00:00:09,100	We’ll call the meeting to order, uh, first on the agenda, Marla, would you call the roll? Comm Bitner. Comm Connelly here, Comm Jarratt. Here. Comm Munson Comm Patrick. Here. Comm Risch. Comm Streifel here, Comm Zuroff. And Chair is not here. All right. We have a form.

00:00:42,370	The first thing on our agenda tonight is obviously, uh, the approval of the March 12 minutes. Uh, do we have any additions, corrections, or to any of those visits? Moved to approve as presented. They’re not seeing you. second. Play your mic a little closer. Oh. We have motion of the 2nd for approval of the minutes.

00:01:05,270	All those in favor say aye. Approved nay. Motion Passes And we’ll move on then to the consent agenda. Um There are none, no items there. Uh, correct, Marla. So then we’ll go to the public hearing agenda.

00:01:30,100	Uh, the first one would be the special use permit, uh, request, uh, Marlo will go over that for us. Yeah. Good evening, Commissioners. This is a special use permit application request from Jason and Jenny shops, uh, the location is 9100, 16 2nd Avenue Northeast. Croft Township, Section 35 Southeast 1 quarter southeast 1 quarter. The project size is 620 square foot manufactured home.

00:02:13,500	They would like approval of the special use permit to set the manufactured home on their property, which already has a single family residence, and they would like a Du past recommendation to the board of Burleigh County Comm.

00:02:38,630	It’s The public hearing notice was posted in the Bismarck Tribune, March 22nd and 29th, surrounding surrounding property owners were notified March 26th and it was posted on the Burleigh County website on March 27th. Jason and Jenny shot um requested a permit on February 9th to set a small manufactured home on their property, their property contains 39.86 acres with the single family home, accessory building, and a farm building.

00:03:06,100	They would like to set the manufactured home to use as an office because the manufactured home contains a kitchen, bathroom, and bedroom. It could be considered an additional residence according to the Burleigh County zoning ordinances. The shots were advised to apply for a special use permit allowing them to set the manufactured home on their property.

00:03:31,630	Croft Township was notified of the shots’ request cross township is an organized County. They recommend passing the special use permit. They have no concerns regarding the manufactured home or the proposed use. Staff findings. Article 8 special uses states the board of the county Commissioners find it, finds it necessary to require that certain uses because of unusual size safety hazards, infrequent occurrence effect.

00:03:59,370	On surrounding areas or other reasons be reviewed by the County Planning and Zoning Commission and the board of Burleigh County Commissioners prior to granting of a building permit or a certificate of occupancy and that the planning and zoning commission and the board of County Commissioners be in our hereby grant given limited discretionary powers to

00:04:21,100	granting of such permit or certificate. The request to use the manufactured home as an office space on a property with a single family home is an infrequent occurrence which qualifies for a special use request.

00:04:46,730	Burleigh County ordinances Article 3 definitions, dwelling, single family describes a single family dwelling unit as having a minimum living space square footage of 900 square feet. The manufactured home is 620 square feet. It does not qualify as a single family dwelling unit. The special use permit would be required to set the manufacturer home. All requirements for applying for the special use permit had been completed by the property owners.

00:05:09,230	Planned use of the building is appropriate for this location and cross township has been consulted and they recommend they do pass to the planning and zoning Commission. Staff recommendations, the petition for the special use permit meets all administrative requirements of the Burleigh County zoning ordinance staff recommends approval of the special use and giving a due past recommendation to the

00:05:36,900	board of Burleigh County Commissioners. As always, you can approve it, approve it with conditions, deny it or table it for more information, and I put up there the location of the mobile home. Sure. Oh, Marla, I just have, I, I know it’s 39.86 acres and it sounds fine to me.

00:06:02,170	I’m just saying, is that significant that it’s under 40 acres? It’s 40 acres of threshold for some of these things? Well, 40 acres or more. OK. You don’t need a building permit for like an accessory building if it’s for farm use.

00:06:23,870	Um, but the significance on this is that it is a manufactured home with a kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, and could be. In the future, used as a resonance, and that’s why we requested it. Chair.

00:06:49,730	Comm, uh So with that, uh, you know, Burly, so Burleigh County is responsible for issuing septic permits, uh, are they applying for a septic permit with this, um, I mean, are you guys gonna be requiring? A full, I mean, you know, full septic system that meets the requirements, you know, on a per bedroom basis with a drain field sized accordingly and all that stuff, or are they kind of trying to skirt by that by saying it’s oh, it’s an office.

00:07:07,370	They haven’t applied to us for a septic permit. OK. Um, And that wasn’t what we were looking at today. We’re just looking at whether they would be allowed. And like we said, it could be a single family residence. Correct. Well, correct. I mean. It’s just one of those things. Oh, we’re putting it in as an office. Well. Yeah.

00:07:27,900	Who says I can’t just go sleep in my office or have the in-laws come and sleep at the office. Or a farm hand or have somebody live out there and that’s my, my only concern on uh, you know, because there’s, there are plenty of other options, cheaper options, you know, with those like, uh, those, uh, uh, uh like a true

00:07:49,830	office trailer or something like that, you know, like a construction office trailer, that would be a lot cheaper than a, even a cheap mobile home. To utilize as an office, so I, I mean, I’m kind of, this isn’t really isn’t really passing the smell test for me as far as that goes.

00:08:11,170	Especially because I’m talking sewer. So, I mean, generally I don’t have an issue with it, but I mean, I’m, I, I’d kind of like to see an appropriately sized septic system place with something like this if that’s what they’re trying to skirt, so. Yeah.

00:08:32,000	And I, I, cause I, I get it, that’s you’re talking, that’s 15 to 2000 right now. I, I get it, but. If you’re gonna do it, do it right. And if you’re not Don’t do it. Sure. Yes. And, and my, my comment was gonna be exactly the same, you know, without having sewer. applied here, I’m uncomfortable approving it. At all.

00:08:59,230	So I don’t know the rules on if Burleigh County does the sewer permits if that’s a state thing or how that works, Mr. Chair. There’s a part of the certificate occupancy, they’ll have to have a sanitation provisions for this building. As part of your emotion, you may consider having it as contingent on an office only. It’s not specifically for residential use.

00:09:22,200	He’s the, the, the owner of this is in a trucking business, and he just wanted an office for to for his wife to work and to do all the paperwork and stuff like that. But if they’d want to change it to a single family residence, that would not be allowed.

00:09:35,100	But there’s nothing that needs to be changed for it to be occupied as a single family residence is kind of the point I’m revoke the kitchen. She’s going to want to use the bathroom rather than going back to the house.

00:09:53,100	Yeah, that’s, that’s appropriate use as far as I’m concerned, because it’s because it has a kitchen, but to allow a second family there is the point that it’s not. We do not, we can revoke the successful use permit if we find out that there’s another family living on this property. But how do you, how do you, uh, how do you as the.

00:10:10,900	Regulating authority and probably the person to be doing that. How do you regulate that this approval of this as part of the approval. Special use permits can be pulled out any time. If there’s. Well, I think as Mitch indicated, you could indicate it’s for office use only as opposed to.

00:10:31,730	Uh, residents and I think that’s what you were suggesting that could be part of the motion. rule or the condition could be with a properly sized sanitary system. That’s why, that’s kind of where I’m leaning because I’m kind of reading between the lines of. Unless we have somebody here to speak on behalf of the applicant tonight.

00:10:48,800	I don’t see them here. It’s all. Well, and I think, um, It, it would take some very hard a kitchen, if it’s got a kitchen and, and you would assume that maybe she now is going to keep the books there, but she’s, uh, I would agree, she might.

00:11:05,770	Have a refrigerator in there and have some food, so she could cook her food. And she’s gonna need a Uh septic system or to handle the waste, the kitchen wastes something. Any other comments? Anywhere questions. Oh Uh, Mr. Connelly, chair Comm Marla. Um, Can’t really tell the distance, I mean.

00:11:34,170	It’s their liability and things, but trailers aren’t are known for, uh, if they catch fire, they go quick. And the proximity to the building on the map, I mean, that’s a lot of. Um, even in trailer parks and that there’s.

00:11:57,170	Distance between trailers, um, any concerns with that? Well, we would require him to be set when they set the mobile home. That they were required to set it so far away from the building that’s not to scale. That’s just to kind of show you where they’re planning on putting it. Yeah, I don’t you give me an idea they’re planning on putting it by the big. Building and I apologize.

00:12:18,470	I didn’t check to see, um. If that accessory building has septic already, you know, if it has a septic. That would have been good to know. Yeah through the written part and everything, there weren’t any dimensions, so I thought it. Yeah, at least. Yeah. Yeah, they just said it was 6. 620 square feet.

00:12:40,370	Well, and regardless if it has septic that accessory building has septic or not, they, they would need mod there need to be modifications done to the existing system to add additional drain field. Comm Bitner I think that was Nick. Oh, maybe. Yeah. Mr. Chair. Mr. the building codes call for a 10-foot setbacks on a residential buildings.

00:13:06,530	Fire code. Any other questions of Marla? Comments. Mr. Chair, I would move to approve the special use permit with the condition. Oh, sorry, you’re right. We need to set the public hearing. So sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt. OK. Uh. You’re correct.

00:13:33,200	At this point in time, we would go ahead and open it up for public hearing if there’s anybody here to speak to the, uh, special use permit, you would approach the podium and say your name and please sign them on the register. Anybody here want to speak to the, Special use permit. One more time.

00:13:55,100	Anybody you want to speak to the special use permit. You know, we’ll call the public hearing that. Now, Yeah. Comm Munson take her away. I would move to approve the special use permit with the condition that it properly sized. Uh, septic system. Must be installed. With this unit. And and give a Dupat recommendation to them. Commission. I’ll second that.

00:14:26,100	Seconded by Comm Zuroff, first by, uh, Comm Munson. Any, any further discussion. Any further discussion? Seeing none, we’ll move to roll call vote, Marla. The motion is to approve the special use with the condition that a proper septic system is applied for. Second, OK. Applied and installed. Applied and installed. Applied and installed. OK. Comm Connelly. Yes. Comm Zuroff? Yes.

00:15:13,530	Comm Streifel? No. Comm Jarratt. Yes. Comm Munson. Yes. Comm Risch. Yes. Vice Chair Patrick. Yes. One pose. So the motion passes. The motion passes. All right, we’ll move on to the next item on the agenda, which is the Article 8 special uses, uh, Mitch. Good evening, Commissioners, Mr. Chair.

00:15:58,370	But we have back before you again. Data center section Article 8. It becomes necessary to consider amending the current Article E to allow data centers within an eye district industrial district. Under a special use permit.

00:16:23,500	Data centers are facilities that contain large amounts of computer systems, IT infrastructure and use remote storage processing or transmission of digital data associated with those computer systems, networks, servers, etc. Article 8 ordinance for data centers was presented at the planning commission on July 10th, September 11th, public hearings were held on November 13th and February February 12th.

00:16:47,230	This is a continuance of the February 12th public hearing, uh, with the motion at that time to prove failed by a 4 to 3 book. So what you have in front of you. In your packets. I A um revised ordinance. All the sections in there that are highlighted. The definitions. The cryptocurrency data center, cryptocurrency, cryptocurrency farm server farm, data center, those definitions have changed high density load service has been added.

00:17:16,900	Owner a definition of owner has been added and sensitive properties have been added. The um The next section that was changed is uh uh applicability section I. Data center regulations or um it’s highlighted again. Data centers are are applicable to data centers, regulations are applicable to data centers requiring consistent electric loads of 50 megawatts or more.

00:17:51,630	Anything less than that is not in this article. Mr. Chair. So this will only apply to more than 50 megawatts. Yeah, we have to come back with one that’s less 50 kilowatt kilowatt hours per year kilowatt. Those are for residential. I put those in there as a category only.

00:18:10,370	OK, but only applies to 50 megawatts. That’s pretty big. It is. Well, it’s not. What we’re seeing, but In the industry, but yeah, these, uh, we have to, um, Come back with an ordinance that is less than 50 megawatts. Because there appears to be You know, interested in doing. Data centers in your home.

00:18:34,230	Or in just a small business. Kind of a cottage industry that’s coming into play. Um, so that’s what this is. The um Um The next section in the applicability is 1 point or I 0.1. D. Is the preliminary plan. At the last meeting we had Uh, Nick, uh. Can think of his last name.

00:19:15,470	He was here from the, uh, from Ellendale, and he, we You didn’t, we just called for a site plan. So we’re calling for a preliminary site plan. Um, the, the next section was the um I, I section 1.1 point D. includes the um also the In that D section of photometric plan that shows all exterior lighting.

