00:00:11,367	S1:
Welcome to Bismarck Insights with mayor Mike Schmitz, a transparent and engaging conversational dive into meaningful topics impacting local government in Bismarck, North Dakota. Bismarck Insights is dedicated to removing barriers between the city of Bismarck and the citizens we serve every day.

00:00:30,367	S2:
Hello and welcome to Bismarck Insights. I'm Mayor Mike Schmitz, and today we're focusing on building inspections and the division that is run by Brady Bill Koski. I may have butchered that last name. I'm very sorry. Oh, you did terrific, Brady. Thank you for joining me today. And just tell everybody a little bit about yourself, how you came to where you are in building inspections and being the division manager. Um, and what led you to that? Sure.

00:00:59,000	S3:
Yeah. Thank you. Um, so I guess I got my my start in the construction industry very, very young, right out of high school. Um, my, my, I guess my first job in the construction industry was as a concrete laborer. Um, I finished a lot of concrete, did a lot of carpentry work working for that company. Um, we traveled a lot, unfortunately. So I did want something that was a little bit more. More stable as a career field. So I made the tough decision of changing my career path. After several years of working in that job and starting an apprenticeship program as a as a plumber. So I worked in the plumbing industry for, for many years. Um, got my journeyman license and my wife and I moved to to to Bismarck. Um, I got an opportunity with the city to work as the plumbing inspector. Um, after there, inspector had retired, and then several years later, our division grew. up plans, examiner position was was created and I applied for that job and became the first plans examiner for the City of Bismarck. So it's a great opportunity. Um, I kind of thought that was that was going to be where I, I, I was for, for the rest of my career. And, um, a few more years later, the building official, that current building official at that time, um, got an opportunity to work for the county as their director of their new department that they created for planning and zoning. So I worked as the interim building official in the city of Bismarck for for a year before deciding to apply for that position and, and obtain that, you know, more than ten years ago.

00:02:35,667	S2:
And so now you're the building official and you have how many inspectors that you oversee.

00:02:41,968	S3:
Uh, so there's seven inspectors with, with our office, um, each that does various different inspections, but mainly they all have a discipline just dedicated to their background. So our plumbing inspectors have either a journeyman or a master license as a plumber. Electrical. Same. They have a license with the state of North Dakota for that electrical part.

00:03:04,667	S2:
So what is the role of building inspections?

00:03:07,801	S3:
So I mean, just kind of kind of short and sweet. The the role is just to ensure that that buildings are being constructed in a, in a safe manner so that their occupants of those buildings are, are safe. And those that are first responders are also safe when they're responding to incidents in those buildings.

00:03:26,000	S2:
At what point in time should a person make sure they're contacting the inspections department? Projects that should be inspected are, you know, kind of give the kind of a general layout of what that might look like. So people understand that there's a time and a place that that it's appropriate.

00:03:45,000	S3:
So, you know, our our contractors generally know, you know, when to call. They've gone through the process many different times. but homeowners are speaking in general to them when they're doing alterations to a building that's changing the configuration of a of a space that would be, you know, one, one main time to call. And you can reach out to our office to acquire permits, ask questions through the process of permitting. Um, the other things would be on those specialized systems, like your electrical, your plumbing, your heating, those kind of things. Um, you know, homeowners can do their own, their own work in those disciplines if they if they own and live there in that home. Um, but they would just need to reach out to us to acquire those permits before starting the project. And then, you know, at certain times of phases during the project so that we have access to look at, um, for example, on the electrical, our, our staff has access to look at the wiring before it's concealed. And then also once the fixtures are installed, outlets are installed, they can test those outlets to make sure that they're working properly.

00:04:49,601	S2:
So let's give an example of a modification that would require a building permit. Yeah. Versus one that maybe doesn't help to help. You know, like you said, the contractors probably know. But we have a lot of residents who do a lot of home improvements on their own.

00:05:03,300	S3:
Yeah. For sure. No, it's a great question. Um, you know, an example for an on a home improvement project would be if you're replacing the carpet or a tile floor or even putting in new cabinets, countertops, those kind of things, those don't not need a permit. Um, but if you're reconfiguring your, your kitchen or your bathroom, you're removing walls, you're moving, you know, your kitchen from one location to another. There's going to be some modifications there, likely with electrical, with plumbing and even possibly mechanical, uh, if there was certain elements that needed to be adjusted. So those would all be things that need a permit and inspection.

