00:00:10,100 All right, uh, the time is 3 o’clock. We’re in the Tom Baker meeting room, and it’s time to get started. 00:00:24,500 Um, before we a moment of silence. Walt Bailey passed away on the 11th. Um, as many of you know, he was a historian for the state of North Dakota for 37 years, co-founded the Bismarck Historical Society and was a founding member of this HPC. So we’ll just observe Walt and his great legacy for us. 00:01:00,300 Thank you, um, and if anybody wants to share their memories of Walt, um, that would be great if you want to let Lauren know and we can put that in the meeting minutes for next time. Great. All right, can we roll call then? Comm Zenker. Here. Comm Hull. Here. Comm Swanson. Comm Pursley. Comm Nodland. 00:01:25,370 Comm Sakariassen. Chair Engel, here. All right, um, in your packet, you will have the Historic Preservation Commission reviews that we are, um, working on or have undertaken so you can review those at your leisure. 00:01:46,470 Um, can we have a review and a call for approval for the meeting minutes from last time. On motion for that. 2. Right. Any comments, questions, concerns? Hearing none, we’ll call. 00:02:11,270 Comm yes. Engel, yes. All right, uh, on to the regular agenda, the Downtown street lights. Uh, greetings, uh, Changel and Commissioners. This is just gonna be a quick overview, um, city engineering is exploring downtown pedestrian street lights, uh, and they just want to bring this uh potential project to your attention early on in, in their, uh, In their 00:02:45,000 review of it, uh, I’ll Allow uh Linda Oster with City Engineering to provide an overview of what they’ve been looking at so far. Good afternoon, commission. Uh, Linda Oster, assistant city engineer with um the engineering department. 00:03:19,530 And, um, We are currently working with public works to upgrade all of our street lighting in the city of Bismarck. Um, after this construction season 2025. All of the street lights within the city of Bismarck, with the exception of the downtown area will be upgraded to the LED lights. Um, they’re, they provide a better quality of light, and they also reduce power consumption. 00:03:48,500 In fact, we’re down probably 60% of our power consumption costs when we change out an area of the city. So that’s very encouraging. Um, In the downtown area. Um, these lights are metal hali. 00:04:11,400 They, they aren’t the high pressure sodium, um, but because they’re metal halide, they have, um, been increasingly hard to find metal halide bulbs when we do find them, they’re very expensive. So what Public Works has been doing is they have been upgrading the um the metal halide, um, taking out the interior, um, I’ll call them guts of the fixture and and upgrading them to an LED retrofit. 00:04:37,870 Um The metal halide is very old technology, and um, you know, systematically the industry is phasing them out. So eventually we’re going to have to upgrade to something other than, than the metal hali and even. High pressure sodium is also being phased out. So LED is really the place to go with them. Now we have some challenges. 00:05:04,900 I mean, there’s already challenges when we try to upgrade the, the, or retrofit the existing fixtures. Um, They Uh, my second bullet point there, any attempt to change out the interior components of the fixture is difficult. 00:05:33,030 The globes are very fragile because polycarbonates break down very quickly when they’re exposed to the elements and over 27 years and some of them been up they have broken, shattered, whatnot, the interior components are also very brittle. Um The another challenge that that we’re facing is we have 4 different fixtures from. 00:06:00,900 4 different manufacturers, um, with a bracket, the bracket, the, the, uh, wheat motif farms, um, And 3 different pole manufacturers, which means we have 3 different sizes of tenants that we have to try to get this bracket to fit on some of these brackets are separate from the light itself. Some of them are integral to the fixture itself. It makes it difficult to try to put out a set of plans to change them all out. And so they, they will continue looking the same moving forward. 00:06:20,230 Um Currently, we only have one lighting manufacturer. Actually, we may actually have another, but the difficulty is that it’s a custom piece for both of them, so that means, um, and they both only offer the integral bracket and the cost is very high. Um And and that’s the last point too. 00:06:47,030 I mean, we’ve had 4, but Three have backed out and said we’re not making the fixture anymore. So it’s a challenge. So So what are we asking for? What Let, let me go into, we have over 200 of the pedestrian fixtures, probably closer to about 230. That will need to be replaced or upgraded. 00:07:23,800 Um, that includes the fixtures and the brackets because they’re two different configurations, um, we did install some in 2024, um, about 20 of them along 3rd Street. 