00:19:50,100	For a definition of photometrics is um. the measure of light in terms of its perceived brightness to the human eye as measured by a photometer. So Next section is in HI1H is the special humor that was. The Special use permit will be based on a 0.001% times total project cost of up to $1 billion.

00:20:19,470	This was discussed at the last meeting, and Um, Ellendale is, is way past a billion dollars in their cost, and we could see the same thing here in Burleigh County. A billion dollar permit would cost a million dollars. Which is not uncommon in the industry. I’ve issued billion dollar permits before.

00:20:43,830	For, for building permits? Um They complained too, so. But it’s part of the industry and 0.001 is not much of a percentage fee. I kept it at a billion dollars. If you guys want to cap it at a million dollars, I don’t, doesn’t matter to me. It does money doesn’t go into my pocket. But it’s an industry.

00:21:12,230	There are many other jurisdictions in North Dakota has that have that same. Uh, scale, permit scale, fee scale. The next section. It’s in um. Design standards 3 Number one, Has the data data centers are cryptocurrency data centers shall be set back at least 1 mile to all sensitive properties.

00:21:56,500	As defined sensitive properties are back to the definitions as you recall. Um, such as single family dwellings. A, um Schools, churches, synagogues, and other similar religious or institutions or structures and public parks is measured from the nearest property line of any of these sensitive properties to the data center’s exterior property lines. Uh, as you recall, this was changed from 0.5 mile forward to 1 mile.

00:22:21,470	I’m seeing much higher setbacks and there’s there’s 5 other counties in North Dakota that have a very similar ordinance to this. I’ve seen setbacks up to 5 miles, 4 miles, 2 miles? So this is um. A mile is, I thought was a fairly good. Setback distance from these property lines.

00:22:52,100	The other one is was discussed at the meeting, uh, bearing the electrical wires in section, uh, 3. Our, our item 3 in section 3. The um We’re getting into design standards from the State Electrical Board and NEC and that’s not our job.

00:23:18,230	Um, it’s, I just basically said they will comply with the standards of the North Dakota Electrical Board and any of its rules or regulations. So if they want to keep it above ground in in conduit or however that’s if it meets NEC and it meets the state electrical boards regulations and Why should we be considered, you know, part of that consideration.

00:23:39,170	The next one is, uh, I’ve added generators. The um Because of this, but because of generators, it was at the last meeting. You may recall. That uh they stated there’s over 60. Generators at the Ellendale site. Or will be And they’re all, they, they are 33 megawatts each.

00:24:09,000	You know, uh, 3 megawatt generator is, is a large, large gene. It’s, it’s 20 ft wide, usually they’re 20 ft wide by 8 20 ft long by 8 ft wide. They weigh 39,000 pounds and they’re capable of decibel levels up to 80.

00:24:28,730	And so we had to address some of that for, uh, the testing of them and the running of them and all that sort of thing. It’s, it’s kind of That’s a large amount of generators. I can only imagine what they sound like. And they are important to a data center for its cryptocurrency management because it’s uh.

00:24:50,630	It’s they’re capable of, of, of creating the 100 and 180 megawatts, all 60 of these generators. Um But they, they want to keep that data up at all times. They’ll lose serious data when they have enough power outage. Mr. Chair, Comm Risch, Mr.

00:25:11,000	Chair, uh, Mitch, you know, I’m looking through the proposed ordinance and that the rear end of it, you’ve got a different ordinance that Relates to a city, is that just an example of someone else’s order? I’ll, I’ll get to that, Comm Risch. That’s that model ordinance that Nick had uh suggested we find. OK, because they had 80 decibels there and ours is different.

00:25:27,000	I, Yeah, that’s, that’s uh a model ordinance that was created by the League of Cities. Well, I’ll, I’ll get to that too. So the generators are in that uh section 3. 3 Um The generator testing is limited between 11 a.m. and 5 p.m.? Generators use is limited to backup emergency only.

00:26:01,170	Um, this, the, these items here are I, I talked to a, a planner in Colorado. About this and she was in a the the city of, they hired them for their new ordinance review and creations and stuff.

00:26:22,000	And she replied, I sent this ordinance to to review about the generator system, and she came back and stated that it is common ordinance that the time for testing generation, generators is limited to weekday or workday hours. Which is what is It also its common to state that generators can only be used in backup emergency situations. So they’re Um, it’s just a simple Test your generators during the day. Yeah, weekdays, that sort of thing. Um. The next Um, I added building permits.

00:26:54,900	Section 6. At the time of the uh special use permit approval, building permit for all proposed structures will be required. Permit information it’ll include applicant name and contact the applicant was also identify on the application contact information for the owner, owners of record of the property, the occupant or lessee of the property and

00:27:17,470	the operator of the data center. Some of these guys are contractors, they just build these data centers and they move on. And so we want to know if there’s a problem, if there’s issues, if we need to get in the building, we need to know who to contact. There are issues who to contact.

00:27:35,630	As you recall in the definitions I added. Um I added the definition of owner. Which states any person, agent, operator, entity, firm, or corporation have any legal equitable interest in the property are recorded in the official records of the state, county, and municipality is holding an interest or title to the property or otherwise

00:27:58,130	having possession or control of the property, including the guardian of the state of any such person and the executor of the administrator of the state of such persons if ordered to take possession of the real property by a court.

00:28:20,470	So there are many, many ways for to be Oblique Hard, hard to locate, so that’s we we have issues with this. And we don’t know who to contact. We have to have some information. That’s Stan for the standard for the industry. We don’t have to reveal that that name to the public that’s on the building permit.

00:28:37,000	It’s privileged, uh, you know, information that we don’t just hand out to people. We don’t, we didn’t want the name on the uh special use permit. Because then people are gonna contact, that sort of thing and that’s what he was Nick was saying that that that’s uh.

00:28:56,470	Nonstarter or something about the application he did not want anything to do to do with the owner’s name on the special use permit. We do need the owner’s name after this building goes up. Um, let’s see, where am I now? Number 7 Number Number 7. Yep, the facility will be required to obtain an in North Dakota, uh, Department of Biosecurity.

00:29:31,630	That’s DQ permit if they should have been a queue. If they discharged water to the surface. If they’re going to use water to cool these computers and they just run it off the back on the ground or whatever they’re going to need a DEQ permit. Um, sound.

00:29:54,900	Number 11 The operator shall not cause, allow, or permit the operation of any source of a sound which creates it at an occupied residential building or defined sensitive property as may exist at the time of the issuance of the certificate of occupancy to the data center, a sound level that exceeds the daytime continuous sound level of 50 DBAs or a nighttime continuous

00:30:15,270	sound level of 40 DBAs decibels for any 15 minute measurement interval unless otherwise. permitted. The operator shall not cause, allow or permit the operation of any source of sound which creates a pure tone where the 1/3 octave band sound pressure level in the band of interest exceeds the rhythmic.

00:30:36,000	Average of the sound pressure levels for the two adjacent 1/3 octave bands correspondent decibel levels. As follows, 5 for for center 5 decibels for of center frequencies of 500 Hertz 8 decibels for center frequencies between 160 and 400 Hertz, 15 decibel levels for center frequency less than

00:30:59,000	equal of 125 Hertz. A pure tone shall be deemed present at measurements. This deals with the low hum. That low pitch, Tom. Mr. Risch. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair, uh. Where did you get all, this is pretty complicated stuff here. Yes, it is.

00:31:20,370	It’s, it’s, it’s refining the definition of noise and the ordinance, we have no noise ordinance in Burleigh County. And the only thing that we can follow is century code, which has Nothing. It’s, it’s, it determined by a nuisance call? OK, but where, where did you get this? I got this from, from other ordinances and across the state. Adopted ordinances.

00:31:48,130	Uh, Mitch Um, just to explain, um. You know, I, I have some experience in the noise field myself, and those are for different frequency levels that come from different types of machines and which they may or may not be added to this facility.

00:32:07,370	And, uh, the other, the other concern that I had, I mentioned this so much earlier, uh, and I, on, on 11 there, M Mitch, you talk about the, uh, facility you’re talking about 45 decibels. This is for an existing residence nearby. Right. Um, measured from property line to property line.

00:32:24,470	Yeah, you know, and I, I, I don’t have a problem with that if it’s, uh, If somebody decides to move in, but the problem is that the background. A decibel level a weighted in North Dakota somewhere between 32 and 35.

00:32:43,630	And, and I’m sorry, could you, what’s the background decibel? The background level that you can go out and measure out in the in the rural area where there’s no machinery operating or anything at nighttime. It will be about 35, maybe a little less. And so if they’re going to build next to an existing residence then that 45 might be a little high there, but I think it’s OK.

00:33:03,830	For it to be there uh in the event, let’s say they’re away from any existing residents and if somebody decides that they want to build next to that property, that’s their problem. Yeah, true. So, that’s, that’s kind of where I’m at. That’s what I was trying to discuss too early. When we were, uh, in the upstairs, Mr.

00:33:23,630	Chair, that you think that 45 is too high in this, for this particular instance because that’s an existing residence. And I think the existing residents is entitled to have a background that would be the normal natural background sound level. OK. Mr. Risch Chair Mitch.

00:33:47,800	Uh, it doesn’t explain where this is going to be measured from. Is it going to be measured from the property line or from the building itself or where? From the property line to the property line. Go ahead. Proceed. OK.

00:34:14,470	Next Is the data uh uh item 13, the data center operations you’ll provide a 24 hour emergency contact signage visible at the access entrance. Signs shall include company name if applicable, owner representative name, telephone number, and corresponding local power company and telephone numbers. Item 19, I added the line stormwater management plan will need to be included in this. Um Uh Section 4 decommissioning plans. Uh, item 2.

00:34:46,630	Um, I changed original to pre-existing. That was a it was discussed at that last meeting that decommissioning plans not needed. Um It’s a Industry standard for, for having a decommissioning plans for mining for gravel pits, for For any large structure, any large facility. Um, the intention of those uh decommissioned plans is to remove a building that is. no longer usable.

00:35:19,170	or intended to be used. It’s not, it’s not intended to take down a Uh, expensive, uh, industrial belt concrete structure that’s a million square feet. Somebody could use that. Somebody would buy that.

00:35:39,000	But there was mention at that Ellendale site that they had turkey barns designed, they’re designed they call them turkey barns, but I’ve seen aerial photos and they look like turkey bars. That’s what this would be for, who could use the facility like that. Who could use a shack that was built as a as a data center. Who could use that after they’re done. This is not for a really high class building.

00:35:58,100	An expensive structure. It’s for these You know, lower, lower cost, buildings that are unwanted, buildings that could blight an area. And that sort of thing. It’s industry standard. We’re not asking for anything new or special here.

00:36:24,130	Mitch’s are going to be any um With your decommissioning plan, do I, did I see anything in here on, on, uh, Uh, holding uh. How, how are we going to assure that they are financially prepared to uh Carry through on the decommissioning plan. Well They’ll have to, they’ll have to provide proof of that. Some kind of secure security or proof.

00:36:54,500	That they usually it’s typically 2 times the cost of the building. is an industry standard for decommissioning plant. It’s not that we hold the check. They don’t give us a check and we hold it for them. They, they just have provided security for that amount and a bond issue or or however they want to do it.

00:37:10,500	Should that be stated in here someplace? Well, on page 4, I think. Is it on 4? Page 4? I didn’t see it. expensive Financial security that’s OK. OK. Yeah, 125%. what it is.

00:37:50,630	Any questions? Any more questions? from the Commission, Yes, Comm, I guess the question I have is on the model ordinance that they have a setback of 4/10 of a mile. Um, when I look at one mile, For many of these listed structures, do we even have a place in Burleig County where one could be constructed. Absolutely, yeah. Really? Yeah, there’s A mile, yes, absolutely 5 miles northeast.

00:38:15,100	But before I get into that model order, I would like to discuss the tax revenue, Mr. Chair. There was um discussion about how much tax value that will bring to Burleigh County. And I’d like to break that down a little bit. The, the only thing that can be taxed on that is the land and the building. Anything in the building is not taxed.

00:38:32,730	If you can unbolt it and take it out of there while it damaged in the building, it’s not taxed. So the value is in the computers, not the building itself. La, of course too. But the uh just to break it down a little bit, um. In tax terms these these buildings would be viewed as a storage warehouse.