00:05:40,300	S2:
So what about kind of I kind of a real life example myself at the moment. Um, I may have to replace my deck. Okay. Um, won't modify it, but is that something that needs to be inspected? Permit for.

00:05:54,667	S3:
Yeah. So, Dex. Dex, sometimes we always get into a little gray area with them because a lot of people maybe just want to, you know, freshen it up and maybe put new deck boards on. You know, they're going to leave the substructure, the structure that's supporting everything alone. And they just want to, you know, replace maybe some old, you know, deck boards with new, uh, you know, more modern type type boards, um, those kind of things we, we, we wouldn't require a permit for. But if you do change any structural modifications, like the joists and beams, um, if the, the railings are needing to be replaced and it's a deck that's maybe, you know, 6 or 8ft off the ground, we're going to want to make sure that those are supported properly, that the spaces between the spindles are narrow enough that a child's not going to get stuck in there. Um, and that the stairs, you know, maybe those are going to be replaced. Those would have the correct rise and run to them. Okay.

00:06:49,000	S2:
And I'll bring that up, because I've just happened to have a situation where we'll have to see if I have to go through the process or not. But people don't always think about that. And I'm sure that's a situation. It's not like you're making it different. No, but, um, safety becomes the concern and we don't want those, those structures not being held and supported appropriately because the last thing we want is them to collapse and have someone hurt. Correct. Um, so to, to really go through the inspection process. There's, there's underlying rules and laws that we have to follow. And that's really our building codes. And that's the heart of what what drives what you and your team have to manage to. I guess where do those codes come from? How what's the difference between international national and local state? Yeah.

00:07:42,100	S3:
No, a great, great question. Um, so there's a there's a model code industry out there. And I think the leader in that industry is the International Code Council. Um, that's that's really where any modern codes are going to be created. All 50 states currently have adopted some sort of of version, I should say, of the model codes, depending on what year they're on. Um, so that's where it starts. Um, from there once code once once that industry or that Code council creates those codes, each state has the opportunity to adopt those model codes. And each local jurisdiction also has the ability to adopt those codes.

00:08:26,400	S2:
Um, the state adopts the code, but then locally we have some choices to make sometimes too. And how do we go through that? How often do we go through that? Um, in addition to just sometimes fixing things.

00:08:39,000	S3:
Yeah. So so model codes are created on a kind of a three year process. I kind of like to like to say it. It kind of starts and finishes at the same time. You know it. Once one code is is finished being created, the next version is started to be worked on. So every three years the state of North Dakota will take a look at it as well as local. Local governments will take take a look at it. Um, they're created through a process that's generally three stages. I guess is the easiest way to explain it. Where the first stage is, the co-counsel will create committees and also accept amendments. Um, those committees will then review those those amendments. Um, and in the second phase of that process will hold public hearings, public comments. And the individuals that either support or don't support those proposed amendments have opportunities to speak, um, provide comment and testimony. Um, and then third final phase in that three year process would be the voting portion of it, where jurisdictions and eligible voting members would vote on those codes, either in person or online. And then once the code is is completed, the process is completed. The Code Council will publish those codes online. They'll start to provide continuing education to inspectors, to architects and engineers about the changes in those those codes. And um, again, like I said, in the next three years, they'll they'll start that process over really just to allow for, you know, change new technology. Um, maybe various incidents have occurred over time that created maybe a need to add a new code for increased safety.

00:10:28,167	S2:
So once once that's completed and then it goes to the state the state adopts, makes whatever changes they make to that. Then locally, we look at it as well to see if we have any alterations or alterations made a bad word, but need to adopt it slightly differently or variance to it. What? How does that work? And how much different are our Bismarck codes compared to maybe the state or the international code?

