00:00:06,800	Good morning like to call this meeting a special commission meeting of the burly County commission to order called the roll, please. Vice Chair Bakken here. Comm. Schwab Comm. Woodcox Comm. Munson Here, Chair Bittner. All right? We have got a quorum. Ah! First item up review and consideration the crossroads Tavern liquor license. Uh, Sheriff Leben.

00:00:56,470	Good Morning, Mr Vice Chair Commissioners, Um let me start out by saying this we are in uncharted territory. Um, basically what I mean by that statement is in my 34 years. With, the sheriff’s Department.

00:01:18,430	Um, I am not aware of a time where the sheriff has come before the commission to recommend a non renewal of a liquor license. So let me assure the commission as I’ve spoke to you in the past on this issue, it’s not something we take lightly. Um obviously This is somebody’s livelihood. It’s a business in our community.

00:01:40,830	Um, but at the same time we’re tasked with or I should say the commission’s tasked with regulating that one of the other, uh, things that puts us in uncharted territory is there’s not a playbook for what’s acceptable and not acceptable for a liquor liquor establishment in the state or in the county. Um, ultimately, um this board decides what’s acceptable. Also for my sake.

00:02:06,470	Um, this is not a typical role for law enforcement to be in most of our career. We spend our time testifying in cases or answering questions in cases, not presenting a case. Um so we we took this very seriously as we looked at this path we were on and the fact that I was coming before you today, uh, with some serious concerns, and the fact that I’m asking you

00:02:31,470	Some serious action. The County Commission touted the sheriff with investigating the facts stated in the application. And the character, reputation and fitness of the persons named in the application and shall report on such matters to the board of County Commissioners. That’s right out of Section, five of the burly county alcoholic beverage rules and regulation.

00:02:57,670	That’s What I’m tasked with for you as a board and and when I look at that statement. Basically. I see two questions that the board asks me to provide an answer. Does, the applicant or applicants qualify for a license.

00:03:23,270	Do they legally meet the threshold and the second question and probably the most difficult one is should the applicants or a applicant or applicants have a license, and that comes down to the fitness and character and reputation. Like. I stated. Ultimately. This board has to decide what’s acceptable for a liquor license owner. And, a liquor establishment manager, how they conduct their business in burly county. This board decides that As.

00:03:48,930	Most of this board is where we have a documented history of interaction with the Crossroads Tavern since the beginning of their operation. For the sake of clarity I have provided the board and state’s attorney with one document containing two timelines. The First timeline is a significant law enforcement.

00:04:15,100	Activity timeline and also the second one is a historical timeline of events with the crossroads where we’ve interacted with them also, um For. The, Um, board’s knowledge. Um Jocelyn Miller is present. I’m not aware of that jake Miller is present. Um, for this hearing. I did provide Jocelyn a copy of the two timelines prior to the hearing.

00:04:42,400	Um, since the board makeup has changed, Um, since last year’s meeting for the re issuance of the liquor license to the crossroads where we went into these this timeline in great detail. Uh, basically what I thought for the sake of the board’s clarity. We could do a walk through of that, Uh, briefly and if you had questions, we could answer them.

00:05:05,800	So if you look at this June 20th June of 2020 Was the first license obtained by the crossroads. Basically. The County regulations and the state law require that license to be renewed by June 30th of each year. So when you look, um from the issuance of the first license through 2021. There was some activity up there, but nothing that we felt was real significant.

00:05:30,330	So when the license came for renewal, um, around that June of 2021 period, um, the license was given the go ahead to the auditor’s office and came before this board for renewal. When. I talk about the renewal.

00:05:55,500	Let me kind of walk you through what a typical renewal looks like so basically the auditor’s office receives the renewal packet and they forward it to the sheriff, um for the review and confirmation to put it on the commission agenda for renewal. Basically When. These come in. I for lack of a better way to say it. I would say these are pretty straightforward things we look at, uh, the application.

00:06:20,530	Uh, we look at the people that are identified in that application. Um, as far as managerial roles or ownership. And, basically, uh, we look at available law enforcement databases to review whether or not those people meet the criteria for the license because there’s three separate Um Documents. I would say that outline the qualifications One is North Dakota century code.

00:06:50,330	Uh, the other is North Dakota administrative code under the Attorney General’s office, and the third is the, uh burly county rules and regulations. So basically In. Most of these. These are pretty straightforward. Um, you know a lot of times. Uh, We.

00:07:13,930	Don’t hear anything of these liquor establishments? Uh, we from time to time we might stop in and visit from time to time we may do some type of enforcement, underage drinking enforcement where we go out and spot check, uh, tobacco compliance, different stuff like that, But. For, the most part. These businesses aren’t a big part of our workload. When. We started seeing an increase in that 22 time period with the crossroads.

00:07:39,770	Um, basically what I would say is the activity up there rose to the level it was on the radar of our department, Uh, myself and to the point that I felt in 2022. This was something we would need to address.

00:08:01,400	Um, unfortunately, with some staff turnover in the auditor’s office, the license came up for renewal and was Ren Food Prior to my review of it. Um, So at that point, um I did work with my Comm. Comm. Woodcox and basically made him aware were monitoring this and working with the owner up there. Um, as you can see in 22. The problems really took off 23.

00:08:24,500	They got very serious up there, Um, to the point that in 2023 I came before this board and So, much with a recommendation on renewal or not, but basically bringing it to the board that we were concerned with. What was going on, Um, to refresh the board’s memory.

00:08:44,170	It was a 3 to 2 vote for renewal, uh, with basically a stern warning to get things under control at that meeting, and if I remember correctly, jake Miller was here. I don’t believe Jocelyn Miller was Um, but I don’t know that for sure.

00:09:06,600	So, then, uh, the commission also tasked me with monitoring the activity up there and reporting back to you as a board, Um, in the event that there would have to be a revocation of that license. So initially you can see right after there was still some activity up there, but again, it wasn’t rising to that level. Where you know, it was like in our face.

00:09:30,070	Um and like I said last time and not to be cliche, but we understand it’s a liquor establishment, not a religious facility. Um there’s going to be problems. We get that, but what’s acceptable And? To what level? Um, can we tolerate? That comes down to the question.

00:09:50,570	So As you can see by the timeline and I’m gonna address this in a little bit. You’re gonna see about September the calls to the crossroads come to an end. Um and and I want you to hold that thought, because I’m gonna come back to that, Um, in 24. We had a couple, Uh, incidents again.

00:10:14,930	Nothing Major if you look from September till now, Um, ironically, as we’re preparing for this meeting, we did have a incident this And up at the crossroads, Basically. The, bouncers or security were trying to get some people out of the establishment. Our.

00:10:38,930	Deputies responded, Um in the and the reason I bring this up is, um What concerned me when I read that report was there was, uh, some initial confusion on what was actually taking place. Our deputies drew their Tasers because they didn’t know security or, um, bouncers, whatever you wanna call them. We’re not identified by a uniform or anything, which they don’t have to be. So. Our deputies weren’t really aware of what’s going on. So.

00:11:00,800	They pulled their Tasers to gain control of the situation. But what troubles me is Noted in the report that the bouncers had been consuming alcohol. Um and that was noted by our deputies in that report, and II. I don’t think that’s a good practice. Um So anyways, moving on to the historical timeline.

