00:00:07,800	We have a chaplain, please. Wednesday. Shall we pray Dear heavenly Father, we come to you this afternoon seeking your direction. We acknowledge that we desire to have you direct our ways. We do know that we cannot always rely solely on ourselves for effective results. for we’re only human and often make mistakes.

00:00:50,530	But it is you who knows all things, so, Father, please guide us and have your divine will in this meeting. We do admit at times we plan our course, but we pray that you will establish your steps. Let us make decisions based upon what we know, but let us act based upon your wisdom.

00:01:12,900	Please guide us, Lord for we place our hearts and our minds in your hands so that we may be directed by you. We pray these things in the name of your Son Jesus Christ. Amen I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. and to the Republic for which it stands.

00:01:47,270	One nation under God indivisibly justice for all. Thank you, thank you, sir. You call in November 17th meeting the Burleigh County Commission to order. First item of business is roll call of members. Comm Woodcock, Comm Munsen, here, Comm Bakken, Comm Schwab, Chair Bittner here. Next is the approval of the agenda. Move to approve.

00:02:19,170	Second, OK, Motion 2nd to approve the agenda. Any further discussion, call the roll. Comm Munsen. Yes. Comm Bakken? Yes. Comm Schwab. Yo, Comm Woodcoxox. Chair Bitner. Yes, motion carries. Next consideration of November 3, 2025, meeting minutes and the bills. Uh uh, Mr. Chair, I had an opportunity to look at the bills this afternoon and, uh, they were looked all good to me.

00:02:44,270	Uh, I’d read the minutes and I would move, we approved both. Second, motion 2, to approve the minutes and the bills. Any further discussion, call the rule. Comm Bakken. Yes. Comm Schwab. Yep. Comm Woodcoox. Yes, Comm Munsen. Yes. Chair Bittner. Yes, motion carries.

00:03:04,630	Next is public comments for, uh, discussion of items that are not related to the agenda. Um, it’s restricted to Burle County residents, landowners, time limits may apply, but does anybody have any public comment at this time? Does anybody wish to offer any public comment at this time? Third and final. Anybody wish to provide public comment at this time. I’ll close a public comment period.

00:03:26,970	and Commissioners, we have before us the consent agenda. There’s abateman special event permits, centering contract, Emmons County Joint Powers Agreement. Emergency operations plan resolution multi-hazard mitigation plan resolution. You wish to pull anything off for discussion? Yes OK, Comm Bakken.

00:03:49,430	item D, I would just like to know if there were any changes in the previous one prior to, um, that, uh being moved forward OK. Mary, any changes? You see a no on the changes. No changes. Perfect. I just wanted it on the record if there were. So, uh, with that, I would approved to move to approve the full consent agenda. Second, motion is second to approve the consent.

00:04:10,870	Any further discussion, call the rule. Comm Schwab. Yes, Comm Woodcock, Comm Munsen. Yes, Comm Bakken. Yes. Chair Bitner. Yes, motion carries. County engineer Hall Maintenance certification. Welcome, Marcus. Good evening, Commissioners. I have one item on the agenda.

00:04:35,900	Every year, the Burleigh County Highway Department reviews all federal aid highways and the projects we’ve done in the past year and uh we we’re required to certify that they’re being maintained in accordance with the North Dakota Transportation, uh, construction and maintenance agreements that we have with them. Under the current federal and state rules, uh, the county must approve a certification and direct the proper county officials to sign that certification. Uh, the certification is in the packet.

00:04:56,730	I’d be happy to answer any questions you may have. There is a proposed resolution. I’d recommend approval. Commissioners. Second. Yeah, motion second to approve any further discussion? Call the rule. Comm Woodcock, yes, Comm Munsen. Yes. Comm Bakken. Yes. Comm Schwab. Yes. Chair Bitner. Yes, motion carries. Thank you. Is there something, uh available to sign.

00:05:21,370	Uh, he’s good. OK. Thank you. Ky HR Director Ber follow up on 2027 auditors salary analysis, um, veteran service officer retirement finance director position, and treasurer position. Welcome, Pam.

00:05:45,900	Thanks, Chair Bitner, Commissioners, um, you, I was asked to do research on the county auditors for North Dakota, so I did go to the North Dakota Association of Counties, and they did give me a list of the tenure for the county auditors, most of them, and then we gathered other information, um, with their salaryary survey and I did include that I broke it up into regions because that is how the occupational handbook, um, breaks up salaries in regions because the, the Western region

00:06:11,430	consists of the oil producing counties which are in a different boat than the Central or even the eastern where there’s more manufacturing and different businesses and then I also broke out the appointed versus elected in each of those regions. The appointed, of course, are being paid more, but they are also required to have education and experience.

00:06:31,170	uh, rather than being elected. So what I came up to is with the central, the average annual salary for uh. is 74,79395 and that 10 year average was 11 years.

00:06:59,100	Now we have a lot of rural counties in the central region and those rural counties have tenure in their auditors, but their auditors don’t get paid a lot just because they are rules, so we and that was a combination of or cum of elected and appointed? Nope, just elected. Those are just, OK. Um. I took the appointed out because it, it wouldn’t be fair to average them in. Thank you.

00:07:13,870	Um, so it’s 74 if you took our auditor salary out of there, it would bring it to 72,76928. So what, what I’m recommending is the minimum salary is set at that 28,500. That’s per century code. We know what the average salary is with an average tenure.

00:07:40,100	So you would have around 72,000, that would be around the market with some experience or even education. And then the, the maximum would be on that top end would be like the 10283, so that would fall into like a pay grade 8, pays step 1, Paep 10, past step 20.

00:08:03,000	Um, if we want to put him in there, I would suggest not putting the elected auditor into the pay grade and step structure, having them come on and negotiate based on their experience and education that they bring after they’ve been elected. and then negotiate based on that. but that is what I was able to gather.

00:08:27,530	personally look like posting that position as an elected official because everybody knows what elected officials make. It’s public record. So how do you post that? So is it a pay range of? Yes. OK, yes. Mr.

00:08:52,100	Chair, Comm Munsen, so would we then list the qualifications if this then this, or is it truly whoever’s gonna run for this position has to know, OK, so I have a 4-year degree in business management. What’s my ballpark? What’s my ballpark with that education, you know, I would think we would need to set up some kind of structure. that each individual then would have an idea. of what that negotiated rate would be between A and B, not 28 and 102.

00:09:17,700	Well, and how we would do it in the pay grades is anywhere from a step 1 to a step 5. is where we usually start people step 5 if they have experience in education. Step one, if they don’t, so you could treat it like that.

00:09:36,000	So if you have the education and how many years of experience would be the equivalent for an appointed person. You would put him at that salary step. But I think we would need to publish that. Yeah, I think that makes sense. I think it’s pretty well laid it out here really. Mr. Chair. Comm Luco, When we post this, I think that 26,000 is a scare position. Who’s going to apply for a job but $26,000.

00:09:58,870	That’s a professional, a CPA we refer, uh, that I think that 25 or 26 should be at least 50, plus negotiating on the rest of the contract. We’re not going to get anybody to apply. That’s, that’s, uh that we need at 26,000 What position are you electing? Because you have the auditor and the treasurer separated now.

00:10:18,730	We don’t need a CPA for the auditor. Not for the auditor. All right. And we would, we would like to if we, if we applied that had a CPA that would certainly be a. Well, if they elected, if they were elected with the CPA, that would be nice. Yeah.

00:10:32,600	Um I think that would be reflected in the amount that we would be willing to. Pay. OK, that’s kind of the whole goal is the more qualifications they would come on board with, the higher they would be in the pay scale. It’s the way business runs everywhere. Mhm So that would be my recommendation.

00:10:54,900	We can put it together in steps if we want, even though we can keep it outside of the pay grade and payst step structure for the employees. I think she should have the OK to go ahead and set up those, um, that pastro steps or those. Levels, not steps because we’re not talking steps right.

00:11:14,630	Do you want us to come up with a baseline at the table or for what that would be and then figure out the steps from there, or do you want me to use the minimum, the North Dakota Century code minimum of 28,500 and up. you’d have to, that’s what, that’s what I refer to when I said 50.

00:11:40,730	Yeah, I think that’s the 28’s low, but it’s consistent with state law. Yeah, but not consistent with what that position looks like in our region for an elected position, but my question is, is if we started with that, those steps would be large.

00:12:05,900	to get up to what the average is, correct? Those qualifications with those steps attached to that would be sizable. Yeah, you would have like 2 steps. It’d be more than like a 2%. There’d be percentages beyond what we would have in our pay grade and step structure.