00:38:54,100	And um 100,000 square foot building, which is $10 million in tax value would bring $92,000 a year in taxes. Of a million square foot building, which is what he’s talking about over there in Ellendale. That will bring 750,000. Um, you’re in in taxes. Their, their tax lower because they’re larger, but that’ll bring 750,000.

00:39:22,370	Um, Ellendel site has $2.5 million square foot total or will. So that would be a 1.875 tax. Revenue in a year. Large amount, larger attacks. But you can also get that million dollars in uh in tax value from 100 lot subdivision. Or 200 lot subdivision.

00:39:44,530	These things, you know, nobody’s gonna want to build near these things. And it’s unless the land is so cheap that, you know, that sort of thing for development costs, but you see, you got to relate to other things that are comparable in tax value. Um No, like that’s all I had I wanted to talk about that if you got any questions.

00:40:03,100	You just got one more comment. Mitch, um, I just wanna give you a background on that, that 32 decibels I was talking about, 32, 35. Yeah. Uh, a number of years ago when Falkirk Mining was planning to mine closer to Riverdale.

00:40:23,000	Uh, we went up there and we measured the nighttime sound level in the town of Riverdale, and it was around 35. And so that’s why, you know, that’s a real community. It’s obviously going to be different in Bismarck.

00:40:38,900	It’s going to be a little noisier because of the traffic and, you know, the stuff that’s going on, but these data centers are going to be, especially if we’re going to be a mile away from the rural. So And that’s, that’s my, I just wanted to explain where that number came from. We know what that number is. Mr. Chair yeah, they, one consideration I didn’t put in here might discuss right now is that the measure of the ambient level or sound level before they build.

00:41:01,170	That May should be included in there. I mean it could be. Next to the interstate, which has a 50 decibel level already. Right, I think that might be a good, a good move to do that. Um year. Chair. Yeah, question for you, question for Mitch.

00:41:22,000	I mean, you’d say 35 in a quiet tone, uh, what’s 10 Grain bin heaters. You know what, what sound level do they run at because. I like green bin heaters, blowers. Cause I, you know, and again, it’s, it’s kinda. Uh If we’re, if we’re gonna be talking noise on stuff.

00:41:52,000	I’ve, I’ve I’ve been on farm sites all across the state that, you know, they’ve got 20 large grain bins and every single one of them have 3 or 4 blowers on them, and those things go at all hours of the night and during the day they’re loud. when they’re in operation.

00:42:10,100	I know it’s agricultural versus data center, this that and the other, but at the end of the day when you boil it down, it’s all noise, right? Well, but that’s the individual owners’ decision if he’s going to run those things next to his property, that farmer. That’s his decision to do that.

00:42:29,230	He can turn them off, but we’re a Greenville elevators located typically? Or where, where a grain elevator is located. In in in communities generally, um, Uh, at the edge of town usually. Well, I beg to differ. Garrison, Max, they’re all in the middle of town.

00:42:51,230	Some maybe, but the point is we, we measured, we, when we measured, we measured Riverdale, and that was the that was in the summer. That was June, July. And uh obviously there wouldn’t be anything running then. So that is the background radiation or radiation background noise level. Right. I’m just, I’m just saying if we’re talking noise and communities and people and stuff, I mean.

00:43:15,100	Just so you know, there are communities that have, in fact, many communities in North Dakota have noise ordinances, including the City of Bismarck. Mr. Chair, we don’t. Burleigh County. We do not, we, I don’t know how to even start to enforce it. We’d have to have out of the million dollar permit fee, we’d have to save some money in there to to hire.

00:43:37,100	Somebody to determine what it is. I mean, we could buy a decimal meter, you know, uh Audible me and go out there and. You know, But that’s the problem we have with this is, is that sound. It should be measured after this building is built. To make document it and it should probably be a yearly.

00:43:58,470	Analysis of that. Because it’s, we’re dealing with sound after the fact. If we’re dealing with a nuisance call on on sound, we’re dealing after the fact of the next day, going out to the could be total different atmosphere atmospheric differences, uh, winds blowing in a different direction.

00:44:15,130	It’s colder that day. It’s hotter, that sort of thing. And where do you measure it from? Where you’re on a hill, you’re in a valley, or, you know, it’s, it’s all sorts of things that that are hard to determine.

00:44:30,470	That’s why we have this before, before we issued an occupancy permit, we want to measure the, well, actually after the occupancy when they’re up and running. Oh, well, I’m only pointing out that this particular section where there’s already an occupied residence. That 45 might be too high. The 35 might be a better number.

00:44:48,630	The rest of them, because you’re building a mile away from these residents, you’re probably not going to have impact of noise at that distance, OK? So this is the only section that I’m trying to point out that Could be of concern. Right, that you, I will also point the Commissioners to uh Section 3 Number 18 Additional uh conditions or specific allowance to this ordinance may be considered in the review and approval of special permit.

00:45:22,230	It’s on page 7. Yes, Comm, um. To your point, Comm Patrick, um, I actually, my wife and I, uh, we landed in, we were in the new. Just uh Denver airport, the first week that it opened.

00:45:46,200	And they actually had a little sidelight where they did an educational piece, and they basically said people were tired of being living near an airport. And there was nothing around it. And now there’s a whole lot of people that have moved in. Well, if you buy after an airports built in the middle of nowhere, that’s on you. But if something comes in when you’re already established.

00:46:06,730	I mean, there’s been a lot of meetings both at the city and county level, about something new. Asking for permission to be in there and, They haven’t gone through, so it’s something valid. I, I, I agree.

00:46:28,100	I, I, I, I was at Denver when that uh airport was brand new and there was nothing around it, and all of a sudden it’s crowded and, and I agree with you that that’s on them. They should not have built there. They should have known better. But this is a situation on this particular part of the audience where there’s somebody already there.

00:46:41,870	And so I’m thinking that that should be a background, but anybody who decides to build next to the place, that’s on them again. It’s no different than Denver. That’s what I’m getting at. Mr. Risch. Yeah, Mr. Chair Mitch. Uh, the model ordinance, city ordinance is 80 decibels. That’s considerably more. And if you look at the model. Oh, yeah, we’ve got at the back here. Yeah.

00:47:00,500	8, 80 decibels in a city. That was created by League of Cities and who would, who can? 80 is, is very high, extremely high. Yeah, I, I don’t, I don’t see how that would be allowed in any city in all the jurisdictions, I sent that out actually.

00:47:23,730	I sent that out to all all the jurisdictions that are part of the. Uh, planning and zoning association and they all responded in the same way that they would never adopt an ordinance similar to that. That that that’s was written clearly for, for. The people who want to build data centers. I mean, a setback of 2,112 ft.

00:47:46,900	A quarter of a mile is 4/10 of a mile is. I don’t know if I can throw a baseball that far. Any other questions or comments? Any other questions or comments for Mitch? OK, thank you, Mitch.

00:48:14,730	Uh, at this point in time, uh, We would probably want to open up for public hearing, but before we do that, I want to indicate that, uh, comments need to be limited to no more than 15 minutes and it needs to be new information. Um, and if there’s, uh, Other information that someone wants presented, they should present it in writing so that it can be forwarded on to the county commission for their review if this um.

00:48:36,000	Ordinance is moved forward to the County Commission. With that, um, we would open the public hearing and I would ask if there’s anybody that wants to speak. To the Article 8 special uses data centers, uh, proposed ordinance.

00:48:55,730	Um, if there is anybody, uh, state your name and uh if you are in the room, uh, please approach the podium and sign the roster. One of you has got to go first. I promise I will not take 15 minutes. Um, just, I just want to point out one thing, um, I know, um, Mr. Phillips is actually online. He said he’s having trouble hearing and he’s not being allowed.

00:49:26,630	Be presenter mode, so I don’t know how that works or what that looks like, but Um, Nick Phillips. put them in the I put him in as a presenter. I will check with them back there to see why they haven’t opened him up. Sure. Um, Mr. Vice Chair, uh, members of the commission, uh, my name is Nathan Schneider.

00:49:54,270	I’m the vice president for the Bismarck Mandan Chamber EDC. We are the economic development provider for the, for, um, the county of Burleigh. Uh, I just wanna, just have a couple of comments, um, I’m not, I’ll be honest, I’m not really sure what version of the ordinance I have, um, there wasn’t the, the

00:50:12,100	agenda packet wasn’t online, so I wasn’t able to see the, the agenda packet and what the ordinance, the most updated ordinance was, so if, if there’s things that I’m saying that have been changed, um, my apologies.

00:50:28,630	Um, I, I, I’m dealing with the version that I have just, um, just want to point that out. Um, the Chamber EDC, uh, fully understands and supports the ordinances, um, that provide safeguards and, and protect the county.

00:50:50,500	However, we do want to express our concerns about the proposed data center ordinance, which we believe is overly restrictive economically short-sighted and and out of step with the needs of a modern forward-looking community. couple of uh things that were a little bit concerned with, uh, we feel like this, this ordinance discourages innovation and economic growth.

00:51:10,270	The ordinance creates significant barriers for companies looking to invest in data centers, artificial intelligence, and digital infrastructure with excessive permitting requirements and high financial security deposits, the message this sends is clear. Burleigh County is closed for digital business. This is the way that that economic development is going, these, these data centers are looking at communities across the country, um, and with this type of ordinance in place, we’re we’re sending a message, I believe. Um Yeah.

00:51:31,100	Uh, Mitch talked about, um, you know, some of the bad actors and, and we all are aware of the example of Up in Williston, the Atlas Project. And the issues that they had up there. That’s why there’s special use permits.

00:51:47,730	That’s why there’s this commission, that’s why there’s these meetings so that you can all decide if, if it’s worthy to continue to move on. Let’s not put an ordinance in place that’s restrictive. That chases away all the good actors, the applied digitals that are coming in and looking at our community. We need to have parameters and safeguards in place.

00:52:03,230	I understand that, but if we’re chasing away the good projects by making specific exclusions for, for the bad actors, we, we’re just limiting our options. The rules are overly broad and unfair. The ordinance lumps together very different types of facilities, data centers, blockchain mining, and AI infrastructure without distinguishing between their impacts.

00:52:28,170	A small clean data center is treated the same as a large scale industrial crypto operation there, that’s not a, a balanced regulation. The, the facility in Williston was a crypto mining facilities. It’s the hog barns that Mitch is talking about. It’s the turkey farm, the turkey barns that Mitch is talking about.

00:52:44,630	The open air facility that are just essentially a gabled roof. The data centers that we’re talking that, that like applied digital are building, they’re closed facilities, they’re very highly secure closed facilities. They, they’re not, they’re not the type that are the, the, the, the turkey farms. Um, the setback requirements are extreme and unrealistic.

00:53:07,230	A 1 mile buffer from Holmes Park schools and churches effectively bans data centers for most of the county. That’s not just protective, it’s prohibitive. Comm Risch talked about it and yes, there are areas of the county that that are with outside of that one mile from a structure.

00:53:29,730	The problem that it is is that you also, there’s also the industrial zoning requirement that they have to be within an industrial zone, so they have to get a rezone on an, on an egg parcel, or I have to be an industrial parcel that’s outside of a mile from a structure. That chat GBT. Uh, is that, is that 15 minutes already? Holy cow.

00:53:53,730	Um These, these facilities, they’re not, they don’t, they don’t want to go into a spot in the middle of nowhere and in, in the middle of a mile section that’s a mile from, from a, a, a facility. They don’t want to go there. They want to be.

00:54:10,230	Where the, the power lines are, they want to be in close proximity to power lines. They want to be in close proximity to heavily traveled roads so that their workers can get to and from you heard, um, Nick talking about it in his Ellendale facility.

00:54:25,730	They, they want people living in Ellendale because if there’s a snowstorm, And they can’t get to the facility, that costs them, that costs them hundreds, thousands, um, sometimes even more dollars. Um, the process is burdensome and bureaucratic from requiring market demand studies to revealing customer information.

00:54:45,000	I know Mitch talked about it, that it won’t be listed on the special use permit, and it won’t be listed on the, the building permit. It’s still something that these companies, there’s, there’s very few companies that can even be a customer of these large scale data centers that they have teams of legal, of, of lawyers that um they’re, they’re gonna, they’re gonna balk at that. They’re not gonna want to put their name on stuff like that.

00:55:10,130	Um, recurring, uh, requiring developers to pay a special use permit fee of 0.001% of the cost of the project as well as uh post 125% of the cost of maintenance at 125% for a full reclamation before they even break ground is a level of financial burden that most developers will simply walk away from.

00:55:28,270	That’s last opportunity, lost jobs and lost tax revenue, um, I I know Mitch, um, put the, that was not in the in the draft ordinance that I had, the, the million dollar, um, Um, cap on the the max on the on the special use permit.