00:07:44,530 We have another project in in the works along Front Avenue between 3rd and 7th, that we’re looking for another 30 of them, so if, if you look at that, 200 of them we need to replace. We’re going to put in 30 more. We have 20 that are on 3rd Street, so of those. That we have an opportunity to put in, um, new, we’re asking. What we’re feeling this is an opportunity to ask the Downtown community. 00:08:06,830 Is this a fixture you still wanna go with? Or is there something better you’d like to do? Would you like a different bracket arm? The bracket arms right now, they were meant to hold a banner, um, but it it would be a custom banner, and I, I think it’s been cost prohibitive in the past to utilize that custom bracket, um, and there’s some 00:08:25,470 op or I have some pictures here that can show you what we’d really be looking at for a bracket arm that would kind of clean up the poles you’d be able to use them for a banner and, and then put uh an additional banner on the bottom as as time goes on. 00:08:43,630 So really we’re, we’re putting this forward to you if you’re willing to look at an additional bra or fixture and bracket configuration. We think this is an opportunity to, um, um. Maybe find a more cost effective way and maybe a more pleasing way to. Um, like the downtown, um, I bring up cost and cost isn’t the only thing. 00:09:06,730 I mean, I’ve listed some very good things, but. When we put in those lights in 2014 or 24, sorry. Um, they were $4900 apiece. So if we replace everything downtown, that’s over a million dollars. Um, that’s why we’re bringing this. 00:09:31,730 To the Downtown community, is it time to relook at our downtown design criteria and maybe update the fixture to something that’s maybe unique to Bismarck, but not unique to the industry. 00:09:55,400 So It With that, what, what I wanna do is I wanna show you some options that we’re looking at and we’re gonna ask, um, the technical committee for Downtowns design review to, to share their thoughts on. Um, this one here is very similar to what we use in our residential areas, we would have it in a bronze. We would reuse the existing concrete poles. 00:10:16,670 Um If you notice, And And I don’t have a pointer here, but in the picture on the right there is a bracket arm. That’s what I’m talking about. It would just be flat out so you could use any standard banner on it, and then you’d simply, um, take on the banner arms below. So that that’s what I, I’m suggesting. Um, another option is the Washington series also by Hall of Fame. 00:10:41,730 It’s, these are all LED. There’s really no lens. The lens is up above and it shines out. I, I think it looks very nice. Um Let me preface by saying I am not a historian. I don’t know how this fits into the downtown and I value your input on that. 00:11:05,830 This is called lasa by Sternberg. I, I think this has kind, at first I looked at it, I thought it was more Victorian, but now I think it’s, it’s kind of has a uh art deco feel to it. 00:11:25,500 Here’s another one, probably a little more Victorian in in style, but it’s something we certainly could do also in a dark bronze, all of these we verified they can be in a dark bronze, so they would match. Any dark bronzes that are on the poles. And, and they’d also match the 30 ft poles that are currently the dark bronze. This is one of my favorite ones. 00:11:46,900 It’s, it’s a Euro fixture by Sternberg. Um, I think what we’d be doing is we. Be looking for. Um You know, one without a, uh, outer lens, just one that has a lens up on top and shine down. I think it’s very nice. 00:12:05,730 I think it would work well for what we needed to do. And then This is what we have today. This is the fixture that is a custom. Build for ELA. And so it still is an option and we would price it out alongside any other options, um, the Downtown community would want to look at. 00:12:37,630 Um, Uh, the one thing I wanted to point out, the 30-foot polls would also have just the head changed at the same time. The polls would remain the same. We have. Um, some options for those and fairly reasonable to maintain and replace, so, so it’s just the pedestrian poles, the 3 the 13 footers. 00:13:02,130 And with that, I, I am free to answer any questions. I have a few questions. One was, um, For the banners I um With the new styles you’re you’re proposing, would they, with the old banners still work on the new ones? The, the banners we currently have, they should work on what, on those, um, correct. 