00:12:26,230	so you’re the professional in this space, uh, would we be better off having a little bit higher base in the smaller steps to meet those criteria for the to get up to that higher level because the endgame is up here, the last level, so would we be better off having a higher base and smaller steps or, well, I don’t want to call them steps because that kind of convolutes it a little bit.

00:12:46,630	Smaller benchmarks to to hit those what equates to a performance bonus with it commensurate experience or education associated with it would be better off being a little bit higher and having those smaller, or what is your opinion from an HR perspective What would be dependent upon the duties of the auditor as it is. are not very intricate.

00:13:13,370	The election is the, the biggest part of that as the auditor. So we took away the finan financial part of it brought that on to the treasurer and that’s gonna, that’s an appointed position. So that’s separate.

00:13:32,100	So what is the range? I mean, we have the Kidder County Auditor that’s making $24,000 a year and we have one of the other auditors that’s already up to 47, 65, we have one Morin’s up to 116, 646, but we know that that auditor’s been in place for a long time, right, and they actually utilize the step system with their and we’re kind of going around that a

00:13:55,430	little bit because we don’t want to put this as part of the steps, though, correct? Well, you can put it in the steps, but where do we put it? Because it can’t, even though this position supervises other positions.

00:14:17,230	it’s not a, is it a full-time position? Is it who’s, who are they supervising lower level, upper level? We’re still trying to decide what this position is gonna look like. Thanks, Pam. So I can come back with possible pays steps for the position and and look at it. Yeah, Mr. Chair, I’d like to see what those what those level of increased levels would be a two-year degree, a four-year degree. The benchmarks.

00:14:45,700	The benchmarks, you know, the 5 years experience, 10 years experience. I’d like to see those benchmarks so that we could, cause I’m, I’m in the same boat, you know 28.

00:15:11,370	5 is what’s law, what’s minimum, but do we start at 40 with this increases or 28 with this increase, to get to what we feel it should be and, you know, you talked about the um, well, it’s the base plus Plus education. They already then it goes up from there. Correct, correct.

00:15:27,800	But what’s the value of each one of those benchmarks is kind of what I’m getting at here is where do we need to, because that’ll give us a better indication of where to start on the floor. Flo, and, and like Pam indicated, you know, the election is the big one. You know, you bring an audit or in that has zero experience in elections, we can’t offer them the same pay as someone that comes in with. that that election experience.

00:15:48,530	Do you think you can have that by the next meeting? I can. OK. We’ll put that on the agenda for the next Burleigh County Commission, regular Burleigh County Commission meeting.

00:16:16,370	And the second item that I have is um our Veteran service officer Mark Landis is retiring effective November 21st, which is this Friday, um, we did have his announcement in the newsletter, and they did such a great job that I just included that announcement in the packet, um, so that we will have an open house for Mark and it will be on the first floor conference room in this building, and it will start at 2 I believe. We are having cake. and refreshments, um.

00:16:34,970	remarks long years of service. I, I think he deserves that. Um, I don’t know Did you wanna speak at all, Mark I. OK. That, that refreshment you’re referring to now, Veterans, they don’t drink sodas, do they Veterans will drink what’s put in front of them. Mr. Chair, Comm, uh, after all these years, it still doesn’t seem real.

00:17:07,530	Um. I will say though that, uh, being able to help our veterans to attain the benefits that they’ve earned. has been the privilege of a lifetime. And I just I can’t add to that. But thank you for this opportunity for all these years. Thanks for your your service, Mark. I’m say, Mark, thank you for the service.

00:17:33,700	and I especially thank you for the help you gave me. OK, the next part of that is we did do the interview process and we do, we have chosen a new veteran service officer.

00:17:55,630	It was actually our deputy Veteran service officer Chris Berglund, uh, so the next thing I need you to do tonight is to formally appoint him. I would move to formally appoint K Chris Berghlin as our new V. Second. motion the second to approve Kri. He’s the BSO. Any further discussion? Call the rule. Comm Munsen. Yes, Comm Bakken. Yes, Comm Schwab, Yes. Comm Woodcoxx, yes, Chair Bitner. Yes, motion carries. OK. Congratulations, Chris. Chris. OK.

00:18:21,170	And then the third item I have is um the resignation of finance director, interim treasurer. Lee Jacobs and with that we have the finance director opening, um, we also haven’t posted the treasurer position and we had the deputy treasurer position that is open as well although we were trying to

00:18:44,370	decide whether we wanted the treasurer or the deputy treasurer? Do we need an accountant, um. not quite sure what we need to do, um, I would recommend at this point posting them both. because we’re getting down to a skeleton crew in the treasury Department and finance. I’m not sure how you want to proceed from there.

00:19:06,530	I don’t know if they need some temporary help or if you need a consultant coming in. I don’t. I’ve talked to a couple of commissioners and that’s some of the ideas that I was given. I, I guess it’s not my place to say it’s up to the commission and the portfolio holders.

00:19:22,100	What, how do they want to proceed? Yeah, I think I can jump in there, Pim. Um, one of the concerns we have with Lee leaving is that we’re having a gap at the top in the office. And what Comm Bakke and I have talked about.

00:19:41,900	is an individual that can basically step in based on his many years of experience in, in assumer management role in general. Not necessarily called the treasure, not necessarily called a fightance director, but for a short for now we need a, we need a manager in that office.

00:20:02,630	And we do have a person that we have discussed that with, and he’s willing. The question is whether we’d want him as a consultant or as a temporary or as a a longer term We’ve made really good strides with, um, the team in the in the uh finance department and the finance office, and we want to keep that going.

00:20:28,800	And I think that you know, I think that he, a specific manager at this point, um to both have time to meet with Lee and get a handle on what’s left to do for the course of the year. I don’t think we have time to wait around, so I, I do believe we need to make some action right now. Comm Bachman.

00:20:42,470	Well, and I think the path on this is, is we go ahead and hire a temp. um with the qualifications needed for that position. Um, as the finance director role, um, you know, if it’s an individual that continues into that position that is a discussion for a later date, but right now we need to act because it’d be

00:21:05,530	nice to have somebody in there interfacing with Lee before he’s officially done, um, just so that we’re all on the same page with the books moving forward, and that is going to uh have an opportunity to, to see what we got for staff, uh, below Lee, so I think, uh, it’s a win win if we go that

00:21:27,000	potential route that we’re looking at. Mr. Chair, Mr. Munsen, my question would be for Pam then is the legalities of if we hire a temp, we don’t need to go through the the application process and interviews and all of those If we hire an intern, I don’t know if the term makes a difference if we, what our

00:21:48,370	process is, if it’s a full-time employee, we, we know what that process is, so legally, are we OK hiring that temp or that intern intern or consultant. I would go temper consultant. In term is the same as as a full time. They still have to go through the, the interview process.

00:22:10,270	We have to go through the job posting, the background process. everything I think no matter what we do, we should also be listing these positions now. I was going to get them, get them started, get them published, get them, you know, people applying and doing whatever, so that we don’t lose any, any traction that we’ve already gained, you know.

00:22:31,530	I just have a comment on the finance director in the treasurer positions on the job descriptions I have them both reporting to the commission because that was the last ones that you guys had approved, um Lee Jacobs, finance director Jacobs, had sent uh correction with the org chart that you had approved, I think it was in the

00:22:54,000	October 20th meeting, so it, it’s your decision on how you want that to go. Do we want them to report back to the board and wait or do we want to use this, the structure that you guys approved on October 20th. I, I think I’ll answer that one too.

00:23:11,070	I think that let’s see, for, for the short term, we need the, the, basically all of those positions reporting to the board. I don’t believe that we need to be having any, any discussions about, you know, who’s in charge, because we, we need to get a you know. keep it on the tracks that we’re on. Continuity. Yeah.

00:23:31,730	Yeah. And I, and I really can hardly stress enough the good work that has been going on in that department. and I’d like to keep it that way. So a couple of things that I think the emotion should contain would be the uh the fact that the physician would report to the board.

00:23:53,270	It would be a uh emperors Tempire, yeah. Tempire. And then post those positions as quickly as possible. That would be my motion is there a second Is there a second I will second that for discussion. Yeah. So, you’re talking about posting it internally or, uh, well, we had already decided to, to do that internal an external external. Both. Yep.

00:24:27,470	You know, the wider. But the, the wider the net, the. But P Pam, how long would it take time we post it and hire somebody and is that like 30 days or 60 days. The director positions we usually post for a month. So 30 day post and then period and the, the background check.

00:24:46,170	So it, it would be willing to January, possibly February, depending on if we could find somebody the first round. Can we afford to be without that position for three months. No, that’s why we’re talking this temporary interim, or in, uh, temporary position.