00:11:21,670	If you look, I’ve kind of laid it out there. Um, one of the first meetings we held with the crossroads. Um, they got the license in Jocelyn’s name in 2020, not Jake’s, um, that changed in 21. But when we became aware the question I got Question. I believe at that time from chair Matthews, Um she had asked about a 2 a.m.

00:11:46,370	closing, which they could legally do, but we were concerned about that. Um, because of the fact that all the other establishments in this area close at 1 A.m., and we were concerned with what type of activity would happen between one and two and again.

00:12:06,530	That’s a business decision a decision the Millers have to make. Um, but we just felt it was imperative they understood. Concerns from what we typically see. Um, when it comes to that late of an hour and alcohol consumption. Um as I point out, uh, license renewed in 21 without incident. Um, tw February of 22.

00:12:32,700	We met with jake Me and the leadership team for our enforcement division, Uh, met with Jake and expressed our concerns about what was going on up there and the increase in serious activity. Um Like I stated in the commission meeting last year. I think it was a very productive meeting.

00:12:53,470	Jake had some concerns as the owner, Um he felt that we had too strong of a presence there, uh, which can deter business from his establishment, So. We basically worked on what would be agreeable to both parties. Um, like I said the license was renewed in 22. Um 20 December of 22. We See.

00:13:20,200	This continued activity and so our enforcement division leadership again went up and met with jake and expressed our concerns again every time in those meetings. Uh, we basically brought up that 2 a.m. closing. We brought up some other concerns with the lighting in the parking lot stuff like that, Uh, security. These were all issues that were kind of fluid in these meetings and I will say Jake was agreeable. Um, jake said.

00:13:41,530	He’s gonna work on you know more lighting. He’s gonna work on better cameras. Um, he did get a doorman in security now, um some of them II. I don’t know, And. It’s probably not a major thing. I don’t know if the the parking lot lights have ever been fully brought up to what we discussed. But again.

00:14:01,730	That’s not a major issue. Um, in everything we’re talking about here today, Um So in June. Like. I said. I came before the commission. And. Um we still had concerns. You know the concern we started having is, Are.

00:14:24,400	We being called up there because that was something Jake brought up in the meeting before the commission is well am I going to be penalized for calling law enforcement and and he was assured greatly that no, he would not be. Um The concern is that what’s going on up there? That Nesa, uh, is necessary for law enforcement to respond.

00:14:47,830	So, um We started seeing just what we felt was probably, um A situation where maybe we’re not being called when we should be Um, so anyways, at that point, I made the decision. Uh we were going to conduct some undercover operations at the crossroads. Uh, we use some of our deputies from our investigative section, uh, to go in there and, um Basically see what’s going on.

00:15:12,370	See if we’re not being notified, see if people are allowed to remain in there after closing time and continue to drink and, um and basically, uh, those went very well and I was very happy with the results.

00:15:37,670	Um, the only real issue that really, um was anything on the radar was that, um the doorman wasn’t in place One night, which again? There’s not a To. Have a doorman there, Um And so that wasn’t a big factor. Uh, they Deputies involved in the operation reported at closing time, everybody for the most part was moved out of the building.

00:16:01,870	Um, which was good news for us, and and we’ve heard this before we hear it from time to time with liquor establishments that after closing people remain in there now. There’s a fine line when it comes to that, because if you look at the law, the law says you can’t dispense after closing time now, II I think we would be naive to think that at establishments across the state that when in, uh a restaurant

00:16:24,400	closes or a bar closes, people have to stay and work and I would imagine that there’s a bill a beer drink with the meal, I. I don’t think that’s the intent of that law.

00:16:46,200	That law is to make sure the public is moved out and the ownership because once the doors close, and I would say that it basically becomes a private, uh Bu, uh, private Uh, building at that point, because it’s no longer open to the public. So. Anyways, the operations went well. We conducted one in September of 23 and one in November of 23, based on those undercover operations.

00:17:08,800	I felt confident in coming back before the commission and saying, I think we’re on the right track, but we’re going to continue to monitor monitor it. So Moving forward. Uh, things kind of changed in a different direction. Uh, starting in 24 January of 24. We weren’t dealing with the the bar. We were dealing with the owners.

00:17:34,800	Um, January of 2024 Jocelyn Miller is charged with domestic violence, bodily injury, Uh, she has pled to a reduced charge on May 21st of this year with an original offense date of January 21st 2024. I put this original offense stayed in there for you, because, um, as I lay out this timeline, it’s gonna get a little confusing because some of these events happened in different orders.

00:17:57,730	Then. They were charged out in the court system and and it kind of comes all back around. February of 2024 jake Miller is charged with driving under revocation possession of cocaine, and he has a jury trial set for June 21st of this year. This is the third event with Jake Miller. Um, in this timeline.

00:18:22,400	The original offense date was January 21st of 2024. Um February of 24 Jake Miller’s charged with duty upon striking the jury trial for that is, um I believe I, have a typo in your papers. It’s set for August 1st not August 21st. That is the first event with the original offense date of Jan of November 27th 2023.

00:18:53,200	March of 2024. Jake. Miller is again charged this time with driving under the influence of drugs, possession of cocaine and refusal to test there’s a jury trial set on that case for August 1st 2024. This is actually the second event, um, with an original offense date of December 1st 2023.

00:19:19,200	I put this next event in the timeline because I think it kind of goes with what we’re talking about occurring at the crossroads. And. There was, uh, an arrest of by the Metro Area Narcotics task force in May. With four out of state people for narcotics trafficking, Um, that were arrested in the parking lot of the Crossroads Tavern.

00:19:44,000	They May of this year I appeared before the commission to advise of a non renewal and request a special meeting to hear the matter. Um I had informed jake of that action be being taken and offered to meet with Jake and Jocelyn to explain. Uh, Jake LA later left me a phone message. After I talked to him on the phone.

00:20:01,830	He didn’t request a meeting. At. That time He called Shortly after I left the office. Um and I attempted to call him back four times and I was like unsuccessful. So. Then.

00:20:22,400	We have the commission meeting in May and then after that commission made or during that commission meeting, jake asked to speak to me and again asked to meet with me, Um, I basically explained at that time you have to answer your phone and we can meet, and, uh so then we did make contact and I briefly explained to Jake what I would be discussing here today.

00:20:41,670	Uh, And at that point, he’s never made contact with me again. Um, to discuss that. So. Um, that’s why I did hand Jocelyn the timelines. Um today. So As. I stated before this board tasked me with two questions do they qualify for a license? And should they have a license? So when we look at the issue of do they qualify for a license at the last commission

00:21:05,430	meeting. I came before you and I stated, in my opinion that I believe the crossroads tavern liquor license was inaccurate and incomplete. Um, when I stated that the application was incomplete.

00:21:30,800	I was aware, um, both from the auditor’s office and from a review in the application that they did not have a township approval letter, um, prior to the commission meeting I confirmed with the auditors office they still had not received that letter. That’s a vital part of that application. Ironically, um, I wanted to get in touch with the township to find out.

00:21:53,130	Uh, what the story was was, did they forget to request it? Um, what was going on? Um I. I never did make contact. Um, but ironically on May 23rd of this of this month I got a call from mary Rageh, the township supervisor for Hay Creek Township in reference to this application. Um, I ended up speaking with her at great length. Unfortunately. She’s not able to be here today.

00:22:20,400	Um, because of, uh uh pre or an appointment that she had set. Um, but I spoke with her at great length about this license, and I asked her Can I state that, uh, the township is concerned about this liquor establishment. And. She said Yes. I could state that to this board.