00:13:26,130 And then the other question I had relating to banners was, uh, Um If the style would survive if the style would allow the banners to survive North Dakota wins. 00:13:42,630 Um, because it looked like the current style has bars at, at top and bottom and then the style I saw, at least where I could tell in the photos, just had at the top. Sour thoughts on that or what other cities like Fargo or Grand Forks might do a fit for their banner? Yes, I, I’m, I’m not concerned with that part of our submittal would be, um, an evaluation by a structural engineer because we do call out certain requirements for Um, you know, 00:14:04,630 wind gusts and, and just standard loading, wind loading, so we’d be concerned with that as well as we move through approval. OK. Those are my two, I guess non-historic preservation questions. Fair. Thank you. Mr. No. 00:14:28,570 Linda, I have a, I have a question in a, um, Uh, maybe a suggestion, I don’t know, um, so Bismarck has a long history of Downtown street lights that were very decorative and, um, I thought that I had sent Lauren a series of them over the 150 years how they progressed, um, and so I guess, um, one of my questions is how many are you talking about in the downtown area and 00:14:54,270 not that you want to add yet another. Size, whatever, but I guess my question for the HPC is, um, For tourism, for economic development, for creating the sense of place in our downtown. If we’re going for more of a historic. 00:15:19,300 Lamp pedestrian lamp looking thing, would it be? Is it more appropriate to try to go with one that we actually had in the past or to go with. A modern version, I mean, I don’t know if they even make them that are similar to the ones that we had in the past. I have no idea. They may not. 00:15:32,100 Yeah, and I’m sorry, I haven’t seen those and, and I’d be I’ll send them to you and to Lauren this afternoon or I, I would be, um, very, um, I’d look forward to looking and see if we can find something maybe at least similar or I don’t know if we’ll get exactly the same, but, but to have that same flavor 00:15:55,200 would be nice but they’re nothing like these, and so that’s the question is what, what is the, is the goal to create a historic feel for our downtown because if we’re going into our, we’re gonna put up a historic district manners. 00:16:10,730 We’re gonna revisit our downtown historic district and I mean, we’re, we use the downtown as a core tourism. destination. And so if we’re going to create the look. Um I mean that’s one thing to consider and maybe it’s, you know, just a few streets of it could be done yet another option. 00:16:29,900 I mean, you can have 6 different kinds, but I’m just saying if, if we’re gonna create, if we’re gonna go for a historic authenticity then then maybe trying to get close to what we really had. Isn’t is an option or uh something to explore at least. I think it’s something to explore. 00:16:50,800 I will tell you that that as important as the aesthetics are, I’m concerned with the lighting quality, so, so I wanna make certain that I can get a fixture that that can do what it can, what I needed to do from a lighting perspective, um, after that, the next thing for the downtown area would be aesthetics. Um So I, I, I’m, I’m open to that. 00:17:10,370 I, I don’t know what they have out there though. Well, I will, I’ll send the pictures and maybe it’s the kind of thing that I, and I don’t know how many you’re talking of 13 ft poles, but maybe it’s something that’s just done in a core area and 00:17:25,230 you know, I, I don’t know. I mean, you have to. Yeah It, it would be my understanding that and then Daniel, correct me if I’m wrong, if it’s in the downtown core area, they would be all those that are approved by Downtown Design Review. 00:17:45,030 Yeah, so it would be one or all. None are all, I should say. Jerry Ingle, um, May I, uh, do you, have you done any kind of, uh, looking into the, the designs that you had the, uh, the ones to pick from, uh, is there a minimum lumens that you guys 00:18:06,370 have to deal with that every one of these lights have to put out so much light at such an angle, uh, that when they’re installed that everything will be covered, uh, that would, you know, dictate what kind you could actually put in there whether it’s an old style or a new style. 00:18:24,500 Yes, we’ve done that, um, we know that we have an option to meet the lumen output that’s currently there. Um, and that’s really how we’re trying to match which ones, um, I can tell you that most Um, most, um, that are out there have a variety of lumen outputs that we can choose from, so not too concerned about that, except 00:18:46,530 that if they don’t have enough, I, I wouldn’t consider it. Uh, these lights are not just for pedestrian use. They do provide some lighting to the street itself and so that becomes very important for us. 00:19:13,830 All right, any other questions, thoughts? Well, thank you, and we look forward to continuing this discussion. Absolutely. Thank you for your time. Thanks. Great, uh, moving on to the section 106221 North Fifth Street property. 00:20:03,900 Uh, Chair Engel and Comm, the city of Bismarck Public Works Department is looking to apply for the North Dakota Department of Commerce, Energy, Conservation Grant for lighting upgrades to the city county building located at 221 North Fifth Street. The lighting upgrades will consist of changing the existing interior compact fluorescent lighting to LED lighting. Um, this would only be for the interior lights and would not affect any other portions of the building beyond the. fixtures themselves. 