00:25:01,630	So, if we have an idea who that should be, why don’t we, uh, attack it that way and do it. We are. That’s, that was the motion. Re repeat your motion. I must have misunderstood it. Repeat my motion What I, what I suggest that’s what I’m concerned about.

00:25:24,730	It was a suggestion that uh hire the we hired the temp and Reports back to the board and then we post these positions right away. So now I’m now on the same. Yeah. So, uh, the, the big piece of this is getting somebody in that office to interface with Lee as much time as we can afford them, and then.

00:25:40,730	you know, the positions will be posted, but like Pam has said in the past, you know, trying to hire somebody at the end of the year is difficult at best. um, especially if somebody’s waiting on some bonuses or things towards the end of the year. They’re not going to walk away from those.

00:25:56,730	Um, and if this winds up going into after the first of the year, we’re gonna get a better talent pool, but right now we need to, to backfill that position. Mr. Chair, question. So they tempt or the the temporary employee that you’ve talked to, they’re good with the 34 month If need be, if need be, and they are willing, he, he’s retired.

00:26:16,900	and he is willing to go longer. OK. Um, he’s applying for the job then? Yes. OK. Good. Um, he, he’s retired though he has no interest in, in doing this for perpetuity or whatever, you know him. and you know him. So we’re not, we’re not talking about the knee. Yeah.

00:26:36,170	I think I know what you’re, but you know him. I, yeah. You know him. And you have been with him? Yes. I did too, so. OK. Yeah, we’ve had uh, uh, a number, I think, uh going back over, over a year now, huh? Yeah.

00:26:54,970	We’ve had a number of conversations and knowing that this was coming on and what was likely to happen, and so he’s, he has no, um uh he’s not coming into it blind. Sure, good.

00:27:13,630	And they have a municipal background as well in the finance side of things, so that’s well, he was the bank president and he was the Guy that set up Burleigh County Sweep account and our investments and all that originally. So it’s, he’s well versed in our financial interests. And we’ll, we’ll talk about the name, but at this point until we vote on this right, it’s gonna Comm any other discussion. all the world. Comm Bakken, Comm Schwab, Yes. Comm Woodcock. Yes. Comm Munsen.

00:27:38,630	Yes. Chair Bitner. Yes, motion carries. Thank you, Commissioners. Um we give the name or we? No, I think we’re, we’re Wait? Yeah, until things are. Finalized. Yeah, yep, yep. He’s a good Guy. We’re we’re good. OK. Um, anything else we need to do on that? No. OK. Thank you. Thank you, Pam.

00:28:04,170	County Sheriff Leeben, variance to Burleigh County policy request. Welcome, K Kyly Oh, it’s not Kelly From a distance, you know, I got to get my eyes locked. Bare barely passed for a driver’s license renewal here. He’s got more hair. We go to the same barber, huh? No, good evening, Chair Bittner and Commissioners.

00:28:25,000	Um, we’re seeking approval for a variance on a starting salary for a potential new, uh, deputy sheriff hire. This isn’t anything new. We’ve done this before, especially when we have, uh, individuals coming to us with extensive training background, uh, and experience, and in this case,

00:28:42,270	we have, uh, one we’d like to pick up that is, uh, coming to us with, uh, approximately 10 years of law enforcement experience 9 years of military experience specializing in law enforcement They’ve got, uh, in excess of 1200 hours of training hours in law enforcement.

00:29:03,900	They currently serve as a sergeant in their present position and they are also a SWAT operator at their current position as well, so, um yeah, we’re seeking to just, uh, get a variance on that and enter negotiations and hopefully get them hired. Moved to approve. Set. Motion to 2nd to approve any further discussion. Call the rule. Comm Schwab. Yes. Comm Woodcock.

00:29:23,230	Yes. Comm Munsen. Yes, Comm Bakken. Yes, Chair Bitner. Yes, motion carries. Thank you all very much. Chrisian Munsen, Bismarck Burleig Public Public Health, uh, discussion, Mr. Chair, at this time, I’m requesting that the public health, um, portfolio will be reassigned to another Comm.

00:29:47,170	um, and that would be up to your discretion Yeah, um, bear with me, um, we normally, um, uh shift, um, portfolios as needed at the first meeting in January. Do you think you can, I can handle it till then. I just want it to be a public acknowledge that you did talk to me about that.

00:30:05,370	There’s no, no problem with that, um, and I, and I think other commissioners could possibly be interested in that, and I think that that’s fine. Um, I do recognize that, but I think since we’re going to do it in another little over a month that we’re, I’m good. In good shape. OK. OK. Thank you. Um, Commission continued items.

00:30:26,800	We have the Garrison diversion letter discussion, and under that item, uh, we have a request from a Mr. Ken Royce to speak. I believe he’s joining us on Zoom um I think the letter is in your packet and that speaks for itself. Um. Ken, are you there Chair Bitner, I am here.

00:30:59,330	Can you hear me OK? I can hear you just fine, thank you. Well, I’ll be happy to make some comments. You’ve got my letter in the packet, I’m guessing. Uh, let me make a few comments about my letter.

00:31:13,470	I think if you had a chance to read the letter, you’ll note that I said I served on the garrison board on behalf of Berkeley County for. 16 years, and it was I thought it was a good 16 years. I was not the first director from Bertie County. I was the 3rd director. uh, since 1988, but I’ve put in my 16 years, and now Mr. Cash and Larry Casham.

00:31:31,370	took my spot in about 217, I believe it was. But I will tell you from my personal experience, um I think Garrison of diversion has been a great investment. I, I’m not saying a good investment, I say a great investment for Bertie County and all the counties of North Dakota.

00:31:49,430	Um, I will tell you that we have if you go to the Department of Water Resources and you look at their hallway, they have a Hall of Fame for water leadership out of North Dakota. and most of all the, the people in the Hall of Fame come from Bertie County.

00:32:08,170	a disproportionate number not because Bertie County has always been, has always been a leader. in water policy and funding programs for our state. I’m talking about guys. I think you would know some of these people with Verne Fay and. Daveri and attic and Dale Frank and Carry Backstrand and Milt Lindwigig and Governor Guy and Dorgan and Conrad and Hoban.

00:32:25,870	These are the people who, who moved the world in water in our state of North Dakota, and they come from Bertie County and Bismarck and Bertie County itself can be proud of the fact that they have always Bertie County has always been looked to as a leader in water.

00:32:39,630	management in our state I don’t think you can find a single board, you know, there’s a number of, um, regional boards in North Dakota, North Dakota water users. the state water uh Resource Association of Northco Irrigation Caucus, and North Dakota Water Coalition. You can’t hardly find a single statewide board that doesn’t have.

00:32:58,900	a fingerprint on it from some from Bertie County either now or in the past and people who have served as Chair of those boards and the presidents of those books. So Bertie County’s got a long history. of being a water and leader development and that includes being involved in Garrison the Virgin.

00:33:14,470	Um and Garrison of Vision has had its fingerprints on just about every major funding program in the state of North Dakota. Going back to 1991 when the state developed what’s called the Water Resource Trust Fund. that was pushed and promoted by garrison diversion, among others, but primarily by garrison aversion.

00:33:37,500	Now that program has brought into the state of North Dakota to the water community of North Dakota, Do as measured in the billions, in the billions of dollars. just the last biennium that particular program brought $600 million into water funding programs for the state that wouldn’t be there if it wouldn’t be for groups led by Garrison of Vision.

00:33:57,530	in 1998 we had the tobacco settlement. That was pushed by garrison. North Dakota was one of the few states in the entire country that use their tobacco settlement money for water development projects or a portion of it. Na to go to use $320 million of the tobacco settlement for water development programs. pushed by Garrison diversion.

00:34:18,970	and the 2000, Garrison the Virgin was a primary pusher for the Dakota Water Resource Act. There’s 3 people that pushed that. 2 of them came from Bismarck. Dave Spersonatnick and Mike Dwyer, and one came from Garrison, one Jamieson. Those are the three guys that got with theota Water Resource Act of 2000 pushed through.

00:34:38,170	$632 million to the state of North Dakota that otherwise would have to come from state taxpayers, including Bertie County In 2009, we had the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, the Obama. Program. that brought in $422 million for the state of North Dakota.

00:35:02,230	Uh, not all that was used for water, but the water community again led by Garrison the Virgin, put over $100 million of those funds into water development projects. Again, these are funds from the state from federal governments that otherwise it wouldn’t be for groups like Garrison, primarily garrison, I would say.

00:35:21,630	We wouldn’t have had those programs And of course the most recent one was the um COVID At called the CARES Act of 2021. that brought in $1.25 billion to the state of North Dakota. Um, so, and not all that was used for water, but a good portion of it was. Um, and of course, if you follow water in North Dakota, you know. that we’re not done yet and Garrison’s not done yet.