00:55:47,000	But Even still, a million dollars for these uh for these companies to post as, just as a special use permit fee. A lot of times they’ll they’ll just walk away from them. Other colonies are are welcoming data and AI investments with reasonable oversight, yes, but with the spirit of collaboration, this ordinance positions Burleig County as an outlier, turning away from the

00:56:06,270	very technologies that will define our economy and infrastructure in the next decade. This ordinance looks a lot similar to um the Williams County ordinance that, that SRF consulting uh wrote for them, um, looks very similar, and I know McKenzie Coney adopted it as well. It’s a little bit different environment up there.

00:56:27,630	Um, they’re, they’re looking at putting data centers at wellheads. They’re small scale data centers at Wellheads. We’re, we don’t have wellheads here. Um, we’re, we’re in a completely different environment than than what Williams County is in.

00:56:48,870	Um, we absolutely can and should set thoughtful standards for development, but that means crafting a policy that protects residents without pushing away progress. Um, let’s aim for a fair balanced rules that allow good projects to move forward while safeguarding community values, uh, just in closing, I urge you to rethink this ordinance. Um, we, the, the Chamber EDC urges you to rethink this ordinance.

00:57:08,100	Other communities are looking at ways to collaborate and sometimes even incentivize data center development because of the increase. tax base and high paying jobs, these types of businesses create.

00:57:24,100	Um, it was mentioned at the the March Commission meeting, uh, that we should not allow business to make to make the rules, and while we at the ChamberDC generally agree with that. Um, we also need to be aware that these are, these are typically not um local developers, um, citing these facilities. This isn’t a, this isn’t a shop condo developer that’ll work within the ordinance.

00:57:41,630	These are large scale data center developers that if they, if they find a path of resistance, if they see hurdles and barriers, they’re just gonna go somewhere else. They’re gonna go to a different area of the state, they’re gonna go to a different county. They may even go right across the border in Kidder County.

00:57:57,170	And so we see the issues that data centers do create with noise and light and dirt, but we don’t see any of the benefits. Um These are tip, um, these are typically developers that have met with a large amount of resistance, like I said, we’ll simply move on to a different area of the state. Please do not put Burle County at a disadvantage.

00:58:16,800	Um, and with that, I’ll stand for any questions. Mr. Risch. Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, Nathan, what kind of jobs are we talking about? I understand these data centers can be all various sizes, but you know, we’re talking the Ellendale one is except exceptionally large, but a typical data center.

00:58:38,730	I know we’ll have construction jobs and whatnot, but after it’s constructed, about how many jobs on average would they have? Yeah, Mr. Chair, uh, uh, Comm Risch, that would probably be a really good uh question for, for Mr. Phillips to answer. I don’t have an answer for you.

00:58:58,000	I would venture to guess that there’s a large range of the types of business. If you have a crypto mining facility that’s in, you know, the, the turkey, the turkey Barns as they’re referred to, um, essentially just a, a roofed structure, uh, open air roof structure, I would venture to guess that there’s probably not a lot of

00:59:16,630	high paying quality jobs, the applied digital example though, um, and I think Nick talked about it in the, in the last meeting or the February meeting. Um, there are some high paying jobs, a lot of them, um, that are coming uh from that facility. Mr. Chair, Mr. Munson.

00:59:38,000	Nathan, when we’re talking about the permit cost. You know, up to a million dollars. Do you have a recommendation? Of, uh, I mean, I’m gonna ask Mitch to, you know, the kind of the same question, you know, what.

01:00:01,000	For a million dollars permit, what time and energy is and work is invested by Burleigh County that we need to pay for, but what would be a fair permit fee. And I know that’s probably a Nick conversation, but you know, I, I like what you said, but I need. Answers to, you know, how to make it better and so I guess that’s what I’m looking for. Yeah, Mr. Chair, uh, Comm Munson.

01:00:24,100	It’s my understanding that special use, that permit fees in general are to offset the costs of staff time of you all coming together of, you know, um, time and, and, and staffing and all of that stuff. For the life of me, I can’t believe that, um, a million dollars special use permit fee.

01:00:49,000	That that there’s that much staff time and meetings and all of that stuff built into a million dollar. Special use permit fee. That seems like an exorbitant. Amount to me, um, to me, I would, I mean, I would.

01:01:13,100	deferred to, to Mitch and and to Nick to figure out what, what is involved in that, um, how much staff time, how much of your all time is involved, um, in that process. And set the fee based on that. OK. Thank you. Excuse me, Chair. Um, I talked to Dakota Media Access and Nick has to accept being a presenter. He keeps declining. So if he accepts being a presenter. He should be able to get online. Sounds like he’s in. Uh, Comm Connelly.

01:01:46,630	Well, I, when you mentioned the Williston Data Center, you mentioned it in a past tense sort of thing, but just last week, MDU is asking for an increase in fee specific to that data center for I believe it was $7.06 bringing the first request and the second request just under $21.

01:02:09,200	So it’s not a past tense argument. Now, I, I believe at least one other person and things we’ve, I’ve met with people that explain he keeps declining. I, I, I think I’m on here. I don’t know if you can hear me. That’s being a presenter. He should be able to get online. Sounds like he’s in. You guys can hear me? Yeah. Uh.

01:02:28,470	Yeah. Um, well, uh, when you mentioned So it’s a present tense thing. And that so. I don’t know where to go with that since you stated it in past tense form, it’s still very real for, and when you’re talking, it affecting all of the electric bills across the state. That’s significant. Mr.

01:02:53,470	Chair, uh, uh, Comm Connelly, if, if I If I created the perception that the Williston Project is in the past tense. I apologize. I, I, I honestly, I don’t know where it’s at in terms of continuing to operate or or what or where it’s at. I know the, the, the, the increase you’re talking about.

01:03:13,170	What, what I would say. On the reverse side of that, the applied digital facility actually decreased rates for MDU provider, for MDU customers, um.

01:03:35,630	And Nick can give you the, the number of, of what the what the what the decrease was for MDU customers and they’re looking to actually Increase the decrease, um, in coming years as the facility gets up and running, so I, I think.

01:03:56,100	That, that’s, I think, where, where you all come into play and where the county commission comes into play to make sure that The, the bad actors stay away and that the the companies like the applied digitals of the world are the ones that we’re, we’re getting a serious look at. The problem becomes when we have ordinances that are over burdensome, that essentially just push him away and push everyone away. Good and bad We don’t even get a chance to talk to the good ones.

01:04:15,800	And that’s where, and that’s where we struggle at the Chamber EDC that’s where we struggle because when we’re, when we’re talking to some of these data center developers and But Full disclosure. I don’t know if they’re good or bad, when we’re, when we’re just in the preliminary talks with them.

01:04:32,170	But when we hand him the, the draft ordinance, and they look at it and say, well, there’s probably 3 or 4 non-starters in here for us, and walk away. It doesn’t even give us a chance to talk to the good ones. And that’s where I struggle. Comm Zuroff. So, um, Two things for you, Nathan, so.

01:04:55,630	We’ve got Data Center Williston Da Data Center L&L. They are both. Outside of town, OK, Ellendale even to today is not a sprawling metropolis, OK, um, it, it just, it isn’t, OK? Uh, Burlee County is the 2nd most populated county in the state.

01:05:18,200	Right? I mean, we’ve got our state capital here, we’ve got Man down across the river when you add everybody all in, OK? I think there needs to be some control because you’re not talking, uh, you know, when you, when you’re talking about going into Ellendale one, as the crow flies, that facility is 2 miles out of town, OK? It is uh quarter, maybe, maybe a half mile away from their facility

01:05:38,370	to the closest residences, so, OK, we can. You know, play tit for tat on how far back from resident, you know, from residential structures it needs to be, but at the end of the day, it is down in Ellendale. Middle of nowhere.

01:05:58,730	OK, so to, to say that, well, you know, they, you know, they wanna be close to the infrastructure. They’ve already proven it twice that that’s not really a deal breaker, OK? Um, we, as far as economic development and stuff goal like Mitch was saying, I mean. We’ve got other industries that can serve the tax revenue as well.

01:06:20,630	I mean, so you start talking about, yeah, land gets developed, you get tax revenue generation based off of the houses, all that other stuff. So it’s, it’s kind of what I’ll say, leveling the playing field. If you want to come in and develop in Burleig County, here are the rules, OK? and simple.

01:06:39,830	Um, the second thing, when it comes to the million dollar permit. Quick question from Mitch and I’ll get back to you. So, when you say project, are you talking about site development and building construction, or are you talking about including the cost of all of the equipment that goes into this facility as well, or you just type or is

01:06:59,100	that permit fee based off of just the taxable structure on land. That’s a good question, um, building permits are based on all, all the construction of the permanent construction the HVAC, the plumbing, the. Yeah, the, you know, it, in, in, in the building.

01:07:21,130	Yeah, I, it’s, it’s hard to determine the total cost of a project like that. I don’t, for, for our permitting purposes, but I would say the hard cost, not the buying the property or anything like that, but the hard cost, the hard, the hard cost of the of the.

01:07:39,100	physical construction and yeah, and the computers, equipment inside would those be included in. I would say no. OK. So, that’s, goes, goes back to my point. I really highly doubt. You’re looking at a billion dollars of construction into any of those facilities.

01:07:59,170	We’ve got Dakota Carrier Network that I promise you that maybe a billion dollar facility when you start including all the equipment and the computers and the technology that’s in it, but the, the physical structure itself and the development of the land in the parking lot. You’re not talking a billion dollars that generates a million dollar.

01:08:13,630	A million dollar fee, you’re, you’re, you know, you’re probably looking somewhere in the neck of the woods, yeah, maybe, maybe $100,000 you know,, $100,000 fee which I’ll, I’ll, I’ll say to by the time you start adding in all of the time that I mean, we are basically volunteering our time for, for the paychecks we received for being here, at least the ones that are appointed to commission, but if

01:08:35,630	you’re talking billing that billing our staff out of what would be considered private entities. Standard billable rate, billing, billing Mitch out at $225 an hour, and if he has 200 hours sucked into this thing just to just for permit review on something like this and all of that stuff.

01:08:52,630	OK, well, now we’re talking, you’re getting into 400 to $50,000 of, of expense right now. So, I don’t think that 10%. Is even it, it’s, it, it really does probably cover this, you know, and that’s why it’s 10%, it’s not a fixed rate because it, it’s adjustable to the size and the scope of the project.

01:09:16,170	When you start looking at a lot of your We’re talking a minimal, minimal fraction of what they’re gonna be just into the engineering and not, I mean, not even construction, just the engineering and the surveying and the architecture of everything.

01:09:48,370	So I, I will push back on that comment, Nathan, about, you know, 10% being egregious, I, I, I really don’t think it is those those costs for staff can add up. And, and everybody’s time involved and then if they have to hire consultants to, you know, for additional staff support. I, I think that is more than fair. It’s all, Mister Chair. Yes.

01:10:11,770	The I, I don’t want to interrupt your speaking, but the idea of those permits, the, um, it’s not just for. The current project or the effect of the current project, but it, it’s basically for, for something like this, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s going to be basically a spot zoning doesn’t

01:10:33,630	have to be in an industrial center. It could be an eye land, but it’s zoned. And so you’re creating a In essence, the spot zoning, which is going to affect our future land use map, our comprehensive plans, and it, it. You’re at the point where you almost need to create an overlay district for these.

01:10:53,370	Which are to do all that and and include that in your zoning, we’d have to hire. Consultants in. You know, people who are much smarter than me at planning. For something like this because if we see one, we’ll see many. And that’s That’s, you know, one of the reasons. So.

01:11:13,630	Now that makes perfect sense. I would agree that the 0.1%. is really minimal. Any other questions? OK, thank you. Uh, anyone else want to speak again, time limit, 15 minutes and please sign the roster and state your name. here that. Uh, good evening, uh, Commissioners. Mr.

01:11:59,100	Chair, my name is Greg Owen with Capitol Electric Cooperative, uh, manager of engineering services is my title. Uh, I don’t have a lot of real hard and fast comments. I just said a couple of things, uh, like Nathan mentioned I haven’t had a chance to review the latest draft of the ordinance, but, um, I just want to commend everyone’s input on this.

01:12:14,630	I think this is a a very pertinent topic and again time limit, 15 minutes, and please sign the roster and went back in time, do I get to add add more time? Um, I guess in terms of Capital Electrics, uh, as the co op’s perspective since we served.