00:20:26,230 Uh, the application process for the grant requires section 106 clearance um for properties that are older than 50 years old. Um, the original portion of This building at 221 North Fifth Street was built in 1926, requiring that section 106 clearance uh for the project, uh, staff from the State Historical Society of North Dakota were consulted originally, uh, and they suggested that city staff 00:20:50,300 obtained the Bismarck Historic Preservation Commission’s determination and include that, uh, with the other grant materials that would be submitted for the grant application. Uh, city staff were not able to find any recorded cultural survey for this particular building. 00:21:14,230 Um, however, through review of photographs, um, various journals, books, uh, and building permit information for of this building staff found that several renovations, additions, and upgrades have occurred throughout the years to the building, uh, draft cultural review for supporting documentation and draft declaration are attached for your review. The draft declaration. 00:21:41,000 uh would be updated based on the historic Preservation Commission’s determination and comments, um, staff recommends that the historic Preservation Commission reviewed the documentation for the section 106 review, uh, for lighting upgrades for 221 North Fifth Street and provided determination. 00:21:58,270 Um, if you want, I have included some of the information on slides up here, uh, if you want to see it, otherwise, if you have it in your packet, feel free to look at that as well. You’re just talking, excuse me. You’re just talking about these 2 x 4 fixtures throughout the building. Is that, that is, that is correct. And nothing else. Uh, nothing else, uh, based on discussions with staff at Public Works for it. 00:22:23,200 With the, uh, with the style change or just the interior bulbs. I believe it would just be the interior bulbs that they’re changing. Yeah I haven’t gotten. Change it from this to I mean they do have retro thick bulbs that are LED. to change or anything. Mhm. That, that would be a good question. 00:23:00,570 I, I can double check uh with staff from Public Works to see what specifically is occurring with that, um, and I, I As a general question to them, they, they said it was just the fixtures that would be updated, not exactly sure about that process involves. Chad. If you’re just changing the bulbs, you really wouldn’t need our permission. 00:23:21,370 Right, so I would, I would guess, and you don’t need our permission anyways. You can do it. I just tell you 5 other people make that decision, we can do it. Um. But yeah, so I would think that there must be some type of. Fixture change out slash upgrade too, so. 00:23:42,570 But these are not original lights looking at the few photographs that were in here, they’re not original to the design and interior has been changed multiple times already, so, um, Comm Nodlin. I have a history there. Reion for you. on your description of the, The second paragraph. Just because I read a lot about the Eppingers. 00:24:05,270 Um, the original Queen and Ramstead was was. In Mr. Eppinger’s building on Main Street. It was next to the Christian International Bank. So in today it would be in that empty parking lot between the parking ramp and, right? So the one I The one on West Fourth Street that you’re describing here. 00:24:26,500 Those missus Zinger’s building. You want, you want the F in your block a capital B. you Thank you for the history lesson. Comm Nodland, um, I As far as what you’re proposing here, I, I don’t see any, uh, issues with it. 00:24:56,000 I don’t think it’s going to change the, the historic character of the building, what what’s left there. I did find it unique that the, the bump out on the front of the building. From the original part of the building is still there. It’s just encased. That you can see, so I’m also a nerd, but not that much of a nerd. So, I’ll make a motion to approve as presented. 00:25:17,370 OK, 2. Uh, the last thing I would say is the Declaration that we need to come up with. Um, needs to read that we recommend a determination of no adverse effects for this property. So as long as you’re that’s what I thought you meant. 00:25:40,170 Um, and the second, uh, any more discussion on this point? And the and with the correction, yes, uh, as presented by. Comm Nodland. Uh, hearing none, we’ll take off. Mr. Engel, yes, M S Pursely. Yes. Comm Swanson? Yes. Comm Hull. Comm Zenker. And, uh, I’m sorry, Chair Engel. Yes, sorry. I think you already got me. I’m like, did I get everybody? I’m sorry. 00:26:09,730 And she said yes for you. Thank you. All right, uh, moving on to the NRHP nomination for the Patrick. Is a burn house? I’m sorry, I should probably know. Yeah, burn. house. 00:26:31,500 Uh, Chair Engel Commissioners, the historic Preservation Commission has been contacted as a courtesy to review a national register of Historic Places nomination. The nomination is for the Patrick E. Byrne House, uh, 120 West Avenue A. Um, this is located in central Bismarck. The nomination property is currently a contributing element within the cathedral area historic District. The opportunity to comment on the National Register nomination is provided to the historic Preservation Commission as a courtesy. 