00:35:41,270	Garrison has been a pusher to try to get a new bill introduced in the US Senate, sponsored by Homan Kramer and a congressman from California. to bring in $1.5 billion to the state of North Dakota. These are grand dollars. Uh, it’s called the Senate Bill 4996.

00:35:58,330	Look it up, Google it, 1.5, 1.4, some number in that order of magnitude. that was sidetracked by the state of Missouri. And every time we do something in North Dakota, which tries to use Missouri River water, we get challenged from Missouri, and who defends us, who defends against the state of Missouri, Garrison of Virgin.

00:36:16,470	Garrison the Virgin put a permit in for 20 CFS out of the Missouri River a couple of years ago. If you stand on a bridge between Bismarck and Mandan on any given day, you’ve got 20,000 CFS going under your feet.

00:36:34,100	Gerrison diversion put a permit in to use 2020 out of 20,000 got sued by the state of Missouri. Eh, Missouri, the state of Missouri. does not want North Dakota to use water on that river. Who defends our right to use Missouri River water, including all of North Dakota and all of Bertie County and Bismarck. Its scarce scarce an aversion.

00:36:48,730	They, they foot the bill for that lawsuit and they won that lawsuit. That lawsuit cost Garrison well over $100,000 to prevail on. And so all these things that Garrison does, you can’t put in a dollar for dollar return.

00:37:02,970	I think to very few things in life you can put on a dollar for dollar reinvestment. You buy a car, you don’t get a dollar for dollar if you sell the car, you buy a boat, you buy a camper, you take a vacation. What you’re doing is you’re you’re investing in a quality of life for things that you enjoy a family or a community.

00:37:16,800	Garrison has a, a value that you cannot quantify Uh, you just can’t do it because it brings so much benefits to North Dakota. I don’t know. uh why we as Bertie County would want to give up our seat at the table to be a player to talk about where the dollars go.

00:37:34,370	that get distributed for state projects As we stand, as we sit here today and talk about this uh, Bismarck, Phi of Bismarck had requests in for over $200 million from state funding programs. Now, I suspect Bismarck could go to the legislature or the State Department of Water Resources and make their case.

00:37:54,170	but certainly it helped to have Garrison the Virgin in her corner because Garrison aversion testifies all the all the appropriation hearings, all the policy hearings, when they come to water, they’re testifying on behalf of all of North Dakota, including Bertie County, including Bismarck and it’s not a given that Bismarck’s going to get those $200 million.

00:38:12,370	Uh, it’s a competitive process for every $1 requested through the state, there’s probably a 3 to 1 request. So 2 out of 3 people or 2 out of $3 doesn’t get awarded. And no that’s an, that’s one example. South Central Water, which you have acknowledged in past meetings as having a benefit from garrison aversion.

00:38:29,500	and that we know those are federal de dos, but that shepherd through the process by garrison aversion. South Central Water has a need right now for a $60 million water treatment plant. Now it would be nice when Saul Central goes to the legislature or go to the DWR and said we needed 60 million.

00:38:46,000	They had somebody in their corner supporting them, and that’s what you get when you at Garrison of Verdant. You get that type of support and so you’ve got my letter.

00:39:01,330	It’s in the packet, and I suspect your folks in the audience from Garrison the Virgin who would like to speak to this issue too, but I would urge you to not act in haste of removing yourself from garrison aversion. There’s too many benefits. You’ve established yourself. Burnie County has established itself as a water leader in North Dakota.

00:39:20,170	Every county in the state looks to Burie for direction and leadership I think it’d be a poor, a poor decision to withdraw I think Bertie County needs to maintain your position and garrison of Virg. So thank you for the opportunity, Mr. Chair. You’re welcome. Thanks for your opinion. OK. Is there somebody else in the audience that wishes to speak about this same topic. Once again, is there somebody else in the audience that wishes to speak about this topic.

00:39:39,270	You state your name for the record, please. Good evening, uh, Chair Bittner Tammy Norgarard. I’m an attorney with Vole Law firm. I represent Garrison Diversion, um, Larry Cassians are, uh, Burleigh County Board member and Kip Cobar is the district engineer from Garrison Diversion, and we’re here to answer questions for you.

00:39:57,430	Um, I know there’s been some questions raised, uh, at prior meetings. Some of them worked their way to my desk. Um, one of them, one of the questions that was asked was, well, what if we just decide we’re not going to pay? We don’t want to pay that, um, uh, tax le v y to garrison diversion, and

00:40:10,800	I just want to emphasize to you that Garrison diversion is a taxing authority much like you are and the city and the water boards and we certify our tax levy to the county auditor, just like you do in the city and the water boards.

00:40:30,530	And so this is something that it’s something Garrison does certifies it to the auditor or the auditor passes it through, so it’s not as if the county is paying that tax. It’s a, it’s uh like the tax bills, and I think Larry brought his tax bills He pays $20 a year. One of my friends pays $16 a year to Garrison diversion.

00:40:46,000	It’s a direct tax levy by a separate taxing authority. And I just wanted to emphasize that, um, so that you have that um tax levy in mind clarify that is a tax.

00:41:02,000	It is a tax of the people, absolutely, but that the question I think was, that was raised as well, what if we as Burleigh County say we’re not going to pay that tax. We’re not going to pay that, you know, I think this year $700,000. And my point is that it’s not necessarily getting billed to the county to pay from your budget.

00:41:19,700	It’s a path your auditor is assessing it to the people in Burleigh County absolutely 700,000 is coming from the people in I’m pretty sure the people that are paying $20 a year right now, it had no say in whether or not they wanted to pay that. And my question is, why is not every county part of garrison diversion if this is such a wonderful program for the state.

00:41:37,230	We see some of the numbers that are being brought in from federal dollars, and I see the value of that, but I don’t see that money coming in proportionally to what Burleigh County’s paying in taxes. where the taxpayers are paying. I, I don’t even see it coming close to that. I see this as a great benefit for North Dakota.

00:41:53,870	Then why are not all of North Dakota counties involved with this, or why is this not a state program? That would be the better question for me.

00:42:06,630	I think it was set up for a set certain counties and then other counties could petition to join, which Burleigh County did in 1988. But that was a different mission when it was set up. This isn’t the same mission today. That that’s the other question I’ve got.

00:42:23,370	So again, if this is such a wonderful statewide opportunity? Why is this not a statewide program? Why are not all counties required to be part of this, or why is this just not funneled through the state as part of state taxes. You know, it’s, um, for, I’ll give you the example of McKenzie County and Williams County petitioned to join there on the Missouri River. There’s a lot of opportunity to get water on the Missouri River.

00:42:37,630	They’ve enjoyed being part of Garrison diversion, Garrison Version it’s assisted even with the development of Western area water supply to get water for fracking. I mean, there’s, there’s a lot of benefit to other counties when they see some, um, water opportunities.

00:42:55,230	I think Kipovar told me that there’s 10,000 acres of irrigation that people in benefit to other counties. In each county, each county, um, has different benefits, right? That’s what you’re looking at. What I was just saying we’re not seeing the return and the benefits for Burleigh County. That’s, that’s part of this. we’re not seeing a fraction of what our investment is coming back to the county.

00:43:15,000	And, and this isn’t about, well, we’re paying in this much, so we should get this much. This is the, the, we’re not seeing equity in this. We’re seeing different programs. We’re seeing not the original mission being spread around the state. We’re not seeing it come back to the residents of Burleigh County.

00:43:31,530	And as I was saying, K Kip Kovar was identifying that there’s like he’s asked for interest in um additional irrigation. There’s 10,000 acres in Burleigh County where people have indicated interest, and so that would be interest You can address, yeah, for free.

00:43:52,370	I guess my question would be is why is it not more like Montana where they have those drainage ditches all over the place, and they really seem to be doing the job that they were intended to do. And we just, I mean, 10,000 acres is a drop in the bucket for acreage in Burle County.

00:44:07,800	Yeah, it’s Kipovarr I’m the district engineer for garrison diversion. I can’t speak to the percent or if it pays off or hey, 1 to 13 to 1, I can just describe the benefits. That’s all I can tell you. Um, the McCluskey Canal is used for irrigation. We have approximately right now about 1400 acres out of Burleigh County.

00:44:31,800	We’ve sent postcards in the past saying Burleigh County in a relatively, you know, 10 mile distance of the canal. Are you interested in irrigation? And we roughly have 10,000 acres of interest that we’d sure like to develop in Burleigh County.