00:10:57,801	S3:
Yeah. So locally we try to stay right in line with the state process. So actually next week the state will be going through a review process with what they call their Building Code Advisory Committee. And they'll be reviewing the local or the excuse me, the state amendments. So we've already gotten the international codes published. They're there for us to to review. Now our state is looking at them and wanting to adopt. So those are open public public meetings. Um, they can receive comments and then provide recommendation on, you know, whether they want to see that that particular amendment be passed. Um, the next kind of point along the along that development cycle for the state will be in August when or excuse me, in September, September when there is a voting meeting of eligible voting members throughout the state, like myself and other building officials throughout throughout the state. Um, township board members, if they have building codes that they've adopted. So they'll they'll vote on that. The our local process, I guess I like to try to stay right in line with that. Um, we did have meetings with our local homebuilders association and other stakeholders as to kind of give them an idea of when the state process was going to be, you know, taking place and those those very specific dates of public hearings. So I anticipate we'll be doing some work, more work after next week's meeting, having a better understanding of kind of what amendments are being, uh, moved forward. Um, with a pass or or don't pass. Um, and really reaching out to our local builders to see what is it that we would like to change, or if that we would like to adopt that's specific to our area? You have to remember that the international codes are just that. They they take into account all geographic regions in, in the United States, and we may not. Many of the codes may not apply to to our region. Also, we don't provide the same types of inspections all the time due to, you know, limited numbers of staff or just areas that we don't, you know, we don't cover with our inspection process. So we may want to remove those from the code or make modifications so that it's clear that we're this only applies to this certain type of construction.

00:13:19,767	S2:
And and is like the city of Bismarck building code similar, dissimilar to Burleigh counties where the variances if you can just high level identify some of those for sure.

00:13:34,601	S3:
Um, you know, I think the main differences are going to be with our, like, administrative section of the code, where it's what what permits do we require? Um, there's certain items where we'll go through and probably a little bit more detail because we, we will make amendments locally where I think, um, Burleigh County and other, uh, parts of the state will just adopt the state code by reference. And it's the state building code process that determines those amendments. They won't go through like a local amendment process themselves. The amendments that are generally made at the state level are very high level. Um, we understand that. We want to, you know, they want to let the local jurisdictions have their own control over things. So that's where you'll see the most difference between those two entities. Um, but like another community, like Mandan, for example, we, they do allow or do make some changes to, to their ordinance when it comes to building codes. So you might see Things like, for example, the door closers on a on a garage door, the door between a house and a, and your attached garage. Um, whether the self closers are required to be on it or not. Um, egress window heights. So if you're standing in your basement, the threshold of that window, at what height is it? Um, you know, certain things like that might be a little different. Um, but, yeah, nothing. Nothing major. I mean, nothing that I think that any contractor would have a real issue with. Um, but we'd like to be the same. I mean, quite honestly, I mean, I think that's the goal.

00:15:10,467	S2:
Especially when you're dealing with, you know, crossing the line that's in a point in a map. And you know what? You want to be as similar as possible, obviously. So so people know. So how is technology impacted? Building inspections.

00:15:27,000	S3:
Gosh I mean there's a lot there. Right. Um, I mean technology for us just from our our inspectors and how they do their jobs has changed. I mean, everyone, every one of our inspectors has a has an iPhone and iPad and they complete everything digitally. But also it's changed for the building industry as well. I mean, things continually evolve and continue to grow from a technology standpoint. New products come out almost almost every day. And another really good reason why we update codes every three years is so that those those those products, materials, technologies that aren't addressed in the codes can be addressed and we can allow them to be used in our community.

00:16:08,601	S2:
Okay. And and obviously every three years may not be freakin enough for some code changes. And so do we occasionally have to modify our code or our ordinance of managing the code?

00:16:20,767	S3:
Yep. So we can do that. That is an option. But there's also some language in the code that that we use that's just for alternate design materials so the code doesn't come right out and say everything that's new is is bad, and you can't do it because you don't address it. It says there's other ways that you can do these things. As long as you have evidence that this has been tested, it's a listed appliance or a listed material. It's gone through a testing agency and it's approved by other industry professionals that it's equivalent to another type of of product or material and can be used in that application. So, um, the Code Council and other other model code standard organizations do have those listing agencies affiliated with them as well, that provide that kind of research data for us to make a decision on whether we're going to accept something new that maybe isn't specifically referenced in a code. So I'm sure.

