DE all the way to Element OP. Then who owns your land at the end of the project state. Well it.

02:20:43,470	What is the state gonna do with it if it goes to the state? What does that mean are they getting to Bill Gates? I? Don’t know, I don’t know The. Only thing I can think that maybe was a a reason for that is so that they can control it and maintain it And. If there’s a problem. They have the responsibility.

02:21:00,370	But, then in in that law They’re talking about until or or in this. Material they’re talking about until such time as the federal government takes over. The responsibility of the storage and the material which will be in EPA Superfund, apparently which I mean I don’t know could possibly end up being the case. I. Maybe.

02:21:24,030	I wasn’t clear enough, which comes back. Not, only that we own the surface and the pore space. We are also the mineral rights owners on that land, So. I’m not We’re not dealing with anybody else. So if there’s something of value there Say a cup full of that strontium.

02:21:44,300	Which is pretty heavy stuff and that sells for forum or thorium, and one of them sells for $15 a pound. You know at at £ 2200 per metric ton. That’s. We’re talking substantial money and you know, we’ve we’ve had We’ve all heard about these, um critical minerals We’re finding like, you know, 15 years ago, I didn’t even know what lithium was. Now.

02:22:07,000	We’re doing all these batteries and things. It’s. It’s something that gives somebody when they have, uh, emotional issues. I guess that’s the only thing I know about lithium. But. Now China is using it to make batteries.

02:22:23,130	I’m starting to have some issues with this thing, and that’s why I I really thought it was important that so that the public understands Because You know I. I read the leases. And. It wasn’t until I read it like the fourth time that I figured out. I better look at that. 38-22. And. Then It all started lining up. It’s like, Well, How did this happen? Well, it happened way back in 2009 already K, you know. I. I. Well.

02:22:43,570	Uh, kudos to you for all the research you did on this. Um we’ve all been so fixated on the pipeline. And. Uh, you know this this so that’s the PSC the pipeline. The pipeline is relative, especially to the to the conversation about North Dakota businesses in North, Dakota producers of corn currently own the market.

02:23:08,530	You know nobody else has this going on, even though the Ryan clark from the Iowa utility board testimony I geology department. They say they have that kind of that kind of geology in Iowa. They can they can sequester this stuff in Iowa, but they haven’t done any payments or research or development of it. And. I’m thinking Well.

02:23:30,330	They like to call us like Nimby now nothing personal, but I don’t appreciate being a rural landowner that’s been very involved in agriculture and a mineral owner that it is involved in coal and oil. I don’t appreciate them calling me NIMBY because I have an interest in this state. So You know II.

02:23:52,270	I didn’t really want to get off track on all of that, But. Um, um, I, I think, uh, I. I think that’s really good information. I think that every the the word does need to get out.

02:24:15,200	Um, we’ve all been so focused on the CO2 pipeline, but I think what’s Gonna be even a a more significant liability and detriment to landowners is what you just pointed out right now. And you you basically are you sign this thing, at least to the port space in the Broom Creek? You’ll still have your mineral rights. But.

02:24:32,900	What rights do you really have as a surface owner? And, Uh and eventually will you even be a service owner and that that’s that’s a huge I’m. I’m worried about that? I mean because the law doesn’t give me any confidence here. It. It makes it look like At, the end of 22 years because they’re expecting that this project on our land would be done in about 12 years. And. Then there’s that 10 year waiting period.

02:24:49,170	It seemed like at the end of 22 years. It just walks away on me. Well. See, that’s the same thing of me Renting your garage, Kirk. I’m Gonna Rent your garage for 12 years park my truck in there Now, mind you.

02:25:06,130	I’ll pay you for 12 years Then I go away, then 10 years later I walked back in and I say, Hey, that’s my garage. Kirk. That’s right. Yep you just water rights, so I should say, bottom line, but what can be done to turn this around? I mean are we so far along the line that we nothing can be done to turn this around. I mean we’ve done.

02:25:27,900	Bertie County has done as much as we possibly can. But with the pipeline and and I don’t know whether that’s the end or not, we don’t know. But. Uh, is this project stone already and all? I don’t think we’re worried about is of his minute changes that can be made. I. Don’t Think.

02:25:43,330	So, uh, Zachary Cassidy. I’m with the Dakota Resource Council. I’m, the CO2 pipeline organizer, So I wanted to. First of all introduce myself. Um thank you. Uh uh. Chair bener for your remarks, Um You. You brought up some very important points, but to to your question No.

02:26:06,400	It’s not set in stone, in fact, uh, the original plan was for someone to begin construction of the pipeline this year, thanks to efforts across every state that is involved in this pipeline. Uh, it has been pushed back to 2026 at the very least, uh and and so and and because of the massive size of this pipeline, there are so many ways in which Summit can fail.