01:12:34,230	The vast majority of Burleigh County, especially the rural areas we’re talking about some of these setbacks, it would be something definitely in our purview to, to consider, um, I guess, uh, I do like the idea of having different thresholds, the 50 megawatt above or below or wherever that number lands at, uh, we’ve had a number of different members ask about smaller sizes, um,

01:12:51,800	how that would work, especially things like a grain site where they maybe only utilizing their facility for 1 to 2 months of the year, how can they? Use that resource the rest of the year and help uh get some payback there.

01:13:07,870	So I’ll I’ll just let that be for now, but I appreciate that perspective, um, one thing about project costs, I just wanted to maybe mention for consideration, um, of these scales, the 50 megawatts and above, a lot of these folks are bringing, they’re gonna take delivery at the transmission level and have their own substations, transformers and circuit breakers.

01:13:28,370	There’s, there’s a lot of costs involved with that infrastructure, um, I don’t know if that’s part of. What you’d consider the project for a permit fee, but that those would add up very quickly if that. Is part of it or if it’s decided to not be part of it, um, maybe something to consider there, um, for clarification.

01:13:46,900	I guess another thing I noted just in the comments, commentary so far, as far as generation on site, um. Capital Electric probably gets 1 to 2 requests per month on average for sizes we’re talking here, um, just, you know, out of the blue, haven’t heard of these folks, but they’re calling and and looking for sites.

01:14:04,530	But a lot of what they talk about is bringing their own generation to site first until the grid can catch up because it’s Could be 3 to 6 years before anybody could get power delivery to this scale to those sites.

01:14:23,730	Um, so it, it may not be just looking at it from a backup perspective, um, some of these folks might be looking to use their own generation, whether it’s to avoid peak charges or some demand response options or just that’s their only generation source for a period of time.

01:14:40,270	Um So that that would just be something I, I would maybe point out that Um, again, I haven’t seen that language, but if it’s written in such a way that’s only for backup or only for uh testing. Um, there may be other considerations for that. Um But I guess just in a uh respect to time. I, I just want to open up if, if there’s any questions I could, um, stand for them here from a power provider perspective. Any questions? Mr.

01:15:01,130	Risch, Mr. Chair, I’m just a little concerned that these, the people that are appearing at the public meeting didn’t receive the latest draft or was it, I mean, it’s a public hearing if we didn’t post the latest draft, that could be an issue. All right. Mr.

01:15:19,470	Chair, Um Marla, uh, We’re gonna have to look into this, but We believe moral assent on a copy of this ordinance to Mary Senger to be put onto the site. That, uh, the site does not have that. It stops at the May 12th March 12th meeting.

01:15:40,100	But the public hearing that’s published in the paper 10 days before this meeting states that a copy of this draft ordinance is available at our office. And they couldn’t find it. They certainly, they certainly have our email our contacts that we would, we would have loved to send them a copy. We don’t. This is bad.

01:15:57,730	I, I, I apologize, but we’re going to look into it and see what happened because it, it’s typically they’re always published online on, on, on our website page, a copy of it. I wish, um, they were contacted, we would have sent you an immediate, immediately sent you a copy of it because that’s not, we’re not trying to hide this ordinance from anybody. Mr.

01:16:17,000	Risch, yeah, I just want to say what it says in the draft I have is that a generator. Use his limited to backup emergency use only. in the proposed. Graft I have. Any other questions or comments? Any other comments? Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else want to speak to the, uh, proposed ordinance. he’s got nick.

01:16:47,870	Website page copy of it. I wish, um, they were contacted. Can you all hear me? I’ve got a, I can’t hear anything through Zoom. I can only hear through the Uh, through the website and it seems to be a minute delayed. In the draft I have is that a generator. Use is limited the backup emergency use.

01:17:10,370	Yes, Turner’s volume down. I actually. Any other questions or comments? Any other comments? Thank you. Anybody else want to speak to the. ordinances. We, we really can’t hear you unless you speak website page, a copy of it. So it seems that the video is just delayed.

01:17:43,900	Um, what I hear on, on the website and there’s no audio or video through Zoom. Seem to be a minute delayed. So I’m gonna try talking and, and hopefully this works out, and it’s gonna be very hard for me to answer questions, I think, but. I’ll just go ahead.

01:18:01,770	OK, just to, so you understand, just so you understand this, this ordinance, I, I have to say first. I’m, I’m a little bit disheartened. Um, at the February meeting that was going on, Uh, we had talked about, you know, waiting till post session. To, to work through this model ordinance. Unless you speak like I’ll be able to. So it seems that the video is just.

01:18:26,730	Delayed Uh, what I hear on, on the website, and there’s no audio or video through Zoom. So, I’m gonna try talking and, and hopefully this works out and it’s gonna be very hard for me to answer questions, I think, but.

01:18:49,130	I’ll just go ahead, OK, just to for you this ordinance I, I have to say first, I’m, I’m a little bit disheartened. Um, at the February meeting that was going on. Uh, we had talked about, you know, waiting till post session. To, to work through this model ordinance. And that’s what I did and it brought up the website for some reason. I think I might hear somebody now through Zoom.

01:19:16,170	Can you hear us OK? I hear you now. it booked out. Can you hear me? Yes, uh, yeah, this is, uh, vice chair Dale Patrick, just to remind you that we, we have only 10 minutes, you have only 10 to 15 minutes after which time we will, uh, then open it

01:19:38,630	up for questions. All right, I’m getting messages that I should try to talk again, but I can’t hear you. So I’m just gonna try. So I’ll I’ll, I’ll start over here. So, at the February meeting we had spoken about potentially waiting or had spoken about waiting until post session.

01:20:09,630	Um, to, to revisit this ordinance. So there’s, there’s a couple of things I want to clear up that I, I heard some talk about the. Draft ordinance that you all have, uh, there, it seems like is something that’s, that’s very early, um, the League of Cities and the Association of Counties have spent very, very

01:20:25,770	little time with us or with others on this. This is out and about in a few different counties and and cities. That are looking at it, but it’s, it’s very, very early.

01:20:42,900	And I was, I was hoping that post session we’d be able to work through a very collaborative process to to work through the ordinance and, and that 80 decibels, for example, is just the placeholder, but to be able to work through some of those things, um. I’ll, I’ll run through some of these. Is that I, I just took notes on during the the meeting so far, uh, to, to be clear, we agree there needs to be some controls.

01:21:02,230	We don’t want to be a burden on neighbors. We don’t want to put anybody out who’s, you know, lived in a place for a long period of time. Um, in Allendale, we, you know, we cited about 0.57, so a little bit more than a half mile away from a resident that’s not often there.

01:21:19,130	Um, there is another resident that’s about a half mile, but they’ve got a lot of trees, so it’s a different situation, um, the, the, the permit fee that’s been talked about, I think that the main challenge here is that it just needs to, it needs to be more clear as what project costs would be subject to

01:21:36,630	Discharge inside of an ordinance and also what things would get permitted. Um, basically there’s some very highly technical items inside of the buildings that are proprietary that we, we wouldn’t want to put out into the world and, and also they, they’d be very hard for the city or the, sorry, in this case, the county to really go

01:21:58,100	through those things. So, you know, from, from my view, if that scope gets limited and then that fee becomes something more like 100,000 or $200,000 you know, for a large project, I, I could understand how that, that may make sense, um.

01:22:19,900	There was some talk about recording and, and putting in writing who’s in the building. The, the challenge here is in our case, we’re the owner in in the case of somebody else being an owner, I think that the owner of the building and having contact information, you know, available for them, makes a lot of sense, but you can’t have the tenant information.

01:22:35,830	The tenant could be a private organization, it could be D DoD. It could be military. It could be something that you, you just can’t have and it can’t become part of any.

01:22:53,470	public records Um, but I do think it’s reasonable to have a contact, uh, to provide you, um, in the case of some of our, our larger customers, you couldn’t call them. There’s not a number to call. And if you did call them, they wouldn’t talk to you, um, so, so we can’t just be told you have to give all this different contact information. It, it doesn’t. Doesn’t really work.

01:23:09,730	Um, some of the sound stuff that we, what I’ve seen in here comes out of California. Um, we’ve seen that float around a little bit. I, I don’t think it makes a whole lot of sense to make North Dakota into California, um. Certainly that’s my view. But, but that’s, that’s just something I’ve seen.

01:23:28,730	Uh, there was some talk about background level noise for 32 to 35 decibels. I, you know, I could see that at certain times of the year in certain conditions, but measuring is tough. Because the winter, summer, spring and fall could all measure entirely differently in terms of ambient noise.

01:23:47,900	So if, if somebody complains later, hey, the noise is different than you measured or more than you measured as at the ambient level, it might just be because it’s a different season.

01:24:06,170	So would it be the requirement to have to measure, you know, every hour of every day for an entire year and then report that back or what happens when one year is wetter or drier or windier. Or whatever one year to the next, and that that has an impact. And, and what I want to say here about this is we don’t want to impact people.

01:24:24,370	You don’t want us to impact people, but you also don’t want to create an ord ordinance that’s going to cause, you know, the police or the sheriff or some staff hired to run around with noise measuring devices just to run around and and deal with complaints all the time because you’ve made something that’s so complicated and very technical and hard to enforce, measure, and really understand and it’s, it just becomes a a huge

01:24:43,470	challenge. So, I think it has more to do with pairing the buildings. In places that make sense, you know, don’t put it directly next to a school, put it in an industrial area where somebody might not care or something like that. Um, in terms of decommissioning, this has just got to go away.

01:24:59,630	This is not an open pit mine. This is not somebody’s destroying nature and putting something up. We’re talking about very large buildings, you know, our buildings are about 900,000 square feet apiece going forward, um, even if, if, if it were a smaller, a 50,000 square feet or a 10,000 square foot

01:25:19,470	building. It’s a building, whether it’s a turkey barn. Style metal shed that somebody might be able to use for storing materials in or it’s a, you know, concrete building with 2 ft thick concrete walls. I, I think it’s irrelevant, uh.

01:25:39,100	Causing somebody to have to put up, you know, a security to say that they’ll be able to decommission the building is just unreasonable. The buildings have value, whether they’re a data center or something else later, you don’t make somebody put up a decommissioning, you know, for someone’s house.

01:25:54,630	You don’t make them do it for an office building or a hospital or something else, why would you do it for a building like this. I understand you don’t want it to be a blight, but that’s, you know, an open pit mine that, that’s gonna be a a blight, um, not a concrete or a steel building. Um, they have value at, at the end.

01:26:09,000	And as far as you know, having security. Even as a publicly traded company, we end up tying up capital to put up security. If we have to put up a bond or something like that or a letter of credit, it’s still putting, putting up capital and that, that can be prohibitive to people, um.

01:26:28,730	Yeah, so the, somebody did mention something about the, the costs that MDU are going back for that, that is a real issue. Um, that has to do with some pancaking charges and, and some other transmission charges that they’re getting. It’s, it’s really quite complicated.

01:26:47,370	Um, I’m happy to talk about that, not probably here since I can’t answer questions. Um, and then down in, in Dickey County, uh, we’ll, we’ll pay somewhere around $2.1 million in property taxes for our our.

01:27:06,100	buildings over there, um, and growing um here in the, in the, and that’s just the first, you know, couple of buildings that are first big building in the auxiliary buildings surrounding it. Um, so, so we’ll end up paying quite a lot of property taxes down there, and the assessments are, uh, as, as I think Mitch mentioned are on the buildings, and some of the components, but, but much of the component components, the computers, for example, are personal property, those wouldn’t get taxed.

01:27:25,370	So, there, there is a big tax revenue here that there is about 30 to 350 employees that will hire. They are higher paying jobs down there. There is a benefit there.

01:27:42,230	We, we certainly did pick Ellendale, um, which is remote, but we picked it due to the electrical infrastructure that’s there, but we’re having to deal with a lot of issues in regards to housing and roads and other things that if we were in Burleigh County would be a different situation. We just have to find the guardrails here. So, um, unfortunately, I’m out of town this week. I will be there next week.

01:27:58,000	Happy to visit with some individuals, but My hope here is that this can become a collaborative process, the legislative session is probably just a few weeks away from being done.

01:28:16,630	Um, and after that, the association of Counties and the League of Cities and us and some other counties and cities are all anxious uh to go ahead and start working on, on this model ordinance to get it to a place where people can accept it, and my hope is that you’ll take no action here today. And instead, you know, working in a collaborative manner with a bunch of other folks around the state. to get something really good to come out of all of this.