00:22:40,670	At this point she basically gave me the the Ground. This application came to them right after they had met as a board. She said. Typically what they would do in that situation is they would handle it through email, but based on what’s going on, historically, with the crossroads, the township board did not feel or she as the

00:23:01,630	Chair did not feel comfortable doing that, Um At this point, she said she is, um not sure that they are going to issue that letter. Um, Basically. She’s monitoring this They also, um Concerned.

00:23:29,500	They don’t want to, um, do something that they shouldn’t be doing basically meaning, like I explained to mary, You Don’t as a township board. You don’t have the resources like the commission does. Um, yes, you could reach out to our office. But. I also believe that’s the role of this commission to reach out to our office for, um, input.

00:23:53,000	Um So, um Basically when we look at that application at this point, I would say, technically, it’s incomplete. Um, so again, we move on more to the point of do they qualify? Um, because the application is incomplete as you review it today. My next statement. Last commission meeting was at this application is inaccurate. Um First off the application did not contain all of Jake’s charges.

00:24:18,000	Um, it does not contain the charge of driving under revocation. DU I of drugs, refusal to test and the second charge of possession of cocaine. There’s a statement in that application that’s signed by Jocelyn listing the charges and her opinion of them. In my opinion, Jocelyn’s Summation of those charges is a gross minimization of those charges.

00:24:45,600	Our department investigated every one of those charges. I will stand here today and be stand behind our deputies for their thoroughness and professionalism and the statements made in there about basically that these cases are flimsy I. I disagree with that characterization. Some of these charges against jake.

00:25:10,730	They deal with his ability to qualify and some of these charges deal with the question of should he have a license? Um I don’t know why this list is incomplete. That’s something we don’t know.

00:25:33,670	Um, So the first question I would pose is was Jocelyn aware of the charges? I find it hard to believe that Jocelyn wouldn’t be aware of these charges because when she was arrested for domestic assault in the timeline in the close proximity to that second cocaine possession, arrest of jake jake told our deputies. That’s why he was assaulted. Is. He got arrested again, so that leads me to believe Jocelyn was well aware of these charges.

00:25:53,930	Um, could it have been oversight on her part it possibly could have or the last thing could it have been deception to this board and that’s what we don’t know. So. When, I say made the statement do they qualify for a license? We have an application.

00:26:15,270	The deadline is June 30th of this year and the time so when we look at that the township letter can ultimately be obtained. Maybe Or. Maybe not that’s up to the township board. Um, but as we stand here today, there’s no township ladder. The air is in this report are in this application can be fixed if the board chooses to go that route. Can the can. The. Other charges be added. Yes, they can. But.

00:26:36,730	I’m going to oppose this to you. If. The board believes the errors were made deceptively North Dakota administrative code 10-08 Dash 01-03 States false information in a sworn application is grounds for denial, suspension or revocation. If Jocelyn’s statements. If you believe that they were made deceptively, the administrative code says the action is to revoke or deny that license application. When.

00:27:13,170	We look at the criminal charges. Jocelyn’s criminal charge and conviction does not preclude her from qualifying for a license. This board must decide if she should have a license. Jake’s two charges of possession of cocaine are violation of North Dakota century code. 19-03 0.

00:27:38,930	1, the Uniform controlled Substance Act for North Dakota and may preclude him from qualifying for the for a license or even have a managerial role in this business. One court date is before the deadline for the liquor license, and one is after if he is found not guilty on the first trial in June, but convicted in the second trial, the commission, in my opinion would have no choice but to

00:28:00,470	revoke the license if you issue it, as the county regulations do not allow for a transfer of the license, except upon death, so basically his charges would preclude him if he’s convicted in that second trial after the license. Headline.

00:28:24,000	Um, you would have to Revoked that license because him and Jocelyn are co owners on this application as it stands before you and like I stated, the only way they can. Um, the commission can transfer that license is upon death of the owner or owners. If. He’s acquitted on both charges.

00:28:45,870	This board again faces the question of should they have a license? And and I stand here before you saying our court system operates in many different fashions? Um, doesn’t always Necessarily determine, um guilt or innocence. It’s a jury making a decision. It’s the system I believe in, but When. You. Look at the allegations. You’re looking at two different levels of proof here. In my opinion the court were looking at proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

00:29:10,930	And that’s up to the jury’s interpretation. Here. You look at the facts as you determine them and whether it’s a preponderance of the evidence or whatever standard you see. I mean that’s more a A question to state’s attorney lawyer, but basically, it’s two different standards.

00:29:33,630	So even with acquittals in the court system, I think we still Be standing here reviewing this liquor license application. The question of do they qualify for a license is fairly black and white and easy to answer when we get into should they have a license? This becomes grayer. And. In my opinion. We must ask ourselves a question of what is best for Burleigh County. On the question of should they have a license? The.

00:29:53,870	First point I will make is the timelines. I have provided two timelines that lay out issues with the Crossroads Tavern and the work we’ve done to mitigate these issues when we look at the law enforcement activity timeline, we see a marked drop in responses to the Crossroads Tavern in late 2023 2024 like I

00:30:12,900	explained to you In looking at the historical timeline about the time we see a drop in the responses at the crossroads, we see an increased enforcement activity with the Millers themselves. On a personal level.

00:30:34,800	The question This board must decide is what does this mean? Have things gotten better at the Crossroads Tavern or is law enforcement not being called when there’s a problem? Obviously. We’ve taken enforcement action against both of the Millers. As part of our investigative process on certain criminal activity. We, we we conduct what we call phone reps. Basically a phone rip is a search of that phone to gather evidence pertinent to the investigation.

00:30:56,230	At this time I’m going to have Deputy Pollard come up and walk you through what we learned by analyzing information stored in Jake Miller’s cell phones. Deputy Trevor Pollard. Good morning. My name is Trevor Pollard. I’m, a deputy sheriff with the Burle County Sheriff’s department.

00:31:21,330	I’ve been employed with the Sheriff’s department for over 10 years Now I’ve spent about five of those years assigned to the Metro area Narcotics Task Force. Uh, essentially what we do at the Narcotics task force is investigate drug crime, drug trafficking crime in the Bismarck Mandan area all the way from low level drug offenses up to multi state and sometimes international drug trafficking rings. Um How.

00:31:44,200	I became involved in this, uh in one of my other duties is to follow up on any drug violations that are patrol or even investigations Unit come across. Um, so that’s how I became involved in this, uh there was the two offenses involving Mr Miller.

00:32:02,430	Both times a cell phone was seized from him. Um So in the course of that. There was one time he gave consent for us to look at his cell phone. At another time I saw a search warrant, which was then granted to do a cell phone extraction of the phone and to sum up what we mean by a phone R or a phone extraction.

00:32:22,170	Um, we have a essentially a forensic program that’s called Celebrate. We utilize this to we plug in the phone. And. It basically goes through the, uh, goes through the phone and makes almost a mirror copy of the phone puts it into a computer program that we’re then able to, um, go through and try to identify if there’s

00:32:42,400	any, um, evidence or any messages involving it in this case, drug trafficking or other criminal activity, Um, in those phones, So, that’s how I became involved in this one. Um Basically to sum it up in the in the two phone rips, Um The I believe the first one. It started around April of 2023. And. Then.