00:17:19,167	S2:
And, and but we also may find a situation where we had a certain expectation of foundations or whatever and and realize how we we need to modify that. That would be something else that might happen, not just. It may not even be addressed during the the annual or by the third year, annual or whatever you want to call it, renewal. Do we do we fix code when it comes to that? If we if we find a need to do that, that's appropriate. And our, our stakeholders think it's right as well.

00:17:51,400	S3:
Yeah, absolutely. That's that's definitely an option. You know, any time to take a look at those things that that may change in between that, you know, more formal process of code, code adoption, code amendment. Um, you know, any there's a process for that, taking that through the proper channels and getting the City Commission's approval to do those things is definitely an option.

00:18:12,467	S2:
So just so people know that, you know, they identify something, they can have a conversation and, and look at what needs to be done. So part of inspections is of course the permits and licensing. Yeah. Um, what what are the licensing In situations that your department handles, like your licensing or providing an ability for certain contractors to do certain work, there are some that are required. And then of course, what are the permitting processes like and what's the time frame to get those issued.

00:18:41,701	S3:
So um, well, like I mentioned earlier, the state plumbing boards, the electric board, they have licenses that are universal throughout the state, uh, for for contractors in any, any community, so they can work throughout the state and anywhere get permits, that sort of thing. Um, the one piece that the state doesn't have that we've started, along with a few other communities like Fargo, Grand Forks and Minot, is mechanical licensing. So we do license our mechanical contractors. Um, they're they hold a license with us, and they renew that annually. Um, I think the good thing about licensing is just it's really giving the the consumer and and the citizens assurance that there's there's a certain level of, of knowledge that those individuals have. There's an expectation that with that knowledge there, there comes a responsibility to do those things correctly. And, you know, certainly safety, knowing that that they've gone through the proper channels to become licensed, that and they're getting permits through our office to to make sure that things are installed safely.

00:19:49,067	S2:
So just to help people understand mechanical not everybody are still mechanical. So let's define that for them. What what is a mechanical contractor. What do they do.

00:19:57,901	S3:
Yeah. So mechanical contractor would be responsible for, you know, installing a furnace, modifying any ductwork, installing gas piping in your home. Um, you know, really the, the, the heating and cooling of your, you know, of your, of your home or commercial building would be under their scope of work.

00:20:17,067	S2:
I just want people to understand that because I don't think everybody does. When you say mechanical or HVAC. Yeah. Um, how about on the permitting side? What? What's the lead time? Someone should be applying for permits. Um, what permits are we issuing? Uh, through your department, anyway?

00:20:32,767	S3:
So we have we have many different, different types of permits and different review times for those permits. So in general, like a standard homeowner's permitting for, you know, a shed or a deck or, um, a garage or something like that, it's fairly, fairly quick. Most of the time it's within the same week that they apply for it. And generally if it's someone that's applying for the first time, maybe even the only time that they've ever worked with us, there's probably a lot of, you know, back and forth, just just trying to make sure that we understand correctly what they want to do, make sure that they're, you know, putting that that structure in the right place. They're not on an easement, you know, that kind of thing. So, um, our front office staff can can work through most of that with people, and we may end up getting our residential plans examiner involved if it is a more complicated project, but I would say, generally speaking, that that 5 to 7 days would be the maximum that we would we would time we would take, and some are even just issued right over the counter. If it's a simple enough project where you can get that same day. Um, more complex projects or brand new construction, like a new home or a new commercial building. Those are those vary in time frame, just based on the complexity, I guess. Sure. Um, many of our home builders are very proficient in the process, and they can get their permits very quickly. Um, again, probably within that same week, they apply time frame because they know exactly what they need to submit. And, you know, the time frames, um, fall into place for them because they have everything that they need with that application. Um, commercial projects take a little longer because we do have a site plan review process and some other departments that are involved in that process. It's not just building inspections division. Um, so those can take as far as the plan. Review can take several weeks to get through the building plan, but the other process was site plan can also take the same amount of time.

00:22:29,901	S2:
Okay, you already talked about the specialization of your planner or your inspectors throughout the department, but just roughly how many inspections are done in a year? And how has that changed over the last, say, ten years?