01:28:31,270	I’ll, I’ll stop at that time and I still can’t hear you, so. I’m not sure what to do about questions. Are you able to hear us, Nick? No. No, no. discussion from the Yeah Oh Um We want to close the public hearing. Yeah, we’re going to, we’ll close the public hearing. Um Mr.

01:29:07,900	Chair, a few comments, um. These data centers we’re not focusing on Nick’s project. Let’s, let’s get that out in the open. I these to me it sounds like he’s done a fantastic job in Ellendale. I do appreciate his comments because we made some changes to the ordinance because of him.

01:29:30,230	But we’re looking at at uh facilities that are over 50 megawatts in power that are gonna be. Large And they’re difficult. They’re challenged to stand a standard zoning, uh, planning model. difficult for, for Burleigh County to get their hands around. Because it’s um. particular site needs are difficult to meet. They essentially this is spot zoning.

01:29:55,830	If we change A to industrial, I guarantee it’s gonna be spot zone. And that’s that creates problems down the road for us. We, it’s it’s going to affect our land use map. It’s going to affect our comprehensive plan with all have to be changed. And, you know, from that. From these permit fees, that’s how we can pay for.

01:30:15,630	A new comprehensive plan, an overlay districts that would be, that would include these. And that’s where, you know, the people can be part of that and they can consider it and see it. I mean, it’s our job. Essentially is to Look at these regulations.

01:30:36,630	As uh needed to protect the communities of health, safety and welfare. That’s what your job is when these permits come up. And if you don’t have anything in the ordinance to as a guide rule or a guideline. Then you’re not doing your job. I’m not doing my job. So people Burleigh County we’re trying to protect.

01:30:58,830	And the These these these data centers are a new type of land use. We’ve never seen them in. In North Dakota we only have a couple of them here. And we’re going to see more. And it’s because the sheer cost of They crypto mining increases everyday almost and so it’s.

01:31:24,500	Um It’s, it’s our job to protect these these Property owners And people who live here. And we’re not focusing on it on any individual, any individual site, it, it does include in that ordinance a very specific line in um. The section of the design standards. Where additional conditions or specific allowances to this ordinance may be considered on review and approval of the special use permit.

01:31:48,900	That’s up to you guys. If we have a good player like, like Nick and he’s, you know, he has a really, really good idea and a good plan. I mean, that’s up to you guys to approve it. We’re not going to be You know Any kind of uh.

01:32:09,830	Just to turn it down because we don’t like data centers that’s not with this ordinance allows them. And The cost of these of this permit is based on those development costs. And it doesn’t include anything on the inside of the building. Anything that is not locked down or damage to the building to take it out.

01:32:31,730	It’s just the hard cost and. Um That’s Pretty much, uh, most of what I have to say on, on, on the comments, but it’s The idea is it’s this is spot zoning. It’s a challenge to our ordinances a challenge to our zoning.

01:32:55,730	The challenge to the don’t have an ordinance in place. Um We’re at risk. Mitch, I have a question about, uh, You know, he, he addressed the decommissioning costs, uh, have you had decommissioning, uh, requirements for any other entity in the county. Um We have them for windars.

01:33:23,130	So, so in other words, this is not entirely new. No. OK. Yeah. So, Take down some notes here and running some rough numbers. We have a current contractor in here without getting into the nitty gritty of things. For an industrial building is $250 a square foot at decent average to build a decent sized building.

01:33:48,100	Somewhere in there, spitballing, yeah, OK, so $250 a square foot. $100,000 or sorry, 100, 100,000 square foot facilities and it costs $25 million OK? You’re decommissioning bond is typically 1 to 2% of the total cost, OK? So you’re looking at spending about $2500 to $500,000 on that

01:34:09,500	the 0.1% would be $25,000 OK, again, we are talking about building a $25 million facility at that point. Now that’s a 100,000 square foot. Nick said 900,000 square feet down in Ellendale. OK, let’s. Apply those numbers.

01:34:35,100	We are looking at a $225 million facility, OK, bond cost on that would be uh 2.25 to 4.5 million, OK. Again, 1 to 2% of the overall cost. Permit cost on that to Burleigh County would be $225,000. OK. I understand these are really, really big numbers here that we’re talking about when it comes to I paid $250,000 for my house. Yup, for a project this size, we’re talking.

01:35:01,770	They’re gonna pay more in their contractor upcharge fees to carry the risk on this project than they are in bond and Permit fees. Period, period. I mean, so, uh, when it comes down to talking about all this stuff and being cost prohibitive and all that stuff. I’m sorry, OK.

01:35:21,000	Burleigh County carries a 2.5 to 3% cost of entry. If that’s going to stop you from coming here. Don’t come here. Like that’s kind of that’s kind I’m sorry, that’s, that’s my opinion.

01:35:41,170	Secondly, Let’s start talking about the, uh, signage and the posting numbers and stuff outside the facility and, and who needs to be listed. Somebody brought up well sites, Kate. Funny thing is, well sites outside all those well sites, there’s there’s poster board signs, right? Mr. Patrick, Chair, you’re, you’re, every single one of those signs on every single one of those sites must list the owner, the operator, the lessee, and an emergency contact for that facility.

01:36:02,200	Why we would require that for like, why we’d require less for any other industrial facility? I don’t know. It, it to me, it’s not egregious. It is, this is, these are contact information pertinent contact information that the public needs to be aware of for any sort of these facilities because when you

01:36:19,100	start talking about going into, you know, facilities overheating and fires starting. Who, who does the fire department, how does the fire department know who to even call unless that information is posted somewhere. When they roll up on the site and you’ve got a 900,000 square foot facility engulfed in flames.

01:36:39,470	This this is, this is a, it is a real life safety issue. So I’m sorry, again. Crimea River. I digress. Comm, my, my challenge to that, Comm Zuroff is. It hasn’t been challenged that it has to be on the sign. It’s being challenged that it has to be on the application to start the process.

01:37:06,170	When, when we approve a a building permit for a shop condo. We don’t know who the leasees of each unit are correct. That’s my concern with this part. At the application process. We need to talk to the contractor, the building owner, absolutely. Now when it’s operational. You are correct.

01:37:29,470	We need that information, not a question at all. It’s the application part that I have a problem with because again, we don’t know who’s renting a shop condo. We only know the building owner and that’s the important part. Not the lessie, Mr. Chair. Uh, 100% agree with that. We, we don’t deal with the, the runner.

01:37:50,500	We deal with the owner and in the definitions where I, I added on this for the draft, is any person, agent, operator, entity, firm, or corporation have any legal or equitable interest in the property. That’s an honor. I sure, uh, that’s an old. Mr. Connelly, I think you were. Well, go ahead, and then I can go.

01:38:09,630	I think what the complaint was, tenant information is what it was tenant information. Some people, like you said, it might be the defense department that they’re doing some sort of AI stuff with. We don’t, we don’t want that. We’re not interested in that.

01:38:26,100	But it’s, it’s in the it’s in this ordinance that it is the lessee of the property. Uh in the application requirements number or letter A. It asks for the lessee of the property. That’s also why we have variances one. Let, but, um, and on the applicability. Right? Yeah Say A to Glen or yeah. Now I agree. I missed the I missed the word or.

01:38:59,870	Or I can, I can cross out that lesson. Yeah. I’ll, I, if that’s what it could be part of your motion. That would be part of my motion. Right. Um, so, A, Can I follow up, Mr. Chair? Yeah. Thank you. Uh, are you done with your medicine? Yeah. OK. Yes. Thank you.

01:39:19,000	There were some legitimate concerns brought up this evening about this ordinance. I think if we passed it the way it is, we’ll never have a data center. That’s what our objective is, that, that’s what’s going to happen if this passes tonight just the way it is and this countycom Commission approves it.

01:39:33,470	Um, the idea about the standby generators from Capitol Electric. That was a good point. The standby generators could only be used for standby when they in fact maybe need them to get the operation starting before they get proper power to the data center. That’s what the Capital Electric Guy said. So that, that’s problematic.

01:39:50,000	Um, The sound detailed sound stuff, I don’t know, what was his name? Nick? Said something about looks like California information. When I look at it, I’m going, what does this all mean? You, you helped me a bit, though, but it, it seems that overly complicated, overly restrictive.

01:40:08,370	We can have a decibel limit, but, but, but all that other stuff. I, I, I don’t even get it. And the decommissioning, um, you mentioned wind towers. OK. Well, there’s a reason for decommissioning, um, bonds for wind towers because there’s no other use for it. But if you had a building, a concrete building.

01:40:27,370	Or some other building someone else would want to buy it. So I, I, I, I don’t know why we need to do decommissioning. Uh, you might do something with the power lines or something to that effect, but the buildings themselves.

01:40:42,770	Um, and the other thing, the last thing, you know, was mentioned about the plan with the Association of counties, Association of Cities, League of Cities doing to get getting together and putting together comprehensive model ordinance. Uh, that seems to make more sense cause they’re, they’ll, they’ll bring in people that actually Our experts in this field and maybe can address some of the issues that were brought up tonight.

01:41:01,800	So I’m reluctant to support, supporter the way it is. Let r before, before we go, I, I’d like to just clarify that the those different decibel levels are based on different solient types of sounds, for instance, a whirring engine will be might be up here whereas a car engine will be down here.

01:41:19,200	Uh, that’s what that’s about, OK, Comm,,,, 22 points to Comm Risch’s comments, number one. I’m going to give Mitch a lot of credit. He’s done a lot of work on this and he’s researched a lot of other ordinances to create this. So I don’t want to take that away from, from Mitch.

01:41:33,630	The second part of it is my motion back in February. That’s why I told you I was mad at you this morning or this afternoon. My motion was for this to be reviewed after sessions so that we could give the League of Cities and, and, and the Association the counties, time to get together to write that

01:41:51,370	model ordinance. That, that was the main purpose of my, my motion to push this out to June. Now, I’m gonna also back up um. Mitch a lot here. If we don’t have an ordinance and someone comes. We don’t have a chance to even approve or deny it. Because we don’t have an ordinance. So, so I’m, I’m torn.

01:42:14,870	I need to back up Mitch, and I, and we need to, to, to protect our residents, so we need an ordinance. I wish it would, I wish this would have stayed as per my motion and we had a chance to talk about it in June rather than today.

01:42:29,800	I wasn’t here last month and you went around me. I’m just kidding. I, yeah, I didn’t just explain, I think the reason that it was brought off the table was because uh there’s been some interest, uh, is that correct, Mitch? It’s interesting. We did, I did get a copy of the draft ordinance.

01:42:50,630	The draft ordinance and as you can see on some of these areas, they’re draft

01:42:56,730	mean they have things that, that are, uh, sentences that say they’re not limited to such examples. The other one is design standards, you’ll see. Set back 2100 ft. Yeah. It’s the, the completion of the construction and updated noise story will be provided to the city.

01:43:16,630	of the despo level of not more than 80, 80, yeah, that’s a non-starter for me too. These are things that we’re gonna wait till that long, uh, we, we were at risk, but, um. I would rather they not sent you anything. Well, um, This has been adopted by multiple counties in the state. This is not out of the blue.

01:43:38,000	And we’re not trying to stop data centers from coming to Burleigh County. It’s, it’s part of doing business here. You want to come here to do it, I mean, apply for it.

01:43:53,100	But it’s to protect the safety from public welfare of Burleigh County residents that are going to come up to this meeting when we have a public meeting on a, on a, on a project of Of 3 600 megawatts or 685 megawatts, I guarantee you’re gonna have people here not wanting it. So you’re gonna be in the cotton the crosshairs of trying to figure this one out. Comm Connelly. Um, yeah, I.

01:44:18,500	Comm, chair and commissioners, uh, what Comm Risch mentioned as far as the generator that, um, since he took half the, um, portion out of it. I would say that line could possibly be eliminated because the very question of what we brought up in Williston, the engineer brought up that there are peak times to where there’s a significant draw on electricity.

01:44:36,900	So they would run the generators in order to offset some of that peak load. Now that makes sense because then there would be a, uh, Um, if they’re generating their own energy to be sustainable during that peak time.

01:45:02,470	Now we’re not spinning that energy load to where MDU is asking for a rate increases and maybe that’s part of the answer to that question that we’ve been struggling with for so long. Yeah, I agree, uh, Mr. Chair, I agree that generators, I mean, again, we go back to the um Differ different applicable conditions can be applied to this.

01:45:20,630	They want to run generators during the day if they got a power shortage. Why should we not? I mean, they’re gonna lose data. They’re gonna lose money and why should we stop that? But if you’ve got 60 Generators that are 3 megawatts apiece. That each create 80 decibels of noise. Unless they’re inside that building.