00:33:06,530	The messages continued up until I believe January 2024. So in looking at that, and To back up, I. I have a lot of experience in going through phone. Uh, people’s phone rips. Uh, I know slang for drug terms.

00:33:29,400	Uh, I’m able to based on my training experience, recognize, um when messages are discussing, um, somebody trying to purchase narcotics or talking about other drug related type of things, um, so in in going through Mr Miller’s two phone extractions, I was able to observe that there was a fairly regular pattern of Mr Miller either purchasing or Attempting to purchase what what I believe to be cocaine based on his previous arrests for possession of cocaine.

00:33:53,400	Um In going through those. It was also apparent to me that, uh, there was occasions when Mister Miller would utilize crossroads as a place to either meet, or to facilitate, uh, basically a drug deal.

00:34:15,900	Um, there was also one occasion where it appeared that he was using door money which I to me means money that, um if the bar is Having a cover charge to get into the bar. Um, I believe that’s what door money is. I don’t know that for a fact, but that’s how I translated it. It did appear that he used door money to pay for cocaine.

00:34:32,470	I believe, um, it was, uh, a few 3 G quantity of cocaine. Um And the his phone was consistent with things like that, um, messages that would indicate that he was either attending to purchase or did purchase cocaine. Um There was another thing of note in going through that, uh, that could was indicative of criminal activity.

00:35:00,370	And that involves, um what appeared to be Mr Miller, attempting to Hire prostitutes. Um, he was frequenting some sites that I know from my training experience, uh, are used to facilitate prostitution. There was a certain message thread there where he was.

00:35:26,270	Mr Miller was communicating with Based on my training experience who I believe to be a prostitute? Um, inquiring about, uh, getting a massage and the context of the massage essentially involved. Um, both individuals being naked and then receiving a massage from that. Um, this was to take place at a hotel, which I think we can probably deduce that most massages don’t occur at hotel rooms.

00:35:48,400	Um, and in particular, there was one message thread where Mr Miller was communicating with again who I believe to be likely a prostitute. Um And. That person replied to Mr Miller that they remembered them. Um, which would indicate to me that he had followed At at some point like we followed through with meeting up with one of these Potential prostitutes, Um, which is obviously illegal.

00:36:13,300	Um, depending on what actually occurred, but based on my training experience, it appeared that he was trying to, um Continue communicating with the prostitute that he had already met with once before. Um So in summary. Yeah, that’s that’s about In a nutshell. What we, uh observed with, uh Mr Miller’s cell phone extractions. Thank you. Any questions for the deputy.

00:36:38,270	Thank you. Mr vice Chair commissioners, continuing. Um, so several things are in Evident from these phone reps and before I sum up the phone reps. Let me say this. This is not typical of a liquor license renewal in burly county. Um this is typical of a drug investigation.

00:37:10,930	Um, where we are looking at drug activity occurring in burly county. Um The problem Here is we have a blending of the two Um, so several things are evident from these phone rips Jake Miller, in our opinion has engaged in narcotics trafficking in burly county and and what Is the serious note is he’s engaged in it with his business to help

00:37:33,970	facilitate it. Um it’s one thing to engage in this conduct as a citizen. It’s another when you have a liquor license that specifically prohibits that over and above state law, um the other thing that is evident by these phone reps is jake Miller has engaged in sexual activity in violation of the laws of North Dakota. How.

00:37:56,800	Does this come into play. Um it speaks to the character of who has this license one of the very things I Sheriff. I have to review Um, as I stated before the board asked me the two questions do they qualify? And? Should.

00:38:17,670	They have a license? Um, based on the application as it stands, Um, this is a joint application with Jake and Jocelyn, so we have to look at both of them. Together as one based on the application as it stands, I believe they don’t qualify.

00:38:39,000	Um, I think it’s my responsibility to give you an opinion and facts and and that’s why I stand here today to tell you I don’t believe they qualify. Um, the applications lacking township approval. The application doesn’t contain complete and or accurate information. Based on the question of should they have a license? I believe they should not, um, information shows us Jake has violated North Dakota drug laws and has used this business in the furtherance of those crimes.

00:39:04,070	Jake has engaged in behavior and violation of North Dakota laws on sexual activity. These actions. As I stated. Speak in part to Jake’s character and judgment. Um My concern is that there’s not a separation. My concern is this behavior occurs, but my big concern is there’s no separation from the business to his personal life.

00:39:30,800	There’s an established track record of unfavorable activity that occurs at this establishment. Um And then when we we look at this application. We have first hand knowledge that jake and Jocelyn both managed this business, so I can’t say who’s allowing it to happen, But. They’re both managers of the business.

00:39:53,730	I will say this to the commission for the first time in our memory in the department. We have not heard this much chatter about a liquor establishment in burly county. Um, I’ve been approached in public. I’ve been contacted on the phone, and like I said, We’re in uncharted territory because this never has happened. So When. I look at this.

00:40:16,730	And if I looked at it from a 30,000 ft view, I, I can’t stand here today and tell you this is good for burly county. Um, I Think. When. We look at the two aspects of that license. I. I think it’s evident from my perspective that this is not a good establishment for our citizens, Um, in burly county.

00:40:39,130	A couple of things, I’ll. I’ll throw out there and then, um, I’ll open it up to your discussion is, um you know, where do we go from here? And. Like I said we’re in uncharted territory. Um, I’ve been monitoring the situation. I’ve had conversations with Comm.

00:41:01,530	Woodcock, um, depending when these charges played out, I was prepared to come before you for a revocation. Um, request. Um, but as we as I’ve watched this play out And wanting to make sure we’re doing the right thing. I think at this point the best way to address it was, um at the liquor license renewal. Um, because we don’t have convictions yet.

00:41:23,400	Um, so a lot of go were basing this on right now, Uh, even though we’ve got some on do they qualify Really it comes down to should they have a license? Um So, basically, um you know, when I look at this, we have to you as a board have to make a decision.

00:41:44,800	It’s our job to give you as much relevant information but ultimately you as the board decides whether they should have a license or not, And. That’s Why I stand here before you today and it’s my recommendation that they do not get reissued a license. Thank you, sheriff? Um, just for a little History or contextual side of things. How.

00:42:07,200	Many, Uh, establishments are under the jurisdiction of burly county versus I mean a city municipality. How. Many, Uh, establishments, do you and your Department have to deal with Mr Vice Chair commissioners, Um and and that’s kind of a I’ll. I’ll put an asterisk on this answer. We have liquor. We have a variety of different liquor establishments.

00:42:28,100	So you have, for example, Hawk Tree Golf course has the liquors and bars And? Yes. So. Really, Um we have the crossroads Tavern Wing has a bar. Um Driscoll has a bar and Moffat has a bar. That’s the main bars that we address. Obviously Lincoln has their own, um, licensing, but that’s really the main bars.

00:42:52,130	There’s You know there’s liquor licenses at the U of mary. There’s liquor licenses up at Capital City Gun Club. So I. I don’t have an exact number of how many we have relatively low number of bars, relatively low number CORRECT.

00:43:15,130	Have you seen in the past, or are there anything that, uh, compares to the call activity that we’re seeing crossroads compared to any other establishment of the same nature, Mr Vice Chair commissioners and Um For your benefit. Uh, Comm. B and, um, last meeting in last year before the renewal, I spoke to this because as this is going on, this is unprecedented for us. We’ve never had this even when, um, it was, uh I.