00:22:46,767	S3:
Yeah, that's a great question. I, I looked into that a little bit, just um, when we were talking about it and I know looking back, probably over, over a ten year time frame was a lot of the data that I could find. Um, we're averaging around 4 to 5000 permits a year and anywhere from 9 to 15,000 inspections. Um, obviously the market, you know, changes each year, so those things can fluctuate. Uh, outside of that ten year time frame. We did have the large oil boom out in the western part of the state. That did create a lot of activity here as well, and we've now seen it kind of normalized over the last 5 to 10 years. So I think that that average is probably around that that mark of, of 4 to 5000 permits and 9 to 15,000 pretty regularly.

00:23:43,567	S2:
And what is a typical inspection look like for someone who's never been through it? Yeah. What what what can they expect? I'm probably more, you know, obviously commercial, that's one thing. But for for most of our people here, it's probably what's a residential inspection if you're having something done, you know, electrical or plumbing or. Yeah. Or a sort of a major remodel. Yeah. What's going to happen? How often are somebody going to show up out there?

00:24:08,400	S3:
Yeah. So most of the time what we're going to have like a, like a homeowner get a permit from us on would be like a basement finish permit where you're going to also have, you know, the plumbing, electrical and mechanical and all of that looked at during a basement finish permit. Many homeowners want to do that work themselves or white subcontract that out to their contractor so they may not always be at the job site or at their home during those hours unless unless they've completed that work themselves. But we do a rough inspection on anything that we're doing. So prior to sheet rocking, prior to insulating, prior to basically concealing any of the work that we want to inspect, we would come in and take a look at it, and then we would want to come back once it has been sheetrock, once it's been insulated and those fixtures are now installed, whether it's plumbing, electrical or mechanical. And we'll take a look around. If it's electrical inspector doing that work, he's going to plug into some outlets. Plumbers may run the water just to, you know, check for any kind of leaks, make sure everything's working properly. Um, but really, it's on a, on a basement finish or a homeowner project. There isn't too many inspections. Maybe two. 1 or 2 inspections. Same for, like, a deck or a shed. We'll cite the location for a siding inspection. We'll come out and take a look at where you're planning to place it, and then come back again to take a look at the framing of it before anything is concealed. And then a final inspection, just once everything's finished and complete. Sure.

00:25:35,968	S2:
So we talked about inspections. Now let's talk about how we're engaging in the community, specifically you and the director for community development, which is your boss, Ben Ehreth. Um, who are we meeting with? How are we engaging with those people that you're probably having the most day to day contact with who are affecting our construction in the community?

00:25:55,167	S3:
So, you know, we since I've been with this, with the city, which is, you know, it's hard to believe. But about 18 years now, um, we we've always had meetings or informational meetings that we provided to, to contractors. Um, but I think maybe once or twice a year. But I think what we're trying to do is, is, is engage more with the development community in more of a conversation and more of a, um, you know, a way that we can generate some new ideas and some ways to to basically deal with the challenges that we have in the construction industry. So, um, we're creating basically we created a communications plan. We're hosting meetings, um, at our public works department. They've got a large meeting room that's, that's really been useful and providing some presentations to them. Um, information about more recently about the code adoption. But I think moving forward, looking at educational opportunities as well, trying to find those gaps where maybe we are finding issues with inspections or with our processes and and having opportunities to bring in people to talk to them about how to improve a process or how to educate them about how to do things a certain way that maybe they're not aware of. So it's been really well received, I believe. Um, but I think there's also opportunities to grow that as well. Because many people get get information in different ways these days. Um, I'm kind of old fashioned. I like that one on one conversation or to be in a meeting room, but other people like things to be accessible to them. You know, themselves online and through websites and kind of binding their information for themselves and maybe just reaching out if they have a specific question about something after they've already done their own research. So.

00:27:45,767	S2:
So do we have a regular cadence right now, or those meetings with the homebuilders or the development community are happening?

00:27:53,267	S3:
Um, we don't have like a like a set time frame of how often we do it. I think we do have other meetings that we participate in, um, that are quarterly meetings, but I think ours are more generated based on, on need. Um, I think like my goal would be to just continue to continue to provide more, continue to reach out to, you know, our development community and ask, is there another topic that we can try to address? But, um, I'd certainly like to provide them, you know, quarterly as well, different from another type of type of meeting that I think we're already having with some of our other stakeholders that are more broad, overarching meetings. These would be more specific, general topics that, like I say, more educational or more building, building relationships, if you will, trying to cooperate.