00:26:58,670 If the historic Preservation Commission wishes to provide comments, those comments may consist of things such as if the author missed any important information, any statements in the nomination that might be confusing or possibly. Inaccurate or if anything needs more justification or anything along those lines. 00:27:22,800 Um, the commission’s comments will be provided to the nomination author as well as the State Historic Preservation Office for consideration of inclusion within the final nomination form. Uh, I do wanna let you know that the nomination is tentatively scheduled for a review before the North Dakota Historic Preservation Review Board on April 25th at 10:00 a.m. 00:27:45,900 at the Heritage Center in case anybody is interested to see what that process looks like. Um, staff does recommend that the historic Preservation Commission reviewed the National Register nomination for the Patrick E. Byrne house at 120 West Avenue A and provide any comments to be conveyed to the North Dakota State Historic Pres Preservation Office and the nomination offer. Ooh Great. Thank you, Lauren. 00:28:10,230 Um, I, I’ve read this nomination, um, and I very slowly since I’m not an architectural person, um, I do have some comments to make, uh, nothing critical, and just having a few questions for the author, um, uh, but I think we can probably compile those amongst ourselves, um, and put in, um, a recommendation if we 00:28:31,500 support it or not, um, does anybody else have anything critical or Otherwise to share about this nomination. I just thought it was an excellently. Ar. Uh Nomination. I was really good. 00:29:01,000 Really interesting, uh, she brought in really interesting elements of the personalities who were involved in the architects and uh I think it’s just she covered it from one end to the other as far as I can see and. Ma, it’s good. I think she had a good opportunity at the historical Society. Get it passed. I agree, and it was a very clean, uh, document as well. 00:29:18,500 Uh, there’s only a few bits of My own edification, I’ll probably talk to Emily about it because I know her. Um, but, uh Comm Nodland, do you have any? No, I guess my question is, uh, what does a statement of support look like? Do we have a standard one that we use or that they would like. 00:29:36,870 I don’t know if we have a, a standard one, but I, I sat on the, uh, the board, and it’s basically just a letter saying that we, we like the nomination. It’s very clear. We agree with the criteria that it’s nominated under, um, and we overall think it’s a good idea. Signed by the commission, so. 00:30:00,170 Any other thoughts? I was to say, we mentioned before where it’s like they could have made a run at uh At a Criterion criterion for uh. But otherwise, yeah, it’s wholeheartedly support under criterion C. Awesome. 00:30:21,030 Then, um, we will work at pulling together a A support letter for that, um, and then add in whatever comments you guys have, uh, for the author, and we’ll try and get that done. Hopefully, we can get that done. This week, maybe, um, so that she has it before she goes in front of the board on the 25th. If that’s possible. Yes, Mr Noland, so I will make a motion that the board. 00:30:46,100 Uh, supports the nomination and We’ll forward a letter of support signed by the chair. have a second, 2nd. All right. 00:31:05,800 Any other discussion? Great, Yes. Comm? Yes. Comm Swanson. Yes. And Chair Engel. Yes. Well done. OK. Um, moving on to the 2023 historic Preservation Fund grant updates. 00:31:31,470 Uh, this just real quick, uh, Terry Engel and Comm staff and Comm Nodland have met to discuss the designs for the Downtown Historic District, streetlight banners, um, the discussion established that the banner designs for this district should highlight the potential themes people and streetscapes identified within the National Register nomination form for this district, um, staff and Comm Nodland are working to set up a meeting with other members of the subcommittee or who were previously on the subcommittee 00:31:50,000 and have already been part of the initial discussions, um, to further, uh, This work on the project. No action by the historic Preservation Commission is required at this time. Great. 00:32:16,000 Um, and then last is the historic Preservation Commission has discussed potential activities to participate in or promote for historic preservation month in May, uh, over its past several meetings, a draft flyer for these potential activities is included for your review, uh, staff will work to promote these activities through a variety of ways, including social media and on the city’s 00:32:37,100 website, um, staff will also work to post history facts from the timeline of Bismarck. history or quotes from local literature, um, just having a tie into one of the activities that was pointed out on the draft Flyer, um, and that will be posted throughout the month of May as a way to also promote 00:32:57,570 historic preservation month. Uh, proclamation will be presented at the April 22nd City Commission meeting, um, for historic preservation Month. Staff recommends reviewing the fly and identifying any changes that should be made um before it needs to go out in May. Right. Are there any corrections? Thank you, Lauren. 