00:44:51,430	The benefit on irrigation is the um you get cheap power from the federal government where if you were gonna go out and irrigate by yourself, you’re gonna probably pay 89, 10 cents a kilowatt hour. uh, under the federal program you’re under a 1 cent per kilowatt hour plus there’s no demand charge. And also you get a 75% cost share.

00:45:09,230	I would really like to work with the commissioners possibly in the future of pursuing that with you guys. That would be a great thing to do. And then also we could also possibly put more water down Painterwoods Creek, and there’s another place where we could maybe pick up some irrigation. Mr.

00:45:27,700	Schwab Man, I have a lot of questions for you. You want to hang on with that. I think there’s going to be some more conversation before you get into those details. From 2015. Never mind. Here, near you. Talking to the mic, please. Can you want to hang on with those questions for just a minute.

00:45:40,330	Pardon me? Would you hang on with that for just a minute. OK. And, and, um, I, I wonder if Larry wanted to put in any other comments? Not necessarily. You guys heard from me last fall, I think it was. Who? Well, you, you know the issue here.

00:45:59,430	I mean, 1400 acres that are irrigated in Burleigh County for this $7,000,000 that we’re investing every year, that’s criminal. Correct. Yeah Correct. So, I you know, um, Comm Schwab does have some questions, and I appreciate the three of you being able to, um, consider those questions. Uh, go ahead, Comm.

00:46:22,900	Well, the first question I have is um you know, they throw these big figures around. and I assume that you get involved in negotiations, money wise and stuff and try to bring, you know, the bacon home to. a certain degree. What is what do you guys get out of it Don’t you get a percentage of what’s running through your mill.

00:46:48,000	No. Garrison diversion, there’s a nonprofit It’s a nonprofit. It’s a government agency just like you guys. OK. So, the next question then. uh, the speaker said, what’s his name? R Rison Ken Rice. He said it benefits all counties. Well our counties since 2015 through 2024. has paid 5.5 million plus.

00:47:23,800	to the Garrisony version and we have received 500,000 in change. pretty much you park board, mainly to the park board, but does that sound like a reasonable investment? Would you make an investment personally on something like that. Yeah, I can’t answer that. That’s oh yes you can. I can’t.

00:47:45,700	You don’t want to. I don’t want to. So here, here. here the deal is, where does this money go? It all depends on how you want to evaluate it, right? It’s not up to me, it’s up to the county to evaluate whether you wanted to be. You understand what I’m saying.

00:48:00,100	It’s not. It’s not up to me. I can provide you the benefits, and that’s what I’m trying to provide you. Well, let you know what the benefits are, and I can’t argue with you whether you should be in.

00:48:11,430	Is it a good benefit for the people that call me up and are tired of paying into this and getting nothing. I think it’s a really good benefit for Burleigh County. I do. If you’re asking me personally. you know, and, and, uh we talk about all this big money and stuff like that.

00:48:32,630	And my understanding is you guys went and helped with the Southwest Water Project, right? That is a state project, state of North Dakota project that you guys were involved. I think that was specifically called out in the federal authorization the D you guys involved in it? That was before my time, but I believe Garrison diversion you know, went to Washington DC, testified on the bill.

00:48:58,700	So you were involved Yeah And who paid the person to go down to Washington DC and all this involvement. Burleigh County. and they don’t belong The counties out there don’t belong to Garrison diversion. This is what you call you were, you guys are practicing economic discrimination against the citizens of this county.

00:49:28,170	by taking our money, their money, taxpayer money. and using it out of the district. and we get a couple of swing sets for 500,000 after paying $550 million. It don’t make sense to me 5.

00:49:46,470	5 million, but one thing that I do want to address too, Tammie Norgarard again, um, is there are other benefits and I know Ken Royce talked a lot about just the leadership benefits and helping to develop water policy for the state, but other benefits include like garrison diversion, developed the chain of lakes, and I would bet, and the, the, um, canal system for fishing.

00:50:06,000	um, the recreation, uh, on the lake, and I would guess, and I was asking them actually if you could have a, a survey of where people are from that go camping up there, go fishing on the canal.

00:50:21,500	I think that’s a lot of Burleigh County residents as well. And so I think you have to look a little bit more broadly versus like we get X number of dollars for swing sets. They’re providing a lot of, of recreation opportunities for people that makes this a great community to live in because you’ve got a lot of access immediately to fishing and recreational opportunities.

00:50:37,430	That’s just something else to think about if you have some facts and figures to back that up, we’ll consider it, but I just don’t think having an opinion that many people fish and many people camp. It’s sufficient for this conversation. because we’re talking about a lot of money Mr.

00:50:56,870	Schwab Are you saying that people that don’t belong to the district, don’t come in and use the facilities in these lakes. I don’t think that’s something we need to be arguing about, not even at all, but I’m saying that there are certain organizations in the state that have funding that are trying to make this a better place for

00:51:12,800	people to want to work and to come to this community because we do have a workforce challenge in North Dakota in general, and we have amenities. What if nobody paid for anything like that and we didn’t have anything, you know, somebody has to. We’re see ing funding go out for different projects across the entire state.

00:51:27,730	Right To counties that are not participating in the process and the funding for this anyway. Why should Burleigh County residents be funding projects for other counties that are not involved with the program.

00:51:48,170	One thing I want to underscore is, and some of this might be when you’re seeing these, you know, a billion dollar project to bring water to eastern North Dakota, just to make it very clear, that is not your mail levy funding that’s going to any of that, OK? That’s, um, funding that is allocated by the legislature, 75% state money, 25% stakeholder money for the people that are involved in that project.

00:52:08,800	So Red River Valley Water supply project, for example, very expensive project, if that’s something that’s in your mind, and I’m guessing it might be, but that’s something that you are, none of your mill levy funding is going towards that to make it perfect that would be where he is that substantial amount of money going if it’s not

00:52:25,970	returning to Burleigh County, not providing projects in Burleigh County. It’s just being sent where to the cloud? You know, if, if you want to have a meeting, and this is and we’d be happy to sit down with you and go through we already have that information is the problem.

00:52:44,000	We have records of what has been spent in Burleigh County going back to, what did I see? 2018. And simply put Chair it’s just, Comm Woodcock Um, when you start 2018, the big benefit the money benefit that Bertie County got was when we did the Vericine water project, rural water, and they put a ton of money and that’s

00:53:08,530	not in the fingers. But it wasn’t their money. It was, it was federal money funneled through that. So you can’t, you can’t say that they, they didn’t put money, I think I can.

00:53:23,630	No, I think I can, cause, uh, uh, we looked it up to see what, uh, they put in a but they allocate money to different projects. And this project was one that, uh, they did do, and they were heavily involved, I mean heavily, or, or we wouldn’t have had the money to do it.

00:53:38,000	Well, I, I think that was what, when I was a kid? No, no, I, when was that? I, I think it’s like South Central received a bunch of MRNI. Is that what you’re talking about, the 57 million? Is that what you’re talking about? So there’s, there’s an example of where garrison diversion staff time. would have had to work with the people in DC to come up with that authorization.

00:53:54,070	It’s been, it’s, it’s a lot of staff time trying to get that money back to North Dakota. And once it gets back to North Dakota. then we go through the. plans and specs, we have to approve those. We go through the change orders. We work with each system where that money gets spent.

00:54:10,000	And what I was trying to call out differently with Southwest is Southwest was particularly put in that language, in that bill, so that it had to go outside the district. That one was called out, I believe in TWRA of 2000. Everything else was pretty much inside the boundary.

00:54:29,730	And if you, if you weren’t in the boundary, then you would have to go to the state and go all-state, state funding. Thanks, Commissioners. Any additional questions? Mr.

00:54:46,470	Woodcoox? we had a meeting last week of Water Resource District and, uh, we discussed this at length and a lot of, uh, unfortunately, you can’t take a lot of the benefits that Bernie County, uh, that garrison diversion gives to Bernie County, but it’s a lot of underlying least like the, the, the thing you’re talking about going to Washington DC and monitoring for a big water project.

00:55:02,970	We don’t do that as a county. I don’t think any individual counties do, but we use garrison diversion to do that. And otherwise, they wouldn’t come here. If they don’t come here, then the state would not benefit at all. And I think these state projects they benefit Bernie County, but it’s a hidden benefit.

00:55:19,800	It’s not something that you can call, uh, $10 or $15 or whatever it might be. I, I think that’s a concern of mine, Comm, is that it’s a hidden benefit and the. the taxpayers that talk to me don’t appreciate hidden benefits. They want to know what are, we getting, not like they’re trying to hide them.

00:55:37,800	It’s just that, that you don’t see them. Uh, you don’t see a, a swing set in there that they’ve paid for. Uh it’s more benefits of recreation and using the using the river. I see. And if we don’t use the river, we don’t, North Dakota doesn’t use the water.