02:26:29,330	That’s the Good news. What, do you mean by fail? Uh, I mean, if not the project or or or or have to amend it and further delay and further delay and eventually, it’s just not gonna become financially worth it for them. And investors back out that kind of thing. I mean can I ask a quick question? Yes. If.

02:26:46,870	We have a change in administration Will that affect this project? No I. I can’t speak to speak to that politically soothsayer. Uh III. I. Just I can’t speak to that politically but II. I can say that, uh it is certainly not set in stone.

02:27:07,130	Um, if you know the voters of South Dakota are are are voting on on some things that will determine uh much about the pipeline’s future. Um, there are efforts in Iowa to prevent the pipeline there. So. Uh, you know, E. Every delay means that they have to change their plans, delay their plans or abandon their plans and so Mr Schwab. Did You have a question? Well.

02:27:31,670	The thing that’s going on here is that Every investor in this pipeline. Should be put on notice that when that things start going wrong They Are gonna have a problem on their hand, which includes the state of North Dakota. Because If you go back to that permit. Permit and deal down there in Texas.

02:28:02,730	You’re not gonna just build a fence around this with a sign. Keep out. That is not gonna work up here. The liability. It’s going to be tremendous and that thing will leak. Eventually. It’s gonna hit the right aquifer. We have pollution all the way down.

02:28:27,400	To, the Mississippi delta and every state is gonna be sued North Dakota. In. North Dakota is gonna have to sue. What? John Deere. Who’s four egg, but they’re gonna put our power power plant. At Cold Creek out of business because they’re gonna fill it the port space and then Mhm Cold Creek, Kent. Operate, which brings up another thing. Uh, I was gonna ask, Uh, what was Kurt.

02:28:59,200	What’s his first name, curtis Curtis. Yes, sir. These Ethanol plants. They’re not piping. Fewer carbon, are they Don’t. They have to have water and stuff, mixing that to get it to go through the lines. Is there such a thing as pure carbon. Uh, you’re talking about what? They’re gonna capture off the ethanol stat. Yeah.

02:29:25,930	It’s about 98% CO2 in water vapor, and they’re gonna have to dehydrate it. That’s what the beauty and that’s what Is attracting the oil industry as they’re looking at a 98% Pure Co two coming up here with really no H two S in it or any other contaminants. Um So.

02:29:46,800	There’s This Whole capture facility and My understanding is that there’s an LLC set up. Under summit. For the capture facility. They’re all they’ve they’ve tried to segregate their liability, so it’s not gonna be the capture facility at an ethanol plant is going to be a different LLC. And. Then they will do all the capturing the dehydration and that’ll get shoved into a gathering line.

02:30:12,270	Four inch or six inch And then, uh, compressed. Pumped, compressed sent down till it hits a big trunk line that’s coming up by the way, uh, when they added the other ethanol plants of navigator, we had one pump station in Emmons, Burly County. Now. We’ve got to have four So.

02:30:32,070	You can only add, they call them pump stations. I’m gonna take their word for it. They’re gonna pump in the natural gas industry. We increase capacity. Uh, with compressors, but we once we maxed out the MEOP maximum allowable operating pressure, then we have to start looping pipeline so once they get their corridor There will be nothing to stop them from putting

02:30:52,400	another 24 inch pipeline right alongside that and another one and another one. You know whatever you can fit in 300 ft. So. That’s The Beauty of what now the oil industry is coming after us that and and do you find it somewhat, Uh, coincidental that the oil industry is saying, you know, in 12 years we’re gonna need

02:31:12,230	the CO2. That’s the end of the Q 45 Q credit. There’s no magic in that there’s a lot of technology that can extend the primary production of our of our, uh, horizontal Bakken three forks right now, by Three. They’re doing three and four mile laterals.

02:31:31,400	Now there can ref Frack, So, That’s all cheaper and and there’s a an article that came out just recently. By somebody. I think it’s someone who spoke at the, uh Williston Basin Petroleum conference. Who said, you know Recycling. Well, head gas back.

02:31:53,300	For enhanced oil recovery is probably gonna be much more cost effective, so we the industry is saying, Hey, we’re gonna get a free pipeline. We don’t know if we’re in the 10% of it, 20%, but by the time 1012 15 years comes along. We’re gonna We’re probably gonna be producing enough CO2 through just our natural gas fired generation. And other sources that We might have enough, but this is a single 0.98% pure.

02:32:15,230	You don’t have to, You know you hook up to the end of the pipe and you pipe it out to the Your oil fields so Um, I don’t believe that. Uh, the egg industry is significant benefit of this pipeline. I, don’t I think it’s um I. I.

02:32:37,270	Don’t think the oil industry is Is gonna be in terminal decline if we don’t have the CO2 pipeline. Um and And. Certainly the coal plants don’t need it as we’ve all seen, uh, sequestering nearby, so Now. That’s the whole beauty of this Ethanol and it is benefiting mostly the ethanol industry. They get a 45 Z credit so immediately. Ethanol plants get 55 cents to a dollar a gallon.