01:45:41,470	You’re gonna be hearing them. And that’s what we’re talking here. This is the level that we are talking about here. And that’s we’re not, we’re not looking at a, a 15 megawatt data center. Or, or even a 10 megawatt.

01:46:00,170	It’s these are large facilities that they can come to you and they say, well, we’re gonna run our generators everyday now. And you can do nothing about it. sky well. I, I, we’re going into the unknown on some of this stuff. We don’t have, we don’t have examples, we don’t, we don’t, we can’t predict, but I would like to respond to Mr. Risch, uh, about the concrete buildings.

01:46:21,470	Decommissioning is not to tear down a quality building. That’s not the that’s the reason for a decommission. Decommissioner to take down the buildings that are not valuable. That are not considered usable. There are, that are considered unusable.

01:46:43,770	And it’s not to tear down a $75 million building just because we don’t want it there anymore. It’s If these buildings are going to create spot zoning. And they live, they can also create blight. And they also can create problems. And that’s the pro that’s that’s where we’re at issue here is. We’re not looking to tear down a very expensive building to build. We’re not, that’s not part of the decommissioning.

01:47:06,370	It’s for unwanted structures that cause blight. Like a turkey building that they put together over in Ellendale. I didn’t, you know, I, I’ve just seen aerial photos of it, probably had pretty good building, but do we want to have that? As an empty building facility that we issued a building uh uh special use

01:47:22,770	permit for. We’ll get blamed for that every time they look at that. Comm Risch. Thank you, Mr. Chair Mitch. Wouldn’t the decibel limits apply to the standby generators as well. I mean, as long as they’re under those decibel limits, they’d be OK.

01:47:39,370	So, but what’s the difference when they, when they run them. We don’t know where they’re going to be. Are they going to be inside the facility? We don’t care as long as, as long as the decibel is below our standards. It should be fine. We don’t know that though. Well, if it’s above the standards, we’re going to tell them to stop.

01:47:55,230	Right? We’re trying to prevent problems before they happen. That’s, that’s, we’re, we’re not trying to eliminate them from using it. We’re trying to Consider these things when somebody comes up to this podium and ask you guys to approve their special use permit. Comm Zuroff. And back on that decommissioning plan too.

01:48:13,470	It’s not necessarily tearing down on the building, but it’s OK, the company goes belly up, they have a 900,000 square foot facility packed full of essentially a lot of material that would be considered hazardous waste, uh, that the county now owns.

01:48:36,470	Because they quit paying their property taxes and everything reverted back to the county and it’s basically abandoned property. So then it’d be at county cost to dispose of 900,000 square feet of disposal or of potentially hazardous waste and all that other stuff, so.

01:48:56,470	Again, it’s, it’s not necessarily to tear down the building, but even that decommissioning plan would be make that building in a or return it to a sellable format, you know, cause nobody’s gonna. Pay more than $1 for a building that they walk in and they go, oh boy, I’m walking into $3.2 million of landfill fees.

01:49:20,900	They could be made out of box too like they’re, they’re up in Williston building them out of like you mentioned with your processes and things as far as the names and that. Clean. Like Um, The owner and the applicant to coincide with those. And that option 5s, leave the decibels in so you have that measurement, but take the, uh, line 5 out pertaining to the generators.

01:49:45,730	Um, just so you have flexibility to grow into that space that may impact. It has that flexibility to where you could possibly limit the impacts to all of the citizens in the area. And then, um, Forward it onto the commission. So you get that Structure in place. It can always come back as an amended piece.

01:50:13,100	would be My thoughts. Mr. Chair Yes, uh, Comm. We passed the point of. Of temporary moratorium that we could recommend the county does to protect the Burleigh County citizens until we can get something.

01:50:36,500	That everybody is in, well, not everybody’s gonna agree on anything, but That we can take the time to do the work and get the, the. People who want to speak and Sort these things out the right way. Are we past that point? Mr. Chair, Comm Streifel, we had, there are no moratoriums on data centers in Burleigh County.

01:50:58,000	Are we past the point of doing a temporary moratorium to protect the citizens until we can get I didn’t write one up, but I mean. It’s It’s possible, but that, that thought is it’s a good I wanna comment or reply to Mr. Mr. Connelly is that the, uh, I want to punch you all guys to, uh, item 18. In section 3.

01:51:25,270	Additional conditions or specific allowances to this ordinance may be considered. These are this ordinance is primarily I wanted to write this ordinance as site-specific. In other words, It can be flexible enough for any kind of Uh, data center application. You know, um Mitch, you, you said that you, you’re still getting questions or inquiries about.

01:51:59,870	Not every day, no, no. OK. When was the last time you had one of those? 02 weeks ago. So maybe it is time that we move ahead with. At least, at least, uh, uh, uh.

01:52:19,730	Uh, partial, I mean, as you, as you, as you pointed out, Mitch in 18, that it can be considered review and approval of special use permit, and we could modify the, uh, ordinance later. We have to. Yeah, if we get a good, if we get a good model ordinance from the League of Cities, we can certainly add some of the parts to this. At least we would have something on the table. Um-hum.

01:52:37,170	Yeah, we can always monitor Comm Connelly. So, uh, and I’m glad you brought that up, Mitch. I appreciate it. Chair, Comm, Mitch, um, with that in there.

01:52:58,100	Since that’s a point and that was brought up, and that’s a key rub in this whole Williston discussion, not all data data centers being the same, if you want to leave 5 in, say additional conditions and then maybe in parentheses, including the stipulations of use. Uh, per the like the generators backup, so that. Kind of highlights, we want to make sure we talk about that topic pertaining to these buildings every time.

01:53:22,630	Where the generator conversations there as we try to learn how we um limit the negative impacts to the citizens overall. If that makes sense. That’s up to the board if you want me to include that in that uh specific uh specific allowance. Mr. Chair, I, I think Comm Streifel, did I say it right? Yep.

01:53:46,730	Streifel made a good point. If we just enacted or, or passed a moratorium until we Meet with these groups, the counties, the cities, the players, and then come up with an ordinance, uh, later in the year, and we’d protect the county residents between now and then. Mr.

01:54:06,470	Chair, I did not, I have not created it or a moratorium where I’d have to create that to send this to you for the next month, and then that would have to go to the county commission, so it’s gonna be in May. Again Mr. Munson?? 00, no, go ahead.

01:54:29,370	And let me add to that, um, Chair, Comm Mitch, and all actuality, that direction should come from the commission first, wouldn’t it? Because it is a different ordinance, or would it come through this? Which direction moratorium Moratorium would not be an ordinance. OK. Moratorium is resolution that would be approved by the county commission, but it needs to be reviewed here first and recommended for their approval. OK, I appreciate that.

01:54:51,730	We have a moratorium coming up in the next section of our agenda, so well, and how the timing is falling. It’s all kind of Going to happen in the same time span. But. We don’t know when we’re gonna get a model ordinance. I have no legislative sessions winding up. are winding down. Comm Munson.

01:55:15,800	Comm Connelly, you’re right, and, but, you know, so whether it’s. We see it in May here for a moratorium and the commission in June. If we would have left this on the table until June. We’re all about the same time frame. If we pass this ordinance today with the modifications that we’re talking.

01:55:39,830	At least we would have an opportunity to have Uh, uh, an ordinance in place by May that can be amended. You know, and I think that’s the important part that we need to, to consider. And Mitch has done very well at explaining this, that if we don’t have this.

01:56:01,730	Anybody can come in and do whatever they want and we can’t stop them. We can’t control it. We can’t, we can’t. Do anything with it, and that’s the part that makes me a little nervous.

01:56:15,630	Now there’s pieces in here I don’t like and I, if I make the motion, there are pieces in here that I will change in that motion, but I think it’s important that we get this to the county Commission. Sooner than later. Any other comments, Comm. So, again, to drive home the point that this, even though we would push this through and pass it, this isn’t the be all end all.

01:56:35,470	There are stipulations within the ordinance were very aviations can be made 12, variances can be requested by the applicant at the time of application. 3, if they really, really don’t like this.

01:56:56,370	Instead of rezoning into industrial, they can rezone into a PUD and they can literally write their own and come before us and say this is what we want to do, this is what we feel is reasonable and we can have that battle with him at that point in time, so this isn’t like closing the door on development. It’s not anything, it’s, you know, because again, they are gonna pretty much have to come back through.

01:57:14,470	And rezoned property anyways, so whether they go through industrial zoning or PUD. Not much difference, right, so Comm Munson one more comment and I’ll put my other hat on, uh, as a member of the Chamber of Commerce. I don’t need an ordinance that.

01:57:33,770	is a stop all for them to even look at us, you know, that’s the other part. I I don’t want it to be to the point where people look at the this and go, we’re done. We need to be able to regulate them. We need to be able to make sure it fits within our county.

01:57:49,100	The reason I love the special use permit, they all come here and they all go to the commission for all of the final details, and that’s the part that I love about the special use permit. Any more comments? Any more comments? None? I will move that we accept this ordinance. With the with modifications.

01:58:25,770	Uh, in Applications 1A. I need to strike the verbiage. Must also identify on the application the applicant or lessee of the property and the operator of the data center. Also that same language is in. Uh, item 36. See if I can find that again to make sure I’m speaking correctly. Um Yes, it is.

01:59:03,100	It’s in. So it’s in that section. I, I want to strike that out. Um, Comm, what, what section was that? So 3 design standards, um. Line 6 Applicant name, uh, the applicant must also identify the applicant contact information for the.

01:59:27,170	Owners of the property, I don’t have an issue with that, but the occupant uh or lessee of the property and the operator of the data center, so that last. part of the that line, I would like stricken. Uh, Mr. Chair, that’s for a building permit. That’s not for the special use permit.

01:59:44,770	No, I get that, but it’s still, it’s still listing, listing the lessee, the, you know, OK. We OK. don’t OK., we don’t ask for the, the lessees of a shop condo. I don’t think it’s right that we ask for it in a permit.

02:00:03,000	Um I know this has not been a lot of conversation, but I would move in my motion to move the, the distance back to a half mile instead of 1 mile. And I would for this motion, eliminate. The item K, the financial security. All of K. Ohh OK. That’s it. 2nd, 2, my, uh I appreciate that so we can have some discussion. Motion. Comm Munson and seconded by John Comm, uh, Risch.

02:00:45,100	Is there any discussion? I, I, yes, Mr. Chair, I fully appreciate. Um Comm Zuroff’s comments about having a possible wasteland of Of, uh, property that becomes Burleigh County’s issue. I, I really do. Um. If I owned a half a billion dollars worth of computer equipment in a in a building.

02:01:12,500	I’m gonna take that out before I leave Depending on the age, but That’s, that’s a property that. I would take When I’m leaving, if you can. If there’s not a court order against it if there’s if you’re not so bankrupt that. Again, I’m going on what ifs.

02:01:36,630	What’s absolutely And I, and I may be proven wrong and when we get to the commission, they put it back in. I, I just, I, I, I want to get this ordinance. For Mitch’s group to have. Uh, Comm, rifle. I, I, I would be vehemently opposed to the half mile. We worked really hard to get that extended to the mile.

02:01:55,630	I’d like to see it stay at the mile. Or I can’t support it. Any more comments? Here you go. Oh, thank you, Mr. Chair. I, I think the half mile is reasonable. The city, um, draft ordinance with 4/10 of a mile, 0.5 mile, that’s what they have down in Eel. Um, I don’t.

02:02:19,630	in our decibel ratings that Are pretty restrictive, I think, I, I think we’re gonna be OK with a half a mile. Mr. Chair, and I would agree that decibel leaving those decibels where they’re at as they’re written, whether the generators are running, whether it’s the operation of the facility, that’s what protects our residents the most, and that’s, that’s my, that’s why I’ve

02:02:40,000	moved it back to a half. I, I, I’m not really sure with everything you mentioned. Did you mention the stand standby generator because Capital Electric said they may have to run them at startup. Um, I didn’t include that in my motion because of the decibel levels.

02:02:57,800	So if they’re running and only at 45 at night. OK. Um, that’s fine with me, yeah. But again, Mitch also mentioned the fact that in that application process, If they came in and said we need a year of running generators to get us operational until Capitol Electric shows up.

02:03:16,470	Then in the special use permit, we can modify that plan. Yeah, but I, I think the way it’s, Stated is it’s generally use is limited to backup and emergency use only. is the way it is, um.

02:03:36,000	But in the special use permit, if they came in here and said we need a, we need a special use for a year of the generators. Then when they’re here in front of us, we can approve or deny that part of it. We could do that with the mile too. We certainly could.