00:55:53,630	It’s going to be used down the, down the stream. So, uh, I, I really, I’ve changed my mind because I was in the last 5 years I’ve been against, uh, the $700,000 we paid, but now I’ve changed my mind and I, I think we can discuss this postpone it for another two or three weeks and get more, more beds. Sure.

00:56:12,270	I’d like to research what Bernie County got from, from, uh, Garrison diversion on the, on the rural water system. uh, and find out how much that was, but because you’re always talking about dollars. You’re always do an engineer from the water system right there. I’m retired, but You’re lucky. Sure.

00:56:33,630	I, I would, oh, I’m sorry. No, go ahead, go ahead. I would just say, I know you guys like to look at dollar for dollar, but what would the state of California say about their income tax that they they pay really bad. Come on, you guys, you guys are a big county.

00:56:51,800	You can’t expect a small Grigs County to make up all the money, right? It’s just it’s unfortunate. I, uh, certainly be part of it though, Comm. My, my concern though is, and, and I understand the value to the state I, I do, and I understand the value coming in from with the federal dollars.

00:57:14,430	Why is Burleigh County paying for projects that are outside of Burleigh County. I understand the value, but shouldn’t every county in the state that’s benefiting off these projects no matter where the project is or the federal doll’s coming in, why shouldn’t they be paying in as well? Because when the mission for this started and the missions changed somewhat, but when it started and Burleigh County was

00:57:37,970	in, and a small group of counties was in. but a large group of counties are seeing the benefits of this being paid for by the taxpayers of the small group of counties that are members. That’s my concern. Why is this not a state program.

00:57:55,800	If the state wants to go and mandate a certain percentage as a mill across the board, I would be OK with that. But the way it sits right now, it’s disproportional on who’s paying for these projects coming into the state of North Dakota, not back into Burleigh County or members of the garrison diversion Authority.

00:58:15,100	and I see where you’re coming from, but you know, in the beginning when Garrison diversion was developed, Bismarck or Burleigh County was not part of it. No, it was getting water. It went to the valley. It went to an election, and the citizens, the same citizens that voted you guys in voted for garrison diversion.

00:58:30,000	thinking that they were going to get a benefit out of. Well, maybe some of them think. Well, we did get, what, 1400 acres of irrigation. Oh wow. You’d like to get more? Uh, that’s up to the landowners too. We don’t just throw money. They have to have some skill in the game too.

00:58:42,800	I, I hear what you’re saying, but I think that the the, uh, the return on investment is nonexistent, and Comm Buck has there been a conversation because of the dollars that are, and I understand the dollars that come in from the federal level into the state of North Dakota.

00:58:57,170	Has there been a discussion with the legislature or um with the state, uh, on. what this program should look like rather than being put on a very small group of member counties. If this was a state because this, the entire state benefits from this, and nobody can argue that. The state benefits.

00:59:19,700	Burleigh County does the specifically or disproportionately benefits with the investment that’s going in. I think this conversation should be held at the legislature, and what this looks like for the value of this program statewide versus a small group of counties footing the bill, right? Mr.

00:59:45,270	Schwab I have a question for Julie Julie is the account is Burleigh County allowed to give grants. Can we, as a Comm, give grants out. No Turn your mic off The reason I ask whether the county can give grants, etc. and the answer is no What garrison diversion is doing. is taking money from us and giving grants, and I do not like that. That’s a runaround of the law.

01:00:13,530	and I think Comm Bakken is right. They better get squared up there on that. And, uh, we don’t know, we don’t approve the grants. We don’t know where the hell this money’s gone. And you can always say, well, the federal money comes in with these projects been done without the garrison diversion.

01:00:37,600	I’m not sure which, um, which projects you’re referring to the Southwest Wa line, South Central, they’d have been done without the Garrisoners. Maybe, maybe, no, they wouldn’t don’t know. Neither do you. Or Western Are water supply.

01:00:55,170	I don’t know if they would have been done without garrison diversion, but that garrison is the one that put it together, and I was involved in the initial like Watford City and Williston trying to do something on their own. They worked with Garrison to develop how can we do this? What are our options? Can you help us? And we did oil producing counties and they’re drowning.

01:01:10,100	Well, well, in part, it’s because we, we responded to it and we helped them get the water supply so that they could get the water out for fracking, and that’s, that’s what I’m saying. There’s some advantage there.

01:01:21,530	Being, being that you’re a lawyer and I don’t want to get into it with a lawyer because I always would lose. You might need 11 day, but you guys are giving grants out with Burleigh County money. and we can’t do that So do you think that’s right? You know, everybody has to act within their legal authority, right? And so, for example, the recreation program that you’re bringing up, um, concerns about,

01:01:45,370	um, the recreation program, Garrison has funding set aside for recreation, um, grants, but it’s usually, I think if I’m, I’m, the ones that I’ve worked on it there’s matching. The county has to, there has to be a public match.

01:02:02,600	And so it would have to be a city or a county that’s going to come up with 25% to, to, um, so there is like an approval. There’s a asking for input, there’s getting you on board, um, but we, Garrison does have the authority to be able to do that.

01:02:16,700	And if you’re asking me if it’s right or wrong, I don’t have an opinion on that. It’s just what the law is. And so maybe what has to happen if you want to see more out of this, you have a beautiful waterfront here, right? You’ve got amazing riverfront.

01:02:32,470	What amenities would you like to see in Burleigh County? Because here’s some opportunity for you to work with Garrison Diversion and bring more of that money back to Burleigh County. The, here’s your opportunity.

01:02:47,000	And, and so I, I guess it’s not up to Garrison to say, what can we do in Burleigh County? It’s up to people in Burleigh County or entities to come to us and say we have this great idea, we’d love to have some funding for it. Can you help us with design work? Can you get your engineers to help us? Can you help us develop a plan and facilitate it, and we’re saying yes, we’re here for you what you’re saying.

01:03:00,170	However, you know, over this, since we started this conversation. Somebody was tossing around numbers or 9 million here, 9.9 million over whatever length of time, and I’m pretty sure that whatever riverfront development we would have wanted to do in the meantime, we could have used that 99 million and just done it. Comm Schwab Um I think we’ve gone about as far as we can on this.

01:03:23,630	This letter, the only reason why we’re going to do it today is because we wanted it on the agenda, the decision to Senate’s been made, and you’re asking us to overrule ourselves. I won’t. I think we should just send a letter because we mean business, and I don’t even think we have to vote on it.

01:03:42,900	do we And there’s a formal petitioning process if you’re going to petition to get out of the district, in which case there’s a hearing that would be held, and there’s legal standards. And if you get no benefit from being part of Garrison diversion, then legally you have to be let out.

01:04:02,630	If you get some benefit from garrison diversion, then it’s a discretionary issue for the board of care as far as the benefits we’re losing money on it, so we’re not getting much benefit Right. Mr. Chair Mr. Woodcock. Uh, one thing, the grant you’re talking about, the recreational fund that they have. We have to apply for it.

01:04:24,070	Everybody, you have to apply. They’re like, like you say, they’re not gonna come on and knock on your door and say, hey, can we put a new boat landing in. Uh, uh, it’s up to the constituents of the counties to, to do that.

01:04:37,530	They have to, they have to apply and, and if they get a grant, they get a grant. If they don’t, they don’t. So I appreciate you bringing that up, cause I think Comm Munsen told us that he applied for a grant for something with a boat rent, but he’s limited to $50,000,000. Yep. So, if, if you put in for a grant and you’re limited at $50,000.

01:04:53,370	That’s not going to do much. Yeah, and you, you just gave away 700,000, then you could maybe get 50,000 so you can match it with another 50,000, that’s not part of the 700,000.

01:05:09,470	Is that a good investment, Comm? Are you, it’s, it, it’s not a monettarily, uh, a good investment, but I don’t think you can. Well, yeah, I don’t think you can compare 700,000 to 50,000 or whatever it might be. Well, that’s, that’s, and say this is money, money, money on either side, you got to look at just the money.

01:05:24,370	You got to look beyond the money, and that’s what I’m hanging my hat on. You got to look beyond the, the money that we’re spending, that the benefits of what look into the clouds or what are what what justification. The citizens come to me and said, look we want reduced property taxes. Why are we paying for that? We’re not getting the benefit.

01:05:39,800	I have no answer. I, I don’t have a good answer, Comm Schwab Comm, another thing is it isn’t going to be long and the one mil will be, uh, a million dollars. Oh, yeah. We know that And looking at it from a business point of view. a million dollars invested in this county every year, makes more sense.