00:43:38,530	Forget the name of the bar before I could have Said it 100 times. But anyways, before it became crossroads, we had issues up there from time to time, but we expect that when this started happening last year, Burn Creek club. There you go.

00:44:01,500	Thank you, um when we had this happen last year, um, I reached out to or, uh, chief Dave dra of the Bismarck Police department because this was on this was foreign for us, and I asked him, you know is what do you think with this activity? Um Dave did say that, depending on their establishments, they’ve got some more active, um, liquor establishments in the city. Um, you know, so he said, Yeah.

00:44:23,600	It’s. It’s not what you want, but ultimately you guys gotta decide. You know what’s right and and that’s why I come back to you. There’s really not a a book. You can open up and it says Well if they got 20 fights up there, you shut them down. Basically.

00:44:41,230	This board makes the determined termination looking at the total. Of the facts. What they you think as a board is acceptable. Mr vice Chair, Uh, I’d like to hear from our state’s attorney, because I know she’s been involved with it. And. Uh I visit her with it A couple of times.

00:45:01,970	I’d like to hear her her opinion of the whole process that we’re going through. Are we doing it right? And? Um, what’s your opinion on renewal of the license? Thank you Chair and our vice Chair and commissioners. Um I don’t get involved, or our office doesn’t get involved in approving applications or reviewing applications. We’re just here to tell you what the law says.

00:45:28,500	And what you need to be looking at, so there are two portions of the law that you need to look at. When issuing or renewing a liquor license. One is North Dakota century code. Uh 5-02 Dash 02, which talks about the qualifications for a license and what’s interesting about both of these laws is they’re in the negative.

00:45:45,300	It says that Retail license may not be issued to any person unless the person does things or fits a criteria. Um, this isn’t uh, you shall issue a license if everything is done according to the law, um, they fill out the application correctly, Then they get a license. This board isn’t a rubber stamp.

00:46:02,700	You have to actually look at certain things and make sure they meet the criteria. The. First. One is that the applicant must be a legal resident of the United States and be a person of good moral character. That term isn’t defined. Basically.

00:46:18,730	That’s up to you to look at all of the facts and circumstances to determine if they are of good moral character. Um the applicant or manager must not have been convicted of an offense determined by the attorney general to have direct bearing on upon an applicant or manager’s ability to serve the public as an alcoholic beverage retailer or following conviction of an offense is determined not to be sufficiently rehabilitated under century code.

00:46:40,930	So if you go to the North Dakota Administrative code, which is where the attorney general has promulgated rules regarding liquor licenses under North Dakota administrative Code 10. 08-1 Dash 01, which deals with qualifications for a license. Um, again. It’s in the negative.

00:47:02,930	No retail license shall be issued to any person, nor shall any previously issued license be renewed or retained unless they file a sworn statement upon application showing the following qualifications and as it relates to, um those crimes that may have been committed The rules state that the applicant or manager must not have been found guilty of pled guilty to or released from incarceration or probation for a felony. The last five years.

00:47:23,770	Number two is that the applicant or manager must not have been found guilty of or pled guilty to a misdemeanor or an infraction offense contained in specific sent code. And.

00:47:41,900	Then it goes on to say or have committed any other crime, which has direct bearing on the applicant’s fitness to be involved in the sale or dispensing of alcoholic beverages within the last three years, So not only is there a conviction if there’s a conviction Of those certain offenses they can’t be issued a liquor license if that occurred within three years.

00:47:58,470	However, it also says, or have committed any other crime, which has direct bearing on their fitness to be involved in the sailor dispensing of alcohol. In this case you have, um the sheriff has gone through the three pending cases that are against one of the applicants and then the conviction for the second applicant. Have. They committed a crime.

00:48:18,370	Um, that has a direct bearing on their fitness to be involved in sailor dispensing of alcoholic beverages as Leave an indicated, um one of the applicants. Jocelyn Miller was charged with a domestic violence, simple assault that was reduced to a disorderly conduct, and she pled guilty to that within the last year, Um Jacob Miller, who’s the other applicant has three pending cases.

00:48:38,700	So has he committed an offense that has bearing on his ability to dispense alcohol, and the sheriff went over with those offenses were They would be. I apologize. I had it open, but it kicks me out every once in a while.

00:49:12,730	So the pending offenses and this means that a court has found probable cause to institute the the charges so probable cause has been found for possession of cocaine driving under revocation in one case for duty upon striking highway fixtures or other property in a second case and for possession of cocaine, DU I drugs and refusal to submit to a chemical test. All of those are misdemeanors. All of those occurred within the last year. So. You have to look at that. It’s not just convictions.

00:49:32,030	It is also, um have they committed an offense. And, then the other qualifications under the rules of the attorney general are basically regarding the building. Um If they’ve been rehabilitated from crimes.

00:50:00,900	They’ve been convicted of So going back to the century code, then? You also have to look at whether or not they’ve secured a local license as well. And that goes to, um what Sheriff Leben talked about getting the township approval to get that license as well. So in looking at the century code again, Like. I said.

00:50:18,400	It’s not anything that says if they if you look at the license, and they’ve checked all the boxes, you must give them a liquor license. You actually have to look at those facts and circumstances and based on the facts and circumstances presented by the sheriff’s department in their basically their Round check of these applicants. I agree with the sheriff that liquor license would not be appropriate at this time. Any other questions for Julie.

00:50:39,200	Julie, could you walk us through the the difference between the revocation and non renewal? Um So. A revocation would be you’ve already issued a license and something has come up to call into question that application if you were looking at that application again, as it comes up for renewal, um and so if you do, issue a license

00:51:02,670	or renew this license, because that’s what you’re looking at. Is the renewal. If, you do renew this license and then one of those factors comes up where it says a license may not be issued. If. Certain things have happened if something like that happens, you find that they’re not of good moral character.

00:51:18,400	You find that they’ve been convicted of a prohibiting offense. Then. You can revoke that license to do the revocation. Um, an app or an affidavit has to be filed regarding the violation of the the law or the portion of the liquor license. Um, laws that have been violated. That has to come before the commission.

00:51:38,070	A hearing has to be held regarding those violations. And then you have to determine whether or not you’re going to revoke that license. OK, thank you. Vice chair. Mr Munson this meeting Does. This meeting qualify for revocation or do we need another? This would not qualify as a revocation.

00:51:56,570	So what you’re only dealing with here is whether you’re going to renew that license starting. Um I think it’s July 1st is when that license would take effect then because it goes through June 30th. So. What you’re doing here is a renewal.

00:52:11,000	The the hearing that you would have to have to revoke basically requires, um, the state’s attorney’s office, presenting evidence there has to be a stenographer. It’s almost like a court hearing. Thank you. Mr.

00:52:32,970	Is there such a thing as a 30 Day renewal or a 60 Day renewal, Or does it have to be one year? So there isn’t anything in the law that indicates that you can do, um, that I found that indicates you can do like a conditional because I, I would see that as a conditional approval. Um, and there’s nothing that I can find that says that they either are granted a liquor license, and that’s for a year time period or they’re not. Thank you. Any other questions. Thank you, Julie Anything else to add? On.

00:52:59,530	This renewal business, Um Do we automatic Literally run. Oh. Were you asking me? I’ll get the sheriff here. Uh, on these renewals. I see that You know he’s got August 1st and it it’s out there are we allowed to let a license expire and not renew it pending court. In other words, Uh, You know they’ve got all these charges against them.