00:28:47,167	S2:
So when you when we're having these meetings right now, I'm pretty well aware that I know in the in the residential development community, the home builders and those and those builders around that and probably developers who are probably members of that that's happening. What about more commercial like the commercial contractors? Is there any kind of opportunity that we have where we're engaging with them on a regular basis. There are fewer of them. Yeah. Um, and they're probably more. They may run into more unique things than a home builder.

00:29:17,267	S3:
Yeah. No, I mean, this is a terrific, terrific topic to talk about because I know it's something that I have had kind of sidebar conversations with a few of our commercial contractors that we work with regularly, and I guess I'd like to have more meetings like that. You know, utilize a venue like our, our public works department to bring people in. And those meetings may only be 10 or 15 people, because we may not have as many that are in that construction industry or the commercial side, but certainly want to reach out to them and find out what is it that we can help with to try to make the permitting process go smoother? The inspection process goes smoother. Maybe there's things that are misunderstood or things that they want to have. Have us take a look at to to change to make the process go a little smoother.

00:30:06,467	S2:
So I'm going to encourage them to call you. Yeah for sure. Yeah that'd be great. So what are the resources that you can provide to the the building and industry from from your department?

00:30:18,868	S3:
Um, you know, like I said, there's a ton of information. I mean, infinite amount of information out there on on the internet. I know the international co-counsel does a terrific job of providing information out there, um, to help people find the answers that they're looking for. Um, I guess I would encourage people to, to research, you know, their website, the, the references that they, that they sell and produce to, to work with us. You know, so that we're kind of talking the same, same language, if you will. Um, but certainly reaching out to our building inspectors, our, you know, plan review staff and even myself if they have questions. Um, hopefully we're available to them. But if you can't get us on the on the phone right away, I know there's a lot of a lot of activity this time of year. Yeah, certainly by email or emails or all on, on the website as, as well.

00:31:10,968	S2:
So what challenges do you feel face the building inspections to division or opportunities? Yeah, they're probably one in the same sometimes.

00:31:19,968	S3:
Um, you know, I mean, challenges for for building inspections. Inspections specifically. Um, you know, I guess I, I don't know, I don't know if I have anything just specifically for that, but for the building industry itself. I mean, I think we've we've heard there's challenges with having skilled individuals wanting to get involved in the skilled trades. Um, obviously there's there's construction costs are increasing due to materials and labor costs and that sort of thing. Um, so, I mean, those are the big challenges in the industry. Sure not. You know, we're we're aware of those challenges and certainly open for conversations with with our stakeholders and contractors and developers to, to try to find solutions to to that. But yeah, I don't know that that. That there's a specific building inspections, you know, issue or concern. But I mean more just the industry itself as far as like solutions, technologies, things like that that are, that are coming available, that's that's the biggest excitement for, for me is that we always seem to focus on things that that are the problem. And if we look back to how things were done years ago, to how they're done today, um, gosh, we've solved a lot of things through technology, through new products and materials being utilized that I'm hoping that that will just continue to continue to grow, uh, continue to be available for people to, to use a solution. So.

00:32:47,167	S2:
Okay. Perfect. Well, Brady, thank you for joining me today on Bismarck Insights. It's been delightful. And hopefully we gave some information to our residents and citizens.

00:32:54,901	S3:
Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity.

00:33:08,267	S1:
Thank you for watching Bismarck Insights with mayor Mike Schmitz. If you have specific topics or questions you like addressed in future episodes. Email Mayor Schmitz at Bismarck gov.

00:33:21,968	S1:
Or call the City of Bismarck at (701) 355-1300.

00:33:26,367	S1:
To learn more about the City of Bismarck, visit Bismarck and Gov. Or follow us on a variety of social media channels by searching Bismarck and Gov. Bismarck Insights is a collaboration between Dakota media access and the City of Bismarck. You may find Bismarck Insights episodes on government access channels two and 602, as well as on Roku, Apple TV, and fire TV devices on radio access 102.5 FM and on demand at Fretboard.