01:06:07,000	than getting 50,000 back and on a million and uh we generate tax revenue off that city benefits. county benefits and sales tax when that money rolls over. and the people quit complaining about paying something that the federal government has screwed up royally. and have abandoned and pretty soon the ducks are going to abandon it.

01:06:38,000	The geese are gone already and the fish, but the taxpayers are stuck. and that’s the point that I want to make. OK, Comm Bakke. I see the value in Garrison. I don’t see the equity coming back to us.

01:07:03,100	My biggest concerns again are money going to projects that are outside the realm and the scope of who’s a member of Garrison and the benefits coming statewide, this should be a state project Again, coming back to the property tax issues and, and the taxpayers’ burden that they’re seeing, a lot of this comes back to the fact that the legislature and the state have not addressed property tax

01:07:23,900	issues. That puts us and should put other municipalities in the position of having to pinch pennies. and at this point, to me, Garrison is a luxury that we can’t afford and I don’t know how other counties can afford it as well, given the what the state looks like with property taxes.

01:07:52,730	So right now for me money going to projects that are outside of the membership and why this is not, because I see the value, I understand the value, bringing the federal dollars into North Dakota, then why isn’t this a state program? because the mission has changed and this should get addressed to the legislature.

01:08:12,470	In the meantime I’m not seeing the benefit for Burleigh County residents. OK. Um go ahead. Mr. Chair, just 11 more thing, you know, I, um, when, uh, Comm Munsen said, you know, that he was limited to $50,000.

01:08:32,530	It just made me think that maybe what’s going on here, because you do have an amazing waterfront, right? You have amazing parks, restroom facilities, you’ve got sidewalks, you’ve got children’s parks. OK, it might be that you’re a very successful doesn’t generate economic development, but that’s a different discussion for a different day. Well, and I think there’s been some funding that goes to softball, parks and splash pads that do are a fee for service.

01:08:47,900	And so there are some fe es generated for some of those things. But my point was going to be, I probably wouldn’t go there because he’s actually got a bunch of documentation on that and the, and the numbers returning to Burleigh County are woefully inadequate compared to what we spend, OK, you know, hang on.

01:09:02,630	One at a time. I, I, I’d like you just to finish your yep, I was just going to suggest that it might be a matter that you’re maybe the victims of your own success in like the city of Bismarck, where they are funding all their projects

01:09:15,630	on their own. Maybe they don’t think to say, you know what, we could get some matching funds from Garrison Diversion to develop this children’s park or play area or um a new dock or we’re going to be putting in a new restroom, and maybe they don’t just think about putting that in their budget and maybe

01:09:30,970	they could or should. And again, I’m saying maybe because I haven’t been involved, but as we were sitting here talking about it, it just made me think that maybe they’re not, I mean, they could probably put in a grant request every year on some things that they’re doing, because you have so many

01:09:43,370	beautiful amenities on your riverfront. I’d like to respond to that if I could, Comm Munsen. Um as a former member of the Park District. Board of Commissioners, Burleigh County Burig City of Bismarck this year. They took advantage of that every chance they could.

01:10:03,430	and the return as what the commissioners here are saying, the dollars that are coming back to Burleigh County, Primarily are going to the park district for those projects The question is, is the quantity you know, I’ve got a $3 million project on the river that I have to do. The matching grant or the grant from from you is maxed out at $50,000.

01:10:25,370	for $3 million project that I have to do. Yet we’ve struggle, we’ve brought in all this money. Now, I haven’t said a whole lot yet because I agree with with the Gerrisonerver project. I understand what you do and I appreciate what you do.

01:10:47,270	um I’m not on the same side as the equity side of it because I know without you we wouldn’t have the rural water system that we have. because you guys spent the time to fight for that system to bring the federal dollars here.

01:11:08,600	In our money paid for that you know, the dollars that the citizens of Burleigh County didn’t I mean, they didn’t all go to that. I mean, there’s still some more that, that, uh, I think could be brought back to Burleigh County. Uh, but without that, I don’t think that water system would be in place, and so I appreciate that.

01:11:25,230	um, on the flip side, I do agree with these commissioners in the fact that when we’re looking at a $3 million project. and the max I’m gonna get is 50. if I’m successful in my application process, that’s tough. That’s tough for me to swallow.

01:11:41,600	I would agree we should look at that and that’s what I was going to say too is that, is it time that Garrison changes that 50,000? Is it something that maybe you can appoint one of you to meet with us to talk through, you know, how would you like to see it? Could we, could we move that 50,000 up? How long has it been in place?

01:11:57,800	Inflation, building costs, whatever, you know, you raise a great point. Yeah. Cause. For as long as I’ve been part of, uh, Bismarck Park. It’s never been any larger than that. So that’s going back 14 years. Yeah, no, that’s a very good point.

01:12:14,370	And, and have you guys had a any track record whatsoever of talking with the legislature on revamping the business model, because that’s the part of the problem I have with this is your business model’s old and it’s relying on the backs of a select few for statewide projects. I, I, I got a problem with that. I, I see the value.

01:12:32,070	I, I see the money coming in from the federal. But the business model’s gotta to get updated. It’s old You need to talk to the legislature, Comm Woodcock. just a quick question. The city of Bismarck pay a membership fee to to Bason or to garrison? No. No. Ho, the park board? None? No. So, the benefits they’re getting uh really come from Bernie County. Correct. Right. OK.

01:12:54,800	OK, so, thank you. Um, is there anybody else wish to speak on this item before we go any further. Anybody else wish to speak on that item? It’s a gentleman trying to get up over here Good My name’s Herb Grintz. I’m used to uh Emmons County resident.

01:13:18,430	In fact, uh, I got old, now I’m a Bertie County resident. But in a way, dealing with what you are talking about it’s a very confusing federal situation in the garrison conservancy district, I’ll tell you what. It’ll drive you up a tree It’s the most complicated unexplainable situation that you’re talking about. You’re talking about recreation.

01:13:47,730	OK The fact is, is that in Min’s colondy we er have about 8000 acres under irrigation. That is none but but the barrow Reclamation. Now when this project started, we’re supposed to have horsehead Project. It was studied by the Bureau of Reclamation, ready to go. We haven’t got a *** dollar from it since that time.

01:14:13,270	Every time we testify before the Bureau of Reclamation were steadying it, we’re steadying it. And finally I got to the point that says, *** it, I’m gonna ask you, when you’re going to take the test? You, you pass. Well, in my opinion, you have not passed.

01:14:32,000	Now I’ve come to recreation We do not pay, uh, we are not a member of M. Connie for the simple reason we don’t need any more entertainment that could come at the end of the year. What have we done in Garrison and then some counties get recreation and money and stat stuff.

01:14:48,530	We’re not interested in that. We’re interested in basically what can be done. Now to get water out of the river is in, isn’t the easy project either. We lost 2000 acres. to the garrison, well, to the Wahi Reservoir. and what did we get out of it? Absolutely nothing.

01:15:12,100	Water, now we’re getting to below sand because we are the what we call it uh slee of the reservoir. 18 uh the Sua Reservoir of Hawaii is 1640. We got 1604. We got a lot of bare land laying there. We get beautiful sandstorms.

01:15:38,430	We get beautiful noxious weeds off of it too, but the fact is, is that there is a problem with it, but for one thing I want to stress to you. Water is life You got the Yellowstone River. You drill a hole 20 miles to the eldest stone lake. and you drop into the Colorado River. Don’t think that isn’t being pushed.

01:16:05,100	Pushed very hard So we people have to work together, get our act together Sometimes they say the hell with Congress or our Congress pick because we haven’t got a darn thing from them. We did it on our own in Emmons County. I started irrigation up because we lost all our bottom land. I have 8, we have 800 acres on irrigation. and it wasn’t done by the government, it was done by us.

01:16:26,370	But the thing that was so ironic about it is that the Bureau of Reclamation is doing soil tests. for irrigation We bought the first, maybe one of the first Beetelf-propelled irrigations in North Dakota.

01:16:46,630	And then he put, when he got the study done, it, it was a goal. And then he had a picture of this irrigation system on the front page. and I said, Well, what’s going on here? Most of the irrigation you qualified for was ditch irrigation. Run the water down the ditch. We don’t have that anymore.

01:17:06,270	We could put an inch of water when it’s needed It don’t run off. It don’t take care of your fertilizer, your fertilizer is in the water that you can ply into the systems. Systems have started out in as good or good. We’ve been blessed with water, but when it gets dry, oh boy, we need water.

01:17:23,500	and the fact is be very, very, I don’t care what the inner arguments are or whatever, but for God’s sake, be careful. Don’t lose the water of the Missouri River. It’s going by us.