02:33:01,070	And. Uh, Red Trail just sent out a thing to their corn growers that they do certain. Oh carbon zero type farming practices. Then the credit and they will get more money, so I mean they’re now they’re trying to Yeah. So there that credit goes up and they can share it with the corn growers.

02:33:21,870	It’s It’s. It’s kind of like, uh, When. We discussed this before. There’s 15 16%. Of exhaust coming out of a car is water vapor. Mhm, and they count that as carbon because it contributes. To global warming Not down here. It doesn’t well, I mean you know, here in the ozone layer.

02:33:49,600	It does, but not down here. It doesn’t That’s all That’s all that’s all fake. It’s fake science that they’re peddling us for $300,000, and I’ve heard it on the radio. Uh, my question is If. We don’t have water vapor in the air.

02:34:12,200	How in the hell are we gonna get rain? How? Are we gonna survive if you don’t have CO2, you won’t survive without CO2. No one will survive. We need it for our food. We need it to produce our oxygen that we breathe, and that’s what people have to understand our oceans produce 51% of the oxygen We breathe. The rest of it comes from on land activities.

02:34:31,330	So if we eat completely eradicate CO two, we’re gonna We’re gonna hurt anything that Is CO2 and photosynthesis. That’s all of our grass for Uh, cattle all our crops, trees, everything so it it’s CO2 is a is a necessary ingredient to life. Thank you. OK.

02:35:00,670	We got some more people that wanna speak, Uh Um, I would just add that, uh, AAA request to commit, uh, Chair Bitner. I Would you? Would you be willing to send me a copy of that? That easement for my my research purposes And so I can disseminate information to others? Yeah? Sure. There’s no secret. Um, just text me a, uh, email address or provide it and That Who said it’s easy. Yeah.

02:35:24,670	We got no secrets. They. They. They got a clause in there for kind. Well. They got a confidentiality clause right? But. I didn’t sign it. I’m just being forced into it. And since they’re forcing me into it, they can kiss my grits on that confidentiality. Thank you, Um Next.

02:35:48,200	I’m Virginia do I used to have a question to brian. You said. This was signed in 2009 and put in the sentry code or the those those two. Those two specific sections of the so How Do. They know back then this is what they were gonna be doing, Or did they and we didn’t know it, I.

02:36:04,870	I don’t think they knew that this was going on back then I think I honestly think that they were looking at protecting North Dakota industries and businesses. And. These guys from outside, figured out, maybe through input. From, you know, maybe our governor and our oil guys or something. We’re down there promoting this to them or something.

02:36:24,600	Um, it was my understanding we spent I mean lots of money to it was my understanding. A. Lot of this arose about poor space concerning the mineral rights and injection wells and cracking well in in the discussion was some of the minerals that are in that pore space, uh, in solution or other mediums, so That’s where it

02:36:48,030	became. I think that that that has to be it because if if they were just focusing on the oil business, they certainly overlook a tremendous wealth of resources for minerals in the pore space alone, sir. Uh, Al, Don. I live in the Apple Creek Township area, and, uh, my question is OK there.

02:37:08,800	P in this 100 miles up to North Dakota. I don’t like we’re guinea pigs up here. That’s the way I feel. And, uh, They pipe it into underground. And. We got a very sandy soil up here around this area. What’s gonna hold it in the area and not come down the rivers and everything.

02:37:24,200	You know the CO2 and, you know, start You know, you know, just a simple questions. You know you keep it in the area, you know for the CO2 the pipeline and pumping into the ground underground. I’ve done a lot of research on that. The.

02:37:43,470	What they’re claiming is that the type of rock that’s over the top of the broom Creek formation is supposed to hold it down there. Of course we also know based on science that Anything that’s down there where they’re they’re pumping the increased pressure to get those things to combine because there’s issues of porosity and permeability.

02:38:06,400	So when you go into solution, or if you’re just displacing stuff, there’s a a pressure dome. That’s relative to that. And based on the, um computer modeling from Summit carbon solutions that they provided to the North Dakota Industrial commission for their application, they say, Well, yeah, on this. I can trust them because they say in their computer modeling that they’re injecting this stuff, Basically.

02:38:26,300	They’re going to inject this stuff in this size patch where my computer sits right? But, then over a certain number of years. All that pressure plume is going to be over here on these other people’s land, literally. I mean it’s it’s in their models they’re saying and those poor guys over there have got nothing to do with it.

02:38:42,830	They don’t even get 50 cents, and you know, OK. You Gotta keep pumping this the CO2 into underground and I just got to keep spreading out because there’s no way it could stay one spot sooner And, then also you get sooner or later.