00:33:22,000 Any corrections that people can see or things that are glaringly missing. OK Yes, um, the only thing I could give an update on is I know that um. Commissioner’s gonna say, chair, Comm Sakariassen is working on the first one, the local literature exhibits, so that one’s. 00:33:44,870 She’s, they asked her recently and that’s all underway. And usually what we what we did last time was we put a temporary box up on the door that had the Downtown walking maps and this flyer up too, so people downtown would. If they happen but would. Great idea. Yeah, thank you. Um, I would encourage all of the commissioners to join in. 00:34:04,770 In some of these, um, pick some or do all of them. I’m hoping you all make it to the meeting, of course, um, but I’m going to be at the Founder’s Day trivia, um, and check out the window reglazing because I’ve done that, but I’m probably not. 00:34:21,230 Historically accurate on how I’ve done it, so, um, I think they’re really great events, and it would be good to mingle with the The rest of the um community and find out what their preservation likes, dislikes, or if they wanna. drum up any, um, other things to do for these in the coming years. 00:34:42,130 Um And then there’s two, Um, history hot dishes, right, coming out at some point. The podcasts and stuff, uh, so yeah, check those out to you. If you can’t make it to any of the in-person things. Yes. Sure, is it, would it be possible to put the web uh link for our Bismarck timeline on there. 00:35:08,730 the flyer is just to get all the information in. Um, if you see in the bottom left-hand corner, there is actually a link in a QR code. Uh, the QR code isn’t currently active. It will be in May, um, once everything’s finalized after this meeting. Um, if I can get the screen up here again. 00:35:36,000 If you can kind of see a little bit on here, so your QR code or that um link that is provided there, it’ll actually take you to a separate area that has way more information on it than what’s available on the flyer, and it’ll provide additional information on the timeline, um, different places that might be 00:35:55,300 open, so the former governor’s mansion is open when that would be, um, when Camp Hancock is open when the state archives are. So moving beyond just our specific act. activities, it highlights other historic preservation activities, events, um, and activity or. Activities that people can participate in throughout the month. 00:36:21,000 Um, this only shows a map, but there’s other, um, areas on here, so it provides a background of the month and the celebration and why we’re doing it. It has different resources that people can go to and it has additional ways to celebrate. There’s also Uh, the downtown walking tour map, uh, it was digitized. 00:36:41,800 I don’t know if you remember that from a couple meetings ago. That’s on there as a potential link on the cathedral area one has just been finalized, um, staff just finished working on that, so that will also be available on there, um, it’s Putting a little bit more information than what’s currently available on the 00:36:59,730 flyer there. I think that’s great. Yes. No. uh, Lauren, is there a way to um. Include this QR code in a couple of different places, even maybe on the web on your social media site or if the city commission when they read the proclamation, can they point to that QR code because a lot of people don’t 00:37:22,000 use QR codes, but if they know all that information is on there. If there’s, if there’s just a way to highlight that’s the spot to go to. Somehow beyond just this flyer, uh, Comm Nodland chair Commissioners, I think we staff can work through that, um, and we can potentially include that 00:37:40,900 within all our different posts throughout the month as well, in case anybody wants to use that link. That’s great, and I think, um, a, a general kind of email to going out to all of the elementary schools, in particular, because I know May is really like a hotbed of activity as they wrap up their 00:37:56,530 school year, um, and, uh, teachers are usually looking. For stuff like that to explore. So if they had that resource might get them to the younger crowd. Uh, I recommend the earlier the better, so they can plan going into a field trip. 00:38:17,730 I think we’re running out of month, um, for April anyway, so I better get crackalacking. OK. All right. All right. Um, is there any other business that we need to attend to? OK, uh, hearing none, uh, the next regular meeting is scheduled for May 21st at 3:00 p.m. right here in the Tom Baker room.