01:17:44,370	And I’ve gone through the floods, I went through the whole thing because I’ll be 90 years old in another couple months, but the fact is I’ve seen it all, and I’ve been in a lot of it all, and it’s seen no hardship of it all. And the fact is, with dealing with the core or dealing with the federal government is no picnic. In fact, we’re almost had a fistfight to get a pump site in.

01:18:01,370	with the corpsmen, whatever. but I mean I lucked out. He was stepping out, but in a way, if there’s any questions, I’ll answer them, and that I’ll go home. OK, Comm, any questions? Are you Retired. Am I retired? Do I look it? No. OK. I am in a. My dad was in Strasburg.

01:18:24,270	Yes. I remember, I was, I recognized the name very well, sir. Any other questions Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Good job. Anybody else was speaking on this item? Welcome Right, right Commissioners, uh er man Bakke I mean, not blogger Breitner. Sorry about that. I’ll be better. Yeah, they will be.

01:18:58,370	Yeah, I’m, I’m, uh any, anytime there’s, uh, that much money going out and very little coming in. It’s pretty much common sense to me that to get out of it uh seems like a big money pit, he asked me.

01:19:23,000	what do we got like 14 miles of longer not sure how many miles for sure, but uh, 28 colonies. that belong to the, the district, uh, by the way, I know you, but can you state your name for me? Yeah, Lanny Kenner, uh, Bismarck. I could’ve got 25 counties out of it and 28 units.

01:19:47,530	It just seems like to me it’s a you know, and I was hidden, hidden, uh hidden benefits, you know but uh you got that much money going out hardly any coming in. Makes no sense Seeings plain as day to me Thank you. Is any questions. Mr. Woodcutter. Mr.

01:20:13,700	Chair Is there such a thing as us asking somebody, the garrison diversion to come and tell us what benefits we’ve gotten because we just found out that the city and the park district getting benefits, and we are, we are not counting that money as a return to Verdie County. So I’d like to see that figure on what it might be, but I know we, I’d like to see what the, the, uh, Garson diver is doing for Bernie County. Yeah.

01:20:32,000	And, uh want to share your information with him or what do you. Oh, Well, good. So, I, I would move, I, I would I would move the table information and stuff, but right now we are supposed to decide whether we’re going to send the letter that we already decided we’re going to send. No, we we need to move on.

01:20:48,970	We put it on the table. No. Yes, we did. No. I just reviewed the minutes and the, the motionless to table till this meeting. I just reviewed the minutes and it says the motion was to table this until this meeting.

01:21:07,070	OK, I move that we send the letter Mr. Chair, I have made a motion before. He had a chance to, I moved the wee table. Is there a second? Second Yeah, motion the second to table. Any further discussion? I roll Comm Woodoxx. Yes. Comm Munsen. Yes. Comm Bakken. I would like more information to get a better conversation before we make a decision. So yes.

01:21:37,170	Richer Schwab? No. Chair Bittner? No. Motion carries OK, we’ll move on We’re expecting some additional information, so we will have that on the, uh, agenda for the next meeting. Um, Chair so Mr. Bakke Garrison offered a meeting.

01:22:04,700	Do we want to send a Comm to meet with them and get a better overview that they could bring back for the conversation as well. They offered, I, I say we take them up on that. You volunteer You’re going to volunteer me? Just did. Thanks. All right, fine. Fine. Uh, if you want to get a hold of me and we’ll chat. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

01:22:24,070	Commission we didn’t come up with is, there are a lot of things that the county does and the city does. You can’t say, well, we spent $2 million here and we got 20,000 back. You can’t compare apples and oranges because, uh, look on our health department.

01:22:38,630	We pay a ton of money for the health department. Do we get a monetary value back from that? No. Our park district, we’ve had much much of money for that too.

01:22:52,900	Do we get value out dollar value out of it? No, we get recreational value out of it and we get healthcare out of it, but, uh, so it’s hard to, to take garrison diversion and say, uh, we paid $700,000 and we get nothing back. Yeah. It, it’s interesting you bring that up because that kind of plays into my point on the fact that we’re mandated by the state to have a, a health department. Yes, we are.

01:23:12,630	We’re not mandated by the state to be part of garrison diversion. But the benefits go statewide. See what I’m getting at? So again, a little different discussion, I think. that discussion should probably be held with the legislature and instead of just at this table, but we’re, you’re right portionate, but I will meet with them and, hopefully bring back some more information for the county. OK.

01:23:35,600	Next item on the agenda, kind of the auditor Swanskowski regarding auxiliary board membership expirations. Good evening, Chair and Commissioners. Uh, yes, so, uh, that time of year again where we start opening up an auxiliary board application openings, um, included in your packet, the, uh, is the current calendar and members as well as

01:24:00,700	I highlighted the the members whose terms are expiring at the end of this year. Um, a couple notes as far as the human service zone board. There is one member on there whose term will be ending at the end of this year.

01:24:17,730	I reached out to Chelsea about that position and uh they would like to go ahead and just reduce the size of their board by that particular member. Um, I I believe that Sentry Code allows them to do so, uh, but that would be up to your discretion if you want them to do that.

01:24:30,630	I believe there’s 8 people on that board currently and that if they were to reduce it, it would make it an odd number which would prevent it from uh split votes and such.

01:24:47,070	Um, another note that I want to make as well is there’s a uh resignation as uh as of the end of the year on the water management board so there would be an, an extra person on that per an extra opening for applications on that board, um, so I, I believe that we probably get clar clarification from Julie, but lady that Well, it will be open publicly for applications, but, um, that particular position would probably be appointed just to

01:25:12,700	fill the remainder of that term, so we don’t lose our rotation on that on that spot. OK, so for clarification, why don’t you tell the public um which boards have an opening. So the uh Coy Planning Commission has 3 openings County housing Authority has one opening.

01:25:34,270	Human Services on board, um, well, depending upon the discretion of the Commission may have one opening. Uh, the school district organization has, well, technically it has 5 openings because we still haven’t received any applications from the, the expired spots from last year. Um, special assessment Commission has one opening Uh, Water Management Board has 3 openings.

01:25:58,630	uh, and so that’s, that’s the physicians that we currently have open and I can send this list over to Mary and get this put on the website so that we can get it as publicized as possible. OK. I would move to get these posted minus the human service zone.

01:26:17,370	Remember, because that even number does create some issues sometimes, so dropping that down to 7, so not advertising the humaner zone, laying that position go away, and then posting the openings for the other side. Daggett motion is second. Mr. Chair. Um, Comm Woodcock.

01:26:35,470	That, if we drop off, that would be, we, we would have no county res representation on that board, is that correct? Uh, no, that’s not correct, is there one Comm that’s, uh, pointed to that board for Human Service. Yes, it’s my portfolio. You are? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think they, they could get along without a county commission input. That’s not.

01:26:53,170	I, I give the county, we’d be dropping, we, we’re not, we’re not dropping the county Comm. We’re dropping the one of the appointed board or the board members that right now there’s 8. I realized, dropping down. No, no, that we, we still retain that as a portfolio.

01:27:12,800	Right, and, and just for the record, the person that um is up head contacted me and his preference would be to not be reappointed to the board. He is, um, his own reasons and, you know, unless we couldn’t find somebody else or something like that, but he’s um, willing to step down. or just not be replaced. Yep. OK. Any further discussion Follow the rule.

01:27:37,000	Comm Munsen? Yes, Comm Bakken, yes, Comm Schwab. Yes. Comm Woodcock. Yes, Chair Bitner. Yes, motion carries. And then, uh, if I could just get one clarification. Typically what we’ll do is I’ll go ahead and just receive applications and then present them all to you at the last meeting of the year.

01:27:52,370	Is that what, is that something that you guys wish to do this year as well? Well yeah, that’s. Yeah, well, I think we’ll, I think we’ll leave the, the question open until to the end of the year, but I think presenting the applications can be done anytime.

01:28:09,530	So do you want me to present the applications I’ve received within that time period at every meeting moving forward don’t see any problem with that as long as we’re considering them all at the same time, it, it just not gonna make any difference. We wouldn’t vote on them until the end. Yeah, but just knowing that people are applying would be a good thing. Yeah, true.

01:28:22,730	OK. So, you want to vote until the end of to let you know who’s applied or how many applications I’ve received. Uh, both, you know. OK. More information is always good. OK. That would give us an opportunity to track where we’re not receiving. Yeah, and so we can. Applications so that we can ask for applications.

01:28:38,970	Let’s talk about it here OK. Thank you. Keep the ball in here. And just make sure and have an agenda item for that then. Other business Commissioners, any other business for the good of the county. Is there a member of Summit Carbon Solutions here or whatever their new name is.

01:29:00,000	No, thank you Any other business Commissioners, we are Adjourned