02:38:58,400	You gotta find there’s gonna be a crack in the ground There’s gonna be. There’s no way you gotta Dome area, you know that could keep right, right? I’ve talked to some geologists on that and you’re on the right track because one of the things that we also know is that when you inject CO2 into water and presumably the same thing for salt water, but that immediately creates what’s

02:39:13,870	called carbonic acid. You probably heard that well, one of the things you may not know is that carbonic acid has a particular affinity for one type of rock, and it really is good at dissolving limestone. And limestone.

02:39:32,400	Of course you may know is what we make concrete out of our cement and cement is what’s been used all these years to plug all these old legacy Wells and and whatnot around the state, especially up in this area, so Anything you inject underground? That’s really good at dissolving cement or limestone. While.

02:39:51,070	What do you think is gonna happen? I’m not And also the the the other thing is you keep pumping this down there and sooner or later, you gotta have a blowout. Well that’s like that Lake Niles in Cameroon.

02:40:06,000	Yeah that came out in the middle of the night and and killed what 1400 some people and 3000 and then and then if you’re in a low lying areas where if the blow out have because it’s gonna be heavier in air, And. It’s gonna if you come into that you already you guys are gonna be in there. You won’t come out alive. Yeah, we know that and I. I don’t know if I told you but I’m, a certified scuba diver, and I have I have scuba diving tanks. Right there in my in my shop.

02:40:22,530	And by the time I’m. I’m not sure that I would have the presence of mind. Um, by the time I realized I had a breathing problem, since there’s no odor and no color to that.

02:40:37,530	I’m Just not so sure that I could get my own gear out that I’m very familiar with and put it to use. In time to save my own life, let alone save some, uh neighbors got on in a couple of minutes once you walk into it, you you lose the oxygen, nitrogen, You’re gonna be in deep doo doo Mhm.

02:40:58,870	There’s no question that I find it interesting that they’ve done that modeling, but they won’t do Plume study modeling with these pipelines, either, then we can’t see that nobody can see. Um you know they they have done some plume model studies, but Um, I was doing some research today. That involves some testimony from down in Iowa and um or South, Dakota also there.

02:41:20,130	There’s a guy that apparently is going to come up here to testify on behalf of the intervenor not our intervenor group. But, the another Intervenor group, who is a an amazing scientist that has to do with computational fluid dynamics. Kurt. Remember talking about that? That guy is, uh, Dr. John Abraham. Right. I’m. He’s A.

02:41:43,330	He’s A professor with really a long Uh, long record. In this science and he’s from over. I Think ST Cloud Minnesota or something like that. But anyway, one of the things I was reading was the rebuttal from uh, that Navigator pipeline guy was just trying to point out how that particular guy has zero experience. In Carbon dioxide pipelines or carbon dioxide construction. I’m thinking God.

02:42:08,200	I was reading I. I was reading his his story and his, You know his whole He’s Got a. He’s got a much better resume than I have, like a seven page F. And it’s like, Oh. Yeah, you, you, you The Guy’s forgotten more about science than most people ever know in their lives.

02:42:25,500	And so I thought that’s just the way they play. And realistically, folks, um, it’s not over till it’s over. I. I think that, um, if anything, The, the carbon sequestration and carbon pipeline.

02:42:53,230	Folks are really worried about the public and and the public’s understanding of this because the public actually is pretty well educated on this by now is, you know by all of us sharing information and whatnot, I don’t think they ever expected that that was gonna happen and what I think we need Is for the state Legislature to recognize that all of the effort to protect North Dakota businesses up to this point is good. Because. I.

02:43:15,000	Don’t think the sequestration thing of just the North Dakota businesses. It’s going to kill us. I. I think we’re OK. It’s all that unbelievable amounts that they want to pipe up here from elsewhere.

02:43:33,130	That’s going to hurt us and I think the state Legislature should do a should really pick up on on protecting North Dakota citizens just like they were protecting North Dakota business to begin with. Thank you for your time. Ladies and gentlemen, it’s about that time where I say any other business for the good of Burle County Comm.. Schwab. I’m following a story on That came up in Romania. The reason I’m gonna tell is kind of lighten up a little bit. But Years ago.

02:43:58,470	They Or they used to have buffalo over there and the buffalo are gone. So They got restocked. They have 100 and 76, head of buffalo. And. They did a study on him. And. They’re validating this study now that this herd Out on the range natural growth.

02:44:30,270	Is taking 42,000 ton of CO2 out of the air. Hm? It’s actually the most fascinating story Just starting in the they’re working, They can’t believe the results, so they’re trying to validate this information. So. I would recommend, uh, these outfits that are invested investing, uh, keep an eye on them guys. They got a better system. You may want to get into Buffalo. Careful.

02:44:55,530	They’ll Bring Back Buffalo Commons that might be the goal you can eat. Uh, thank you for sharing that ladies and gentlemen, we are adjourned.