00:53:33,800	Or I don’t know if they’re I’m stating that right? But Can. The Commission in light of that say, Well, you know, let’s see what happens at these cases and that’ll And not renew on account of the seriousness of the charges, so if you don’t renew the license, then their license is done.

00:53:54,730	And after the pendency of the cases if they want to do another application for a license, they can certainly do that. There’s nothing that precludes them from reapplying, and it would be the application status, not a renewal anymore because they wouldn’t have that license to renew.

00:54:17,100	Well, I’m I’m concerned about this sounds to me like You know drug trafficking? I’m absolutely Against that and if this is becoming something bigger than just Doing the bar thing. Are. We able to just Shut her down the day. No, we’re not here for a revocation of that license. You’ve issued a license that’s good until June 30th in order to do a revocation.

00:54:42,130	There’s a whole different process that would happen so all your determining is whether or not you’re going to renew that license again. Starting July 1st. And. We could make that decision here. Yes. I move that we don’t renew it. Second Motion second, any further discussion. Mr chair, She Munson. One Quick question for the sheriff. And.

00:55:06,270	This is a minor detail Has Hay Creek Township ever approved. Or has their application been not accurate since day one. Mr Vice Chair, Comm. Munson and commissioners. As far as I can go back and remember, we always have the township letter. Oh.

00:55:30,170	Except for this year except for this year and and that was, uh, that drew, uh, questions for us on why we did not have that. Um And. So. I was, um, Glad I did get a chance to speak with Mary Renick in her capacity as the township supervisor and clarify that issue. Thank you very much. Any other discussion. Mr Cox I I Know. A year ago we went through a lot of the same The.

00:55:54,700	The charges have been since then. We didn’t have at that time, but we were really concerned last year at in May of renewing at that time, and we decided to give him another year and we if I, remember, right? We met with him and or you met with him, Sheriff, and

00:56:08,730	he was going to do a lot better and, you know, promises or promises And that appears that that has not happened. It did for a while. We were doing really good, because we we have a check on it every once in a while and we were doing good then then it started to slide backwards again, and that’s

00:56:24,030	We’re at right now. Is that am I correct? Mr, vice chair commissioners and Comm. woodcocks. That’s correct. Um, like I told you in those timelines. Uh, we don’t the calls did drop, but we don’t know why. Um, and ironically there’s a correlation when we started having to take enforcement action against the owners on a personal level.

00:56:47,070	Um so I, I can’t stand here before you and tell you they’ve quit calling us, um up there. Um, but that is something in the back of my mind. Because all of a sudden This went from a very in my words, A rough establishment, um to a very straight line establishment and the only thing that changed is

00:57:08,930	the criminal arrest of the owners. Anyone else. I have one more question, Mr Schwab. This phone that you went through. For the people that That. Your task Force, those four that were arrested for drugs up there. Were they Also on the phone. Mr vice chair and commissioners Comm. Schwab. I. Think I.

00:57:39,500	I know what you’re asking. Do. They know one another. They and so before, so our law enforcement was not on the phone. Um, there is different things Law enforcement has has the ability to do with permissions of the court. Sometimes there’s called What’s, uh, we say in police lingo is a wire tap.

00:58:02,800	That’s basically where a law enforcement officer is listening to that conversation firsthand. Um, these are different. These are basically and, um, For the record. It’s not one phone. It was two phones Jake possessed. Um, Basically. These is this is where you do like what would be called a forensic analyzation of that phone.

00:58:27,400	Um so basically, we get a print out of text messages. Um, uh, WhatsApp messages? Uh, anything that that phone can be used for, Uh, will show up call logs. All that and even sometimes, when that, uh, information is deleted, you go in and delete a text message. It will still come up. So, um In. In.

00:58:50,870	Those you were only able to identify 100% who we believe jake Miller to be sending those messages to some other unknown party. But were any of those Parties were any of those parties. Uh, Amongst those four that were arrested up there on your Drug bust. Mr Vice Chair commissioners.

00:59:17,700	I’m Not aware, Um I, you know, And and basically, I will say this, um you know, I gave you some facts as we know them, and, um and I didn’t give you any resolution to those facts and I don’t want you to take any inferences from that one way or another.

00:59:38,570	Um, basically what I can tell you is I was tasked with a tough situation of, um as sheriff, you know, On one side I’ve got to administrative Process of this license renewal on the other side. I’ve got the knowledge of fact of crimes being committed in Beley County.

00:59:57,000	And as I stand here before you today, I will say I will work to the fullest of my ability to ensure, uh people are held accountable for violating the law and crimes are prosecuted with the help of the state’s attorney’s office. Uh, when I looked at this, I had to make a decision. What is the focus.

01:00:18,970	Um do we focus on investigating or do we focus on the liquor license, and ultimately it comes down to what I felt was what is the greater good? And. We as a department felt what is the greater good for Burle County, and in my opinion, the greater good is when a citizen of burly county walks into the establishment they know that it’s safe, secure and not engaged in criminal activity. And. So. That’s Why.

01:00:36,330	I’m here before you today Mr Woodcock. A. Couple of questions. Um, is there an appeal process to this decision we’re working on right now. What. What? What’s the legal Assuming. We turned this down with the motions on the table.

01:01:00,800	What is there a Appeal process go to District Court or whatever that may be, or Mr vice chair commissioners and and again Julie can weigh in on this. My belief based on reviewing the laws, yes, there is a review or a appeal process. I believe to the district court What that entails. I’m not aware of, um because we’ve never gone through that process. Thank you. And.

01:01:24,130	My second question was We’re getting close to your testimony and and Julia lawyers do we need to do we can we ask for testimony from the audience? I think it’s a is that a decision of the chair because it’s not a public hearing. I’m gonna chime in for that? Um, no, There’s nothing that says that you can’t.

01:01:41,200	I mean I shouldn’t say no, but there’s nothing that says that you can’t take public. Um, information. You certainly can if you’d like to, um, you’re supposed to make the determination regarding like I said that the good character of the person that you’re issuing that for and so in order to do that you would need facts to do that.

01:01:54,630	So if you want to hear from the public, you certainly can. Ms Tarrant. I would like to hear some Opinions of the Millers in particular, and also anybody else that might want to Anyone like to speak. Uh please come forward. Hi. I’m Jocelyn Miller. I’m I’m Sorry. I can’t can’t hear you. I’m Jocelyn Miller. I’m ji um wife.

01:02:29,870	50% owner of, um the establishment. Um First off. Um, When filling out this Chair. I sorry to interrupt you, but I don’t think the audience can hear you got to get up closer to the mic.

01:02:49,530	Sorry, is that a Kelly? Is that on your it’s on, um, there you go first off when filling out the application. I was not aware I’m sorry of all the charges. I really was not. Um so some of this was very surprising today. Um Also Yeah.

01:03:27,670	You know we we try to secure security at night, Um, with full security shirts as this last event, um I know that the one Guy did have a security shirt on Um, you know, we secure these people, They say they’re going to come in. They, don’t so sometimes we do happen to be short security people, So, we may ask some other people that work for us. Um, that got off early to come and help.

01:03:47,200	They might not be identified as security, wearing a security shirt that wanted to put that out there. Um, you know, we do try to make our establishment as safe as possible. And, a fun environment. Um, for our customers, You know, we don’t want Fights, um, you know, that is not something that we want in our building. Um As far as like. These calls.