02:03:51,900	Uh, any other comments? I, I have one about the uh noise level if, if, if we’re going to reduce that to 0.5 mile, I think we need to really look at the 45 decibels for those existing properties along along along the property, uh, because, uh, as I told you before, the background level in North Dakota is right around 35 decibels. Especially in rural areas. Yeah.

02:04:14,100	And, and these, these, these uh. Facilities are located in rural areas. Mr Conley. Listen to enough of these meetings and things, I would say keep it at the mile, if the county at. I mean, you’re in on that, if you want to change it at that level, cause it’s the final say, go with that, um.

02:04:39,000	It’s wouldn’t be the first time that a, a county or a city commission overturned what the planning and zoning did. We just had one on Tuesday, so and that, um, but on that item 18. Just because of the highlight and. People reaching out in the private discussions, because of that. MDU charge being on there.

02:05:03,370	If you could just add Like, uh, a like generator use review. And then you can keep 5 in the ordinance, so both of them, both of them have a presence, but because that’s a hot button topic that is in the papers, that is out there, I think it’s important that we say we’re going to elevate that conversation every

02:05:27,200	time it comes up as you vet the process. Because that’s a legitimate charge, um, every citizen in the state is looking at a 20+ dollars charge. For an energy bill that They’re not using Right. off.

02:05:50,200	Yeah, I, there’s no way I can support that without including the financial security, absolutely not. Um, that is. To me, any reputable company that’s looking at coming in sees that as a cost of business, period. It’s, it’s to, to not include something like that, I, you’re, you’re gonna be almost inviting people to use this area as a testing ground.

02:06:10,470	And yeah, we started up, doesn’t work, whatever, we just lose 40 Xboxes and walk away from it, right? I don’t think so. That’s, I really struggle with not including financial security on it, and as M Mitch stated.

02:06:29,500	Everybody else is requiring it, so if, if, if we’ve got other counties that are requiring financial security and we’re not, that’s gonna further bolster, we’re gonna be the proving ground or the test subject or whatever and I, I have no interest in subjecting people of Burleigh County to being test subjects for potential. Dump dumping grounds for electric facilities or whatever.

02:06:53,500	I think Comm brings up a good point because for instance, we’re going to have what, 460,000 gallons of diesel fuel on site. Um, hazardous hazardous material, uh, included in those the computer systems they’re going to have a A very hazardous materials. They’re going to have to be dealt with by somebody.

02:07:13,370	So, uh, I would agree with that too if the county, the county Commission wants to take that off. Great But I’m, I’m not. I agree, I agree. Mr. Risch, I just can’t imagine somebody would invest this kind of money in abandon it. I mean, I, I can see you can go through bankruptcy, but they’re gonna invest this kind of money and just abandon it.

02:07:32,170	Go to the oil fields. Yeah. Yeah. Um-hum right. Travel out West. I’m, I’m telling you. Um-hum. There’s, there’s, there’s millions of dollars of equipment sitting in fields rotting away. I mean, millions. Yes, yes. Can I, I will amend my motion.

02:07:53,500	we will leave Kate in, and I appreciate um Comm Streifel’s comment that. If we leave it at 1 mile, but we can move it to a half at the special use permit. I’m OK with that too. So, I would amend to a mile, and I would amend to leave KM. Are you in agreement with that? Comm. I’ll second it then.

02:08:19,000	OK, uh, any further discussion? Any further discussion? Carry on, Marla, would you repeat the motion and, and we will be referring this to the county Commission yeah. OK. Can you We’ll help you. OK, the motion is, To approve the amendment to Article 8 data centers. Um, with the following. Reynolds strikeouts, no.

02:08:50,100	With what would you want to call it? Modification. OK, modifications. OK, Amen. Article 8 data centers with modifications of Striking all the verbiage in one A, which is, um, applicant. want to I want to make sure I get the right one. 1 A applicant name and contact information applicant must also identify on the application.

02:09:20,370	I don’t think Deoccupant or Lee of the property? No, just the last, just the last part. The, uh, the occupant or lease of the property. That’s the only part and the operator of the data. Yeah. Yeah. OK. I got that. And that would be the same on 6. On number 6. Yeah. OK.

02:09:39,270	Cause they’re not gonna remove that all the way, right? Yeah, right. Section 3, item 6. OK. It also says it on. Under decommissioning plan. Oh, it says the occupant or lessee of the property. Yeah. OK. OK. But Yeah, but But I don’t think that’s, I think the decommissioning plan.

02:10:20,630	It is the responsibility of the original applicant. Or if different, the owner of record of the property, the occupant or lessee. I think that needs to stay there because they are responsible for the decommissioning. I just don’t want that information on the applicant. When they’re coming to talk to Mitch.

02:10:39,900	Are you going to hold him responsible if they’re not on the paperwork. Well, Hm This is the decommissioning plan, not the application. Right, right, so you can leave them on the decommissioning plan but not pull up, they will be listed. It’s just not on the original application coming to the county. OK. OK. OK.

02:11:02,370	So now it’s back to, um, we’re basically striking. Half of the verbiage and one A. To have it say. Applicant’s name and contact information. And operator of the data center. You want that off there? Yep. OK. So we just want application Applicant name.

02:11:38,170	All right And item 3, I’ve got item 3, strike number 6, but we’re taking that off. In the design standards. Again, we’re just removing. The lea. The occupant or lessee of the property. Right. And the operator of the data center, that’s what we’re removing from 6. OK. And That would be all my changes because I agreed with Strefel on leaving it at a mile.

02:12:02,830	And I agreed with Zuroff on taking out the Leaving. Leaving in the decommissioned. OK, can you, so, we really only have those, um, To change it I modified it you it. OK. All right, I’m gonna have to watch this 12 times.

02:12:35,730	But OK, so I’ve got it now we’re approving, um, approval of the Amendment to Article E data centers and we’re striking, uh, the verbiage after. The owner. Operator, so applicant name and contact information that can stay on item A. We’re striking applicant must also identify on the application. The occupant or the leaseeee of the property and the operator of the data center, that’s going to be struck. OK.

02:13:06,800	The decommissioning plan is staying. So That was the only change that it looks. 6. Right. Yep, that’s the only change you, you’re making. Is that one then because Um, you took out, you. Yes. You’re keeping item K. Yeah. Which was eliminated that first time, and, um, you’re keeping in the decommissioning plan.

02:13:35,500	So, they were good. And that’s it. Anything else? OK. Um, I guess vote means you approve of the motion, a no vote means you do not, and the motion is to make the changes. Um And forward it to the County Commission. Yep. With the due pass with the changes. Yeah. OK. Comm Jarratt. Yes. Comm Connelly. Yes.

02:14:16,730	Comm Risch? No. Comm Streifel. Yes. Comm Zuroff? Yes. Comm Munson. Yes. And Vice Chair Patrick. Yes. Kate, passed each one. Mitch, can I get a couple? Our 2 hours next week to talk about the financial security thing prior to going to commission. Sure. OK, thank you. Other business Um. Yes.

02:14:56,630	We have, uh Item 5-1 this moratorium. Mr. Chair, this is a more term to consider a moratorium for best facilities. Battery energy storage system. Uh, the planning department has taken notice of potential for Burleigh County to be identified as a preferred location and develop a battery energy storage systems and finds it necessary to develop a zoning ordinance

02:15:22,370	amendment to establish a framework, excuse me, for these best facilities. Um, there is a copy of the draft or draft resolution. The um It’s fairly simple, straightforward. Um, there is no length of time on the moratorium, but I’m working on this draft, um, this is for a large, large facilities.

02:15:48,470	Again, uh, best system can be challenging to zoning and development in Burleigh County. The, uh, the energy storage land uses, uh, must meet the level of risk and degree of regulation needed to protect our community’s health, safety, and general welfare.

02:16:07,470	The moratorium is needed because Bess are a new type of land use, we’re not, we have never seen one in Burleigh County. And most of North Dakota. As well The ordinance this orders will take time. The ears will not affect ba battery energy storage systems that are behind this, behind the meter.

02:16:28,000	In other words, if you have battery systems for your solar system on your roof, that’s not part of this. Um, the ordinances for utilities utility scale facilities utility scale facilities are defined in the century Court is designed for operation as a grid resource and capable of 5 megawatts or more of rated power capacity.

02:16:52,730	This is Anything below 5 megawatts is not affected by this. The, uh Um These battery systems because the lit lithium batteries are coming down in price. They’re, they’re, there’s going to be more, I believe more investment in these type of systems.

02:17:16,100	They’re tied to solar farms, as you remember last month we approved the solar farm ordinance, and it was just approved this week at At the county commission. So you’re going to see best facilities next to this. And, uh, you know, They contain High amount of batteries, um. The lithium batteries, lithium nickel, lithium nickel manganese, all different kinds of batteries. They are um. prone to uh thermal runaway.

02:17:45,100	Um, the, the safety risks are predominant in these lithium batteries and um The thermal runaway can cause an explosion or fire. I can use the, the only best facility I know of in North Dakota that the one in Flickertail, it’s, uh, in Dickey County. That’s that facility is capable of 150 megawatts. The, the best facility alone.

02:18:09,900	So there’s enough batteries in that in that facility to create 150 megawatts. Large amounts, so they’re they’re basically 300, this is on their side, there’s 3008, uh 318 containers, Con Ax boxes. There are 20 ft in length, 20 ft apart, and 9 ft in height.

02:18:32,270	They Con Xbox is basically they retrofitted to put these batteries in. It’s 318 of them. So these are what we’re looking at as the best facility. Um The ordinance I, I’ve started working on a draft that should provide for safety and first responder standards, financial uh sureties for the decommissioning plans, um, setbacks slot size, density as an industrial standard, noise, visual impacts, that sort of

02:18:58,800	thing. You’ll remember that. Our solar farms are OK in ag. So This is almost an industrial standard for agricultural properties. So we definitely need a special use permit for this.

02:19:24,370	Um The only standard that I would refer to for building these would be the NFPA 855, that’s the National Fire Code protection fire code. Cause, uh, I mean, if you’re talking Con Xboxes. Building codes don’t affect them unless you change, you know, these relocatable buildings they call them unless you change or alter the engineering of these things, you’re really not looking at anything. And so it’s. If we got solar fires coming, you’re gonna see best facilities too.

02:19:49,730	Um situation. Mr. Chair Mitch, hey, I think, I think you explained it well, but when I read the, um, Resolution it says a moratorium on the development of all battery energy storage systems.

02:20:14,000	It doesn’t refer to the large ones, but his best B E S S, is that a, is there? Is that a definition is that, that explains only large ones when you refer to Bess? No. No, the, I should battery energy storage system, yeah, yeah, I could explain in there that these are utility scale best which makes I should add that in there, yeah, OK.

02:20:34,630	Because we at our last meeting on solar, there was a businessman here in town that develops these solars and he’s got batteries and seems like he’s doing a pretty good job for some of these operations of Bismarck, and I don’t wanna put them out of business. A Guy like that Right, but you’re not talking about putting a Guy like that out of business.

02:20:50,730	This is gonna be like Mitch said, utility scale, so you’re talking about somebody like Capital Electric or MDU coming in and saying, well, you know, to level off our risk on the grid and all this other stuff, you know, you’re going to disagree.

02:21:06,730	We’re going to bake a bunch of energy so we can sell it to Texas storage systems is what, what the resolution currently. So I, I think having that verbiage in there. Yeah, I’ll define it as utility scale best facility. Over 5 megawatts or whatever. We shall see. Move to approve with the modifications mentioned. You have motion in a second.

02:21:32,370	Any further discussion? There ain’t none, Marla. OK. And of course forward this to the county commission. Yeah. OK. I just, I have a question. Does this, um, moratorium need a a public hearing, or can they go directly to the county Commission. Or is it I go right to the county.

02:22:04,370	Right to the county? No. OK. So the motion is to approve the moratorium on Be E S S. Facilities. And with, with that one change. With the one change. Which is to describe it, right? Yeah. Describe it. OK. Alright, uh, the motion is to approve the moratorium for B E S S.

02:22:44,830	Systems, facilities with the change to spell out what BESS. Stands for. Uh, no. The size. The size utility side. Utility size. Utility. Utilize. Yeah. OK. All right. So the yes vote means you prove no vote means you do not. OK, um, Comm Connelly. Yes. Comm Jarratt. Yes. Comm Munnen.

02:23:20,100	And, Vice chair. Yes. Approved. Unanimous. Motion to Adjourn.