01:04:13,930	Um, you know I am not 100% of the time frame of when they were called like during the night. Is it after hours, is it? I’m gonna assume most of them are after we are closed in the parking lot. Um, you know, we try to get people out.

01:04:34,800	Quickly as possible there if you’ve ever drove past there at night, it is. There’s A. Lot of people, um I’ve been up there after hours getting in to make sure that our employees, um, are doing their best to get everything ready and get themselves out and the crowd that sits in our parking lot. Is You know I.

01:04:58,730	I don’t know if there’s something that we can do to get them out of the parking lot, so things like these calls, especially that last one. That did happen in the parking lot don’t happen. Um You know? I. Don’t wanna send my employees out there? Because. I don’t feel that. Obviously. This can happen anywhere.

01:05:20,600	I mean you look at stage Stop with knife fights you look at, um, elbow room with that gun incident. Unfortunately, um You know I don’t wanna send my employees out. But. You know we also have an armed security people. You know, that’s not, you know, they’re probably not properly trained to be a security people. They’re just helping us out. Kind of making sure.

01:05:45,270	Peace happens. Um, you know, we have reached out to, um, a professional security team here in Bismarck with no prevail. They. They have not called us back. We have tried many attempts to get some professional, um, security people in the building, so these things do not happen.

01:06:11,330	Um As far as the charges with my husband, you know, I’m not At Liberty to comment on any of that, Um The, Uh, application with the Hay Creek Township. I did submit that it was a day late from their first meeting. Um, I did reach out to Mary. I emailed her our application. Um so their meeting is actually on the second.

01:06:35,870	I believe it’s Monday, um for review. Um But, You know, I think a lot of these calls. You know, and they’re not. They’re some things that do happen. Unfortunately inside the building. I know one happened in a women’s bathroom. I. I don’t know how to stop that. You know, like I. Can’t. We can’t have security.

01:06:59,000	I suppose I could have a female security in the bathroom. Um, but you know, there’s some things that just happen. Um, unfortunately, um and then the police do get called, But. I would say a majority of these are out outside after hours. Um You know we try to get people out of our building.

01:07:19,130	I don’t want people in the building. We know the rules? Um And as far as that. Last, Um Call that you guys did outside when you said the security person was drinking. I don’t know what the time frame was on that You know. Like? You said. They have a drink after work, I.

01:07:41,500	I can’t say I wasn’t there. Um, Like I said. I don’t know the time frame, but they are not allowed to drink on the job That is, you know, looked down upon I was just I don’t know whether you’re the person who asked, but I know we had a, uh the the liquor damaged in establishments in the city of

01:08:01,800	Bismarck Close at 1 A.m.. Everybody has to leave by 1 A.m. You Extend your You’re a 2 a.m.. Do you think that That there was a closure of a major bar that same apparently or same clientele goes to that one that come to yours. Was there a that One hour difference between one and 2 a.m.

01:08:20,530	do those people gravitate from the local place to your establishment? And is that probably part of the problem. Uh, I’m gonna go ahead and say yes. Um, I do believe they do gravitate. They know we’re open to that later hour and that’s something we constantly throw around. Um, you know, for everybody’s safety. We.

01:08:42,070	We, don’t we? We’ve been thinking It is best that we do close at 1 A.m. You know that is It’s I mean it’s No, it’s business. What we make for that last hour, but it is a lot of money. Um, yeah, but you know, it’s the safety thing. It’s our liquor license.

01:09:03,870	Um, you know, so Is it best that we do that? Yeah and that’s something we’ve We’ve really thought about that it It is probably something that we need to do because we do have a lot of irresponsible people. Um That? Yeah. Yeah, thank you. I would say to you know, since Bs closed, um, you can see on the timeline.

01:09:28,800	That That is kind of the crowd. Unfortunately that we are getting up there. Um And Do. I like that crowd it It doesn’t matter, But you know it’s not the crowd we want, but we just want everyone to have a fun time with. You know the DJ with music, something they can Just to have fun and relax dance. Anything else, said.

01:09:53,470	Any other questions. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak. State your name for the record. Good Morning, Mr, vice chair members of the commission. My name is Lloyd. Sir. I’m an attorney here in private practice in Bismarck. Um, I just wanted to step up.

01:10:19,670	Our office currently represents Mr Miller with respect to the pending criminal charges. So. I wanted to just for the background. Uh, for the commission. I do not come up here to discuss the, uh the historical issues that have been presented. I don’t come up here to proffer. Uh, suggestion as to how the board should or should not act.

01:10:39,000	I did want the board to know I spoke to Mr Miller today. His absence here is not due to indifference on this issue. I spoke to him and advised him because there are pending criminal cases. And, apparently now a new investigation, as I understand it from the information provided by Deputy Pollard. Um, I had counseled him.

01:11:07,200	Not to make substantive statements since one of the issues before the Commission, of course, involves the impact of the, uh pending charges and the pending investigation kind of plugged into the over overall calculus that you do have to consider so I just wanted to to bring to the commission’s attention that Mr Miller is absence here today

01:11:25,800	is is again not due to an indifference not due to a lack of concern. Rather. He is following the the advice of counsel Uh, because of of of the tendency of those matters and, of course, needing to to protect those interests as as well, So. I just wanted to bring that to the commission’s attention, And.

01:11:46,230	I certainly welcome any questions that I may be able to answer as maybe posed. Thank you, Mr. Sure any questions for No. Thank You OK? Thank You Thanks for that point of clarification. Anyone else wishing to speak. Good. Morning commissioners. My name is Rich Stedler I am with, uh, Mat Pack Wrestling Club.

01:12:18,730	We are the charity of choice up at, uh, crossroads, so I just wanted to say a couple things on behalf and and I. I don’t know anything about about the charges.

01:12:35,730	I’m not here to speak on any of that, But but, um Uh, I know, just from our point of view on what on what we deal with with, uh, Jacobs from jake and Jocelyn. They’ve been great to us. They’ve they’ve been fabulous to work work with and work for on on that part of things.

01:12:53,870	I know there has been trouble up there in the past, they have made some changes as far as and I think this is probably why there’s been less calls. I know they’ve added more more bouncers, uh, on those on those nights, those troubled nights I think if you probably At their business in general, probably Five out of the seven nights I probably have zero issues, zero issues and, um Um So I, I think, um You know there.

01:13:14,200	There’s some good things that come out of it by allowing us to be there as far as charities where we are able to take some of the funds that we raise up there and and put them back towards the communities And. Those are, uh, there.

01:13:28,600	There’s some good that comes out of it, I guess is is really what I’m trying to say. 11 thing we’ve done recently and maybe I’m not sure if it if the sheriff took part of this, but not terribly long ago, we were contacted by the Bureau of criminal investigations. They were trying to do some Some training that was not in their in their budget.

01:13:47,800	Uh, kind of a run and gun, uh, urban situation. Um, and it it was a, uh, an event that sort of happened close to where our facility was. So it was an easy thing to get behind.

01:14:05,400	They approached us asked if we’d be interested in helping with them with it, and we paid for the whole thing, and those were those were funds, Uh, that came from from Crossroads that help help with the law enforcement and I’m Not. Sure. If. They’re sheriff sent anybody down there or if they were part of any of that, But, But.

01:14:22,000	It’s something good that comes out of it, and, ah Um Uh, I know sometimes when you look at at the list of those calls, it can look bad, but I was in a bar business for 10 years. In fact, I.

01:14:37,570	I was an assistant manager at bucks for a while, and, uh, if that was all our list of calls that went to the city of Bismarck boy they’d been they’d have been tickled. You know it was it sometimes with with the bar business. Let’s be honest liquor in certain personalities. They don’t mix well, they just don’t There’s incidences. You can do everything possible. We We had 14 bouncers on weekends at bucks. We still had issues still had fights still had problems.

01:14:58,370	You know some of those things just never go away. They don’t And. Uh, um You know we kind of need to be honest about that, with liquor and liquor establishment. Sometimes. There’s issues, And it’s a, um Point of managing those things, if if the biggest problem is the two o’clock close Maybe the answer is Hey. You.

01:15:18,200	Gotta close at one. You. Gotta close at one too many problems after after one o’clock, and and maybe that helps some of the problems I Do Feel bad for for Jocelyn. I feel like Some of her issues are caught up in in And some bad stuff and I. I know her to be a great person.

01:15:37,130	I deal with her. Every week. I deal with her and I know she’s up there. All the time she works hard, she she she runs a good business. She tries her best, Um I can’t say enough about her I.

01:15:57,600	I and I feel for her in this situation I do and I feel like They’ve had such a short window to try to come up with an answer. Or or a, um Um, a solution to this problem, I would I would urge you to think about Employees. Us our employees. You know they’re They’re all affected by this decision, and and I would ask on their behalf some time to come up with a plan And.

01:16:21,200	Maybe it’s just by the next meeting. You know the next the next. Uh uh, meeting you guys have maybe they they They better have, uh, have some some, uh some things in in place.

01:16:40,830	Um I know they put their blood, sweat and tears and their life savings into this business, and I know when you look at some of the things with with the drug activities, Yeah that’s hard to overlook, but I think there’s there’s good things also Any questions. Thank you any questions? Thank you, sir. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? Second call. Final call. Uh, Julie.

01:17:11,300	I want a question if we were to not renew this because Um I’ve got two concerns. One is the fact that the Millers are both on this. Um, would there be anything to prevent? Joscelyn from reapplying.

01:17:42,670	Um, for a new license if we were to were to not renew this one and Would there be anything that would allow It to come back to the county Commission for appeal, because I would be very interested in seeing what uh, the township has to say in their meeting on Monday. So. First of all your first question was, could she come back? And? Just, uh, make an application on her own. It depends on how the business is set up. Because the laws.

01:18:00,800	Um, consider that there may be a corporation or a limited liability partnership, you know, And. It’s an applicant. Um, and the manager has to have these, um these criteria as well be of good moral character, not have any of these convictions, And, So it depends on how the organization is set up. And.

01:18:18,030	Um, so that may not be an option. Um Regarding whether or not they could appeal it Now, you can table this issue until you know if you’re if you’re on the fence and want to wait, Um, to get more information. Their current license is, um, still in place until June 30th.

01:18:36,070	The application deadline is June 30th. The. New, Um, permit would start July 1st, So your decision has to be made before then. And so, um if you wanted to wait to get more information, you certainly can do that. Um, if you deny the application or the renewal at this point they could put in for another renewal.

01:18:51,530	They get the information you’re lacking, and if that’s the issue, um, that can be done as well. So they’re options, OK? Mr Vice chair if I can Comm. Munsen a year ago, uh, while we were having this very same conversation, um this committee was very specific to jake. Um our concern was the 1 A.m. versus 2 A.m..

01:19:15,600	The business chose not to listen to our suggestion. Um, and the comment was that’s their profit hour and I get that as a business owner. I understand that? Um, but if these issues Continued.

01:19:39,070	It is, it continued because, as Jocelyn said, they’re happening in the parking lot after hours and we were very strong in our decision in our statement that that 1 a.m. Should have been followed. It’s not our choice. We, can we? We can’t make them choose, But.

01:19:57,430	That was something we were very specific about in our decision a year ago, and they chose not to follow it, so I don’t have an issue with this continuing on in the boat right now. Mr Schwab. I remember the meeting last year, and it’s kind of sounds like Kind of a replay. Well, We’re gonna do this again, and we’re gonna do this then. But I, Look at the facts here and last year we weren’t talking drugs. Last year we weren’t talking guns. And In a year.

01:20:25,630	I’ve seen a This stuff adding up so there are accomplishing nothing up there, But. They’re saying? Well, we’re gonna We’re gonna go and accomplish something now, which is what they said last year. I don’t see it and Like I said. Drugs and danger the kids in this colony.

01:20:46,870	If This is getting to be a Something happening out in the parking lot. They should be calling the police or the or the Sheriffs and say, Hey. We got a drug deal out here. If they don’t know. When they say I don’t know how to fix it or they don’t know what’s going on in their parking lot. Uh, I do have a problem.

01:21:06,670	You know I would assume they have at least have security cameras up there. Do they function? Or whatever you we used to own a bar when I was young, you know who the bad guys are. And I. Don’t. I. Don’t see them.

01:21:27,000	I see them moving backwards from last year, and now they’re gonna Give us the same story. I can’t I can’t go along with that. For Woodcox. Um, I have to agree with both other commissioners that the main thing that I’ve seen this new is in this month of May, the four people that were arrested for drugs in the parking lot and they’re from out of state and we know all of

01:21:44,530	our drugs are coming. You can talk to our department of the city, please. They’re all coming from out of state, primarily in the Detroit area that has nothing to do with this.

01:21:58,400	But when they have a major drug deal with out of town, Uh, people that are in the parking lot and they may have been inside. Who knows, uh, that to me is a real concern. Long term because we just if we were to So Not renew this thing. I think we catch a lot of criticism and who knows what’s going to happen in, uh, June? July or August? I mean it could.

01:22:14,470	It’s It’s certainly not going in the right direction? It’s It’s, uh, going downhill in my mind and, uh, the charges personal charges that that are still pending. Um, um There is one that’s come to trial in June 21st whether we want to wait till the end of June to make another special meeting and another decision.

01:22:33,700	I, um, in my mind, we’ve already got enough evidence to do the, uh Non renewal right now. And. Uh, that’s where I stand because the drug deals and the shootings are if we were to allow this, we’d be in for a lot of criticism.

01:22:49,730	And who knows who’s gonna get shot or who’s gonna die of an OD and I just can’t agree with renewing it. Well I. I agree with you. Something happens up there now and this is out on The public, and we we know about it. We’d be shirking our Or duties. The other thing is My motion isn’t to put this place out of business. But it seems like you got Somebody.

01:23:17,470	That’s Using door money, maybe to pay for drugs. And is now a charges for drugs. Uh, why would we renew that? I mean that gives them time to start thinking about it because they can always reapply.

01:23:43,800	But If there’s somebody that’s Involving cocaine and prostitution and stuff like that, as far as I’m concerned, they need not apply, because I’m not gonna support it. So. They have their chance on renewal the sort it out when that comes back to my question on the business structure and how that is so that you know the opportunity is there If if there’s a clear path for that, but, uh Any other discussion.

01:24:04,700	Hearing on call the roll, please. Comm. Munson. Yes. Comm. Schwab. Yes Comm. Woodcox Yes Vice Chair Bakken. Yes, motion carried. Uh, this, uh, will not be renewed unless new information comes forward, and they and Have an opportunity to appeal or or see what the business structure looks like with that, Uh, this meeting is